[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
[/quote]
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI. [/quote]
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.
[/quote]
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI. [/quote]
But VI's are also based upon the same technology as AI's like EDI and the Geth.
[/quote]
The alliance banned AI. That is why EDI had to deceive the crew into believing that she was a VI.
VI technology is probably part of the building blocks to AI, but so are basic computers. By the way VI = virtual interface, AI = artificial intelligence. There's obviously a huge difference.
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.[/quote]
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.[/quote]
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
[/quote]
TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.[/quote]
That doesn't actually counter what I said. The only way for TIM to have tried to take control would have been AFTER the Crucible docked. Because the Starchild stated that the Crucible added three new choices that Shepard must choose. TIM stopped the crucible from docking because he, nor anyone else, knew what would happen.
[/quote]
TIM does not stop the crucible from docking. He tries to get it to happen, but fails. There are specific dialogues from TIM that show he is aware that the crucible is needed to control the reapers. It just takes too long to get to the end scene or else I would quote them.
[/quote]tim=dream.
Indoc Theory is False
Débuté par
Cazlee
, mars 27 2012 06:17
Retour en haut
#77
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 07:59
dreman9999
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So what....It never says TIM is indoctrinated. The VI and TIM are never in the same room...Also, in sacturay, we find out that they found a way to control reaper force by reverse enginner in the indoctrination field.Cazlee wrote...
The VI calls cereberus indoctrinated forces.dreman9999 wrote...
Your saying the prothean VI can tell TIM is indoctrinated through his long range hologram?Cazlee wrote...
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI.Turkeysock wrote...
Cazlee wrote...
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI.Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.Turkeysock wrote...
Cazlee wrote...
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
Dude, he was not even in the room. That was a hologram.
So ..
Husk=indoctrinated
Cererus troops=indoctrinated.
Cerberus=can also control indoctrinated troops...
...
Anyone else see a pattern.
Modifié par dreman9999, 27 mars 2012 - 08:00 .
#78
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:03
Cazlee
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Skyhawk02 wrote...
I didn't want to buy into indocrination theory, but the thing that pushed me to agreeing with it was that shepard's eyes look just like the illusive mans eyes if you pick control or synthesis. They do not if you pick destroy. I can think of no other explanation for this other than indoctrination theory.
I took a lot of screenshots of Shepard taking the blue option. This is the final upclose screenshot of her, and it clearly shows her eyes. They are not TIM eyes.
Modifié par Cazlee, 27 mars 2012 - 08:04 .
#79
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:04
Skyhawk02
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It just occured to me that when the prothean VI says, "indoctrinated presence detected" it could be talking about Shepard, maybe it was scanning him the whole time, and it just took awhile for the scan to complete. That might be a stretch, it was just a thought.
#80
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:06
Turkeysock
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[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
[/quote]
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI. [/quote]
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.
[/quote]
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI. [/quote]
But VI's are also based upon the same technology as AI's like EDI and the Geth.
[/quote]
The alliance banned AI. That is why EDI had to deceive the crew into believing that she was a VI.
VI technology is probably part of the building blocks to AI, but so are basic computers. By the way VI = virtual interface, AI = artificial intelligence. There's obviously a huge difference.[/quote]
The Council banned AI research, but gives out permission for carefully controlled research into AI territory. EDI is an unshackled AI, hence why she deceived the Alliance crew working on the Normandy. Had they caught wind of her, there would have been tighter restrictions and probability that her blue box would be removed from the Normandy so the Alliance could study her growth in order to learn more about AI's.
Also, VI = Virtual Intelligence. There isn't much of a difference really, AI's are programmed to learn and adapt, VI's are programmed to carry out certain functions and cannot operate outside those functions.
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.[/quote]
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.[/quote]
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
[/quote]
TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.[/quote]
That doesn't actually counter what I said. The only way for TIM to have tried to take control would have been AFTER the Crucible docked. Because the Starchild stated that the Crucible added three new choices that Shepard must choose. TIM stopped the crucible from docking because he, nor anyone else, knew what would happen.
[/quote]
TIM does not stop the crucible from docking. He tries to get it to happen, but fails. There are specific dialogues from TIM that show he is aware that the crucible is needed to control the reapers. It just takes too long to get to the end scene or else I would quote them.
[/quote]
Again, why would TIM run to the Reapers and stop the Crucible from docking in the first place? He obviously figured out that the Crucible was required AFTER he tried to take control and failed.
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
[/quote]
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI. [/quote]
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.
[/quote]
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI. [/quote]
But VI's are also based upon the same technology as AI's like EDI and the Geth.
[/quote]
The alliance banned AI. That is why EDI had to deceive the crew into believing that she was a VI.
VI technology is probably part of the building blocks to AI, but so are basic computers. By the way VI = virtual interface, AI = artificial intelligence. There's obviously a huge difference.[/quote]
The Council banned AI research, but gives out permission for carefully controlled research into AI territory. EDI is an unshackled AI, hence why she deceived the Alliance crew working on the Normandy. Had they caught wind of her, there would have been tighter restrictions and probability that her blue box would be removed from the Normandy so the Alliance could study her growth in order to learn more about AI's.
Also, VI = Virtual Intelligence. There isn't much of a difference really, AI's are programmed to learn and adapt, VI's are programmed to carry out certain functions and cannot operate outside those functions.
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.[/quote]
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.[/quote]
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
[/quote]
TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.[/quote]
That doesn't actually counter what I said. The only way for TIM to have tried to take control would have been AFTER the Crucible docked. Because the Starchild stated that the Crucible added three new choices that Shepard must choose. TIM stopped the crucible from docking because he, nor anyone else, knew what would happen.
[/quote]
TIM does not stop the crucible from docking. He tries to get it to happen, but fails. There are specific dialogues from TIM that show he is aware that the crucible is needed to control the reapers. It just takes too long to get to the end scene or else I would quote them.
[/quote]
Again, why would TIM run to the Reapers and stop the Crucible from docking in the first place? He obviously figured out that the Crucible was required AFTER he tried to take control and failed.
#81
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:06
Unschuld
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Cazlee wrote...
I took a lot of screenshots of Shepard taking the blue option. This is the final upclose screenshot of her, and it clearly shows her eyes. They are not TIM eyes.
So your Shepard already had eyes with three blue glowing orbs inside the iris?
#82
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:07
KaeserZen
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Cazlee wrote...
Skyhawk02 wrote...
I didn't want to buy into indocrination theory, but the thing that pushed me to agreeing with it was that shepard's eyes look just like the illusive mans eyes if you pick control or synthesis. They do not if you pick destroy. I can think of no other explanation for this other than indoctrination theory.
I took a lot of screenshots of Shepard taking the blue option. This is the final upclose screenshot of her, and it clearly shows her eyes. They are not TIM eyes.
Quite the opposite. The mechanical pattern in the iris in the same. The only difference is the hue of the blue.
#83
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:07
GME_ThorianCreeper
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Yah those 2 circles in your fem sheps eyes clearly do not look exactly like the illusive man's eyes.
#84
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:07
dreman9999
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They're blur...Being blue is the indicator of indoctrination...Also during the synthesis choice...Shep's eyes turns blue ,too.Cazlee wrote...
Skyhawk02 wrote...
I didn't want to buy into indocrination theory, but the thing that pushed me to agreeing with it was that shepard's eyes look just like the illusive mans eyes if you pick control or synthesis. They do not if you pick destroy. I can think of no other explanation for this other than indoctrination theory.
I took a lot of screenshots of Shepard taking the blue option. This is the final upclose screenshot of her, and it clearly shows her eyes. They are not TIM eyes.
#85
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:07
Turkeysock
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dreman9999 wrote...
So what....It never says TIM is indoctrinated. The VI and TIM are never in the same room...Also, in sacturay, we find out that they found a way to control reaper force by reverse enginner in the indoctrination field.Cazlee wrote...
The VI calls cereberus indoctrinated forces.dreman9999 wrote...
Your saying the prothean VI can tell TIM is indoctrinated through his long range hologram?Cazlee wrote...
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI.Turkeysock wrote...
Cazlee wrote...
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI.Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.Turkeysock wrote...
Cazlee wrote...
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
Dude, he was not even in the room. That was a hologram.
So ..
Husk=indoctrinated
Cererus troops=indoctrinated.
Cerberus=can also control indoctrinated troops...
...
Anyone else see a pattern.
Actually... They were pretty close to each other (you find the Prothean VI in TIM's 'office') in the Cerberus Base before you head to Earth.
#86
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:09
dreman9999
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The VI would of said that when Shep got it back.Skyhawk02 wrote...
It just occured to me that when the prothean VI says, "indoctrinated presence detected" it could be talking about Shepard, maybe it was scanning him the whole time, and it just took awhile for the scan to complete. That might be a stretch, it was just a thought.
#87
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:10
noobcannon
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Cazlee wrote...
IT theory leaves no way to disprove it because "it was all a dream." How can you disprove a dream?
Here are reasons for believing that Shepard is not indoctrinated:
-The proof that the 'starchild' is telling the truth is that all of the ending choices do exactly what starchild says they will.
-The proof that Shepard is not indoctrinated is that the prothean AI does not detect indoctrination in her, and because she is able to open the citadel, the necessary and final step in order to activate the crucible. That is the ultimate test that TIM fails. (neutral option - TIM literally cannot complete the final step, and this is how he realises he is indoctrinated.)
-Whenever Shepard is being controlled there are wavy lines in her vision. The wavy lines are gone completely when TIM dies.
-If Shepard were truly indoctrinated, she would not be able to destroy the reapers (in the same way TIM could not interact with the citadel control panel). Because the red (destroy) option exists is again proof that she is not indoctrinated.
If the blue and green endings are paths to indoctrination, there would be evidence for it in the two end scenes.
proof[/i]/pro͞of/
Noun:Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a FACT or the truth of a statement.
Adjective:Able to withstand something damaging; resistant.
Verb:Make (fabric) waterproof: "the tent is made from proofed nylon".
Synonyms:
noun. evidence - test - trial - demonstration - testimony
Modifié par noobcannon, 27 mars 2012 - 08:12 .
#88
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:11
dreman9999
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[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
[/quote]
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI. [/quote]
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.
[/quote]
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI.
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.[/quote]
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.[/quote]
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
[/quote]
TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.
[/quote]Your saying the prothean VI can tell TIM is indoctrinated through his long range hologram?
Dude, he was not even in the room. That was a hologram.
[/quote]
The VI calls cereberus indoctrinated forces.
[/quote]So what....It never says TIM is indoctrinated. The VI and TIM are never in the same room...Also, in sacturay, we find out that they found a way to control reaper force by reverse enginner in the indoctrination field.
So ..
Husk=indoctrinated
Cererus troops=indoctrinated.
Cerberus=can also control indoctrinated troops...
...
Anyone else see a pattern.
[/quote]
Actually... They were pretty close to each other (you find the Prothean VI in TIM's 'office') in the Cerberus Base before you head to Earth.
[/quote]You don't understand...You , the player, don't see TIM or the VI in the same room. The vi never gets the chance to tell you if TIM is indoctrinated or not. Their is nothing stating bluntly that TIM is indoctrinated.
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
[/quote]
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI. [/quote]
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.
[/quote]
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI.
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.[/quote]
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.[/quote]
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
[/quote]
TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.
[/quote]Your saying the prothean VI can tell TIM is indoctrinated through his long range hologram?
Dude, he was not even in the room. That was a hologram.
[/quote]
The VI calls cereberus indoctrinated forces.
[/quote]So what....It never says TIM is indoctrinated. The VI and TIM are never in the same room...Also, in sacturay, we find out that they found a way to control reaper force by reverse enginner in the indoctrination field.
So ..
Husk=indoctrinated
Cererus troops=indoctrinated.
Cerberus=can also control indoctrinated troops...
...
Anyone else see a pattern.
[/quote]
Actually... They were pretty close to each other (you find the Prothean VI in TIM's 'office') in the Cerberus Base before you head to Earth.
[/quote]You don't understand...You , the player, don't see TIM or the VI in the same room. The vi never gets the chance to tell you if TIM is indoctrinated or not. Their is nothing stating bluntly that TIM is indoctrinated.
#89
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:15
Cazlee
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Where is the second iris ring, why are the "orbs" not perfect like TIM's? Why do they instead look like reflection of the bright electricity in front of and going through Shepard?Unschuld wrote...
Cazlee wrote...
I took a lot of screenshots of Shepard taking the blue option. This is the final upclose screenshot of her, and it clearly shows her eyes. They are not TIM eyes.
So your Shepard already had eyes with three blue glowing orbs inside the iris?
#90
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:16
Turkeysock
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[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
[/quote]
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI. [/quote]
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.
[/quote]
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI.
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.[/quote]
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.[/quote]
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
[/quote]
TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.
[/quote]Your saying the prothean VI can tell TIM is indoctrinated through his long range hologram?
Dude, he was not even in the room. That was a hologram.
[/quote]
The VI calls cereberus indoctrinated forces.
[/quote]So what....It never says TIM is indoctrinated. The VI and TIM are never in the same room...Also, in sacturay, we find out that they found a way to control reaper force by reverse enginner in the indoctrination field.
So ..
Husk=indoctrinated
Cererus troops=indoctrinated.
Cerberus=can also control indoctrinated troops...
...
Anyone else see a pattern.
[/quote]
Actually... They were pretty close to each other (you find the Prothean VI in TIM's 'office') in the Cerberus Base before you head to Earth.
[/quote]You don't understand...You , the player, don't see TIM or the VI in the same room. The vi never gets the chance to tell you if TIM is indoctrinated or not. Their is nothing stating bluntly that TIM is indoctrinated.
[/quote]
There is the fact that TIM came into contact with Reaper tech during the events of the comic Mass Effect: Evolution. Also, if the VI was no where near TIM, how does he know that TIM ran off to the Citadel and warned the Reapers? I don't think that would be in any open system for it to come across, and EDI would have come across it before it did. Obviously they had to have some kind of contact in order for it to have that kind of info.
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
[/quote]
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI. [/quote]
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.
[/quote]
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI.
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.[/quote]
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.[/quote]
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
[/quote]
TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.
[/quote]Your saying the prothean VI can tell TIM is indoctrinated through his long range hologram?
Dude, he was not even in the room. That was a hologram.
[/quote]
The VI calls cereberus indoctrinated forces.
[/quote]So what....It never says TIM is indoctrinated. The VI and TIM are never in the same room...Also, in sacturay, we find out that they found a way to control reaper force by reverse enginner in the indoctrination field.
So ..
Husk=indoctrinated
Cererus troops=indoctrinated.
Cerberus=can also control indoctrinated troops...
...
Anyone else see a pattern.
[/quote]
Actually... They were pretty close to each other (you find the Prothean VI in TIM's 'office') in the Cerberus Base before you head to Earth.
[/quote]You don't understand...You , the player, don't see TIM or the VI in the same room. The vi never gets the chance to tell you if TIM is indoctrinated or not. Their is nothing stating bluntly that TIM is indoctrinated.
[/quote]
There is the fact that TIM came into contact with Reaper tech during the events of the comic Mass Effect: Evolution. Also, if the VI was no where near TIM, how does he know that TIM ran off to the Citadel and warned the Reapers? I don't think that would be in any open system for it to come across, and EDI would have come across it before it did. Obviously they had to have some kind of contact in order for it to have that kind of info.
#91
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:19
dreman9999
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- Members
- 19 067 messages
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
[/quote]
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI. [/quote]
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.
[/quote]
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI.
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.[/quote]
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.[/quote]
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
[/quote]
TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.
[/quote]Your saying the prothean VI can tell TIM is indoctrinated through his long range hologram?
Dude, he was not even in the room. That was a hologram.
[/quote]
The VI calls cereberus indoctrinated forces.
[/quote]So what....It never says TIM is indoctrinated. The VI and TIM are never in the same room...Also, in sacturay, we find out that they found a way to control reaper force by reverse enginner in the indoctrination field.
So ..
Husk=indoctrinated
Cererus troops=indoctrinated.
Cerberus=can also control indoctrinated troops...
...
Anyone else see a pattern.
[/quote]
Actually... They were pretty close to each other (you find the Prothean VI in TIM's 'office') in the Cerberus Base before you head to Earth.
[/quote]You don't understand...You , the player, don't see TIM or the VI in the same room. The vi never gets the chance to tell you if TIM is indoctrinated or not. Their is nothing stating bluntly that TIM is indoctrinated.
[/quote]
There is the fact that TIM came into contact with Reaper tech during the events of the comic Mass Effect: Evolution. Also, if the VI was no where near TIM, how does he know that TIM ran off to the Citadel and warned the Reapers? I don't think that would be in any open system for it to come across, and EDI would have come across it before it did. Obviously they had to have some kind of contact in order for it to have that kind of info.
[/quote]I know...But that is countered by the fact that TIM stops the reapers in that comic fromindoctrinating palvin and the fact that they never contol him in the comic.....Added on TIM never gives Shep over to the collectors. There still is not anything that bluntly states TIM is indoctrinated.
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Reverse psychology. Present the option that your target is most likely to do, but then add in some consequences that would make that option less viable, IE the destruction of every synthetic beings (according to it, that would mean EDI and the Geth go bye bye).
[/quote]
It's not reverse psychology when not all Shepards like or trust the geth or EDI. [/quote]
That actually doesn't matter. Because if EDI and the Geth are included, you could easily see the possibility that all VI's would also be affected by this. And VI's are integral part of the Alliance fleets, don't know about the other races ships, but the Alliance would be ****ed without them.
[/quote]
The alliance have VIs, but the child is talking about AIs. Edi and the Geth are AI.
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
[quote]Cazlee wrote...
[quote]Turkeysock wrote...
Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel.[/quote]
Because he knows the crucible is the way to control the reapers.[/quote]
TIM doesn't appear to know much then. Why then run to the Citadel and inform the Reapers? Why not just take a small task force (there are obviously many Cerberus cells still around even after the fall of his main base) and just lie in wait? Plus, he obviously tried to control the Reapers before the Crucible docked, because the Crucible didn't dock until AFTER Shepard opened the arms of the Citadel, which was either after TIM commited suicide or you shot him.
[/quote]
TIM was already indoctrinated. The prothean VI says as much. TIM still wanted to control the reapers, but he could not because he was already indoctrinated. We both see this in game, and it is stated by the child.
[/quote]Your saying the prothean VI can tell TIM is indoctrinated through his long range hologram?
Dude, he was not even in the room. That was a hologram.
[/quote]
The VI calls cereberus indoctrinated forces.
[/quote]So what....It never says TIM is indoctrinated. The VI and TIM are never in the same room...Also, in sacturay, we find out that they found a way to control reaper force by reverse enginner in the indoctrination field.
So ..
Husk=indoctrinated
Cererus troops=indoctrinated.
Cerberus=can also control indoctrinated troops...
...
Anyone else see a pattern.
[/quote]
Actually... They were pretty close to each other (you find the Prothean VI in TIM's 'office') in the Cerberus Base before you head to Earth.
[/quote]You don't understand...You , the player, don't see TIM or the VI in the same room. The vi never gets the chance to tell you if TIM is indoctrinated or not. Their is nothing stating bluntly that TIM is indoctrinated.
[/quote]
There is the fact that TIM came into contact with Reaper tech during the events of the comic Mass Effect: Evolution. Also, if the VI was no where near TIM, how does he know that TIM ran off to the Citadel and warned the Reapers? I don't think that would be in any open system for it to come across, and EDI would have come across it before it did. Obviously they had to have some kind of contact in order for it to have that kind of info.
[/quote]I know...But that is countered by the fact that TIM stops the reapers in that comic fromindoctrinating palvin and the fact that they never contol him in the comic.....Added on TIM never gives Shep over to the collectors. There still is not anything that bluntly states TIM is indoctrinated.
#92
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:22
Unschuld
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- Members
- 3 468 messages
Cazlee wrote...
Where is the second iris ring, why are the "orbs" not perfect like TIM's? Why do they instead look like reflection of the bright electricity in front of and going through Shepard?Unschuld wrote...
Cazlee wrote...
I took a lot of screenshots of Shepard taking the blue option. This is the final upclose screenshot of her, and it clearly shows her eyes. They are not TIM eyes.
So your Shepard already had eyes with three blue glowing orbs inside the iris?
The pattern is too regular, but it also needn't be "exactly" the same (in terms of the second circle you're referring to), the similarity is close enough. My Shepard's eyes are blue, and this same pattern shows up. That's also not even counting Shepards with NON-blue eyes changing to that color/pattern as well.
#93
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:24
noobcannon
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Cazlee wrote...
IT theory leaves no way to disprove it because "it was all a dream." How can you disprove a dream?
Here are reasons for believing that Shepard is not indoctrinated:
-The proof that the 'starchild' is telling the truth is that all of the ending choices do exactly what starchild says they will.
-The proof that Shepard is not indoctrinated is that the prothean AI does not detect indoctrination in her, and because she is able to open the citadel, the necessary and final step in order to activate the crucible. That is the ultimate test that TIM fails. (neutral option - TIM literally cannot complete the final step, and this is how he realises he is indoctrinated.)
-Whenever Shepard is being controlled there are wavy lines in her vision. The wavy lines are gone completely when TIM dies.
-If Shepard were truly indoctrinated, she would not be able to destroy the reapers (in the same way TIM could not interact with the citadel control panel). Because the red (destroy) option exists is again proof that she is not indoctrinated.
If the blue and green endings are paths to indoctrination, there would be evidence for it in the two end scenes.
i can't believe it. you've done what no one else here has been able to do. you have single-handedly proven the indoc theory is false. you are now a legend and can continue your adventure with future downloable content.
#94
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:25
GME_ThorianCreeper
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- 627 messages
Take a screen of your shep in the synthesis ending then, same eyes.Cazlee wrote...
Where is the second iris ring, why are the "orbs" not perfect like TIM's? Why do they instead look like reflection of the bright electricity in front of and going through Shepard?Unschuld wrote...
Cazlee wrote...
I took a lot of screenshots of Shepard taking the blue option. This is the final upclose screenshot of her, and it clearly shows her eyes. They are not TIM eyes.
So your Shepard already had eyes with three blue glowing orbs inside the iris?
#95
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:26
Cazlee
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Does someone have a non-CGI closeup of TIM's eyes in ME3?
His eyes are clearly unnatural, I'm sorry but Shep's eyes still look natural, aside from the brightness.
His eyes are clearly unnatural, I'm sorry but Shep's eyes still look natural, aside from the brightness.
Modifié par Cazlee, 27 mars 2012 - 08:29 .
#96
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:28
Unschuld
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Cazlee wrote...
Does someone have a non-CGI closeup of TIM's eyes in ME3?
Why? Are you going to argue that because the pattern isn't as sharp as the pattern of TIM's eyes that it must be a false presumption? By the way, there's this amazing thing called google...
#97
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:30
dreman9999
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Cazlee wrote...
Does someone have a non-CGI closeup of TIM's eyes in ME3?
Not a joke...Just showing you the eys don't need to be exactly like TIMS and Sarens to the letter to indicate someone is indoctrinated.
#98
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:36
DraCZeQQ
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Ofc Indoc. theory is false ... every single point can be explained ... there is no evidence, just a lot of speculation that has been twisted to fit its needs ...
#99
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:39
GME_ThorianCreeper
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I would love to see all the evidence of the indoc theory be disproved, go ahead, give it a shot.DraCZeQQ wrote...
Ofc Indoc. theory is false ... every single point can be explained ... there is no evidence, just a lot of speculation that has been twisted to fit its needs ...
#100
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 08:41
KaeserZen
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Cazlee wrote...
Does someone have a non-CGI closeup of TIM's eyes in ME3?
His eyes are clearly unnatural, I'm sorry but Shep's eyes still look natural, aside from the brightness.
You can still see that this is the same eyes. Aside again from a slightly different blue hue
If after these images you won't acknowledge that these are indeed the same eyes, regardless of their origin, then you are simply trying to dodge the topic.
Modifié par KaeserZen, 27 mars 2012 - 08:43 .
