Yeah, too bad though that Indoctrination Theory is just a fan-created interpretation and the developers intended the events of the ending to be taken at face value.
True. It's remind me the tasks we have at school: "the curtains were blue - what the author wanted to say by this?". What they are blue, nothing more, nothin less.
Sheppard did his job, save the humanity. In the proccess he may died. Too bad, but get over it and move one. This is not a fairy tail after all where happy end is the only accepted.
While true, the inplication that the MAss Effect Gates went up like the Alpha Relay from "The Arrival" DLC for ME2 is utterly horrifying, because that thing went up like a supernova. And when you see them cooking off as the pulse goes up the Gate Network and detonates each of them, it looks like you did the Reapers job for them, utterly annihilating ervery species out there. And that was the Good ending...
@ mra4nii, yeah that bugged me out too how you just watched the whole chain reaction detonate across the whole galaxy map. (Regardless of what color pallete was chosen) It was a symphony of destruction, but fascinating. What happens now without Mass Relays I thought. It has the potential to set up some really interesting material.
'Brilliance' doesn't spring to mind when a last-minute attempt at a twist reveal with the Catalyst only serves to undo a lot of the set-up from earlier in the game/trilogy.
Nor does it when the motivation given by the Catalyst and the vague attempt at an origin directly contradict the similar conversation with Sovereign in ME1, but without any reasoning given as to why said contradiction happens. It's not a ret-con, it just smacks of (I presume) Mac Walters not doing his homework when taking over from Drew Karpyshyn as lead writer.
And let's not even begin to examine how a cursory look at the Catalyst's assertions proves them to be nothing more than very, very weak (and easily refuted) supposition at best, or that 'synthesis' in particular is clearly nonsense to anyone with the merest grasp of basic scientific principles.
In short? It's bad writing. It's an insult to the audience's intelligence. Worst of all, it's a proverbial 'damp squib' of a conclusion to a landmark series - one that really deserved to go out with an almighty 'bang'.
That's a really good breakdown and well thought out. Some of what I was saying above is what he was saying, though he takes it a few steps further. Both that guy and AngryJoe on YouTube combined would pretty much some up my viewpoint.
And despite all of this excellent analysis, I still get "You're just mad 'cause it wasn' t a happy ending."
Shepard resisting or giving in to indoctrination does not equal an ending.
I repeat, it DOES NOT EQUAL AN ENDING.
Its nothing more than a money grab to sell the true ending as a DLC or expansion and that pisses me off more than the nickel and diming EA has pulled in a past few years.
Manton-X2 wrote... And despite all of this excellent analysis, I still get "You're just msad 'cause it wasn' t a hcrappy ending."
*fixed*
...what will it take to convince you guys the ending is deeply flawed? What are you not seeing? Forget IT. Forget surprize ending. Forget the shock value and stimulation. How can you possibly defend something so riddled with holes, inconsistencies, discontinuities, and just plain WTF?? following the level of writing and dramatic content prevalent throughout the rest of the series. Please enlighten, O Enkindler.
@AtmosFear3 -
Always better to have few facts at hand before going on a rage. If things turn out as you suspect, feel free to flame - promise it will come off better than your present hissyfit. If he dlc or whatever turns the trick, BW will have my bag of rupees - but I wouldn't dream of trying to persuade you or anyone else if you object to marketing tactics, pricing or the color of Hudsons shoe laces...
So.. how many people would have bought the game if they told you before hand that the reapers win no matter what?
Me, because that would mean it wasn't a stereotypical "Good Guys win no matter what" ending.
I actually liked the ending. Don't care if they change it, but the lack of closure is actually what gives me the most closure. I want to know, but I like not knowing. Gives me an empty feeling inside, but probably one of the few "good" empty feelings i've ever had.
No closure means they can't do anything I wouldn't like with the characters. I chose synthesis because I had no idea what would come out. I felt like rolling the dice and was happy with not knowing. I won't be mad if they change the ending. I won't be mad if it stays the same. I would recommend this game to anybody who asks for it, and, well, that's it really. THE END.
Sometimes it's tough being a devoted fan. We can sometimes do too much justice in defense of our most beloved franchises. As a gamer, sci-fi enthusiast, comic book writer/Illustrator and old school Hop junkie, I too catch myself in the middle of the weirdest debates trying to convince people to "Look at the big picture" and force them to be ridiculously over analytical. I’ll be the first to admit I defended films like "Star Wars: Episode 1", argued that "Spiderman: Web of Shadows" was an incredible game, and made up every excuse in the book to why “The Matrix” Evolution ended perfectly--- only to walk away feeling like I was only making excuses for material I truly felt was a little lackluster.
With the Mass Effect trilogy behind us, I never felt the pressure to defend Bioware’s “narrative direction. Mass Effect was THE franchise that I thought was so truly groundbreaking, it didn’t need any further co-signing or “convincing ofawesomeness”. If you weren’t up on Mass Effect, too bad, your loss. It was the breakthrough that delivered something innovative into this generation of gaming where every gamer owned their own personal piece of Commander Shephard’s journey. While not perfect, (but damn close in my eyes) everyone had invested so deeply into Mass Effect that everyone’s story was special and unique.
In the first Mass Effect, I let Wrex live, saved the Rachni Queen, sacrificed Kaiden, (He was too needy and unstable to me) Romanced Ashley and spared the Council. In Mass Effect 2, I made Zaheed get his head out his a**, convinced Kasumi to destroy her memory box, stopped Mordin from killing his protégé, rewrote the heretics, romanced Miranda, made it out the Collector base with all 12 squad members alive and finally told the Illusive man to shove it while I detonated the whole joint. Those felt like they were all my decisions that reflected my persona. Hence Mass Effect 3: I dug up the Prothean Javik, freed the Rachni Queen, (again) Got punched in the grill by Jack (for breaking her heart and choosing Miranda in Mass Effect 2), even saved the cruel Ex-Cerberus employee (Project Overloard) who was running those Geth experiments on his little brother, Romanced Miranda (again) and finally, with a max of over 4000 EMS, I chose to destroy the Reapers once I got inside the arms of the Citadel. I also watched Shephard take that mysterious deep breath after all the cut scenes played out. From beginning to end, I found Mass Effect 3 to be an incredible journey that even surpasses Mass Effect 2 in terms of gameplay, emotion and sense of urgency.
However, Mass Effect 3’s final sequence still have many people angry, confused and perplexed---A brilliant dose of shock therapy that I didn’t even see coming but I truly, truly appreciate and embrace. This thread simply demonstrates( in my opinion) the beauty of Bioware’s narrative strategy. Not by leaving us hanging, but by actually doing what no game has compelled us to do on this kind ofmagnitude---and that’s to take it apart, analyze it, put it back together and try and make sense of it. I personally think the ending was brilliant and we FINALLY get to experience the final process of Shephard resisting or submitting to indoctrination during actual gameplay. This was not the Shephard I was used to. Bloody, letharthic, confused and out of his mind. He's now more vulunerable and human than he'd ever been throughout the entire trilogy. To me, that's so much more symbolic than a Boss Battle or quick time event. That's Bioware choosing not to take the easy route out, but Bioware showing the industry that their fans, us, the actual gamers, are mature, intelligent and can read between the lines.
Whether your opinion on the ending is neutral, opposite or downright angry, one thing’s for sure: We’re all still thinking and talking about it---and that’s exactly what Bioware intended for us to do while they cook up something even bigger within the months ahead. Please feel free to share to this thread by leaving your comments. As always be vocal but respectful; and tell us what your interpretation of Mass Effect 3’s final moments mean to you.
Peace
I'm with you...but I wish the others could understand...
Great, another IT'er who thinks that the community doesn't get it. Oh and he joined 3 days ago, so he's over two weeks behind, fantastic. Look friends, IT is a sound fan-made theory. Drop the pretension though, those who choose not to believe it aren't fools who "don't understand" the ending. They merely choose to take the ending for what it is: Rubbish. If IT is true, cool. If it isn't a lot of you smug IT'ers are going to be eating some significant humble pie. Remember that it is better to be accepting of all viewpoints, instead of proclaiming yours as the best and that everyone else is inept at comprehension.
This belongs in the Story and Campaign Discussion forums.
Smells like a PR/marketing/damage control post, since over 90% of the fans (almost 70k votes) have an issue with the ending: http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/
yeah right the poll says so, 70K out of how many million buyers, 90% out of 70K players doesnt mean squat especially when most of the 70K are eager to shove there opinion down BW's throat...
Wonder how many of those voters were looking for such a poll, my tip is on 90% or so^^
I was dissapointed too, but that happend to me on more than one occasion, books, movies, tv-shows, almost everything i care about when it comes down to entertainment, guess an ending never rly satisfy...
Modifié par Babylon Rocker, 29 mars 2012 - 02:04 .
id have an easier time putting together a puzzle thats missing peices, includes other peices, im blindfolded, and i dont have hands, and someone punched me in the balls while it was happening.
This belongs in the Story and Campaign Discussion forums.
Smells like a PR/marketing/damage control post, since over 90% of the fans (almost 70k votes) have an issue with the ending: http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ [/quote]
yeah right the poll says so, 70K out of how many million buyers, 90% out of 70K players doesnt mean squat especially when most of the 70K are eager to shove there opinion down BW's throat...
Wonder how many of those voters were looking for such a poll, my tip is on 90% or so^^
I was dissapointed too, but that happend to me on more than one occasion, books, movies, tv-shows, almost everything i care about when it comes down to entertainment, guess an ending never rly satisfy...[/quote]
Most disappointed customers just go away and don’t bother purchasing DLCs. April will either explain the ending to most of the disappointed customers or lose many of them as future potential customers. This business needs preorders, not players purchasing games second hand. My guess is you are trying to say that BioWare doesn’t need 70K customers because they sold millions. Yes, maybe BW already feels this way. Only time will tell.
Most disappointed customers just go away and don’t bother purchasing DLCs. April will either explain the ending to most of the disappointed customers or lose many of them as future potential customers. This business needs preorders, not players purchasing games second hand.
My guess is you are trying to say that BioWare doesn’t need 70K customers because they sold millions. Yes, maybe BW already feels this way. Only time will tell.
The Spamming Troll wrote... id have an easier time putting together a puzzle thats missing peices, includes other peices, im blindfolded, and i dont have hands, and someone punched me in the balls while it was happening.
nah what im trying to say that ppl are pissed because the ending isnt as epicly awesome as they excpected...which i guess it just cant be due to high excpectations..
All the crap im hearing about how awesome ME is until the last 15 minutes, ppl complaining about plotholes and whatnot, gimme a break, there are plotholes all over the place in all 3 games not just the 3rd...
Im pretty sure that every possible ending BW could've come up with would result in such a ****storm from a "minority" of gamers. A "definite" ending to series with millions of players is bound to hugely dissapoint some of them, 70K out of 3.5 million players or so showing their anger in that poll? thats a wooping 2% give or take. And most of them WILL buy DLC and following ME games even if they right now say they wont, whom are they kidding...
Oh and what ive personal experienced with ME3, more than a few of my rl buddies played the whole series and only 1 is raging because of the end like u can see it here in the forums, a few are dissapointed but not to a degree that they go all internetz about it and the rest is like "meh not great but could be worse i guess"
Modifié par Babylon Rocker, 29 mars 2012 - 03:15 .
sure - but not all of us IT Kool-Aid addicts don't get that the end is crappy - what I don't get is how the OP and others can think the end is anywhere near the calibre of the rest of the game - but I have no problem with them liking it or feeling it rings their bells. Like they say, there's a lid for every pot.
BW would be insane not to go for something like IT that can hook onto the exisitng game without alteration - that doesn't mean they will, nor does require that they planned that way.
Great, another IT'er who thinks that the community doesn't get it. Oh and he joined 3 days ago, so he's over two weeks behind, fantastic. Look friends, IT is a sound fan-made theory. Drop the pretension though, those who choose not to believe it aren't fools who "don't understand" the ending. They merely choose to take the ending for what it is: Rubbish. If IT is true, cool. If it isn't a lot of you smug IT'ers are going to be eating some significant humble pie. Remember that it is better to be accepting of all viewpoints, instead of proclaiming yours as the best and that everyone else is inept at comprehension.
Okaaaay, Let's go.
I appriciate you trying really hard to get your shine on, but I'll start by saying this: Critical thinking is a great thing to practice. You should really go back, and fairly look at all of my post before goin' on some Mountain Dew outburst. All my post mention things like, "My opinion, I'm no smarter than anyone else, and so on. I welcome people to disagree with me. And I welcome ALL viewpoints--don't get it twisted.
So while It's great to see you try and rally the troops by saying things like, "Hey Friends!!" "He works in I.T.!!" He just joined 3 days ago!!! "I'm really angry but sleepy!!!" (okay I threw that last one in so you can GET THE PICTURE) just stop and ask yourself, "Where am I really going with this?" Because it just looks silly and basically seems like your throwing a tantrum.
nah what im trying to say that ppl are pissed because the ending isnt as epicly awesome as they excpected...which i guess it just cant be due to high excpectations..
All the crap im hearing about how awesome ME is until the last 15 minutes, ppl complaining about plotholes and whatnot, gimme a break, there are plotholes all over the place in all 3 games not just the 3rd...
Im pretty sure that every possible ending BW could've come up with would result in such a ****storm from a "minority" of gamers. A "definite" ending to series with millions of players is bound to hugely dissapoint some of them, 70K out of 3.5 million players or so showing their anger in that poll? thats a wooping 2% give or take. And most of them WILL buy DLC and following ME games even if they right now say they wont, whom are they kidding...
Oh and what ive personal experienced with ME3, more than a few of my rl buddies played the whole series and only 1 is raging because of the end like u can see it here in the forums, a few are dissapointed but not to a degree that they go all internetz about it and the rest is like "meh not great but could be worse i guess"
I have seen many posts saying they would be happy with Indoctrination Theory. They are just looking for Clarification. Others are upset because if the Mass Relays really exploded like shown on the video than the explosion had the energy of a Super Nova per Mass Effect information. Now they think Shepard just killed more than the Reapers could. Shepard just got plunked by BW. The Player is upset because they wasted there time getting 7500 War Assets. The bottom line is the ending is clear as mud.
Hi, have you seen this vid? Well worth it - I'd be interested in your views on the quality of the end afterwards, quite entertaining, btw.
Whaddup Someone else,
Yeah! I checked this vid out! The dude who put this together was funny, but he really made some valid points. I disagree and I still like the ending---But I don't think he's crazy at all. I like this dude because he even pointed out things Bioware did perfectly like the Tuchunka level in terms of narrative coherence and gameplay structure. When he talked about the ending, (which was funny how he did the audio) I actually saw his point. He's saying, they dropped basically everything. What kind of Genre they were, losing focus on key characters, the balance of the main plot, etc. He's being witty, but clearly stresses why he thought they dropped the ball.
That said, this is where it becomes scary: He says he realizes they are the creators of the game, but then he jokingly gives suggestions on what they can do to improve the ending which was a complete re-write with a list of things. This is where this becomes a general battle for ownership over Mass Effect. Who owns it? Bioware or the fans? Feedback is ALWAYS good and Bioware is listening which is what they should do. But with all the control and story variations we were given over the years, was this bound to happen sooner or later no matter what installment of Mass Effect came next? What if Bioware completely surrenders and caves in from all the cupcakes, outrage and suggestions and end up making any changes even worse than the original? They'll be finished. They got it bad now, but that would be the nail in the coffin.
But in the end, I hear him loud and clear cuz' he said he wouldn't be doin' the vid in the first place if he didn't care about the series. Whether you like the ending or not , I respect where he's coming from and I can't hate on' em for that.
Yeah, he sounds like he knows a thing or two about the writer's craft - and he's not preachy about it at all -
As I've tried to make clear, a subjective appreciation of the ending is one thing - beauty being in eye etc, and not a matter for anyone else's 2cents - but I think he makes more than a fair case as to why the ending falls short of more objective intellectual and aesthetic criteria - and why given our love for the series some of us are so badly PO'd - absence of puppies and posies notwithstanding
LOL - Death by Cupcake - wonder if it would work on the reapers....?
Sure, everyone has their own ideas as to the ending - and agree absolutely it is BW's job - just wish they'd really get at it, and give us the wherewithall to really finish our individual iterations.
Yeah, I think they will. I'm glad though, cuz even though I was cool with the ending, I believe BW will really go hard on making things complete for everybody. There's nothing wrong with a little pressure and positive criticism from the fans.
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