193 réponses à ce sujet

[Tosheroon]

DeathTyrant wrote...

I hesitated the other day when it popped up, and read it. I'm not too bothered about my ip/mac address or hardware being recorded (I let Steam do this, as do many people), but I'm not too keen on sending out info on what programs I have installed. Not that I actually have anything 'dodgy', but I don't think that is any of their business. 

I am sceptical of EA's ability to collect information about programs installed on either Vista or Win7, unless I run DA:O or the EA Shared Game Component with Administrator privileges. Surely if they wished to access the specific areas of my registry to read such information and relay it back, the UAC prompt would ask for Administrator approval before allowing such an action?

Or then again, perhaps such details can be circumvented by how their software operates? Does anyone have technical authority on the matter?

Although in reality, my mobile phone provider is much more invasive by default than anything EA is possibly doing through this EULA. Now where's my tinfoil hat... 

[Cheiron the Centaur]

JackDresden wrote...
" aggregate" means they won't share the data itself like your PC has 2gb memory, but they will share totals like 30% of our customers have 2gb memory. I'm not at all worried about that. I work in IT so I know the sort of thing they are talking about and aggregate data cannot identify anyone.

Thanks for the explanation, Jack. Unfortunately, strictly by the letter, this agreement does give them the right to collect and to pass on all that  "non-personal" information about my location and my system, even if it is in the form of  "0.00001% of our customers have an ip address of X, a mac address of Y, and have, next to EA software, such and such other software installed". Which is none of EA's business to collect in the first place!

[fkirenicus]

GraniteWardrobe wrote...

It circumvents your windows security by installing a service (daupdater) that runs in the background with administrator rights. It has access to everything without needing your explicit permission.

So THAT's what daupdater.exe actually does? Seriously? Damn, I'm disappointed in EA and BioWare if that's the case.

[Matthew Young CT]

Cheiron the Centaur wrote...

JackDresden wrote...
" aggregate" means they won't share the data itself like your PC has 2gb memory, but they will share totals like 30% of our customers have 2gb memory. I'm not at all worried about that. I work in IT so I know the sort of thing they are talking about and aggregate data cannot identify anyone.

Thanks for the explanation, Jack. Unfortunately, strictly by the letter, this agreement does give them the right to collect and to pass on all that  "non-personal" information about my location and my system, even if it is in the form of  "0.00001% of our customers have an ip address of X, a mac address of Y, and have, next to EA software, such and such other software installed". Which is none of EA's business to collect in the first place!

No, if they tried that they would get laughed out of court. Their "business"? You don't have to give it to them, you know. I can't comprehend why you wouldn't want to, but you don't have to.

You guys are so paranoid. As if EA actually cares about you. They care about what their their customers' PC hardware is like, so they can design future games with that hardware in mind. They care about %s of people who purchase DLC in different areas with different pricing. They need to know what % of their customers have DX11 hardware, so they can decide when to make DX11 games. And so on.

[Cheiron the Centaur]

@Matthew Young CT: then they should give me an option in the Dragon Age settings, in which I can select which types of data the program will collect and share with EA (just like I can now select which types of gameplay information I want to update on my online profile). Then I can provide them with the information I want to share, while keeping the rest to myself.

[fkirenicus]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

As if EA actually cares about you.

You pretty much hit the spot there, yes.

I'm "paranoid" because I don't know what they actually are collecting - or how they do it. I'm not that a computer techie.

I have no problem - in fact I perfectly understand that content I create with the toolset is in fact not my property (other than intellectual, maybe) and thus I cannot sell it and make money out of it - accepting a EULA that states that I've purchased a license to use EA's software. And I neither have an interest in nor the skills to reverse engineer or otherwise hack the software to create a pirated version - I just want to play the game as a "good" customer and enjoy the great stuff BioWare create - including the DLC I find interesting. So far I'm quite pleased, and am/was planning on buying Return to Ostagar once it is released.

I have however great problems accepting a EULA that grants the service provider full access to my computer system and can collect information that neither is EA's property nor have no bearing on the relation between me as a customer that has purchased a license to use software from EA as a service provider.

What other software I use is - frankly - none of EA's damn business.

Modifié par fkirenicus, 02 décembre 2009 - 11:56 .

[Tosheroon]

fkirenicus wrote...

GraniteWardrobe wrote...

It circumvents your windows security by installing a service (daupdater) that runs in the background with administrator rights. It has access to everything without needing your explicit permission.

So THAT's what daupdater.exe actually does? Seriously? Damn, I'm disappointed in EA and BioWare if that's the case.

Actually, daupdater is not set as an Administrator level executable on my system and only runs as a service when Dragon Age is run, as it is set to Manual in services. However, the main purpose of DAUpdater is to verify your DLC or install user modules manually. It is not a sneaky, witch thief device that EA runs continually in your background services to monitor your every waking action. 

[Matthew Young CT]

fkirenicus wrote...
I'm "paranoid" because I don't know what they actually are collecting - or how they do it. I'm not that a computer techie.

Well they want to know your hardware obviously. If they find that most people with DA have old hardware and are playing on low settings, then they know not to make future games like Crysis.

Other than that, they probably want to know things like what other games you have installed. Are you an action gamer? RPGs only? Again, helps with future game design and advertising.

I have great problems accepting a EULA that grants the service provider full access to my computer system

It does not do that.

and can collect information that neither is EA's property nor have no bearing on the relation between me as a customer that has purchased a license to use software from EA as a service provider.

It doesn't have too much of a relation (it isn't nothing, if they find almost everyone playing on easy, they know the game is too hard, for example. Or vice versa). It has plenty of relation to future games, and you should be happy to share that information. It influences them into making games you'll like

What other software I use is - frankly - none of EA's damn business.

I guess. Who cares though? What bad thing can come of them knowing? I can think of good things coming, can't think of anything bad.

[fkirenicus]

Lobsang1979 wrote...

Actually, daupdater is not set as an Administrator level executable on my system and only runs as a service when Dragon Age is run, as it is set to Manual in services. However, the main purpose of DAUpdater is to verify your DLC or install user modules manually. It is not a sneaky, witch thief device that EA runs continually in your background services to monitor your every waking action. 

Yeah, thought so. So I hadn't bothered that much about it.
However, I want to be able to play game offline (am for example celebrating christmas in a place with no internet connection), and got the advice to set daupdater.exe to start automatically on windows startup - which I did.
I'll disable it again ASAP (not at a DA:O computer now) if it does in fact collect information about my system on things that have nothing to do with DA:O and/or my relation to EA as a customer that has purchased a license to use their software.

[fkirenicus]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

fkirenicus wrote...
I'm "paranoid" because I don't know what they actually are collecting - or how they do it. I'm not that a computer techie.

Well they want to know your hardware obviously. If they find that most people with DA have old hardware and are playing on low settings, then they know not to make future games like Crysis.

Why? When NWN2 came out I purchased a new computer specifically for that (I had an old I purchased to be able to play NWN1....). Do EA think people don't upgrade their hardware every now and then??

Other than that, they probably want to know things like what other games you have installed. Are you an action gamer? RPGs only? Again, helps with future game design and advertising.

None of EA's business. I purchased DA:O because I want to play it, that should be enough for them.

I have great problems accepting a EULA that grants the service provider full access to my computer system

It does not do that.

and can collect information that neither is EA's property nor have no bearing on the relation between me as a customer that has purchased a license to use software from EA as a service provider.

It doesn't have too much of a relation (it isn't nothing, if they find almost everyone playing on easy, they know the game is too hard, for example. Or vice versa). It has plenty of relation to future games, and you should be happy to share that information. It influences them into making games you'll like

Anything DA:O related they are welcome to collect. No problem. I fail to see that they need to collect my IP and MAC addresses or e.g. what version of Microsoft Word I use, or my amount of RAM or which graphics card I have for this, however!

What other software I use is - frankly - none of EA's damn business.

I guess. Who cares though? What bad thing can come of them knowing? I can think of good things coming, can't think of anything bad.

I care. I don't like spyware, be it from a (previously) respected vendor or a 15-year old hacker.

Modifié par fkirenicus, 02 décembre 2009 - 12:10 .

[Matthew Young CT]

Why? When NWN2 came out I purchased a new computer specifically for that (I had an old I purchased to be able to play NWN1....). Do EA think people don't upgrade their hardware every now and then??

Of course they know that. They know how often people do it, and they know what hardware they upgrade from, and to. They know these things because they get the information from their customers. This lets them aim much more accurately for the level of hardware their customers have.

None of EA's business. I purchased DA:O because I want to play it, that should be enough for them.

I admit I don't really understand this "business" stuff. It's information. Why do you want it to be private? It helps them make games you'll like, and there's no downside at all.

Anything DA:O related they are welcome to collect. No problem. I fail to see that they need to collect my IP and MAC addresses or e.g. what version of Microsoft Word I use, or my amount of RAM or which graphics card I have for this, however!

Well the IP thing is funny, since they know your IP the moment you log in. Or visit these forums. IPs are bloody easy to get. Your MAC is pretty irrelevant, I don't know why they'd want that. You have no reason to care if they know it though.

I care. I don't like spyware, be it from a (previously) respected vendor or a 15-year old hacker.

Why do you care? Again, I've explained the plus side to telling them. What's the downside? Plus they don't care about you. They care about overall trends. I highly, highly doubt they even bother attaching any of the information they collect to specific users. It's pointless.

[fkirenicus]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

Why do you care?

Because I don't share that fascinating view some have about data storage and surveillance, that "if you don't break the law you have nothing to fear" ****. I grew up in a society where you were innocent until the opposite is proved, not guilty until you prove your innocence!

I have no intention whatsoever to break the game security for personal gain, I would expect the same courtesy from EA concerning my privacy and rights as a customer that have no affiliation with EA other than that I've purchased a license to use their software.
Anything that can make DA:O better they can collect (as well as all information I agree to share), but my other interests and system settings they have no right to gather information on.

If I am to participate in a survey I want to do it of my own free will. I am deeply concerned that EA gathers information about me and my system that has nothing to do with DA:O, or information I don't explicitly accept to share with them. I don't want to be used as a metric by EA as to what kind of games they should make to earn more money. I purchase the games I like, and EA has no business in gathering any information about what's on my computer other than that I've purchased a license from EA for.

Also, if they don't use the info - why do they collect it?

Modifié par fkirenicus, 02 décembre 2009 - 01:24 .

[Koralis]

Seifz wrote...

This is my favorite part of the EULA. It's not in the Privacy Policy, but it's something that you must accept to play the game anyway.

In exchange for use of the Software, and to the extent that your contributions through use of the Software give rise to any copyright interest, you hereby grant EA an exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, fully transferable and sub-licensable worldwide right and license to use your contributions in any way and for any purpose in connection with the Software and related goods and services including the rights to reproduce, copy, adapt, modify, perform, display, publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise communicate to the public by any means whether now known or unknown and distribute your contributions without any further notice or compensation to you of any kind for the whole duration of protection granted to intellectual property rights by applicable laws and international conventions. You hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to EA’s and other players’ use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Software and related goods and services under applicable law. The license grant to EA, and the above waiver of any applicable moral rights, survives any termination of this License.

I'm 100% certain that they couldn't enforce that clause anywhere in the US. So evil.

Ah,,, the clause which basically says that you don't own anything in conjunction with the program, whether that's postings here, or creating mods in the toolset.  Ie.  EA has the option to sell your work and you get nothing for it and can not deny them?

Sure, they MAY choose to compensate you, but they have no obligation to and have no bargaining power.

[Chris H. Fleming]

Have your cat or dog accept the EULA.

[r3voLoL]

fkirenicus wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

Why do you care?

Because I don't share that fascinating view some have about data storage and surveillance, that "if you don't break the law you have nothing to fear" ****. I grew up in a society where you were innocent until the opposite is proved, not guilty until you prove your innocence!

I have no intention whatsoever to break the game security for personal gain, I would expect the same courtesy from EA concerning my privacy and rights as a customer that have no affiliation with EA other than that I've purchased a license to use their software.
Anything that can make DA:O better they can collect (as well as all information I agree to share), but my other interests and system settings they have no right to gather information on.

If I am to participate in a survey I want to do it of my own free will. I am deeply concerned that EA gathers information about me and my system that has nothing to do with DA:O, or information I don't explicitly accept to share with them. I don't want to be used as a metric by EA as to what kind of games they should make to earn more money. I purchase the games I like, and EA has no business in gathering any information about what's on my computer other than that I've purchased a license from EA for.

Also, if they don't use the info - why do they collect it?

Obvious troll is trolling

No really, get the f**k over it

[fkirenicus]

r3voLoL wrote...

Obvious troll is trolling

No really, get the f**k over it

This is  not trolling. I am most serious about this.
If you don't care about this, fine. But I do.

[r3voLoL]

fkirenicus wrote...

r3voLoL wrote...

Obvious troll is trolling

No really, get the f**k over it

This is  not trolling. I am most serious about this.
If you don't care about this, fine. But I do.

Then uninstall the game....

And while your at it, you should probablly unhook your ethernet cable from your PC... just to make sure.

[Cheiron the Centaur]

r3voLoL wrote...
Obvious troll is trolling

No really, get the f**k over it

I agree, r3voLoL, your own post is obvious trolling and totally unneccessary.

fkirenicus, on the other hand, is making a very sensible and well argumented point, and I agree with it completely.
And I see absolutely no reason for your childish reactions to it.

Modifié par Cheiron the Centaur, 02 décembre 2009 - 01:41 .

[r3voLoL]

Well continue whining and b*tching about something you cannot change, have fun!



Ill just go play the game and not worry about a bunch of BS that cannot be changed

[pathenry]

Its interesting how well these evil policies have worked on people. Not only do they happily and mindlessly give out their own personal information to anything that demands it, but they are actually angered to hear that someone else won't.

[Cheiron the Centaur]

pathenry wrote...


Its interesting how well these evil policies have worked on people. Not only do they happily and mindlessly give out their own personal information to anything that demands it, but they are actually angered to hear that someone else won't.

  spot on!

[Raziel317]

To be honest there is nothing EA can collect from your PC that fifty other pieces of software or your last 10 website visits hasn't already shared with the world. No matter what protection we put on our machines, companies will find ways of accessing it. The only way to make sure you don't loose any information is to not play any games, not use Windows and not have and internet connection.