148 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

The Razman wrote...

Indeed. That's exactly what he should have said. The issue here is not with what the Starchild's said. It's that the writing ... is poor. Very poor. It doesn't make it clear what the Starchild means when he says these things. It's almost as if the Starchild's said that expecting us to know that the Crucible's energy is required for two of those options, but not for the Control one.

After the fact, we can clearly see that "Releasing the Crucible's energy" refers to the Destroy and Synthesis endings. But only because we see it happening. I'm the first one in any group to say that the Starchild's explanations of the ending choices are not written well or clearly enough ... I didn't understand them first playthrough either.

Well you can understand it in this way. Or maybe he DID mean it to apply to all options after all. Until the promised clarification DLC comes out we cant know that. After all, it is undebatable that in the Control Ending, SOME energy is released (the blue wave) and it DOES affect the Mass Relays in some way. The only unclear part is whether or not it was enough energy to cause destruction, or merely a bit.

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The Starchild is just full of a **** as far as I am concerned.

That is true, and it is why personally I believe BioWare should just retcon everything after Marauder Shields and deliver a ending which makes sense.

HOWEVER, unless they do just that, which is very unlikely, the Starchild is all we got and we have to take it, or take the Matrix Revolutions approach: "It didnt happen, the Franchise ended after the second part".

[xsdob]

I think every ending has one scene that's different and that makes them only semi-unique.

In destroy, it's shepard taking a breath in some wreckage.

In control, it's the citadel and the relays not being completely destroyed.

In synthesis, It's seeing EDI live and knowing that synthetics and organics can now truly co-exist.

So yeah, each of those makes the endings unique, but not different enough for most people's taste, myself included. Hopefully these become the focus of the new DLC, and hopefully it can be something like awakening, where you can play an ending as your first shepard, and if not, you can create a new character instead.

[Oldbones2]

I cannot.. I just can't.

Releasing the Control Synthesis and Destroy are all dependent on releasing the Crucible's energy.

[BiancoAngelo7]

The Razman wrote...

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Bioware's intention was that the relays not be destroyed in this ending.

Dude, you have now degenerated to having the only defense of your completely invalid argument as "I know what Bioware's intention was even though they showed us something completely different in the game"

You have now reached the level of denial, and if you continue, it will become apparent you are trolling.

Countless people here have brought all the evidence you need.

Starchild says they explode.
We SEE the relays break apart with internal explosions
The galaxy map shows us the shockwave of energy that for some reason you tried to take as "well its just the energy not the explosion" ... what????
Joker is running AWAY from said EXPLOSION shock wave in ALL the endings
All "endings" show all the relays shooting or transmitting the beam to the other relays right before they blow.

You are trying to deduce an answer that suits YOUR theory by eliminating or explaining away with your own conjections EVERY single piece of evidence that disproves it (everything) and focusing SOLELY on the ONE thing that doesn't disprove it (omission of one part of the end).

Notice how I said DOESN'T DISPROVE, not "PROVES" because there's absolutely nothing proving ANYTHING of what you've said.

Razman, it's time to stop. It's gotten to the point of you saying "the sky isn't blue because at sunset its orange...that means nature INTENDED it to be orange, but it goofed, trust me guys, im right"

Seriously....

Oh boy, I so look forward to the clarification DLC. :-D

This has gone beyond the ridiculous. It's obvious Razman is either just stupid or trolling. I'm sorry if that's offensive, but he has had EVERY single thing he has said debunked with proof, links, vids and screenshots.

He continues to purposefully talk in circles and just rehash what he says previously to make it seem like he's responding to people. When in fact, he is trying to use your own words to make it look like there is actually an argument to be made where there is no possibility for this.

I have quoted his last response to my last post to him which had all the things disproving his "theory" in a very clear and concise manner. (not to mention that others have added other things such as the "final hours" quotes about how all the relays explode no matter what ending you choose)

As you can see all he can provide in response is a smug arrogant pseudo intellectual response of saying essentially that I'm not at his level so instead of even attempting to rebuke my facts (which he can't) he just moves to the assertion that he is right, and that he will be vindicated when the ending dlc comes out.

Honestly, let's all just stop feeding the troll. I'm really starting to get the impression that he's just a supporter of the current endings and wants to make a reasoning for the current crappy ending no matter what.

It's no use. Just let him be.

[Alistair Theirin]

The relays have to be destroyed in the control ending. How else does the Normandy crash on a deserted planet if there is no energy to chase them?

[Firewolf99]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

This has gone beyond the ridiculous. It's obvious Razman is either just stupid or trolling. I'm sorry if that's offensive, but he has had EVERY single thing he has said debunked with proof, links, vids and screenshots.

He continues to purposefully talk in circles and just rehash what he says previously to make it seem like he's responding to people. When in fact, he is trying to use your own words to make it look like there is actually an argument to be made where there is no possibility for this.

I have quoted his last response to my last post to him which had all the things disproving his "theory" in a very clear and concise manner. (not to mention that others have added other things such as the "final hours" quotes about how all the relays explode no matter what ending you choose)

As you can see all he can provide in response is a smug arrogant pseudo intellectual response of saying essentially that I'm not at his level so instead of even attempting to rebuke my facts (which he can't) he just moves to the assertion that he is right, and that he will be vindicated when the ending dlc comes out.

Honestly, let's all just stop feeding the troll. I'm really starting to get the impression that he's just a supporter of the current endings and wants to make a reasoning for the current crappy ending no matter what.

It's no use. Just let him be.

If you don't like what he's saying, then why are you still here? Seriously.

The guy has a theory. He's suggesting that BIOWARE GOOFED when trying to show differences in the ending, by being too subtle and not concentrating on cutscenes. (Or, rather, goofed even more than they did by not giving us any real differences in the ending.) 

You say that they didn't mess up the proposed attempt to make endings different. That's an opinion: and, by the looks of things, a more agreed upon one. But the fact of the matter is, his viewpoint is also an opinion.

AND OPINIONS ARE NEVER WRONG!!!!

So if you don't like his opinion, don't resort to this. Either discuss it, or, if you're bored/ don't like where the discussion is going, leave.

Personally, I'm still going with the indoctrination theory. But we'll see, if they ever get round to releasing clarification DLC...

Modifié par Firewolf99, 27 mars 2012 - 07:05 .

[kbct]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

This has gone beyond the ridiculous. It's obvious Razman is either just stupid or trolling. I'm sorry if that's offensive, but he has had EVERY single thing he has said debunked with proof, links, vids and screenshots.

He continues to purposefully talk in circles and just rehash what he says previously to make it seem like he's responding to people. When in fact, he is trying to use your own words to make it look like there is actually an argument to be made where there is no possibility for this.

I have quoted his last response to my last post to him which had all the things disproving his "theory" in a very clear and concise manner. (not to mention that others have added other things such as the "final hours" quotes about how all the relays explode no matter what ending you choose)

As you can see all he can provide in response is a smug arrogant pseudo intellectual response of saying essentially that I'm not at his level so instead of even attempting to rebuke my facts (which he can't) he just moves to the assertion that he is right, and that he will be vindicated when the ending dlc comes out.

Honestly, let's all just stop feeding the troll. I'm really starting to get the impression that he's just a supporter of the current endings and wants to make a reasoning for the current crappy ending no matter what.

It's no use. Just let him be.

No worries. Other people reading this thread can look at the facts presented and make up their own minds.

Modifié par kbct, 27 mars 2012 - 07:12 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Firewolf99 wrote...

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

This has gone beyond the ridiculous. It's obvious Razman is either just stupid or trolling. I'm sorry if that's offensive, but he has had EVERY single thing he has said debunked with proof, links, vids and screenshots.

He continues to purposefully talk in circles and just rehash what he says previously to make it seem like he's responding to people. When in fact, he is trying to use your own words to make it look like there is actually an argument to be made where there is no possibility for this.

I have quoted his last response to my last post to him which had all the things disproving his "theory" in a very clear and concise manner. (not to mention that others have added other things such as the "final hours" quotes about how all the relays explode no matter what ending you choose)

As you can see all he can provide in response is a smug arrogant pseudo intellectual response of saying essentially that I'm not at his level so instead of even attempting to rebuke my facts (which he can't) he just moves to the assertion that he is right, and that he will be vindicated when the ending dlc comes out.

Honestly, let's all just stop feeding the troll. I'm really starting to get the impression that he's just a supporter of the current endings and wants to make a reasoning for the current crappy ending no matter what.

It's no use. Just let him be.

If you don't like what he's saying, then why are you still here? Seriously.

The guy has a theory. He's suggesting that BIOWARE GOOFED when trying to show differences in the ending, by being too subtle and not concentrating on cutscenes. (Or, rather, goofed even more than they did by not giving us any real differences in the ending.) 

You say that they didn't mess up the proposed attempt to make endings different. That's an opinion: and, by the looks of things, a more agreed upon one. But the fact of the matter is, his viewpoint is also an opinion.

AND OPINIONS ARE NEVER WRONG!!!!

So if you don't like his opinion, don't resort to this. Either discuss it, or, if you're bored/ don't like where the discussion is going, leave.

Personally, I'm still going with the indoctrination theory. But we'll see, if they ever get round to releasing clarification DLC...

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I like you, believe the indoctrination theory is correct.

however OP has repeatedly talked in circles, deflected, misdirected and avoided giving straight answers to logical fallacies in his argument.

To then at the end basically say "I cam up with this theory because I know Bioware made a mistake and meant for the relays to not be destroyed in the blue ending"

When we all have been linked to the "final hours" or whatever documentary thing where the devs say that no matter what option you use ALL THE REALYS ARE GONE.

I don't understand how much clearer than that it can get. It's not that I don't like his opinion, it's that he's purposefully going in circles to purport a theory he likes, based on absolutely nothing, as FACT. Compounded by his behavior which is faux-innocent leading people to believe that he is genuinely arguing the validity of his theory when in fact he knows there is none.

There is a big difference between that and just having an opinion.

[Tirigon]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I like you, believe the indoctrination theory is correct.

however OP has repeatedly talked in circles, deflected, misdirected and avoided giving straight answers to logical fallacies in his argument.

To then at the end basically say "I cam up with this theory because I know Bioware made a mistake and meant for the relays to not be destroyed in the blue ending"

When we all have been linked to the "final hours" or whatever documentary thing where the devs say that no matter what option you use ALL THE REALYS ARE GONE.

I don't understand how much clearer than that it can get. It's not that I don't like his opinion, it's that he's purposefully going in circles to purport a theory he likes, based on absolutely nothing, as FACT. Compounded by his behavior which is faux-innocent leading people to believe that he is genuinely arguing the validity of his theory when in fact he knows there is none.

There is a big difference between that and just having an opinion.

This is ridiculous. You blame the OP for defending his theory but, at the same time, admit you are a believer of the Indoctrination Theory, which makes even less sense than the OP's theory, is just as full of holes and equally comes down to "we know what BioWare intended and you fools don't, PRAISE US, ORDINARY MASSES!"

In fact, all the points I bolded perfectly describes every IT believer.

[Ieldra]

The Razman wrote...
What he says about the Destroy ending is this: "You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want. Including the Geth, and most of the technology you rely on."

You got that line? Do you know the conditions needed to get it? Because I only got the first part, not the stuff about technology.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 mars 2012 - 07:45 .

[Tirigon]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Razman wrote...
What he says about the Destroy ending is this: "You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want. Including the Geth, and most of the technology you rely on."

You got that line? Do you know the conditions needed to get it? Because I only got the first part, not the stuff about technology.

I am not entirely sure but it seems it is, as so much more, tied to your EMS. I remember this line from my 2500 EMS playthrough, but I was surprised not to hear it when I finished with 3400 or so.
Of course the EMS were not the only differences so I am not quite certain however.

Modifié par Tirigon, 27 mars 2012 - 07:50 .

[The Razman]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Razman wrote...
What he says about the Destroy ending is this: "You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want. Including the Geth, and most of the technology you rely on."

You got that line? Do you know the conditions needed to get it? Because I only got the first part, not the stuff about technology.

Really? Interesting. As far as I'm aware there's only three different Catalyst sequences ... one for Destroy Only, one for Destroy or Control, and one for all three options. I admit, I haven't watched each one through to look for differences.

[Ieldra]

The Razman wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Razman wrote...
What he says about the Destroy ending is this: "You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want. Including the Geth, and most of the technology you rely on."

You got that line? Do you know the conditions needed to get it? Because I only got the first part, not the stuff about technology.

Really? Interesting. As far as I'm aware there's only three different Catalyst sequences ... one for Destroy Only, one for Destroy or Control, and one for all three options. I admit, I haven't watched each one through to look for differences.

It appears that if you get all three options (i.e. EMS 3000+) then you won't get the line about the technology being destroyed. The low EMS versions are also different in that the Catalyst is less friendly. "You have choice, more than you deserve" vs. "You have choice, more than you know". and "Why are you here" vs. "Wake up".

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 mars 2012 - 07:59 .

[The Razman]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Razman wrote...
What he says about the Destroy ending is this: "You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want. Including the Geth, and most of the technology you rely on."

You got that line? Do you know the conditions needed to get it? Because I only got the first part, not the stuff about technology.

Really? Interesting. As far as I'm aware there's only three different Catalyst sequences ... one for Destroy Only, one for Destroy or Control, and one for all three options. I admit, I haven't watched each one through to look for differences.

It appears that if you get all three options (i.e. EMS 3000+) then you won't get the line about the technology being destroyed.

You appear to be right. Interesting, though not sure whether it's a significant change, seeing as how technology blatantly is destroyed if you choose Destroy, regardless of whether you have a high EMS or not.

Open to a logical investigation though, that ...

Modifié par The Razman, 27 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[Ieldra]

I see it as pretty significant - the most suggestive result would be "no more mass effect-based technology". Oops. No FTL. No biotics. No antigravity. Guns won't work. While in the high-EMS variants all these things are still functional.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 mars 2012 - 08:07 .

[The Razman]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I see it as pretty significant - the most suggestive result would be "no more mass effect-based technology". Oops. No FTL. No biotics. No antigravity. Guns won't work. While in the high-EMS variants all these things are still functional.

Logical deduction. I think I'd need to see a second piece of evidence to convince me it was an intentional thing though.

[Costin_Razvan]

Alistair Theirin wrote...

The relays have to be destroyed in the control ending. How else does the Normandy crash on a deserted planet if there is no energy to chase them?

Don't try to make sense of the Normandy scene. It doesn't have any.

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Alistair Theirin wrote...

The relays have to be destroyed in the control ending. How else does the Normandy crash on a deserted planet if there is no energy to chase them?

Don't try to make sense of the Normandy scene. It doesn't have any.

With that argument I could also say that Shep is dreaming and the Control ending is subconsciously admitting he likes BDSM, whereas Destroy symbolizes masochism and synthesis shows him as a loving man who only wants consensual sex.


Sorry but "doesnt have sense" is not a good argument.

[Cybernetic_Queen]

[quote]Costin_Razvan wrote...
The relays have to be destroyed in the control ending. How else does the Normandy crash on a deserted planet if there is no energy to chase them? [/quote]
[/quote]

Simple. The energy "chasing" them was whatever the Control blue energy was. The Normandy doesn't crash because it's hit by the red/green/blue beam, it crashes from extreme deceleration. Hell, it's lucky they didn't all die from Chernkov Radiation, but that's another matter.

[The Razman]

Cybernetic_Queen wrote...

Simple. The energy "chasing" them was whatever the Control blue energy was. The Normandy doesn't crash because it's hit by the red/green/blue beam, it crashes from extreme deceleration. Hell, it's lucky they didn't all die from Chernkov Radiation, but that's another matter.

Indeed. I don't think it's a leap of logic to assume that whatever the form of energy, channeling that kind of power through a mass relay corridor is going to have pretty serious effects for anything in transit.

Cherenkov Radiation is ... something I can't even wrap my head around factoring into this equasion.

Modifié par The Razman, 28 mars 2012 - 12:57 .

[The Razman]

Incidentally Bianco, if you change your mind on that open-minded adult discussion without assumption that whatever evidence you're in possession of is definitive and not open to debate ... you know where I am, friend. ;-)

[The Razman]

aLucidMind wrote...

The Relays are destroyed in every ending. The Citadel is destroyed in every ending except Control. This link plays every ending side-by-side so you everyone can make a quick comparision (less than 3 minutes long).
www.youtube.com/watch

Uh ... you may find that's already been posted.

By me.

In the very first post in this thread.

Along with an accompanying theory, which you may have liked to read.

<_<

[Sezarious]

The Razman wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It's just cobbled together stuff like the jungle planet. Of course it makes no sense that the relays have to be destroyed for Shepard to control the Reapers when starkids been doing it with the relays intact all along.

Which is why it never happened.

Control ending = relays intact, galactic civilisation is fine ... happy times for the galaxy.

Bioware just goofed in making it clear that was actually what was happening. I will bet £10 to anyone here that Bioware "clarify" this in whatever DLC they produce.

Ah I get it now.  You're just worried because you support the control ending!  You're scared that if this turns out to be the indoctrination theory that you failed.  I read your posts Razman!  You actually lost and failed your mission!