148 réponses à ce sujet

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Again, TIM and Cerberus were right all along.

[Oldbones2]

AlanC9 wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...
So in ONE of the three endings you don't kill everyone who is in a system with a relay in it at the end.

You just strand them there forever. Which may or may not be their home. Or have anyone they loved be anywhere near them.

Or even have any food they can eat.

That's a bit overstated. Starships still work just fine without mass relays. Nobody's stranded forever. Maybe they can't go home, sure. Depends on where "home" is.

As for starving, turians are the only ones in real trouble, since their amino acids are uncommon.

The quarians in Sol system are just fine. They have their liveships with them, remember? While that seemed like a daft way to organize their fleets, in this instance it'll work well.

Actually you don't know who will starve and who won't.  I'll address Sol at the end because we have more details and I can be much more specific.

It is well established that FTL without relays would take decades to reach the nearest system.  That's the entire reason for having relays.

Now granted they can move around whatever system they are in as much as they want, but interstellar travel is now the exclusive purview of the Krogan and Asari.  It is far to slow for trade or communication.  Never mind convenience. 

As for food/livability, many systems have strategic resourses that are not related to the planets quality.  So if you are stuck defending a rock that has lots of Eezo and no atmosphere, better hope you've got a pistol with at least one heat sink left.

Even planets that sustain life can be difficult to live upon.  One world contains deadly spores if you have no enviroment suit.  Another has food that strips away your intelligence.  Another has a moon that will fall onto within 200 years. 

But what about the good worlds?  Other than Sur'kesh (which never gets attacked for some reason) the Reapers actively target any world with a large population.  So most garden worlds are either destroyed or partially devasted.

This doesn't even take into account places like Omega where all the food is shipped it or Illium where they need to import water to meet their population's needs.

And finally Earth.  As one of the first planets attacked it has suffered unimaginable amounts of destruction.  I'm not sure if the Reapers deliberately poisoned part of the ecosystem, but they would have to take a great deal of care to avoid it.  Eezo exposure to living organisms.  Falling ships/stations.  The rapid consumption of natural resources to facilitate their needs.

My guess.  Immediately after the Crucible fires, you can expect the Earth to be able to produce approximately 10% of the food it did before, and that assumes EVERYONE adopts a vegetarian diet, no one hordes, and NO ONE fights over resources.  However this 10% would not rise for decades possibly centuries and may actually fall depending on the amount of certain resources.  More below.

And now for the poor, poor Quarians and Turians.  Sorry kids, but you can't make a plant grow on sunshine and wishes.  Clean, unspoiled water is important for all plants.  Far more important is Phosphorus.  This is absolutely essential for plant growth.  Mine it, steal it, reprocess it from corpses, doesn't matter, without it you won't have any plants.  So no, the Quarians cannot simply grow enough food for the Turians and themselves. 


Here's the kicker, with only seven billion people to support Earth is already running short of phosphorus.  Right now, in real life.

Probably, all the Turians die, and half the Quarians too.

Earth could sustain maybe half a Billion humans for a while.  Far less if they share.

Modifié par Oldbones2, 27 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[Mars8309]

Probaby should have a spoiler alert warning in the title due to this being in a NO SPOILERS BOARD...just saying...

[Legion64]

Mars8309 wrote...

Probaby should have a spoiler alert warning in the title due to this being in a NO SPOILERS BOARD...just saying...

Do you realize how many ending threads are in this section and no action is taken against any of them?

[sedrikhcain]

Once again we see that the ending is SO bad, the minds of fans are flat out rejecting it.

"NO! That's not true! That's im-POSS-ible!

[Legion64]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Once again we see that the ending is SO bad, the minds of fans are flat out rejecting it.

"NO! That's not true! That's im-POSS-ible!

Harbinger: "No Shepard, it is true. I...am...your SALVATION!"

Shepard: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

[Mars8309]

Legion64 wrote...

Mars8309 wrote...

Probaby should have a spoiler alert warning in the title due to this being in a NO SPOILERS BOARD...just saying...

Do you realize how many ending threads are in this section and no action is taken against any of them?

of the ending threads theres complaining how the endings being a, b, c. but this would be spoiling. in all cases i have only hinted in what happens to the Mass Relays. Because i know i'm on a board of NO SPOILERS ALLOWED.

[AlanC9]

Oldbones2 wrote...
It is well established that FTL without relays would take decades to reach the nearest system.  That's the entire reason for having relays.

You mean cluster, not system. (We fly between systems all the time without relays.) And this is a very large overstatement. Ilos would have taken "years or decades" to reach (straight from the Codex) , but it's supposed to be unusually far from any Citadel world.

Now granted they can move around whatever system they are in as much as they want, but interstellar travel is now the exclusive purview of the Krogan and Asari.  It is far to slow for trade or communication.  Never mind convenience.  

Depends on who you're talking about trading with. 12 light-years to the day is plenty fast. It won't get you to where the next primary relay went any time soon, but a secondary relay trip is doable in a month or two.

Now, if by "trade or communication" you mean an Earth-Thessia run, then maybe you do have to leave that to the asari. It's not precisely clear what that distance is; there's no particular reason that the Normandy's star map would be an accurate projection, but we have no real data.

But what about the good worlds?  Other than Sur'kesh (which never gets attacked for some reason) the Reapers actively target any world with a large population.  So most garden worlds are either destroyed or partially devasted.

True, but they centered their attacks on urban centers. 

Edit: as for the rest of that argument, it doesn't really have anything to do with the mass relays. If all the garden worlds are wrecked then having the relays wouldn't help since there's no food to ship.

And now for the poor, poor Quarians and Turians.  Sorry kids, but you can't make a plant grow on sunshine and wishes.  Clean, unspoiled water is important for all plants.  Far more important is Phosphorus.  This is absolutely essential for plant growth.  Mine it, steal it, reprocess it from corpses, doesn't matter, without it you won't have any plants.  So no, the Quarians cannot simply grow enough food for the Turians and themselves.

Here's the kicker, with only seven billion people to support Earth is already running short of phosphorus.  Right now, in real life.

Probably, all the Turians die, and half the Quarians too.

Except that the quarians have been living without a planet for centuries. So how do you figure that they suddenly can't feed themselves? They're suddenly out of phosphorus now because....?

And since the entire quarian population is only 17 million, and plenty of them never came to Sol system, we're not talking about a huge number of people, even adding a hundred thousand or so turians. I imagine they could come up with that much phosphorus.

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 mars 2012 - 04:34 .

[GhostV9]

Star Brat says they're destroyed either way.

[sedrikhcain]

Legion64 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

Once again we see that the ending is SO bad, the minds of fans are flat out rejecting it.

"NO! That's not true! That's im-POSS-ible!

Harbinger: "No Shepard, it is true. I...am...your SALVATION!"

Shepard: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Heh heh. Win!

[GhostV9]

This is right after the star brat gives you all 3 options. He clearly says just by using the Crucible you will destroy the relays.

[Oldbones2]

AlanC9 wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...
It is well established that FTL without relays would take decades to reach the nearest system.  That's the entire reason for having relays.

You mean cluster, not system. (We fly between systems all the time without relays.) And this is a very large overstatement. Ilos would have taken "years or decades" to reach (straight from the Codex) , but it's supposed to be unusually far from any Citadel world.

Now granted they can move around whatever system they are in as much as they want, but interstellar travel is now the exclusive purview of the Krogan and Asari.  It is far to slow for trade or communication.  Never mind convenience.  

Depends on who you're talking about trading with. 12 light-years to the day is plenty fast. It won't get you to where the next primary relay went any time soon, but a secondary relay trip is doable in a month or two.

Now, if by "trade or communication" you mean an Earth-Thessia run, then maybe you do have to leave that to the asari. It's not precisely clear what that distance is; there's no particular reason that the Normandy's star map would be an accurate projection, but we have no real data.

But what about the good worlds?  Other than Sur'kesh (which never gets attacked for some reason) the Reapers actively target any world with a large population.  So most garden worlds are either destroyed or partially devasted.

True, but they centered their attacks on urban centers. 

Edit: as for the rest of that argument, it doesn't really have anything to do with the mass relays. If all the garden worlds are wrecked then having the relays wouldn't help since there's no food to ship.

And now for the poor, poor Quarians and Turians.  Sorry kids, but you can't make a plant grow on sunshine and wishes.  Clean, unspoiled water is important for all plants.  Far more important is Phosphorus.  This is absolutely essential for plant growth.  Mine it, steal it, reprocess it from corpses, doesn't matter, without it you won't have any plants.  So no, the Quarians cannot simply grow enough food for the Turians and themselves.

Here's the kicker, with only seven billion people to support Earth is already running short of phosphorus.  Right now, in real life.

Probably, all the Turians die, and half the Quarians too.

Except that the quarians have been living without a planet for centuries. So how do you figure that they suddenly can't feed themselves? They're suddenly out of phosphorus now because....?

And since the entire quarian population is only 17 million, and plenty of them never came to Sol system, we're not talking about a huge number of people, even adding a hundred thousand or so turians. I imagine they could come up with that much phosphorus.

You're right I did mean cluster. 

As for Ilos, well, the codex has been 'misleading' before.  The sheer volume of space means it would take decades if not centuries to travel the distances between relays.

Whether they attack urban centers or not, there will be detrimental effects on the world, particularily if they don't care about collateral damage.  Remember Palaven?  You could see fires from ****ing space.  And losing a city means you loose not only a population base and logistics center.  Being able to create food is worthless if no one can get it to where it needs to go.

Losing the relays means that the starving people can't A) settle a new world that isn't wrecked, or import food from a planet that has a surplus.


Whenever the Quarians enter a system, they take all the jobs and gobble up all the resources.  That's why the other races send them gifts, to keep them away.

Phosphorus, is as I said earlier, not overly abundant right now.  Chances are in 100 years, with 4 Billion more people it will be far more rare, most likely one of the minerals being imported.  It is not a matter of how many Turians/Quarians there are, but of how little Phosphorus there would be.

[da mighty rEAper]

startroll says that all options will destroy mass relays, hence the new dark age

[The Razman]

Oldbones2 wrote...

"...Releasing the energy of the crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays."

The Catalyst. Speaking in regards to Shepard's choices.

Relays go boom. Case closed.

Exactly. This is proof of what I'm saying.

The Citadel/Crucible does not release its energy in the Control ending. You very clearly see the arms of the Citadel closing, its beam is never released, and the Citadel is never destroyed.

In the other two endings, the Crucible does fire a beam at the relays ... destroying them. But not the Control ending.

Modifié par The Razman, 27 mars 2012 - 10:49 .

[Kidd]

Starchild is known for lying about consequences. I'm pretty sure most people who got a high EMS red ending can account for that.

Did I just seriously say that this game's Plot Explainer is lying and cannot be trusted?

[AkiKishi]

It's just cobbled together stuff like the jungle planet. Of course it makes no sense that the relays have to be destroyed for Shepard to control the Reapers when starkids been doing it with the relays intact all along.

[Lee T]

Stealth3 wrote...

WTF kind of troll are you? Clearly they get destroyed.

Proof:

1) ****ing Catalysts says so
2) Joker running from shockwave, yes waves mean explosion.
3) Clearly you can see them get blown up and oh in case I forgot...

...the ****ing starchild himself says so. If thats not proof, I don't know what is.

No spoiler here so I'll just say check the youtube videos on the indoctrination theory, the kid does at least lie once.

[The Razman]

BobSmith101 wrote...

It's just cobbled together stuff like the jungle planet. Of course it makes no sense that the relays have to be destroyed for Shepard to control the Reapers when starkids been doing it with the relays intact all along.

Which is why it never happened.

Control ending = relays intact, galactic civilisation is fine ... happy times for the galaxy.

Bioware just goofed in making it clear that was actually what was happening. I will bet £10 to anyone here that Bioware "clarify" this in whatever DLC they produce.

[AkiKishi]

The Razman wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It's just cobbled together stuff like the jungle planet. Of course it makes no sense that the relays have to be destroyed for Shepard to control the Reapers when starkids been doing it with the relays intact all along.

Which is why it never happened.

Control ending = relays intact, galactic civilisation is fine ... happy times for the galaxy.

Bioware just goofed in making it clear that was actually what was happening. I will bet £10 to anyone here that Bioware "clarify" this in whatever DLC they produce.

Goofed it being polite...

Destroy - get's rid of all synthetics. After being told he's part synthetic it's the only one Shepard can survive...
Control - just covered that one.
Merge  - If his DNA is needed as a blueprint for the "new race" it's not like he actually needs to be disintergrated.

[Michel1986]

@ OP.

Blue relays get destroyed!, starting at 1:28 from your movie.

[The Razman]

Michel1986 wrote...

@ OP.

Blue relays get destroyed!, starting at 1:28 from your movie.

That is explained in the OP.

[Skyhawk02]

Legion64 wrote...

Funny, I picked Control and my Relay shot its beam. Even if the only relay to break apart was the Sol System, wouldn't that still leave everyone trapped on Earth?

Not everyone, most races are still on their homeworlds and colonies, only their militaries went to earth, a lot of people seemed to miss that.

[philippe willaume]

The Razman wrote...

There's been something knocking around my head for a few days, but I just found the correct YouTube video to examine the situation properly and confirm it. We've all been assuming something incorrectly. Something major.

The Mass Relays do not get destroyed in every ending. In fact, they only get destroyed in the Destroy (red) and Synthesis (green) endings.

All the endings played side by side in this video allow us to clearly see the differences between the endings. And notably, you do not see two things occuring in the blue endings which happen in the others. The Citadel does not put out its beam of energy and subsequently is not destroyed, and the Sol System Relay does not explode. It does break apart, but the shot of it exploding is absent.

The explanation? Bioware have goofed. They never intended the assumption to be that the blue ending destroyed any mass relays ... but in using the same footage for most of the scenes, they neglected to make a new one (either through oversight or just lack of time; speculation) which shows the relay firing its pulse without breaking apart afterwards. But the intention seems to be clear ... the difference between the blue endings and the others is scenes of destruction being omitted.

The relay network is intact with the Control endings.

EDIT: Some have said that the Starchild says directly that all endings destroy the relays. What he actually says is: "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will end the cycle, but will also destroy the mass relays."

This backs up what I'm saying here precisely. The Citadel/Crucible does not release its energy in the Control ending. You very clearly see the arms of the Citadel closing, its beam is never released, and the Citadel is never destroyed.

hello
sorry dude
 but the relay, presumably the sol one. still shoot the blue beam (1:28) before dsimentling and We still have the galaxy shot when a beam goes from relay to relay. (1:35)
and really  breaking apart  and breaking appart by explosing is still being destroyed.
so yes the relays are destroyed but breaks apart  instead of being destroyed by exploding.

phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 27 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[AkiKishi]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

Not everyone, most races are still on their homeworlds and colonies, only their militaries went to earth, a lot of people seemed to miss that.

It's still devastating. Like suddenly removing all forms of transport from the world overnight.Not as bad as a supernova going off in every system with a mass relay but possibly more cruel in the long term.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 27 mars 2012 - 11:22 .