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[Skyhawk02]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

Not everyone, most races are still on their homeworlds and colonies, only their militaries went to earth, a lot of people seemed to miss that.

It's still devastating. Like suddenly removing all forms of transport from the world overnight.Not as bad as a supernova going off in every system with a mass relay but possibly more cruel in the long term.

That is a good analogy.  But if we eliminated all forms of transport overnight, don't you think some people would still survive? 

I agree that no matter which ending you get it is incredibly depressing.  But isn't it better than being slaughtered by the reapers?  At least people have a chance now, maybe a small one, but they have a chance, whereas before they didn't.

Even if the relays do explode destroying all life in the immediate system, not all systems have mass relays, so life still has a chance.  Even if all the current advanced civilizations, humans, quarians, turians, etc.  All die off, at least the next races to evolve will have a chance at a fresh start free of the reaper influence.  This is why the ending is "bittersweet".

[The Razman]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

Not everyone, most races are still on their homeworlds and colonies, only their militaries went to earth, a lot of people seemed to miss that.

It's still devastating. Like suddenly removing all forms of transport from the world overnight.Not as bad as a supernova going off in every system with a mass relay but possibly more cruel in the long term.

That is a good analogy.  But if we eliminated all forms of transport overnight, don't you think some people would still survive? 

I agree that no matter which ending you get it is incredibly depressing.  But isn't it better than being slaughtered by the reapers?  At least people have a chance now, maybe a small one, but they have a chance, whereas before they didn't.

Even if the relays do explode destroying all life in the immediate system, not all systems have mass relays, so life still has a chance.  Even if all the current advanced civilizations, humans, quarians, turians, etc.  All die off, at least the next races to evolve will have a chance at a fresh start free of the reaper influence.  This is why the ending is "bittersweet".

It's significantly less bitter now that we know the relays don't get destroyed in the Control ending though, no?

[philippe willaume]

The Razman wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

Not everyone, most races are still on their homeworlds and colonies, only their militaries went to earth, a lot of people seemed to miss that.

It's still devastating. Like suddenly removing all forms of transport from the world overnight.Not as bad as a supernova going off in every system with a mass relay but possibly more cruel in the long term.

That is a good analogy.  But if we eliminated all forms of transport overnight, don't you think some people would still survive? 

I agree that no matter which ending you get it is incredibly depressing.  But isn't it better than being slaughtered by the reapers?  At least people have a chance now, maybe a small one, but they have a chance, whereas before they didn't.

Even if the relays do explode destroying all life in the immediate system, not all systems have mass relays, so life still has a chance.  Even if all the current advanced civilizations, humans, quarians, turians, etc.  All die off, at least the next races to evolve will have a chance at a fresh start free of the reaper influence.  This is why the ending is "bittersweet".

It's significantly less bitter now that we know the relays don't get destroyed in the Control ending though, no?

But the relays are destroyed. They just don’t explode

why would any other relay behave differently than the one shown the video?
I.e. send the blue beam and breaking apart? Hence tthe blue beam going through the galaxy map.

If they have broken apart they have been destroyed explosion or not,
Phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 27 mars 2012 - 11:59 .

[Hans Tiger]

The Razman
Sorry to ruin your parade but clearly in 1:30
You can see how the Relay is shattered and the blue "ray" goes to other relays too.

[AkiKishi]

Skyhawk02 wrote...
That is a good analogy.  But if we eliminated all forms of transport overnight, don't you think some people would still survive? 

I agree that no matter which ending you get it is incredibly depressing.  But isn't it better than being slaughtered by the reapers?  At least people have a chance now, maybe a small one, but they have a chance, whereas before they didn't.

Even if the relays do explode destroying all life in the immediate system, not all systems have mass relays, so life still has a chance.  Even if all the current advanced civilizations, humans, quarians, turians, etc.  All die off, at least the next races to evolve will have a chance at a fresh start free of the reaper influence.  This is why the ending is "bittersweet".

Yes, that's the point you could still survive but it would not be life as you know it. Without transport networks, you have no food etc.

That's a fair point. But life would have continued anyway and the folks in the next cycle may have had more luck, or been better prepared. It's a bit like how archealogists don't dig something up because archealogy is destruction, rather they leave it until technology has advanced.
Speaking as a gamer, a game that leaves me with the feeling of maybe I should have just let the bad guys win it's not satisfying at all. But thats why games are different to movies and books.

[Tirigon]

The Relays ARE destroyed, in EVERY ending, period. If you disagree you either didnt watch the ending, or are trolling. It is shown in EVERY POSSIBLE OUTCOME that they explode.

Granted, they may not explode in the "wipe out entire system" style like in Arrival, but they are destroyed nonetheless.

[The Razman]

philippe willaume wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Skyhawk02 wrote...

Not everyone, most races are still on their homeworlds and colonies, only their militaries went to earth, a lot of people seemed to miss that.

It's still devastating. Like suddenly removing all forms of transport from the world overnight.Not as bad as a supernova going off in every system with a mass relay but possibly more cruel in the long term.

That is a good analogy.  But if we eliminated all forms of transport overnight, don't you think some people would still survive? 

I agree that no matter which ending you get it is incredibly depressing.  But isn't it better than being slaughtered by the reapers?  At least people have a chance now, maybe a small one, but they have a chance, whereas before they didn't.

Even if the relays do explode destroying all life in the immediate system, not all systems have mass relays, so life still has a chance.  Even if all the current advanced civilizations, humans, quarians, turians, etc.  All die off, at least the next races to evolve will have a chance at a fresh start free of the reaper influence.  This is why the ending is "bittersweet".

It's significantly less bitter now that we know the relays don't get destroyed in the Control ending though, no?

But the relays are destroyed. They just don’t explode

why would any other relay behave differently than the one shown the video?
I.e. send the blue beam and breaking apart? Hence tthe blue beam going through the galaxy map.

If they have broken apart they have been destroyed explosion or not,
Phil

I believe you haven't read the original post. Sorry about that.

That the relay "breaks apart" is a goof on Bioware's part. Every other part of the ending, the Starchild's explanation and the cutscene footage points to the relays NOT being destroyed. It's clear to everyone that they created the same base footage for the three different game endings, and then modified them all to include different colours and slightly different effects. The most likely explanation is that it wasn't caught until too late in the production process that the base footage of the relay emitting the beam included it breaking apart. Nothing else apart from that part of the footage points to the relays being destroyed, and when you see that they made the endings from the same base cutscene ... it becomes understandable how the mistake was made.

Bioware's intention was that the relays not be destroyed in this ending.

[The Razman]

Tirigon wrote...

The Relays ARE destroyed, in EVERY ending, period. If you disagree you either didnt watch the ending, or are trolling. It is shown in EVERY POSSIBLE OUTCOME that they explode.

Watch the video. No emission of energy from the Crucible. No explosion of the relay. No destruction of the Citadel.

This is the ending as it was given to us. It can't get clearer than that. There's no wild speculation or Indoctrination Theory-style interpretation of facts going on here ... it's simply there, for anyone to see if they look.

[Tirigon]

The Razman wrote...

That the relay "breaks apart" is a goof on Bioware's part. Every other part of the ending, the Starchild's explanation and the cutscene footage points to the relays NOT being destroyed. It's clear to everyone that they created the same base footage for the three different game endings, and then modified them all to include different colours and slightly different effects. The most likely explanation is that it wasn't caught until too late in the production process that the base footage of the relay emitting the beam included it breaking apart. Nothing else apart from that part of the footage points to the relays being destroyed, and when you see that they made the endings from the same base cutscene ... it becomes understandable how the mistake was made.

Bioware's intention was that the relays not be destroyed in this ending.

So we're back at " the ending would be fine if BioWare hadn't screwed up royally?"

The Razman wrote...

Watch the video. No emission of energy from the Crucible. No explosion of the relay. No destruction of the Citadel.

This is the ending as it was given to us.
It can't get clearer than that. There's no wild speculation or
Indoctrination Theory-style interpretation of facts going on here ...
it's simply there, for anyone to see if they look.

The Citadel remains. The Relays however dont.

Modifié par Tirigon, 27 mars 2012 - 12:52 .

[The Razman]

Tirigon wrote...

The Razman wrote...

That the relay "breaks apart" is a goof on Bioware's part. Every other part of the ending, the Starchild's explanation and the cutscene footage points to the relays NOT being destroyed. It's clear to everyone that they created the same base footage for the three different game endings, and then modified them all to include different colours and slightly different effects. The most likely explanation is that it wasn't caught until too late in the production process that the base footage of the relay emitting the beam included it breaking apart. Nothing else apart from that part of the footage points to the relays being destroyed, and when you see that they made the endings from the same base cutscene ... it becomes understandable how the mistake was made.

Bioware's intention was that the relays not be destroyed in this ending.

So we're back at " the ending would be fine if BioWare hadn't screwed up royally?"

Yes. Bioware made a mistake in the production process with that one clip, which misled people. The hazard of using the same stock footage for three different endings with only minor changes. The original intention is what I'm attempting to bring to light to people here.

[The Razman]

Tirigon wrote...

The Citadel remains. The Relays however dont.

Question it. If the relays are destroyed as with the other two endings, why didn't they leave in the explosion as with those ones? If the Crucible's energy being emitted is what destroys the relays (direct quote from the Starchild), then why would they be destroyed if the Crucible doesn't fire (which, as you've just said, it doesn't in the Control ending).

Isn't it more likely that Bioware messed up on that one base clip, rather than something illogical happen like the relays get destroyed when there's no reason for them to be?

[Calemyr]

No, I gotta agree with the Razman, because that was the second ending I saw. The Citadel turtles rather than explodes and Relays don't explode - the video doesn't just end early, as pieces are flying off by the time the shockwave is fully fired in the normal endings, and the shockwave is fully fired here as well. It may damage the relays, but it doesn't outright destroy them and very specifically fails to do so. Which means that TIM's answer is the only one that actually can save galactic civilization after all.

But while the civ is saved, the ending is not. No closure with allies (individuals and races alike), and the Normandy doesn't care whether the Relays survive because it's dead either way, so your friends are trapped on an unidentified planet with no evident escape. It's not Earth, though. Earth is described as over-developed in every version of the telling. Even before the Reapers burnt it down, there were no scenic natural vistas like that left, much less that lunar arrangement. And that lunar arrangement is seen in the Stargazer epilogue as well, which is set generations in the future and they're still land-bound.

In other words, all three endings are "happy" in another way:
Destroy: Shepard can be saved
Control: The Relays can be saved.
Synthesis: The Pattern is broken, and the synth-organic war won't go to the point of extinction - supposedly.

That's happy enough in my book. The ending is still a steaming pile of "art" anyway, however, for the lack of closure, the lack of effect your assets have, and the way the morals it taught were in direct opposition to the morals held for the rest of the trilogy.

[Tirigon]

The Razman wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

The Citadel remains. The Relays however dont.

Question it. If the relays are destroyed as with the other two endings, why didn't they leave in the explosion as with those ones? If the Crucible's energy being emitted is what destroys the relays (direct quote from the Starchild), then why would they be destroyed if the Crucible doesn't fire (which, as you've just said, it doesn't in the Control ending).

Isn't it more likely that Bioware messed up on that one base clip, rather than something illogical happen like the relays get destroyed when there's no reason for them to be?

The energy is emitted, however. The blue light spreads across the galaxy and hits the Normandy. Or are you saying that is ALSO a mistake?

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

if you choose the option to control the Reaper the Citadel not come totally destroyed but, Shepard died and this is only the and of TIM,

if you choose the red ending Shepard live and Reaper come destroyed this is the real ending, but the Citadel come destroyed, Shepard in on the Earth, but the Relay not its in good state, probaly come destroyed,

its possbile BioWare have cut any part for time, or for put in dlc, or for explain this element in the future series, or the Relay explode and the Galaxy come reset, for new species,

Galaxy return in the middleage.

[The Razman]

Tirigon wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

The Citadel remains. The Relays however dont.

Question it. If the relays are destroyed as with the other two endings, why didn't they leave in the explosion as with those ones? If the Crucible's energy being emitted is what destroys the relays (direct quote from the Starchild), then why would they be destroyed if the Crucible doesn't fire (which, as you've just said, it doesn't in the Control ending).

Isn't it more likely that Bioware messed up on that one base clip, rather than something illogical happen like the relays get destroyed when there's no reason for them to be?

The energy is emitted, however. The blue light spreads across the galaxy and hits the Normandy. Or are you saying that is ALSO a mistake?

No. I'm saying that the Crucible didn't fire, and the Crucible's beam is what destroys the relays. You very clearly see the Citadel closing instead of firing anything.

[Calemyr]

One could argue that the intensity of the shockwave didn't need to be that powerful anymore. The blue wave just was a software patch - it just had to be strong enough to reach all corners of the galaxy, not to to have the strength (even in the most remote corners) to rewrite all synth-organic life or destroy the Reapers. It still might have been strong enough to overwhelm the Normandy, but the Relays are darn tough, so it could have easily been somewhere between the tolerance threshold of the two structures. Not that this is ever even suggested anywhere of course.

Of course, this ending results in the same 'one true ending' problem detractors of the Indoctrination Theory complain about - three options, only one of which  allows everything you fought for to survive.

Modifié par Calemyr, 27 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[Tirigon]

The Razman wrote...

No. I'm saying that the Crucible didn't fire, and the Crucible's beam is what destroys the relays. You very clearly see the Citadel closing instead of firing anything.

Well that brings up ANOTHER problem then, though. 2 actually.

For one thing, if you are right and the Relays are not destroyed, but it is a mere mistake in the cutscene, then how come the Normandy is damaged and crashes anyways?
You have in another thread explained that it would be damaged by the 0-Mass tunnel collapsing as a result of the Relay's destruction. Yet, then it should not happen in the Control ending.

Secondly, where does the blue wave controling the Reapers and spreading across the Galaxy come from?

[Tirigon]

Calemyr wrote...

One could argue that the intensity of the shockwave didn't need to be that powerful anymore. The blue wave just was a software patch - it just had to be strong enough to reach all corners of the galaxy, not to to have the strength (even in the most remote corners) to rewrite all synth-organic life or destroy the Reapers. It still might have been strong enough to overwhelm the Normandy, but the Relays are darn tough, so it could have easily been somewhere between the tolerance threshold of the two structures. Not that this is ever even suggested anywhere of course.

A software patch has physical strength? Come on.....

This might be an explanation if the Normandy would be seemingly unharmed and just the software fails. But there is physical damage visible.

[The Razman]

Tirigon wrote...

Well that brings up ANOTHER problem then, though. 2 actually.

For one thing, if you are right and the Relays are not destroyed, but it is a mere mistake in the cutscene, then how come the Normandy is damaged and crashes anyways?
You have in another thread explained that it would be damaged by the 0-Mass tunnel collapsing as a result of the Relay's destruction. Yet, then it should not happen in the Control ending.

Secondly, where does the blue wave controling the Reapers and spreading across the Galaxy come from?

The first ... for the same reason that it happens in the other two endings. Being hit by a shockwave while in the middle of a mass relay jump is going to knock you out of the corridor. The logic of "shockwave = knocking ship out of relay travel". I don't see why that's been invalidated by it being "a different kind of shockwave".

And secondly, in all the endings an initial wave of energy is produced from the Citadel which envelops Earth and the surrounding space, without the Crucible firing. That wave is where it comes from. You see it happening.

[Tirigon]

The Razman wrote...

The first ... for the same reason that it happens in the other two endings. Being hit by a shockwave while in the middle of a mass relay jump is going to knock you out of the corridor. The logic of "shockwave = knocking ship out of relay travel". I don't see why that's been invalidated by it being "a different kind of shockwave".

Because it is NOT a shockwave. It passes over Earth without inflicting any damage, while a shockwave would knock over everything it hits. The video makes it obvious that whatever that blue light is, it is not a physical force.

And secondly, in all the endings an initial wave of energy is produced from the Citadel which envelops Earth and the surrounding space, without the Crucible firing. That wave is where it comes from. You see it happening.

Which again is stupid; if the initial wave is enough to trigger the chain reaction across all Mass Relays, why would the Crucible even fire in the other endings?

That is the problem with this ending; every explanation opens another plothole.

[Callidus Thorn]

Absolutely wrong I'm afraid. Yes, what you see is different, but with the control ending everything still blows up. The relay is hit by a pulse rather than a beam, which is then converted into the beam that would've been fired, which is why they play out the same from that point. Different process means a different result for the Sol relay, but after that, as the galaxy view shows, exploding relays everywhere.

[kbct]

The Razman wrote...
Bioware just goofed in making it clear that was actually what was happening.

Razman, you have assume BioWare made a mistake for your argument to have merit. Maybe BioWare made another mistake and relay travel through the Omega-4 Relay was actually instantaneous as described in the codex.

[crazyrabbits]

The Razman wrote...

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Dude the mass relays explode in ALL the endings. The only difference is that for some reason in the Blue color ending we don't see the shockwave, but the scene where we see the relays break apart and get destroyed is the same for everyone.

And if that doesn't do it for you, the very next scene we get to see the same galaxy map for every ending, and all the shockwaves are visible in all the endings, showing that the relays did indeed go bye bye.

No. There is no "for some reasons" in logic.

Look at what you see again. There is a reason that a shot showing the explosion of the mass relay would specifically be left out. That's not just some anomaly ... that's by design. Coupled with the fact that the Citadel also avoids destruction (very specifically ... you actually see a shot of the arms of the Citadel closing as opposed to the shot of the Citadel blowing up producing a beam) and you suddenly are left with the question ... why would Bioware specifically create this ending which omits all scenes of destruction?

Because they never intended us to assume that the relays are destroyed in all endings.

What you see on the galaxy map is waves going out. Waves do not mean explosions. There's not a single explosion in the entire blue ending. Bioware have messed up by not changing the shot of the relay emitting its beam so that there isn't a momentary view of it breaking apart ... all the other evidence points to Bioware not wanting to show destruction in that ending.

Regardless of what colour is picked, in the end, it's just semantics. The same stock footage of the relays beginning to explode are used for all three sequences. There's no reason NOT to assume, as the "Ending Colours Explained" video shows, that the relays aren't destroyed afterwards anyway. They're shown beginning to break apart in all three variations.

As far as I'm concerned, they messed up.

[Farbautisonn]

I think bioware was behind the battle of hastings.

[Tirigon]

Farbautisonn wrote...

I think bioware was behind the battle of hastings.

Probably, but I dont see the relation to this thread.