244 réponses à ce sujet

[Turkeysock]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

3. He gained his "inhuman" eyes through Reaper contact

5. Again, no one has used the crucible before, so no one can truly know what it could do. Why you keep ignoring that, which is a FACT, is beyond me. The Prothean VI says that the Control group sabatouged their Crucible before it was ever completed. We don't know if this happened every cycle, but we can stipulate that similar events have happened.

3. Any real source that will confirm this assumption?
5. Actually Crucible was used before (we can even asume that it was used many times) as was stated in game, it was never enough, thats why they had to add The Catalyst (ie. something that would magnify power of the Crucible)

3. ME comic Evolution.

5. We don't know about other cycles, but the Prothean VI states that they never used it, their information of the Catalyst came from long before their cycle. And at most, it's only a theory. So it's rather safe to assume that the Reapers were unaware of what the catalyst truly was.

[TheGreenAlloy]

Oh, OP, so you think it's wrong because it can't be disproven? WAT

According to the theory, everything after the blast is indoctrination.

[NM_Che56]

You do not understand.

Assertion: The proof that Shepard is not indoctrinated is that the prothean AI does not detect indoctrination in her, and because she is able to open the citadel, the necessary and final step in order to activate the crucible. That is the ultimate test  that TIM fails. (neutral option - TIM literally cannot complete the final step, and this is how he realises he is indoctrinated.) [I have quoted the VI exactly in this thread - there is no evidence to believe his detection system is imperfect. That is an assumption made by the theory people and labeled as proof.]

Refutation: There is a difference between being indoctrinated and going through it.  IT does not say he WAS indoctrinated.  IT states that the Reapers are TRYING to indoctrinate him. 

Assertion: Whenever Shepard is being controlled there are wavy lines in her vision. (Like when she is forced to shoot Anderston). The wavy lines are gone completely when TIM dies.

Refutation: The wavy lines are like clinching a fist to hold onto something tighter.  ...but you can still have a grip without giving a death grip.  Like .38 Special said, Hold on loosely.

Assertion: If Shepard were truly indoctrinated, she would not be able to destroy the reapers (in the same way TIM could not interact with the citadel control panel). Because the red (destroy) option exists is again proof that she is not indoctrinated.

Refutation: See first one.  Shep is not yet indoctrinated.  If Shep chooses green or blue, then that completes the process.  Also, the IT is that everything from the run to the beam forward is the hallucination.

[DraCZeQQ]

Still Javik would have detected progressing Indoctrination process with his touch as well as Liara while she gives you her gift ...

[FemmeShep]

So, no one wants to tackle my comment on page 9, about how they would even implement this with DLC?

I still dont see how it's very practical/likely.

[Cazlee]

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

Oh, OP, so you think it's wrong because it can't be disproven? WAT

According to the theory, everything after the blast is indoctrination.

I know lol I should edit that out...
I don't agree with that part of the theory since waking up in London makes all three endings a lose/lose/lose scenario, where the best case is that Shepard wakes up, reapers are still harvesting earth and the alliance still need someone to open the citadel arms so it can power the crucible. The other two cases are the same except Shepard is indoctrinated/dead.

Modifié par Cazlee, 27 mars 2012 - 05:42 .

[Erethrian]

FemmeShep wrote...

Serious question:

How would Indoc work anyways? Because essentially, the theory states that Shep is being indoctrinated and is basically being tested. Each choice is a step in the direction of being indoctrinated except Destroy. Destroy would be the correct option, the one that would save Shep from being taken.

Okay...

So if there is DLC ending to follow up after the Indoctrination fails, and Shep wakes up. All the people that chose the (Synth and Control) don't get to play it? How would they implement this. Because essentially, Indoctrination only has ONE correct choice that would allow the player to continue on with DLC. The others don't.

So...how does that work for everyone else....

I just can't fathom that BioWare would make an ending, that requires one right choice, that would hinder future DLC. Doesn't add up tbh.

There's a nice thread about this, made by greywardencommander.

Unlike a lot of people who think the only possible solution is "Destroy", a lot of us think you'll be able to play even if you chose "Control". The only difference is cutscenes, renegade/paragon interruptions and dialogue choices, and maybe, if you were indoctrinated, you have to be killed or kill yourself. Or you can just let the reapers win.

I'll try to find the thread for you.

[Cazlee]

FemmeShep wrote...

So, no one wants to tackle my comment on page 9, about how they would even implement this with DLC?

I still dont see how it's very practical/likely.

You raised a good point, though Shepard is dead in the other two endings regardless of the theory. Their DLC would have to be for savepoints before the final mission.

[TheGreenAlloy]

Master Che wrote...

You do not understand.

Assertion: The proof that Shepard is not indoctrinated is that the prothean AI does not detect indoctrination in her, and because she is able to open the citadel, the necessary and final step in order to activate the crucible. That is the ultimate test  that TIM fails. (neutral option - TIM literally cannot complete the final step, and this is how he realises he is indoctrinated.) [I have quoted the VI exactly in this thread - there is no evidence to believe his detection system is imperfect. That is an assumption made by the theory people and labeled as proof.]

Refutation: There is a difference between being indoctrinated and going through it.  IT does not say he WAS indoctrinated.  IT states that the Reapers are TRYING to indoctrinate him. 

Assertion: Whenever Shepard is being controlled there are wavy lines in her vision. (Like when she is forced to shoot Anderston). The wavy lines are gone completely when TIM dies.

Refutation: The wavy lines are like clinching a fist to hold onto something tighter.  ...but you can still have a grip without giving a death grip.  Like .38 Special said, Hold on loosely.

Assertion: If Shepard were truly indoctrinated, she would not be able to destroy the reapers (in the same way TIM could not interact with the citadel control panel). Because the red (destroy) option exists is again proof that she is not indoctrinated.

Refutation: See first one.  Shep is not yet indoctrinated.  If Shep chooses green or blue, then that completes the process.  Also, the IT is that everything from the run to the beam forward is the hallucination.

Thank you, you wrote what I did not bother to.

[EagleScoutDJB]

Cazlee wrote...

IT theory leaves no way to disprove it because "it was all a dream." How can you disprove a dream?

Unschuld wrote...

  

Are we allowing dreams into evidence now? How can I defend my innocence against this kind of testimony...

Edit:  The breath scene is powerful, and it's the one reason I liked the idea of the theory. I think it is an interesting concept if the green and blue paths lead to indoctrination, but if that were the case the game would have strongly hinted at that in the endings. Since the green path only opens with high EMS it doesn't quite make sense for all of our "extra" hard work to be  rewarded with yet another indoctrination ending (besides blue assuming it's true). I feel like most of the other reasons to support the theory are really stretching the facts or they are assumptions.  If you agree with the indoc theory, then the below information will probably just annoy you. I've updated it a little to make it less annoying for you. You can dispute it, or instead, if you want, post the one evidence from the theory that makes you believe in it.

Here are reasons I trust that Shepard is not indoctrinated:

-The proof that the 'starchild' is telling the truth is that all of the ending choices do exactly what starchild says they will. [I'll withdraw this since apparently not even the grandfather scene showing *humans* at peace in the future is considered real.]

-The proof that Shepard is not indoctrinated is that the prothean AI does not detect indoctrination in her, and because she is able to open the citadel, the necessary and final step in order to activate the crucible. That is the ultimate test  that TIM fails. (neutral option - TIM literally cannot complete the final step, and this is how he realises he is indoctrinated.) [I have quoted the VI exactly in this thread - there is no evidence to believe his detection system is imperfect. That is an assumption made by the theory people and labeled as proof.]

-Whenever Shepard is being controlled there are wavy lines in her vision. (Like when she is forced to shoot Anderston). The wavy lines are gone completely when TIM dies.

-If Shepard were truly indoctrinated, she would not be able to destroy the reapers (in the same way TIM could not interact with the citadel control panel). Because the red (destroy) option exists is again proof that she is not indoctrinated.

I hope your wrong, but only time will tell.

[NM_Che56]

TheGreenAlloy wrote...

Master Che wrote...

You do not understand.

Assertion: The proof that Shepard is not indoctrinated is that the prothean AI does not detect indoctrination in her, and because she is able to open the citadel, the necessary and final step in order to activate the crucible. That is the ultimate test  that TIM fails. (neutral option - TIM literally cannot complete the final step, and this is how he realises he is indoctrinated.) [I have quoted the VI exactly in this thread - there is no evidence to believe his detection system is imperfect. That is an assumption made by the theory people and labeled as proof.]

Refutation: There is a difference between being indoctrinated and going through it.  IT does not say he WAS indoctrinated.  IT states that the Reapers are TRYING to indoctrinate him. 

Assertion: Whenever Shepard is being controlled there are wavy lines in her vision. (Like when she is forced to shoot Anderston). The wavy lines are gone completely when TIM dies.

Refutation: The wavy lines are like clinching a fist to hold onto something tighter.  ...but you can still have a grip without giving a death grip.  Like .38 Special said, Hold on loosely.

Assertion: If Shepard were truly indoctrinated, she would not be able to destroy the reapers (in the same way TIM could not interact with the citadel control panel). Because the red (destroy) option exists is again proof that she is not indoctrinated.

Refutation: See first one.  Shep is not yet indoctrinated.  If Shep chooses green or blue, then that completes the process.  Also, the IT is that everything from the run to the beam forward is the hallucination.

Thank you, you wrote what I did not bother to.

*waves banner*

[FemmeShep]

Erethrian wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Serious question:

How would Indoc work anyways? Because essentially, the theory states that Shep is being indoctrinated and is basically being tested. Each choice is a step in the direction of being indoctrinated except Destroy. Destroy would be the correct option, the one that would save Shep from being taken.

Okay...

So if there is DLC ending to follow up after the Indoctrination fails, and Shep wakes up. All the people that chose the (Synth and Control) don't get to play it? How would they implement this. Because essentially, Indoctrination only has ONE correct choice that would allow the player to continue on with DLC. The others don't.

So...how does that work for everyone else....

I just can't fathom that BioWare would make an ending, that requires one right choice, that would hinder future DLC. Doesn't add up tbh.

There's a nice thread about this, made by greywardencommander.

Unlike a lot of people who think the only possible solution is "Destroy", a lot of us think you'll be able to play even if you chose "Control". The only difference is cutscenes, renegade/paragon interruptions and dialogue choices, and maybe, if you were indoctrinated, you have to be killed or kill yourself. Or you can just let the reapers win.

I'll try to find the thread for you.

Sweet, I'll also look for the thread. Appreciate it. 

Now I feel like a fool, had no idea this was already discussed. 

[DraCZeQQ]

Cazlee wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

So, no one wants to tackle my comment on page 9, about how they would even implement this with DLC?

I still dont see how it's very practical/likely.

You raised a good point, though Shepard is dead in the other two endings regardless of the theory. Their DLC would have to be for savepoints before the final mission.

Exactly.

> Please select RED ending to continue playing the game ... yup, IT got it right! Now it all makes sense ... I was so blind ... maybe ... maybe I was indoctrinated ...

[Turkeysock]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Still Javik would have detected progressing Indoctrination process with his touch as well as Liara while she gives you her gift ...

If it's very subtle, they wouldn't be able to detect it. Otherwise how would you explain the Prothean's working on the Crucible failing to see that the proponents for Control were really indoctrinated?

TIM's been under a very subtle indoctrination for decades and it wasn't noticed until the last minute.

[Erethrian]

FemmeShep wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Serious question:

...

...

Sweet, I'll also look for the thread. Appreciate it. 

Now I feel like a fool, had no idea this was already discussed. 

Here's the thread. It's a wall of text but, well. ^^'

http://social.biowar.../index/10350970

Also, if IT is true I think it'll be possible to have several outcomes. Maybe your squadmates shooting at Shep, or even you shooting your squadmates, betraying them. Anyway, we'll have to wait until April to know what's going on.


Edit: Also, thinking about it, all the renegade options regarding important decisions go in favor of the reapers... Maybe if there's some kind of DLC is oriented that way. Paragon/Neutral-Renegade/Reaper?  I don't think so, but right now, who knows?

Modifié par Erethrian, 27 mars 2012 - 05:57 .

[Turkeysock]

In the end, this doesn't really matter. I just like to debate for the sake of debating.

Here's how I wished they ended ME3.

[DraCZeQQ]

Turkeysock wrote...

In the end, this doesn't really matter. I just like to debate for the sake of debating

Yup, pretty much.

Still, I miss to option to blow up Sol Relay ... but since Reapers has been made dumb by writters, they can't give sound tactic reasoning to alliance either ...

[Nardy86]

Plenty of evidence supporting IT and if true would be cool but...let's face it, it ain't true, never will be. I mean if I buy a game, especially the last in a trilogy, I expect a complete ending to the story IN the game, not having to purchase DLC to see it come to fruition. I can't see BW doing that, sorry.

[spz123]

Nardy86 wrote...

Plenty of evidence supporting IT and if true would be cool but...let's face it, it ain't true, never will be. I mean if I buy a game, especially the last in a trilogy, I expect a complete ending to the story IN the game, not having to purchase DLC to see it come to fruition.

Well apparently Asura's Wrath has "true conclusion" DLC coming soon, so whilst I'd like to believe no company would do that, they won't be the first.

http://www.eurogamer...lc-out-tomorrow

[Cazlee]

I've updated the first post to show where arguments were refuted. The formatting gets worse and worse every time I edit so I doubt I'm going to edit that post again.