193 réponses à ce sujet

[Cheiron the Centaur]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...
I'll repeat, when you signed the ORIGINAL EULA it clearly states that it's subject to change. Everyone was fine with it then, but now that's it changed people are upset. Makes no sense. Who cares if BioWare or EA accesses my computer IP? What are they going to do with it? Nothing. Give EA/BioWare a bit more credit than that. I highly doubt they're taking information with malicious intent.

Read my whole post before you comment on it.

I did read your whole post, but the fact that the original EULA is subject to change doesn't mean they can just put anything in there. Another example: What if they changed their EULA to state that all the DLC that you already purchased (under the old agreement) would be provided to you for a period of 1 month only, after that you have to pay again to access/play the DLC? Would you still say  "ah well, I don't care about EULAs, just click accept. After all, they already said they could change it!"

In other words: how much of their user agreements can they change until you start caring about them?
For me, that point has been reached with these changes.

[marshalleck]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

click accept or don't, my god people

Thank you.

I get the feeling some people on this forum collect their stool in jars for later study "just to make sure."

[Cheiron the Centaur]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...
Extremely personal information is actually diving into your computer and logging passwords for accounts which aren't relevant to EA. And they're not doing that.

What you consider extremely personal is not necessarily what others feel about that. Actually personal information can be any kind of information related to your personal location or your personal behavior.
And the combination of zip code, ip address (which is unique and rarely changes in my country), mac address (which is unique and never changes!), hardware and software (which may include all non-EA software that you have installed) can definitely be used to uniquely identify you, and to gather all kinds of information about your behavior, your interests, etc.
And as stated before, I do not have a problem with them using this information solely for the purpose of verifying my rights to the DLC I purchased. I do however have a problem with the fact that they give themselves (and undefined 3rd parties) the rights to do all kinds of other things with this data.

As stated, you may not care what they do with this data of yours, but I do.

[marshalleck]

Cheiron the Centaur wrote...

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...
Extremely personal information is actually diving into your computer and logging passwords for accounts which aren't relevant to EA. And they're not doing that.

What you consider extremely personal is not necessarily what others feel about that. Actually personal information can be any kind of information related to your personal location or your personal behavior.
And the combination of zip code, ip address (which is unique and rarely changes in my country), mac address (which is unique and never changes!), hardware and software (which may include all non-EA software that you have installed) can definitely be used to uniquely identify you, and to gather all kinds of information about your behavior, your interests, etc.
And as stated before, I do not have a problem with them using this information solely for the purpose of verifying my rights to the DLC I purchased. I do however have a problem with the fact that they give themselves (and undefined 3rd parties) the rights to do all kinds of other things with this data.

As stated, you may not care what they do with this data of yours, but I do.

then click decline

oh wait you already did, why are you still complaining? don't bother answering, it's a rhetorical question

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 décembre 2009 - 09:38 .

[Matthew Young CT]

Cheiron the Centaur wrote...

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...
Extremely personal information is actually diving into your computer and logging passwords for accounts which aren't relevant to EA. And they're not doing that.

What you consider extremely personal is not necessarily what others feel about that. Actually personal information can be any kind of information related to your personal location or your personal behavior.
And the combination of zip code, ip address (which is unique and rarely changes in my country), mac address (which is unique and never changes!), hardware and software (which may include all non-EA software that you have installed) can definitely be used to uniquely identify you, and to gather all kinds of information about your behavior, your interests, etc.
And as stated before, I do not have a problem with them using this information solely for the purpose of verifying my rights to the DLC I purchased. I do however have a problem with the fact that they give themselves (and undefined 3rd parties) the rights to do all kinds of other things with this data.

As stated, you may not care what they do with this data of yours, but I do.

None of that information is used except in aggregate. This makes it impersonal. No company that is sold/given that information in aggregate can identify you.

I'll never understand why anyone gives two hoots if a company knows what programs you have installed and what your interests are. You should be happy to tell them, to help influence them into making stuff you like.

[wanderon]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Well, there is that one line about EA claiming your immortal soul for all of eternity or something like that.

Thats OK as long they understand they'll have to get it from Bank of America....

[Jonfon_ire]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Well, there is that one line about EA claiming your immortal soul for all of eternity or something like that.

Hey, the EA execs have to eat too you know. It's not their fault that they can only survive by eating the souls of the unwary. Mine will probably give them indigestion anyway.

[fkirenicus]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

None of that information is used except in aggregate. This makes it impersonal. No company that is sold/given that information in aggregate can identify you.

I'll never understand why anyone gives two hoots if a company knows what programs you have installed and what your interests are. You should be happy to tell them, to help influence them into making stuff you like.

Sorry, but I still don't see why EA needs to know what other software is installed on my computer. I also don't see the need that they know how my network at home is set up.
I purchase their game and the DLC I want - but only as long as my privacy is accepted. If my money isn't enough and they want control on my life outside of their game as well, I'll have to say "**** you, sirs". And yes, I'm serious.

If I bring this EULA to the National Data Inspectorate in my country they'll most likely say "don't agree to this - this will function just like spyware".

Modifié par fkirenicus, 02 décembre 2009 - 11:11 .

[DeathTyrant]

I hesitated the other day when it popped up, and read it. I'm not too bothered about my ip/mac address or hardware being recorded (I let Steam do this, as do many people), but I'm not too keen on sending out info on what programs I have installed. Not that I actually have anything 'dodgy', but I don't think that is any of their business.



Can't see why they didn't have tick-boxes to choose what info to send out and what not to, that way they could avoid this. Chances are 90% of the people would have ticked those boxes happily, and those that would not have would still be happy.

Instead there is a (small) group) of angry and vocal people.

[MR-9]

The EULA is basically asking you, do you want to play our game by our rules? Click Yes/No. You click no, you don't get to play.

[JackDresden]

mmmbeerz wrote...

I have explicitly rejected the terms and conditions several times when I log into dragon age. But each time it simply reprompts me to "accept" the terms.

I logged back into my account online for the sole purpose of posting this question.

Anyone else reject the terms? How can I continue to play the game under the original terms that I purchased the game? I'm not a huge fan of EULAs, but I'm not a fan of EULAs that change. I'm considering trying to return the game unless someone can explain how to stop being prompted by the new terms and allow me to reject them.

I think you'll find part of the EULA you agreed to when you bought the game allowed them to change it. So if you wish to carryon playing I think you expected to accept.

[fkirenicus]

MR-9 wrote...

The EULA is basically asking you, do you want to play our game by our rules? Click Yes/No. You click no, you don't get to play.

No, the EULA is basically encouraging you to consider getting a pirated version of the game and use that instead of the copy you purchased like a decent customer - only to discover that EA uses their game much like the way other hackers do with their software.

I have no problem whatsoever understanding why EA want to protect their intellectual property, but I have absolutely no respect for them wanting to monitor how my network is set up and what applications or games I use outside of EA's said intellectual property.  

Modifié par fkirenicus, 02 décembre 2009 - 10:21 .

[menasure]

eula's have very questionable legal value by itself but the interesting part about contracts in general is that in countries with a sane legal attitude you simply are not obliged to uphold parts of a contract if it is against the law itself, whether you signed it or not.

however why anyone would step to court for all but the most important and expensive contracts is beyond me because selling stuff is a commercial business and one thing no normal company would do is ***** too many customers off because it hurts their reason for existence.

[JackDresden]

nisallik wrote...

*shrug* I only read a few EULAs/ToS, but normally only from online retail sites. For games, it seems that every time it is updated, patched, etc. you need to accept a new ToS/EULA for the most current updated game. I think the ToS/EULA are only valid through the version of the game that you originally accepted, if it is updated... it is no longer valid and you need to reaccept the ToS/EULA for the updated version.

Exactly if they update any exe it invalidates you previous signing since it's actually a different bit of software technically so they have to ask you to sign again.

[Maria Caliban]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Well, there is that one line about EA claiming your immortal soul for all of eternity or something like that.

That's just lawyerize, don't worry. It's standard in every EULA.

[Wolfva2]

marshalleck wrote...

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

click accept or don't, my god people

Thank you.

I get the feeling some people on this forum collect their stool in jars for later study "just to make sure."

Always a good idea.  I once found corn in mine, but hadn't aten corn in weeks.  Go figure.  And yes, if you lent me an ear, then there is a kernal of truth in that.

[fkirenicus]

GraniteWardrobe wrote...

DA:O is 'spyware'

I am sad to say but I have to agree on this.

[JackDresden]

MachDelta wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...
That arguement wont fly for PC games, the EULAs specifically cover the use of the software.  You don't only  buy the box and disk, it is implicit that you are paying for functioning software   using your arguement I could put a blank disc in a case and call it "OMG Amazing swordz and boobz 2" then when people tried to say they got ripped off I could say 'nope, you only bought the box and disk, no software.'

I believe that would be covered under false advertising (what was on the box was not in the box) and not a EULA.
I think the hair we're trying to split here is that purcahsing the game box/cd/etc implies that it provides you access to the software (since you technicaly own the CD key and can resell or transfer it along with the physical media), but it has never actually implied that you own said software. Because if you owned it, it would be yours to profit from or disassemble or resell derivitive works from (etc etc), and EA wouldn't like that very much.

Necessary evil? Perhaps.

Actually if you read the box the game came in at least in the UK it does say under the system spec in small capitals "ACCEPTANCE  OF END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT REQUIRED TO PLAY" so I think saying that on the box covers them.

[astrallite]

People are always high and mighty until "it happens to them," after which they get awfully quiet, like Dick Cheney and his daughter.

[JackDresden]

Seifz wrote...

This is my favorite part of the EULA. It's not in the Privacy Policy, but it's something that you must accept to play the game anyway.

In exchange for use of the Software, and to the extent that your contributions through use of the Software give rise to any copyright interest, you hereby grant EA an exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, fully transferable and sub-licensable worldwide right and license to use your contributions in any way and for any purpose in connection with the Software and related goods and services including the rights to reproduce, copy, adapt, modify, perform, display, publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise communicate to the public by any means whether now known or unknown and distribute your contributions without any further notice or compensation to you of any kind for the whole duration of protection granted to intellectual property rights by applicable laws and international conventions. You hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to EA’s and other players’ use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Software and related goods and services under applicable law. The license grant to EA, and the above waiver of any applicable moral rights, survives any termination of this License.

I'm 100% certain that they couldn't enforce that clause anywhere in the US. So evil.

That's been in the License agreement for almost every game with a toolset for years. It is worth thinking about if you have your own intellectual property and wish to make a campaign around it. But it's understandable without this other games companies could use their engine and toolset to make games and pay them not a penny.

[JackDresden]

Cheiron the Centaur wrote...

Thanks for that link, MachDelta. That looks a lot like part of the new user agreement (effective Nov 16) that we now see in DAO (though there are still several sections missing).

For what I am referring to, see for example section IV a ("What Types of Non-Personal Information Does EA Collect?") and V b ("EA will never share your personal information with third parties without your consent. We may, however, share non-personal data in the aggregate (in a form that does not personally identify you) with third parties.").

Given what EA consider "non-personal information" (according to IV a), I have absolutely no faith in that V b part!

" aggregate" means they won't share the data itself like your PC has 2gb memory, but they will share totals like 30% of our customers have 2gb memory. I'm not at all worried about that. I work in IT so I know the sort of thing they are talking about and aggregate data cannot identify anyone.

[JackDresden]

GraniteWardrobe wrote...

Wake up, people.

There is a proverb "He who pays the piper, calls the tune". Think about it. We pay EA, not the other way around. That means that EA is our servant, not our lord and master. They work for us. So we dictate the "terms of employment", not they. If they don't like our terms, they are welcome to go find someone else to give them money if they can.

and if we don't link their terms we are welcome to not play their games, it works both ways they supply a product and we buy if we want to, they aren't our servants.