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Why I'm ok with Mass Effect 3's ending


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#201
vandoug

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Like the OP, I enjoyed the ending as well. If you agree that the main course of ME trilogy is about how Shepard finds out the Reaper threat, strives along the way, and finally ends the 50000 year civilization extinction cycle, then you probably agree that the endings in ME3 are not so bad. 

My understandings is that BW tries to employ the war assets rating mechanism to reflect the decisions and choices players made along the course, and then in turn, contribute to the ultimate endings.

I've noticed the typical  complains about the endings include the following points:

1. The endings negate players efforts. Decisions and choices made by players do not mater in the end.

This probably is true if you are expecting all your efforts lead to a fairy tale ending, and you are only satisfied by a "happy ending". A side note, the choices I'm talking about here refer to those before the final mission. The final three choices provided in the end are BW's version of possible solutions to the crisis. Your choices and efforts affect weather the 3 colored endings are executed  well or badly via the war asset rating mechanism.

2. The 3 endings are basically the same just in different colors. The mass relays are destroyed no matter which ending you choose.

Visually, it's true that the 3 ending sequences are just color-coded same one.  But conceptually and theoretically, they're completely distinct from each others. And It's supposed to give players a hard time to choose from. 

Many people think the mass relay destruction will destroy the host star system as shown in Arrival. But I've heard people talking about "controlled destruction", which is not that devastated. I think destroying a mass relay with an asteroid can be quite different from destruction caused by energy charge. The sequence showing London survived the shockwave implys it. I think the destruction is a reasonable and acceptable price to pay for such an epic feat - ending the 50000 year civilization extinction cycle.  Such an epic feat demands such a great price. I can imagine younger civilizations away from mass relays may have better chances than the older ones to preserve. Giving some time (less than 50000 years), civilizations across the galaxy will reconnect themselves by any means for sure.

3.  No closures whatsoever.

I think BW tries to explain the logic behind the plot via the Catalyst's mouth, and constrain the possible solutions so they can execute the endings. It may not be the best idea, but the endings do tell/imply how the crisis is ended, whether humanity is preserved, and what Shepard's final fate is.  It is the most important closure in this regard. it may be better to just add a little bit more content regarding teammates'  fate without losing focus. 

4.  Plot holes. The logic and motivation behind the Reapers is not sound enough.

If you're talking about the foundation logic behind the plot, then it's not just about the ending but the whole series. I agree some plots seem to be a bit off, which BW should execute more clearly. 

To me, the current ending implemented by BW is not a perfect but an enjoyable one.

One improvement to the ending I can think of is to add a conditioned Peace/Coexistence option, and color-code it in white. This option should be raised by Shepard rather than by the Catalyst. Doing so allows Shepard to challenge the godchild's mindset, and prove his theory about chaos is unsound as creators and "createes" do not necessarily have inherent  fundamental contradictions. Peace between quarian and geth is a good example.  This option perfectly fits Shepard's character - a warrior against fate. And of course, it has to have something to do with the Crucible since it's the critical tool to end the cycle. That's where the condition part can fit in.

I don't enjoy the plot holes. I enjoyed the visual effects, the views, the music, the voice acting, the gameplay and the ride of emotions. 

My favorite moment in the ending is when I watched my Shepard drawing a breath under the rubble in the final sequence. I said to myself: Come on, Shepard! You deserve to join in the celebration, the reunion, the huging, the crying and the laughing...

Modifié par vandoug, 27 mars 2012 - 03:03 .


#202
Pee Jae

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James9749 wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

OP expressed his opinion publically. We are likewise expressing our opinions publically. Agreeing and disagreeing is pretty much the point. I see no hate here.


Also, great move with stealing my post. Glad you had something to steal from someone.


That's called copy and paste. Also known as quoting.

#203
Geneaux486

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James9749 wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

OP expressed his opinion publically. We are likewise expressing our opinions publically. Agreeing and disagreeing is pretty much the point. I see no hate here.


Also, great move with stealing my post. Glad you had something to steal from someone.


There's no need to get worked up.  t_skwerl was making the point that there was no hate in our discussion, and that our discussion was on topic.  You had neither the authority nor a reason to tell us to stop.  Why don't we just get back to the discussion at hand.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 27 mars 2012 - 02:48 .


#204
Cheviot

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SpideyKnight wrote...

Cheviot wrote...

At it's heart, the ending is very, very definite on what happens: Shepard succeeds at defeating the Reapers, but at the cost of his own life.  The series has a clear conclusion in that respect. 

As I've hope I've shown, the evidence is there to explore the events around the ending too. 


That didn't happen in my game.  My Shepard is alive.  Well according to this file that's called "Shep-alive."  Clear conclusions, eh?


Yep.  In most cases Shepard gives his life to save the galaxy.  In one case, there's a hint that Shepard survives the ordeal.  Whichever of the two you get, the conclusion is clear.  

#205
James9749

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You know what, OP, I have, personally, no problem with your opinion. I am surprised that someone liked the ending, but to each his own.
When I got my first ending, you know what I thought? I thought I had gotten one of the middle-ground endings. I thought that if I had done any worse, the Reapers would have processed everyone into new Reapers, and that would be the ultimate fate. I thought that there might be a better ending where the Relay's weren't destroyed, but guess how surprised I was to find that no matter what, the Reapers are defeated, and the Mass Relays are destroyed. There was no doomsday ending like in ME2 where you could DIE on the suicide mission and the Reapers could ultimatly win. There was no middle-ground ending where a few of your squad mates died, and you have to look at their coffins. There was no good ending where you got out alive with everyone. We, all of us, got something in the middle, regardless of our choices in the previous games, and who we saved. Bioware nailed the bittersweet ending, but to only give us the bittersweet ending (and one snippet of the breathing scene) is not the sixteen different endings we were promised, based on the choices we made.

I know that no one will probably see this, but I might as well give it a shot anyway.

Modifié par James9749, 27 mars 2012 - 02:53 .


#206
K1llm1n1on

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SpideyKnight wrote...

K1llm1n1on wrote...

tjc2 wrote...

K1llm1n1on wrote...

demin8891 wrote...

Summary for those who don't want to read this massive wall of text: Artistic integrity.

I'm glad you liked it, OP. I really am. I'm just incapable of accepting mediocrity and plot holes the size of the Collector Base.


What specifically are your referring to when you say mediocrity? What plot holes do you see?


Look just because you post a "Wall of Text" doesn't mean people are going to take their time to rewrite the millions of posts showing the problems with the endings. Go through this board and each of the holes will be explained to you in hundreds of ways:mellow:

Listen, if people want to take issue with my wall of text they could be real about it and explain what they mean, not just take pot shots because they disagree with me but don't have the patience or clarity of thought to back it up.

If you don't care enough about your viewpoint to defend it, why say anything at all?


They may not defend their viewpoint, but I shall defend mine.  I've typed this out a million times though so, first watch Angry Joe do it for me:

 

Then read:

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/ 


Questions?

These two are the best summations of why people are upset that I've seen so far- they're reasoned and well- explained. Thanks for the links.

They still are subjective, and boil down to interpretation or taste.

#207
K1llm1n1on

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James9749 wrote...

You know what, OP, I have, personally, no problem with your opinion. I am surprised that someone liked the ending, but to each his own.
When I got my first ending, you know what I thought? I thought I had gotten one of the middle-ground endings. I thought that if I had done any worse, the Reapers would have processed everyone into new Reapers, and that would be the ultimate fate. I thought that there might be a better ending where the Relay's weren't destroyed, but guess how surprised I was to find that no matter what, the Reapers are defeated, and the Mass Relays are destroyed. There was no doomsday ending like in ME2 where you could DIE on the suicide mission and the Reapers could ultimatly win. There was no middle-ground ending where a few of your squad mates died, and you have to look at their coffins. There was no good ending where you got out alive with everyone. We, all of us, got something in the middle, regardless of our choices in the previous games, and who we saved. Bioware nailed the bittersweet ending, but to only give us the bittersweet ending (and one snippet of the breathing scene) is not the sixteen different endings we were promised, based on the choices we made.

I know that no one will probably see this, but I might as well give it a shot anyway.

I see your point, but I can also see that there had to be a more restricted range of possibilities for the final game if they ever intended on continuing the series. That said, it's hard to accept that all 3 ending are pretty much identical except for the color of the explosion and some minor stuff.

Maybe I'm OK with it because I played as a paragon. I know that if I had played renegade I would have been upset that there was no total apocalypse ending.

I suppose I'm looking at the ending as a thing in itself, not in context of choice, as I felt like the renegade/paragon choices towards the end of the game were more about how Shepard was reacting to things, how he was taking things, than about actually making choices. But some people don't like that idea to begin with, so...

#208
James9749

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That's the thing though! Even if I was a Paragon in ME2, I could still screw up and die! That's the beauty of the game, and is half the point! If you were Renegade, you could still win and survive the Suicide mission with everyone, but everyone would fear you instead of thinking you a friend!

#209
James9749

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And while I have your attention, I would like you to watch this video.

This is all the different endings, and this is the reason I had a problem with it. I wanted to see an ending where the Reapers WON. Where they lost but you die( have that one). One where the Reapers loss and relays are intact, but you still die, and then the ultimate goody-two shoe ending of you defeating the Reapers, saving the relays, and surviving.

#210
James9749

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Everything should be their, and THAT is what Bioware promised us, and that is what fans are speculating they will do with the DLC release in April.

Edit: at least they think they will release in April. We might just get some news in April.

Modifié par James9749, 27 mars 2012 - 03:05 .


#211
aliengmr1

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Why would BW create only one ending that a majority doesn't like? You like your mystery, great, I have no problem with that. But why the one ending? Why not 2? or 3? Why not make as many people happy as possible? Ohh right, that would be deep. Better just to upset people than make them happy. Who wanted to be happy at the end of ME3.

I see the ending as just plain stupid. I did NOT want to know the Reapers motives. Reusing Sovereign's dialog would have been enough. That was axed in favor of space-god-kid. Now instead of a menacing unknowable force, the Reapers are universal landscape technicians. Then I'm given a choice between shooting a tube, grabbing something that vapes me, and jumping into light, which vapes me. Stupid. All the plot-holes were discussed so I won't go there.

Did I understand the meaning behind the endings? Yep. still stupid. Reapers are dead, great. But all the characters I actually cared about are dead or dying. Unless I make the decision to do the Reapers job for them and alter the DNA of every living thing in the galaxy, thus making Shep become what I hated most in the galaxy...a Reaper. From the moment My Shep boarded the Normandy as a spectre I embraced the diversity. I got on Pressly's case about it and disliked Ashley from the start. Yet I threw out all that for a green ending that has no basis in science at all. And the grand payoff after 3 games? getting vaped and a galactic dark age... YAY. Did Shep get a good-bye from Tali? Nope. Did anyone even acknowledge Shep's absence? Nope. I finished ME3 and was asked to BUY DLC. Yay payoff.

See why I'm pissed? Shep got nothing for his trouble, except a dialog from 2 people I couldn't care less about. There are people who like this ending and those who don't. No convincing either side really.

Modifié par aliengmr1, 27 mars 2012 - 03:08 .


#212
Pee Jae

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All I want is this; Shep lives, Reapers die, relays do not explode, reunion with squadmates, galaxy's various races win the war. This is not a happy ending. The sacrifices made to get here are too numerous to mention. It's not all fluffy bunnies and sunshine. The losses from the Citadel itself alone are just mind-boggling.

I want to win the game and feel some sense of victory. As it stands now, I don't.

#213
James9749

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Where did everyone go? A post every minute, and now only two posts in over five?

#214
Krushiev01

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OP...

You definitely have the right, and daresay, the priviledge to interpret the ending as you see fit.  I am happy for you, I truly am.

With that said, I couldn't get past page 3, so I don't know if you changed your mind or not.

This is going to be an EPIC wall of text... TL;DR... This is my stream of conciousness rant... F***ing deal with it, everyone.  "Indoc theory", "Artisitic Integrity folk", "Retake ME 3 people", "Minimalist Hipster crowd", "ME 3 Virgins", and Happy cat...

IDGAF who you are.

I. DID. NOT. PAY. FOR. A .HEADCANNON. ENDING.

T.V. shows like "Sopranos", "Lost" (sucks balls), "BSG" (new), and "Dark Shadows" (circa late 80's, early 90's), and movies such as "Matrix", and "Limitless" (good flick, btw), are but a few examples of "artistic integrity" and I can respect that.  Why?

Because those are forms of media that are telling the masses a story.  There was a beginning, a middle and an end - even if  "ambiguous" or "thought provoking".  When a story is being told, it is a thing of myth and legend, so our own political, social, and moral thoughts are left to fill in the blanks.

Let me repeat that... "When a story is being told, it is a thing of myth and legend, so our own
political, social, and moral thoughts are left to fill in the blanks."

In the Mass Effect series, yes, a story is being told; but we (as gamers) are given the choice on the path we take.  Renegade, Paragon....  Calling out the Hanar preacher in ME 1 as a "big stupid jellyfish"... These are choices that we made in Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3.

But in the end, it all meas nothing.  Not a g0dD4mn3d thing... I would normally NEVER agree with Hitler, but this time... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b33tJx8iy0A .

From day one... DAY ONE... We were given the opportunity to choose the path we wished to take to defeat Saren and his Geth army...  We then found out that he (Saren) worked (or submitted to) the force called the "Reapers".  We discovered (on Virmire) that they were "harvesting us" for their own reasons (Oh SNAP... **** just got serious there, amirite?!).  Defeat Saren and his jabroni minions on our terms... Sacrifice or save the Counsel... Anderson or Udina...  Plus a few good points before all of that - Rachni queen on Noveria, saving the colonists and then some on Feros, keeping Wrex alive on Virmire, even the bloody "collect the Asari matriarch writings", and treating Conrad Verner as a human...

Some of which played a part in Mass Effect 2, but had a hand in ME 3...

Well, not really, due mostly in part becasue of the end of ME 3.

Saving Wrex...  What's the point?
Sacrifice, or save the counsel... What's the point?
Anderson or Udina... What's the point?
Rachni queen... What's the point?
Feros... What's the point?
Collection quests... What's the point?
Conrad F*****G Verner...  What's the point?

War Assets?  That's it?  Are you kidding me?  What happened to all of this, and why should I have to sit here and justify / make up / write my own frigging  ending?

I made choices (as did EVERYONE HERE reading my rant)... Fact is, instead of BW / EA writing a basic and intelligible ending , or even a basic text script explaining WTF happened after the galaxy blew up, they gave us some "Mamby pamby" artsy-fartsy make your own conclusion ending...

How did my, or YOUR choices matter over the run of the series?  They didn't.

Instead, they left it vague...  For a future DLC, just to make Sh*theads like you, me and everyone else to buy, and "unlock" that secret ending, or even maybe another "possibility" with the second, or third, or fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh DLC...  A DIFFERENT ENDING EVERY TIME!

I would have bought all of them...  If only they had given me more than a G*dd*mned choice of "which colour do you want the M.E. world to end; make your own ending" cop out.

I thought I had gotten over this rage.... I really did.  Right up until my buddy told me he finished ME 3 and was confused about the ending... Now he's raging too.

I now seriously feel like I've been put over a barrel and "taken", without so much as a f*ck*ing reach-around...

Almost a thousand hours of game time in 5 years, epic goodness for most of that, every single DLC bought and paid for, and I get a choice of three colors as my end for ME3...

Thanks Bioware, I appreciate it.

Modifié par Krushiev01, 27 mars 2012 - 03:55 .


#215
Reth Shepherd

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Out of curiosity, what do you think of Marauder Shields or this proposal, OP? Not trying to start anything, I'm genuinely curious what you think of some of the fan-created alternative endings. Do you consider them rubbish, or are they something you'd want to play?

#216
James9749

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Krushiev01 wrote...

OP...

You definitely have the right, and daresay, the priviledge to interpret the ending as you see fit.  I am happy for you, I truly am.

With that said, I couldn't get past page 3, so I don't know if you changed your mind or not.

This is going to be an EPIC wall of text... TL;DR... This is my stream of conciousness rant... F***ing deal with it, everyone.  "Indoc theory", "Artisitic Integrity folk", "Retake ME 3 people", "Minimalist Hipster crowd", "ME 3 Virgins", and Happy cat...

IDGAF who you are.

I. DID. NOT. PAY. FOR. A .HEADCANNON. ENDING.

T.V. shows like "Sopranos", "Lost" (sucks balls), "BSG" (new), and "Dark Shadows" (circa late 80's, early 90's), and movies such as "Matrix", and "Limitless" (good flick, btw), are but a few examples of "artistic integrity" and I can respect that.  Why?

Because those are forms of media that are telling the masses a story.  There was a beginning, a middle and an end - even if  "ambiguous" or "thought provoking".  When a story is being told, it is a thing of myth and legend, so our own political, social, and moral thoughts are left to fill in the blanks.

Let me repeat that... "When a story is being told, it is a thing of myth and legend, so our own
political, social, and moral thoughts are left to fill in the blanks."

In the Mass Effect series, yes, a story is being told; but we (as gamers) are given the choice on the path we take.  Renegade, Paragon....  Calling out the Hanar preacher in ME 1 as a "big stupid jellyfish"... These are choices that we made in Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3.

But in the end, it all meas nothing.  Not a g0dD4mn3d thing... I would normally NEVER agree with Hitler, but this time... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b33tJx8iy0A .

From day one... DAY ONE... We were given the opportunity to choose the path we wished to take to defeat Saren and his Geth army...  We then found out that he (Saren) worked (or submitted to) the force called the "Reapers".  We discovered (on Virmire) that they were "harvesting us" for their own reasons (Oh SNAP... **** just got serious there, amirite?!).  Defeat Saren and his jabroni minions on our terms... Sacrifice or save the Counsel... Anderson or Udina...  Plus a few good points before all of that - Rachni queen on Noveria, saving the colonists and then some on Feros, keeping Wrex alive on Virmire, even the bloody "collect the Asari matriarch writings", and treating Conrad Verner as a human...

Some of which played a part in Mass Effect 2, but had a hand in ME 3...

Well, not really, due mostly in part becasue of the end of ME 3.

Saving Wrex...  What's the point?
Sacrifice, or save the counsel... What's the point?
Anderson or Udina... What's the point?
Rachni queen... What's the point?
Feros... What's the point?
Collection quests... What's the point?
Conrad F*****G Verner...  What's the point?

War Assets?  That's it?  Are you kidding me?  What happened to all of this, and why should I have to sit here and justify / make up / write my own frigging  ending?

I made choices (as did EVERYONE HERE reading my rant)... Fact is, instead of BW / EA writing a basic and intelligible ending , or even a basic text script explaining WTF happened after the galaxy blew up, they gave us some "Mamby pamby" artsy-fartsy make your own conclusion ending...

How did my, or YOUR choices matter over the run of the series?  They didn't.

Instead, they left it vague...  For a future DLC, just to make Sh*theads like you, me and everyone else to buy, and "unlock" that secret ending, or even maybe another "possibility" with the second, or third, or fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh DLC...  A DIFFERENT ENDING EVERY TIME!

I would have bought all of them...  If only they had given me more than a G*dd*mned choice of "which colour do you want the M.E. world to end; make your own ending" cop out.

I thought I had gotten over this rage.... I really did.  Right up until my buddy told me he finished ME 3 and was confused about the ending... Now he's raging too.

I now seriously feel like I've been put over a barrel and "taken", without so much as a f*ck*ing reach-around...

Almost a thousand hours of game time in 5 years, epic goodness for most of that, every single DLC bought and paid for, and I get a choice of three colors as my end for ME3...

Thanks Bioware, I appreciate it.





Bravo, bravo!! I couldn't have said it better myself!

#217
fafnir magnus

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stop posting from your mobile, I don't need to follow the random breaks in your sentence structure.

#218
The Night Mammoth

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[quote]Geneaux486 wrote...

[quote]The Star-child himself is a plot-hole, what was the point of sovereign if the star-child was the citadel all along?[/quote]

He's not the Citadel. You even ask him if he's the Citadel and he says "no", he just "lives there". The keepers probably interpreted his signal the same as Reaper signals. [/quote]

What? He says it's his home, and that's it's part of him. If it's part of him, he should have been able to control it. 

Maybe he couldn't, the point being that we don't know that, it isn't explained. 

[quote]

[quote]Everyone on the citadel is dead, so they are gone. The entire fleet you brought to earth is stranded, and will eventually die due to lack of resources, if they didn't die in the initial fallout of the Relays blowing up.[/quote]

There is not fallout from the Relays in every ending. Furthermore, we don't know who all evacuated the Citadel when the Reapers were coming, but yes, anyone who was still on it was more than likely dead.[/quote]

There's fallout in every ending, you observe it from outside the galaxy. 


[quote]
[quote]The galaxy is thrown into a dark-age[/quote]

Possible, but not guaranteed. Especially in the endings where the Reapers survive, and would more than likely start rebuilding Mass Relays to get themselves home.[/quote]

Speculation. We don't know where the Reapers will go or what they will do. What we know is that the Relays are destroyed, that it takes decades to reach other systems even when fuel is available, and that places like Omega are not self sufficent. 


[quote]
[quote]Where did the Normandy land?[/quote]

Some planet.
[/quote]

That can't exist. Either the Normady was in FTL, in which case it's still in the Local Cluster or just outside it, where there aren't any habitable planets, or it was in a Relay jump, in which case it has just dropped out in deep space. 

[quote]
[quote]Why was joker running in the first place?[/quote]

To outrun the giant shockwave.
[/quote]

That he didn't know was going to occur until it did, didn't know what it would do, wasn't told to retreat, and still somehow manages to pick up your team (who are supposed to be dead) before making it out of the battle and either into FTL or to the Charon Relay. 

Either way, Joker was fleeing before the Crucible fires. 

[quote]
[quote]Garrus and Liara were with me, how did they get back on the Normandy? Did that giant laser just hit me and miss them and they decided to leave Shepard on the ground half-dead?[/quote]

If your EMS is low they do get killed by the beam. If not, the regain conciousness either before or after, and Joker probably picks them up to either get them out of the danger zone since there's no longer a point in fighting there or so they could fly to the Citadel to help Shepard. [/quote]

Speculation. 

"Hammer is wiped out". 

[quote]
He had more than enough time to do so.
[/quote]

If he began fleeing the battle when there was still a chance of victory, meaning it is against his character. 

[quote]
[quote]3) Why does the M-6 Carnfix have infinite ammo?[/quote]
 
Probably because as a regular cutscene Shepard would have not needed to reload the thing after spending all his shots, and the devs decided to make it interactive.[/quote]

Yeah that's a nitpicky one. It's for gameplay purposes. If you had run out of ammo fighting Marauder Shields and chose Destroy, people would still complain. 


[quote]
[quote]4) Why did Anderson (being an Admiral)  follow Shepard into the beam? [/quote]

What does his rank have to do with it?  He's leading ground forces, victory lies on the Citadel, and he hates sitting around and waiting.  Of course he'd go in.[/quote]

I don't see how this is an issue. Like you said, rank matters little at this point. 

Besides, Anderson following you into the beam raises a half dozen other questions. 

#219
JPR1964

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wright1978 wrote...

Glad you liked it. I thought it was a pile of railroaded plothole ridden drivel that made the entire experience of playing all 3 ME games seem pointless


Good to you op, but I feel more than this...

JPR out!

Hold the Line

#220
Essedyss

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Sorry if someone addressed this plothole before, but the one that gets me the most is if the citadel is part of the Child/AI/whatever and it controls the reapers, which I assume means its on their side why didn't it just 'open' itself and let the reaper fleet into the galaxy during ME1? Why did Saren have to invade the citadel with the geth to manual activate it when it was sentient all along?

I understand that the protheans who used the conduit to board the citadel altered the keepers to not respond to Sovereign signal, but why did that even matter if the citadel itself is home to the StarChild thing? Wouldn't it have just done it itself?

#221
Elishiaila

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K1llm1n1on wrote...

I agree with you on most of your post, and agree that the way this was handled wrankles.

The "That is what they promised" part I take issue with. Game devs are famous for over-promising on upcoming projects- Todd Howard, Peter Molyneaux, Muzyka, etc. Do you believe politicians' promises? They'll say anything to get you to support them.


If someone says: "we will try to implement this" "it is one of our goals" and they promise you something impossible, you don't take that for granted. It can be acceptable.

If someone says "we will do it" it is possible, its costs are reasonable, etc. and later they say they don't want to deliver and start speaking about artistic integrity then we have an issue. A massive issue.

But let me add one more thing: You knew there are issues with ending. How it changes the picture? People say: Ending killed the replay value. If you are careful because Bioware promised that your choices will matter. You invest more effort in it. And you see they lied, that is a disappointment.

If you know they lied, you play the game, you won't invest as much thought in your decisions, you won't start to wieght reasons, small differences won't be so important for you, and you won't be disappointed.

Bioware had means to tell us, how they had no luck with implementing enough endings, so don't invest too much in your decisions,etc. If they would have warned us we wouldn't be this disappointment. As you see they still lied when they knew perfectly that they won't deliver their promises. This is why I call their actions as fraud. I am sure we both know they had a perfect chance to communicate the changes before release. They skiped it and lied. 

#222
Elishiaila

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One more thing to add: Some say how expensive it would be to make more ending, story threads, etc to fulfill their promises.

As you see: Their key promises included story mode, and multiplayer shooter without story wasn't part of their promises, to say the least. Forcing us to play it for some ending contradicts their promises. Not forcing us to play multiplayer wouldn't cost a cent. And the money they spent on MP could have been spent on fulfilling promises.

#223
ZoharContact

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This ending would not have gotten nearly the same response if ME3 was a mediocre game, I'm beginning to realize. In my view, they had a mostly perfect execution right up to the last ten minutes. Even factoring in the huge disappointment the ending was, this is absolute Game of the Year material, at least as I see it.

I'd love to go over my experience with the ending in detail. I loved most of it: the slow-motion shambling, shaking off indoctrination to break the Illusive Man free of his, all the while sensing Shepard's despair at the loss of her squad (and possibly her love interest) to Harbinger.

Then she met the AI/VI/god/what have you in the form of that child, which made enough sense to me. It represented all that weighed most heavily on her mind, without being so familiar as to confuse her, and I had expected something like it.

It mentioned that the reapers harvested sapient life because they'd otherwise wipe themselves out with... AI? An odd thought, as my suspension of disbelief started to fail. Overpopulation or depletion of resources seemed more likely to me. And trust me, I can suspend disbelief with the best of them. But anyway, of the options available, synthesis seemed the most interesting. Controlling the reapers would sort of be like picking up Cerberus's torch, while the other would wipe out the geth when I felt I owed it to Legion to protect his people. Watching Shepard sacrifice herself was bittersweet, but if Liara was dead... Shepard might as well join her.

Then, when I saw the energy arc toward the mass relays, I had an immediate and horrifying thought. Didn't I destroy a solar system by doing this? Green explosions spread through the Milky Way. Uh... w-well, maybe the special energy that destroyed them wouldn't cause a super...nova. Right? As the Normandy attempts to outrun green energy. What!? Is it a supernova or isn't it!? Normandy breaks into pieces, crash lands. Now, this was the same energy that washed over the reapers all benign-like and made them act nice. What changed? Why did Joker crash land on a planet? Luckily, the planet looked suspiciously like the Salarian homeworld, and the leaves looked awful nifty. Oh, and now Joker is glowing green, okay. Oh! Liara is alive. Thank goodness, but, how?

Credits roll. I wait patiently, knowing that soon the game would continue and I'd find out whatever the hell happened. After the goofy stargazer talk, I sat staring blankly at my screen for several minutes. Then I did a google search and found that all the other endings do is change the color. Since then I have been glued to my computer screen, commiserating with all of you. It's been nine hours now.

K1llm1n1on: I can understand why you find this ending so thought provoking. Compared to the other 30+ hours of this amazing game, the ending was so dissatisfying that most of us have come together to soul-search and determine exactly what it is we hate so much about it. The end result is one of three outcomes, each one looking rather grim:

1) We invest ourselves into rationalizing it and either succeed or fail. It appears you have succeeded.

2) We cry foul and clamor for some closure, rather indignant at the thought of paying for it. That's where I'm at.

3) We move the hell on with our lives. Something the game makes difficult because it's amazing and makes us highly invested in all the possible conclusions that never happened.

#224
Reth Shepherd

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ZoharContact wrote...

This ending would not have gotten nearly the same response if ME3 was a mediocre game, I'm beginning to realize. In my view, they had a mostly perfect execution right up to the last ten minutes. Even factoring in the huge disappointment the ending was, this is absolute Game of the Year material, at least as I see it.

I'd love to go over my experience with the ending in detail. I loved most of it: the slow-motion shambling, shaking off indoctrination to break the Illusive Man free of his, all the while sensing Shepard's despair at the loss of her squad (and possibly her love interest) to Harbinger.

Then she met the AI/VI/god/what have you in the form of that child, which made enough sense to me. It represented all that weighed most heavily on her mind, without being so familiar as to confuse her, and I had expected something like it.

It mentioned that the reapers harvested sapient life because they'd otherwise wipe themselves out with... AI? An odd thought, as my suspension of disbelief started to fail. Overpopulation or depletion of resources seemed more likely to me. And trust me, I can suspend disbelief with the best of them. But anyway, of the options available, synthesis seemed the most interesting. Controlling the reapers would sort of be like picking up Cerberus's torch, while the other would wipe out the geth when I felt I owed it to Legion to protect his people. Watching Shepard sacrifice herself was bittersweet, but if Liara was dead... Shepard might as well join her.

Then, when I saw the energy arc toward the mass relays, I had an immediate and horrifying thought. Didn't I destroy a solar system by doing this? Green explosions spread through the Milky Way. Uh... w-well, maybe the special energy that destroyed them wouldn't cause a super...nova. Right? As the Normandy attempts to outrun green energy. What!? Is it a supernova or isn't it!? Normandy breaks into pieces, crash lands. Now, this was the same energy that washed over the reapers all benign-like and made them act nice. What changed? Why did Joker crash land on a planet? Luckily, the planet looked suspiciously like the Salarian homeworld, and the leaves looked awful nifty. Oh, and now Joker is glowing green, okay. Oh! Liara is alive. Thank goodness, but, how?

Credits roll. I wait patiently, knowing that soon the game would continue and I'd find out whatever the hell happened. After the goofy stargazer talk, I sat staring blankly at my screen for several minutes. Then I did a google search and found that all the other endings do is change the color. Since then I have been glued to my computer screen, commiserating with all of you. It's been nine hours now.

K1llm1n1on: I can understand why you find this ending so thought provoking. Compared to the other 30+ hours of this amazing game, the ending was so dissatisfying that most of us have come together to soul-search and determine exactly what it is we hate so much about it. The end result is one of three outcomes, each one looking rather grim:

1) We invest ourselves into rationalizing it and either succeed or fail. It appears you have succeeded.

2) We cry foul and clamor for some closure, rather indignant at the thought of paying for it. That's where I'm at.

3) We move the hell on with our lives. Something the game makes difficult because it's amazing and makes us highly invested in all the possible conclusions that never happened.


Welcome, Zohar. *hugs* You are not alone. Care to join our therapy threads? Some people have coped by creating their own personal endings (head-canons); a few of which have been posted here.
  • If you're interested, this thread adds a fourth option: refuse, and the consequences thereof.
  • This (very VERY long) thread covers the possibility that the entire ending might be one long dream/indoctrination sequence. Well worth the read, even though Bioware's statements at this point seem to hint that it's not true.
  • The very last mob you fight, a Marauder who's been re-christened Marauder Shields, has been turned into a folk hero who was just trying to keep Shepard from the bad endings. A comic series has been created around him and is turning into its own epic version of the ending. I highly recommend the story.
  • Annnnd, nothing to do with the campaign to change the ending, but other people are coping via humor. This thread is filled with (de)motivational posters created from screenshots from the game.
Just for the record, Bioware has stated that, "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April." (Many are guessing that it has something to do with the PAX convention, which would make it April 6-8, but nothing has been confirmed for sure. Also, please don't get your hopes up too much. Several Twitter posts made since then seem to indicate that Bioware doesn't plan to change the ending, merely 'clarify and add closure'. Aka: sounds a heck of a lot like we're getting a wordier version of the current ending. :sick: 

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 27 mars 2012 - 03:46 .


#225
Guest_forsaken gamer_*

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Essedyss wrote...

Sorry if someone addressed this plothole before, but the one that gets me the most is if the citadel is part of the Child/AI/whatever and it controls the reapers, which I assume means its on their side why didn't it just 'open' itself and let the reaper fleet into the galaxy during ME1? Why did Saren have to invade the citadel with the geth to manual activate it when it was sentient all along?

I understand that the protheans who used the conduit to board the citadel altered the keepers to not respond to Sovereign signal, but why did that even matter if the citadel itself is home to the StarChild thing? Wouldn't it have just done it itself?

I've been thinking along those lines ever since I finished the game.  It seems to invalidate ME1, and by extension the entire series.