244 réponses à ce sujet

[DraCZeQQ]

SwobyJ wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Ofc Indoc. theory is false ... every single point can be explained ... there is no evidence, just a lot of speculation that has been twisted to fit its needs ...

I would love to see all the evidence of the indoc theory be disproved, go ahead, give it a shot.

There is no evidence ... why do you people still use this word ...

There is a TON of evidence. But it can be all circumstantial, etc. There is no PROOF, until Bioware states something, and/or there is a major leak confirming things. Otherwise, we're stuck with inconclusive EVIDENCE.

Well there is a WORD OF GOD at the end of the game, cleary stating this was the real thing (also asking you to buy more DLC) ... but hey, lets ignore it ...

"Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat.." can mean a hell of a lot more things than what it seems.

It can also just be a stock message for the ending of current content no matter what, in which case...whatever.

It never said the 'real thing'. Just that the Reaper threat was ended. And Shepard has become a legend. That's about... 90% conclusive, but not 100%

Ok let me get it straight ... I don't mind IT per say, its nicely constructed fanfic ... but I strongly oppose the fact that its what Bioware intended or even went for ... and if Bioware says I ended the threat, I'm gonna believe them because they are the word of god ...

Its pretty obvious that the dream sequences with dead child are supposed to show that Sheppard is tormented by the death around him/her ... thats why he/she sees dead kid, shadows of dead PEOPLE, hears DEAD squad mates ... thats it, thats what Bioware intended ... to shove emotions down our throats (as they did with kid getting shot down scene), its nothing more then setting the THEME for "DEATH IS ALL AROUND US" and DEATH weights heavily on Sheppard ... here Bioware just sidetrack Renegade personality for showing emotions ... even the after dreams dialogues confirm this when Sheppard talks about loosing people

Hearing voices? Well Sheppard hears voices FROM THIS CYCLE therefor she doesnt hear Reaper voices ...

Unlimited ammo in last scene? Oh cool, there is unlimited ammo in the first scene.

Sheppard using gun he didnt have? In half cinematics Sheppard OR other squadmember is using weapon they didnt have ...

TIM assuming control? Whole Horizon / Cerberus stage is about TIM researching indoctrination and how to use it, he modified husk creation for his needs, why couldnt he modified indoctrination for his needs to help him control severaly wounded / weakened Sheppard for a very brief moment? (Thats the scene Bioware set, thats how Bioware used that set on that scene, if it was poorly executed, well thats called rushed ending)

etc. as I said EVERYTHING can be explained or written of bad writing, rule of cool, lazy designers, reusing textures, models and of course rushed endings ...

So yea, we could sit here and argue what makes more sense ... but the point is, Bioware did it THIS way, not the Indoc. way ...

EDIT:

SwobyJ wrote...

Blackguard82 wrote...

I am guessing nobody noticed that the starchild is the kid that shepard fails to save and sees in his dreams?

I think everyone noticed that. Some possibilities:

a) Kid was real in the beginning, same as the farm girl was real in trailers, using kids is great for emotions and Bioware reused model to shove more emotions down our throats

How could Catalyst be in Vancouver? Why would he be there, if Sheppard didn't have - at that time - even clue about Crucible or Catalyst

Modifié par DraCZeQQ, 27 mars 2012 - 09:57 .

[Cazlee]

^Don't worry about the gun. Shepard finds a gun on the floor and picks up when she's in the citadel. It's part of the cutscene after you teleport up.

[DraCZeQQ]

Cazlee wrote...

^Don't worry about the gun. Shepard finds a gun on the floor and picks up when she's in the citadel. It's part of the cutscene after you teleport up.

wasn't that one of the IT "evidence" that Sheppard uses imaginary unlimited ammo gun, he/she didnt have before the beam hit?

Modifié par DraCZeQQ, 27 mars 2012 - 10:01 .

[Icinix]

It doesn't matter if you don't believe indoctrination theory.

Indoctrination theory believes in you.

[iotha1804]

OK, nothing is wrong or right. If BW wants us to see Death Star suddenly appears on earth out of nowhere and destroys every single reaper out there and then wild Darth Vader walks out of it and claims that Shep is actually his son for an ending DLC, then that's it. No matter how many plot holes are there, or how ridiculous the explanation is, THAT'S the product we're gonna see. So just stop fighting over uncertain things, and wait for the upcoming DLC.

[Cazlee]

usmack5 wrote...

Actually, if you choose the "destroy" option with enough war assets, it shows Shepard taking a breath after the credits. The star child said that all synthetics, including you because you have synthetic parts, would die if you chose that option. Therefore, it was either lying or did not understand the ramifications of the activation of the Crucible. I don't know which would make less sense. It all makes sense if you go along with the IT, though.

The breath scene is powerful, and it's the one reason I liked the idea of the theory. I don't mind if the green and blue paths lead to indoctrination, but if that were the case the game would have strongly hinted at that in the endings. Since the green path only opens with high EMS it doesn't quite make sense for all of our "extra" hard work to be rewarded with yet another indoctrination ending (besides blue). I feel like most of the other reasons to support the theory are really stretching the facts or assumptions.  

Modifié par Cazlee, 27 mars 2012 - 10:10 .

[Cazlee]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

^Don't worry about the gun. Shepard finds a gun on the floor and picks up when she's in the citadel. It's part of the cutscene after you teleport up.

wasn't that one of the IT "evidence" that Sheppard uses imaginary unlimited ammo gun, he/she didnt have before the beam hit?

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised...

[Icinix]

iotha1804 wrote...

OK, nothing is wrong or right. If BW wants us to see Death Star suddenly appears on earth out of nowhere and destroys every single reaper out there and then wild Darth Vader walks out of it and claims that Shep is actually his son for an ending DLC, then that's it. No matter how many plot holes are there, or how ridiculous the explanation is, THAT'S the product we're gonna see. So just stop fighting over uncertain things, and wait for the upcoming DLC.

..would I be the only person that would see this as an amazing opportunity to create a decent Star Wars game? Regardless of how bat crap crazy it would be?

Yes. Thats how desperate I am for a decent Star Wars game.

[D Wrecks]

It's most certainly been stated by now, but the refute in this thread implies that the indoctrination theory relies on the notion that "it just is" - which isn't the case.

[MadRabbit999]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

^Don't worry about the gun. Shepard finds a gun on the floor and picks up when she's in the citadel. It's part of the cutscene after you teleport up.

wasn't that one of the IT "evidence" that Sheppard uses imaginary unlimited ammo gun, he/she didnt have before the beam hit?

Yes because 10 bullet limits would have been so much fun at the end of the game...

"How did Shepard die?"

"He run out of bullets while killing a husk"

Sounds like an epic ending for the man who single handedly killed reapers.

[DraCZeQQ]

Icinix wrote...

..would I be the only person that would see this as an amazing opportunity to create a decent Star Wars game? Regardless of how bat crap crazy it would be?

Yes. Thats how desperate I am for a decent Star Wars game.

just small association ... This actually reminds me that Bioware made a game story including mind control in SWTOR ... and it was the best class story in the whole game! and it was nicely done and well explained ...

[iotha1804]

Icinix wrote...

iotha1804 wrote...

OK, nothing is wrong or right. If BW wants us to see Death Star suddenly appears on earth out of nowhere and destroys every single reaper out there and then wild Darth Vader walks out of it and claims that Shep is actually his son for an ending DLC, then that's it. No matter how many plot holes are there, or how ridiculous the explanation is, THAT'S the product we're gonna see. So just stop fighting over uncertain things, and wait for the upcoming DLC.

..would I be the only person that would see this as an amazing opportunity to create a decent Star Wars game? Regardless of how bat crap crazy it would be?

Yes. Thats how desperate I am for a decent Star Wars game.

LOL, you are not alone mate. You are not alone...

[Nu-Nu]

I only agree in indoc theory if there is a dlc or some sort of expansion that justify that ending, otherwise it's just bad writing on Bioware part, and those ending are actually meant to be that stupid.

[DraCZeQQ]

SwobyJ wrote...

DraCZeQQ, what I'm saying is that BIOWARE THEMSELVES said they were going to use an indoctrination gameplay sequence for the ending. They scrapped that (again, only known as a *gameplay* sequence). Either its still there, but they're hiding it - or they just didn't clean up the clues to it, and inserted Star Child a while ago.

*Regardless*, it was on Bioware's intent at some point. You're acting like its not. That's false.

So they during artistic process considered using indoctrination in the game ... and? I'm acting like they didnt do it in the final game, which they didn't ...

It's the same as "the Taint" in Dragon Age Lore ... and look how it works, only in cutscenes and even in them its well explained ...

they can intent or consider tons of stuff during brainstorming about plot, doesn't mean the use it in the end ...

EDIT: The only Indoctrination Sheppards suffer is the modified one from TIM, in one cutscene ... 

Modifié par DraCZeQQ, 27 mars 2012 - 10:20 .

[DraCZeQQ]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

^Don't worry about the gun. Shepard finds a gun on the floor and picks up when she's in the citadel. It's part of the cutscene after you teleport up.

wasn't that one of the IT "evidence" that Sheppard uses imaginary unlimited ammo gun, he/she didnt have before the beam hit?

Yes because 10 bullet limits would have been so much fun at the end of the game...

"How did Shepard die?"

"He run out of bullets while killing a husk"

Sounds like an epic ending for the man who single handedly killed reapers.

Well exactly my point =)

[DraCZeQQ]

SwobyJ wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...
EDIT: The only Indoctrination Sheppards suffer is the modified one from TIM, in one cutscene ... 

Gameplay sequence where you are directly indoctrinated does not = an indoctrination theme in the plot.

You're kind of missing the point, so I'll stop.

As I said, there is used modified version indoctrination on Sheppard in one sequence with TIM (who actually mind control your for a brief moment, but evidently doesn't change your neural pathways (no time for that) - so in better term it's - modified short term mind control based on indoctrination research) 

... this actually disproves the IT even more ... because its even crazier to consider Bioware pulled Inception

leading to fact, that there is no breaking from Indoctrination except for the Rule of Cool (where you suddenly overcome mind control, just to kill yourself - Saren, TIM), so if you go with IT, you can kiss Sheppard goodbye as well ...

Modifié par DraCZeQQ, 27 mars 2012 - 10:29 .

[Erethrian]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...
EDIT: The only Indoctrination Sheppards suffer is the modified one from TIM, in one cutscene ... 

Gameplay sequence where you are directly indoctrinated does not = an indoctrination theme in the plot.

You're kind of missing the point, so I'll stop.

As I said, there is used modified version indoctrination on Sheppard in one sequence with TIM (who actually mind control your for a brief moment, but evidently doesn't change your neural pathways (no time for that) - so in better term it's - modified short term mind control based on indoctrination research) 

... this actually disproves the IT even more ... because its even crazier to consider Bioware pulled Inception

leading to fact, that there is no breaking from Indoctrination except for the Rule of Cool (where you suddenly overcome mind control, just to kill yourself - Saren, TIM), so if you go with IT, you can kiss Sheppard goodbye as well ...

And what's wrong with that? If IT is true and Bioware let you A: Sacrifice your Shep to save the galaxy, B: Turn into an Indoctrinated Agent and doom the galaxy. I don't see why Shepard's death is bad. Is that what bothers you?

I'm an IT supporter and I don't think we should be discussing about "evidences" proving or disproving the theory, is just a theory guys, why the need to argue? If it's true, I'll be happy, if not, well, I expect a good/real ending but we all have to wait until April, right? We're a community, let the people think what they want, you won't change my mind by saying "IT is false".

And stay civil...

[Hy0ga]

I'm just gonna past what I wrote in another topic. There's just so much evidence to support the indoctrination theory, I don't know if calling it a theory is even right.

That is London before Marauder Shields and the Husk friends. If the brief "breathing" vid points to anything is to the indoc theory. Actually, IMO is the most solid evidence we have.

The Citadel exploded in Sheps face while in Earths orbit, so there's absolutely no way Shep would be alive and breathing in there. And no. He/She could not re-entered the atmosphere without Armor and Helmet, after a Ginourmous explosion right in His/Her face and landed in the freaking ground and still be alive. There's not enough Space Magic to explain this scenarios.

Besides, according to our little GodChild, Shep is part Synthetic and would have died anyway.

There's just too much evidence to ignore. The whole Citadel final scene never happened.

Modifié par Hy0ga, 27 mars 2012 - 10:37 .

[WolfyZA]

I don't believe in the Indoc theory... Lets say hypothetically it IS true... Then why didnt the game bring it up more often... Making you see a kid... then forget about him, thinking he was just another casualty of war.. Then to eventually see him now and again in a dream... Just seems to vague for me. And in that concept the writers failed again to give me the intention Shepard is being indoctrinated to make it 85% plausible.

Sure the theories and proof is there, but you cant tell me that almost 80% of BW fanbase couldnt see this being indoctrinated until someone went and did some research to make the theory almost credible, when the studio themselves said that the ending we got WAS THE TRUE ENDING!!!

Modifié par WolfyZA, 27 mars 2012 - 10:47 .

[Hy0ga]

I think there's a missing piece in here. For some yet unknown reason the Reapers NEED Shepard. They had A LOT of chances to actually kill him (they even got him caged in the Arrival) and the Collectors wanted his body.

Shep is not being indoctrinated to be an agent or a pawn (such as Saren or TIM), but they need him for some reason. That Destroyer in Rannoch even made clear that Harbinger and the others knows Shepard by name.

[Gernbuster]

I read through all posts here and the IDT thread and if u want to argue against it pls pls pls for gods sake read through IDT first. hundreds of fans were analysing the game for weeks to come up with it. And every single evidence against it, is already somehow explained in the IDT.
I won't explain every single evidence again, but be sure if u think u found something, 100 people already tried to disprove it.
Until Bioware is explaining whats going on, everything is just a theorie nothing more.
Pls stop insulting and repeating the questions on each page.
As long as ME3 was made by humans its not perfect, which means a pistol with unlimited armor doesn't need to be a proof or a disproof.

Just discuss in a proper and polite way and stop thinking about the "others" are stupid. Thx

[Gernbuster]

Hy0ga wrote...

I think there's a missing piece in here. For some yet unknown reason the Reapers NEED Shepard. They had A LOT of chances to actually kill him (they even got him caged in the Arrival) and the Collectors wanted his body.

Shep is not being indoctrinated to be an agent or a pawn (such as Saren or TIM), but they need him for some reason. That Destroyer in Rannoch even made clear that Harbinger and the others knows Shepard by name.

The Reapers think they might lose this time. Javik says the Protheans lost, because they had only one strategie and one culture, this time the galaxy gets united with all its different species and weapons. In the words of a Reaper: The strength of all, the weakness of none"
Shepard is the person the whole galaxy is trusting. If he would get indoctrinated the Reapers would definitly win.