244 réponses à ce sujet

[Turkeysock]

Cazlee wrote...

Did you change your stance from "Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel?"

Because I've been responding to you based mainly on that first statement. TIM tries to open the arms of the citadel so that it can power the crucible (given the right dialogue options), but he realizes that he cannot perform the task because the reapers have full control of him. Because Shepard can do this, Shepard is not indoctrinated at this point.(Unless you believe the whole thing is a dream, in which case your game ends with the Reapers still on Earth and the crucible unactivated.)

No, because it's obvious that he changed his stance AFTER getting half burnt to a crisp. The man tried to take control before the Crucible arrived because he DID NOT KNOW it was needed to take control. After he failed (more so because he was indoctrinated) he assumed correctly that he needed the Crucible to do so.

He doesn't realize he's indoctrinated unless Shepard makes him realize it, thus why he shot himself in the head rather then executes Anderson and Shepard shoots him.

Anyone could've opened the arms of the Citadel, you don't need to be clear of indoctrination to do that.

[Es0]

Since it hasn't been posted yet, I zoomed into the eyes 400% and they look pretty similar to me.

Modifié par Es0, 27 mars 2012 - 04:01 .

[Cazlee]

Turkeysock wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

Did you change your stance from "Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel?"

Because I've been responding to you based mainly on that first statement. TIM tries to open the arms of the citadel so that it can power the crucible (given the right dialogue options), but he realizes that he cannot perform the task because the reapers have full control of him. Because Shepard can do this, Shepard is not indoctrinated at this point.(Unless you believe the whole thing is a dream, in which case your game ends with the Reapers still on Earth and the crucible unactivated.)

No, because it's obvious that he changed his stance AFTER getting half burnt to a crisp. The man tried to take control before the Crucible arrived because he DID NOT KNOW it was needed to take control. After he failed (more so because he was indoctrinated) he assumed correctly that he needed the Crucible to do so.

He doesn't realize he's indoctrinated unless Shepard makes him realize it, thus why he shot himself in the head rather then executes Anderson and Shepard shoots him.

Anyone could've opened the arms of the Citadel, you don't need to be clear of indoctrination to do that.

I don't understand that view point.  We know nothing about what TIM has done since he fled for the Citadel. The next and last time we meet him in the Citadel control room when he walks in on Anderson and Shepard.

The reason I think that TIM can't open the arms of the Citadel is because of what Shepard says when you choose "then end it":

Shepard: Use the crucible to control them.  End this war.
TIM: Don't presume to tell me what to do.  I'll execute my plan when and how I want to.
Shepard: You can't, can you? They won't let you do it.

The reapers don't want the crucible activated.

Modifié par Cazlee, 27 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[Cazlee]

Es0 wrote...


Since it hasn't been posted yet, I zoomed into the eyes 400% and they look pretty similar to me.

Cool, thanks. You can even see the double Iris in this picture.

[Emerald69]

It's idiotic when people who don't understand a theory, try to disprove it.

[Cazlee]

Emerald69 wrote...

It's idiotic when people who don't understand a theory, try to disprove it.

The "it was all a dream" theory creates a lose/lose/lose situation no matter which choice you take. I think it's idiotic that people buy into it.

Modifié par Cazlee, 27 mars 2012 - 04:19 .

[Turkeysock]

Cazlee wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

Did you change your stance from "Why would TIM want to open the arms for the Crucible. He thinks the Crucible will destroy the Reapers, hence he doesn't open the arms to the Citadel?"

Because I've been responding to you based mainly on that first statement. TIM tries to open the arms of the citadel so that it can power the crucible (given the right dialogue options), but he realizes that he cannot perform the task because the reapers have full control of him. Because Shepard can do this, Shepard is not indoctrinated at this point.(Unless you believe the whole thing is a dream, in which case your game ends with the Reapers still on Earth and the crucible unactivated.)

No, because it's obvious that he changed his stance AFTER getting half burnt to a crisp. The man tried to take control before the Crucible arrived because he DID NOT KNOW it was needed to take control. After he failed (more so because he was indoctrinated) he assumed correctly that he needed the Crucible to do so.

He doesn't realize he's indoctrinated unless Shepard makes him realize it, thus why he shot himself in the head rather then executes Anderson and Shepard shoots him.

Anyone could've opened the arms of the Citadel, you don't need to be clear of indoctrination to do that.

I don't understand that view point.  We know nothing about what TIM has done since he fled for the Citadel. The next and last time we meet him in the Citadel control room when he walks in on Anderson and Shepard.

The reason I think that TIM can't open the arms of the Citadel is because of what Shepard says when you choose "then end it":

Shepard: Use the crucible to control them.  End this war.
TIM: Don't presume to tell me what to do.  I'll execute my plan when and how I want to.
Shepard: You can't, can you? They won't let you do it.

The reapers don't want the crucible activated.

You posted a picture of him already at the end. Half of his face looks like Shepards if you chose to do the Control ending.

So yes, I can figure out what he tried to do, and the Star Child even confirms that TIM already tried to take control before but failed.

TIM couldn't open the Citadel arms before because he didn't try until he thought that it was needed.

[Cazlee]

I never thought of it that way because how could he have tried without the crucible powered up?
He's more machine than Shepard is and his eyes were always proof of that. He's injured and his circuitry is showing.
The child also says that Shepard is the first organic to stand that 3 end choice room, which means TIM never entered that area.

Child: The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever, proves it.

Modifié par Cazlee, 27 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

Cazlee wrote...

Emerald69 wrote...

It's idiotic when people who don't understand a theory, try to disprove it.

The "it was all a dream" theory creates a lose/lose/lose situation no matter which choice you take. I think it's idiotic that people buy into it.

How? The destroy ending fights off the indoctrination, and can show Shepard regaining consciousness. How is that a "lose" situation?

[Turkeysock]

Cazlee wrote...

I never thought of it that way because how could he have tried without the crucible powered up?
He's more machine than Shepard is and his eyes were always proof of that. He's injured and his circuitry is showing.
The child also says that Shepard is the first organic to stand that 3 end choice room, which means TIM never entered that area.

Child: The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever, proves it.

First, the ending is obviously full of crappy writing.

Second, the only way he could have gotten that face at the end, was by trying to control already.

Third, he got his eyes because he came into contact with Reaper tech in the ME comic Evolution, as I've already pointed out.

Fourth, I think that the Cerberus scientist who put implants into TIM would have noticed all that circutry in him.

And Fifth, for the last time NO ONE KNEW WHAT THE CRUCIBLE DOES. Not the Reapers, the Protheans, or any race before that knew what the Crucible did. We know what it does, because we saw it.  But that was the first time the Crucible was ever docked with the Citadel! So how on earth would TIM know he needed it before hand unless he already tried and failed?

[Cazlee]

DJCS wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

Emerald69 wrote...

It's idiotic when people who don't understand a theory, try to disprove it.

The "it was all a dream" theory creates a lose/lose/lose situation no matter which choice you take. I think it's idiotic that people buy into it.

How? The destroy ending fights off the indoctrination, and can show Shepard regaining consciousness. How is that a "lose" situation?

Because the reapers are still on earth and the citadel arms still aren't open to allow the crucible to power up.

[Cazlee]

Turkeysock wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

I never thought of it that way because how could he have tried without the crucible powered up?
He's more machine than Shepard is and his eyes were always proof of that. He's injured and his circuitry is showing.
The child also says that Shepard is the first organic to stand that 3 end choice room, which means TIM never entered that area.

Child: The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever, proves it.

First, the ending is obviously full of crappy writing.

Second, the only way he could have gotten that face at the end, was by trying to control already.

Third, he got his eyes because he came into contact with Reaper tech in the ME comic Evolution, as I've already pointed out.

Fourth, I think that the Cerberus scientist who put implants into TIM would have noticed all that circutry in him.

And Fifth, for the last time NO ONE KNEW WHAT THE CRUCIBLE DOES. Not the Reapers, the Protheans, or any race before that knew what the Crucible did. We know what it does, because we saw it.  But that was the first time the Crucible was ever docked with the Citadel! So how on earth would TIM know he needed it before hand unless he already tried and failed?

But I posted the picture where TIM clearly states that the crucible will allow him to control the reapers...
we're now going in circles so I will agree to disagree on this.

[Ravenmyste]

Es0 wrote...


Since it hasn't been posted yet, I zoomed into the eyes 400% and they look pretty similar to me.

eso its already been proved that the blue you are seeing is the final stages of indoctrination and the green that we saw in me2 and some what of 1 mind you was in the very first stages of his indoctrinate after the comic and the artbook explains about his eyes, but as you progressed thru ME3 you saw the eyes starting to turn blue very very light tint but still holding the green up till he you see him on the citadel after he dies you can see the light blue and white of the earth shining off his eyes hence why the blue eye has more blured look to it like he looking at the earth before he dies, while the green doesnt show anyhting of the sort in the except the light from what ever is shining on his eye in the green pic.

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 27 mars 2012 - 04:48 .

[Turkeysock]

Cazlee wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

I never thought of it that way because how could he have tried without the crucible powered up?
He's more machine than Shepard is and his eyes were always proof of that. He's injured and his circuitry is showing.
The child also says that Shepard is the first organic to stand that 3 end choice room, which means TIM never entered that area.

Child: The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever, proves it.

First, the ending is obviously full of crappy writing.

Second, the only way he could have gotten that face at the end, was by trying to control already.

Third, he got his eyes because he came into contact with Reaper tech in the ME comic Evolution, as I've already pointed out.

Fourth, I think that the Cerberus scientist who put implants into TIM would have noticed all that circutry in him.

And Fifth, for the last time NO ONE KNEW WHAT THE CRUCIBLE DOES. Not the Reapers, the Protheans, or any race before that knew what the Crucible did. We know what it does, because we saw it.  But that was the first time the Crucible was ever docked with the Citadel! So how on earth would TIM know he needed it before hand unless he already tried and failed?

But I posted the picture where TIM clearly states that the crucible will allow him to control the reapers...
we're now going in circles so I will agree to disagree on this.

Yes, and I pointed out that AGAIN, his face shows he attempted to try it, failed, and then came to the conclusion that he needed the Crucible. The one going around in circles is you Cazlee...

[DextroDNA]

Cazlee wrote...

IT theory leaves no way to disprove it because "it was all a dream." How can you disprove a dream?

Unschuld wrote...

  

Are we allowing dreams into evidence now? How can I defend my innocence against this kind of testimony...

Edit:  The breath scene is powerful, and it's the one reason I liked the idea of the theory. I think it is an interesting concept if the green and blue paths lead to indoctrination, but if that were the case the game would have strongly hinted at that in the endings. Since the green path only opens with high EMS it doesn't quite make sense for all of our "extra" hard work to be  rewarded with yet another indoctrination ending (besides blue assuming it's true). I feel like most of the other reasons to support the theory are really stretching the facts or they are assumptions.  If you agree with the indoc theory, then the below information will probably just annoy you. I've updated it a little to make it less annoying for you. You can dispute it, or instead, if you want, post the one evidence from the theory that makes you believe in it.

Here are reasons I trust that Shepard is not indoctrinated:

-The proof that the 'starchild' is telling the truth is that all of the ending choices do exactly what starchild says they will. [I'll withdraw this since apparently not even the grandfather scene showing *humans* at peace in the future is considered real.]

-The proof that Shepard is not indoctrinated is that the prothean AI does not detect indoctrination in her, and because she is able to open the citadel, the necessary and final step in order to activate the crucible. That is the ultimate test  that TIM fails. (neutral option - TIM literally cannot complete the final step, and this is how he realises he is indoctrinated.) [I have quoted the VI exactly in this thread - there is no evidence to believe his detection system is imperfect. That is an assumption made by the theory people and labeled as proof.]

-Whenever Shepard is being controlled there are wavy lines in her vision. (Like when she is forced to shoot Anderston). The wavy lines are gone completely when TIM dies.

-If Shepard were truly indoctrinated, she would not be able to destroy the reapers (in the same way TIM could not interact with the citadel control panel). Because the red (destroy) option exists is again proof that she is not indoctrinated.

Quoting your entire post to dissprove every point you made...

-TIM was indoctrinated, we know that - and yet he could access the Prothean VI. The VI even said it's security defences had been breached, therefore an Indoctrinated Shepard still would've been able to use it.

-Your second point actually points in favour of the IT. The Illusive Man was part of the Indoctrination, the dark part of Shepard's mind telling him to give in. When he dies, the wavy lines representing Indoctrination go away. Then the Indoctrination makes one final push as the Starchild, and it suceeds unless you pick Destruction.

-This final point is completely and utterly invalid. If Shepard was Indoctrainted (which is more than likely), it means the entire part after getting hit by Harbinger's laser would've been a dream. That's why nothing makes any logical sense in the last 10 minutes - Bioware are NOT stupid enough to not make things like that make sense. The Destroy ending is Shepard beating the Indoctrination, which is further proved by the fact that you only get the "breath" scene (which is obviously on Earth, there's STONE RUBBLE and a turned over Mako in the background) if you picked the Destroy ending.

This thread should be locked because all your points are invalid.

EDIT: I wish people would stop saying the ending was crappy writing. It was brilliant writing, because it got you all thinking. And it fooled you all, because there was subtle hints throughout the ENTIRE GAME that Shepard was Indoctrinated. Bioware were very VERY clever with the ending.

Modifié par RussianZombeh, 27 mars 2012 - 04:56 .

[XRelakX]

Lol you guys are so funny taking everything that you see in the game that is "small" such as eyes.Something that i can add to the IT is that no1 seems to remember that if you went paragon in ME1 you had Saren and you could convince him to kill himself (even while indoctrinated)..same happens in ME3 with TIM (even while indoctrinated)..What i mean is if these 2 guys that were indoctrinated could realise that they were and kill themself..then i can imagine Shepard resisting more than they if the actual IT is true (not just by some blue eyes or red or brown it doesnt matter).

On the other hand if we are talking about indoctrination and the only possible solution is to destroy the synthetics (i dont see how that is the safe one..as you will kill every single synthetic)..i would like to mention that in the starchild scene you get to choose 3 options that are given by the starchild not because you wanted..so even if you choose destroy you will be doing what they wanted..and not what you really wanted.

Btw if we go a lil more than just ME3 ..we realise that IT could be applied since ME1..and in ME2 after the collectors attacked what if wasnt cerberus who rebuilded you..but instead the reapers did.IT can be used on so many parts of the game because of what the trilogy was about..reapers and indoctrinated people..but it doesnt mean is true or not.

[Turkeysock]

RussianZombeh wrote...
EDIT: I wish people would stop saying the ending was crappy writing. It was brilliant writing, because it got you all thinking. And it fooled you all, because there was subtle hints throughout the ENTIRE GAME that Shepard was Indoctrinated. Bioware were very VERY clever with the ending.

If they just tack on "closure" and not actually do something with the ending, it's crappy writting.

If they did this as a PR stunt to drum up more attention to a DLC with the real ending, brilliant.

[Cazlee]

Turkeysock wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

I never thought of it that way because how could he have tried without the crucible powered up?
He's more machine than Shepard is and his eyes were always proof of that. He's injured and his circuitry is showing.
The child also says that Shepard is the first organic to stand that 3 end choice room, which means TIM never entered that area.

Child: The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever, proves it.

First, the ending is obviously full of crappy writing.

Second, the only way he could have gotten that face at the end, was by trying to control already.

Third, he got his eyes because he came into contact with Reaper tech in the ME comic Evolution, as I've already pointed out.

Fourth, I think that the Cerberus scientist who put implants into TIM would have noticed all that circutry in him.

And Fifth, for the last time NO ONE KNEW WHAT THE CRUCIBLE DOES. Not the Reapers, the Protheans, or any race before that knew what the Crucible did. We know what it does, because we saw it.  But that was the first time the Crucible was ever docked with the Citadel! So how on earth would TIM know he needed it before hand unless he already tried and failed?

But I posted the picture where TIM clearly states that the crucible will allow him to control the reapers...
we're now going in circles so I will agree to disagree on this.

Yes, and I pointed out that AGAIN, his face shows he attempted to try it, failed, and then came to the conclusion that he needed the Crucible. The one going around in circles is you Cazlee...

Fine, I guess.
1. How many game quotes are you going to reject because it doesn't fit your assumptions?
2. That's an assumption, not fact.  TIM's scars show circuitry where Shepard's is just burned.
3. What matters is that his eyes are inhuman.
4. If the scientist knows, what is the significance?
5. TIM obviously knows. He's done far more research on the crucible than Shepard.  The prothean VI also explains how their people split into two groups on how to use the crucible: destruction vs. control. When Shepard notes that we are facing the same issue in this cycle, the VI states that these patterns every cycle happen too frequently to be considered coincidence.

Modifié par Cazlee, 27 mars 2012 - 05:02 .

[Dendio1]

IT theory leaves no way to disprove it because "it was all a dream." How can you disprove a dream?

By proving it was not a dream. Take our arguments and find information against the evidence we present. People have been unable to do as much for weeks. If you cannot disprove the theory, I urge you to consider its validity. Join us.

[DraCZeQQ]

RussianZombeh wrote...
Quoting your entire post to dissprove every point you made...

-TIM was indoctrinated, we know that - and yet he could access the Prothean VI. The VI even said it's security defences had been breached, therefore an Indoctrinated Shepard still would've been able to use it.

Why would prothean VI not warn squadmates that Sheppard is indoctrinated, or did TIM also program that into VI to not tell ... sounds like a lot of trouble, especially if TIM didnt expect Sheppard in his secret base ...

EDIT: Not to mention, that neither Javik nor Liara were able to sense any change in Sheppard (even tho both has the ability to, im pretty sure that rewriting neural pathways cause by Indoctrination would be something they would notice)

RussianZombeh wrote...
-Your second point actually points in favour of the IT. The Illusive Man was part of the Indoctrination, the dark part of Shepard's mind telling him to give in. When he dies, the wavy lines representing Indoctrination go away. Then the Indoctrination makes one final push as the Starchild, and it suceeds unless you pick Destruction.

Black lines = TIM using his modified mind control based on indoctrination to control Sheppard and Anderson (he kinda researched that stuff, he even explicitly states that its him controlling Sheppard and Anderson), so if TIM dies, his grip over Sheppard and Anderson is lost as well as the "you are mind controlled" black lines ...

RussianZombeh wrote...
-This final point is completely and utterly invalid. If Shepard was Indoctrainted (which is more than likely), it means the entire part after getting hit by Harbinger's laser would've been a dream. That's why nothing makes any logical sense in the last 10 minutes - Bioware are NOT stupid enough to not make things like that make sense. The Destroy ending is Shepard beating the Indoctrination, which is further proved by the fact that you only get the "breath" scene (which is obviously on Earth, there's STONE RUBBLE and a turned over Mako in the background) if you picked the Destroy ending.

This is purely your ASSUMPTION that Bioware would not make things that doesn't make sense, yet there is ton of evidence that Bioware has no problem making things that MAKE NO SENSE (even butcher lore) for the sake of "moment" (over use of Rule of Cool)

RussianZombeh wrote...
This thread should be locked because all your points are invalid.

EDIT: I wish people would stop saying the ending was crappy writing. It was brilliant writing, because it got you all thinking. And it fooled you all, because there was subtle hints throughout the ENTIRE GAME that Shepard was Indoctrinated. Bioware were very VERY clever with the ending.

All points are valid, it basicly comes to single premise

IT believes Bioware are still masters of storyteling running some elaborate scam with their customers

Rest believes that Bioware is above average but ordinary game making company, that botched last 10 minutes for sake of "philosophy" or some intelectual message

Modifié par DraCZeQQ, 27 mars 2012 - 05:17 .

[Turkeysock]

Cazlee wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

I never thought of it that way because how could he have tried without the crucible powered up?
He's more machine than Shepard is and his eyes were always proof of that. He's injured and his circuitry is showing.
The child also says that Shepard is the first organic to stand that 3 end choice room, which means TIM never entered that area.

Child: The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever, proves it.

First, the ending is obviously full of crappy writing.

Second, the only way he could have gotten that face at the end, was by trying to control already.

Third, he got his eyes because he came into contact with Reaper tech in the ME comic Evolution, as I've already pointed out.

Fourth, I think that the Cerberus scientist who put implants into TIM would have noticed all that circutry in him.

And Fifth, for the last time NO ONE KNEW WHAT THE CRUCIBLE DOES. Not the Reapers, the Protheans, or any race before that knew what the Crucible did. We know what it does, because we saw it.  But that was the first time the Crucible was ever docked with the Citadel! So how on earth would TIM know he needed it before hand unless he already tried and failed?

But I posted the picture where TIM clearly states that the crucible will allow him to control the reapers...
we're now going in circles so I will agree to disagree on this.

Yes, and I pointed out that AGAIN, his face shows he attempted to try it, failed, and then came to the conclusion that he needed the Crucible. The one going around in circles is you Cazlee...

Fine, I guess.
1. How many game quotes are you going to reject because it doesn't fit your assumptions?
2. That's an assumption, not fact.  TIM's scars show circuitry where Shepard's is just burned.
3. What matters is that his eyes are inhuman.
4. If the scientist knows, what is the significance?
5. TIM obviously knows. He's done far more research on the crucible than Shepard.  The prothean VI also explains how their people split into two groups on how to use the crucible: destruction vs. control. When Shepard notes that we are facing the same issue in this cycle, the VI states that these patterns every cycle happen too frequently to be considered coincidence.

1. I ignore anything said by the Starchild because everything he's said doesn't make sense.
2. It's not an assumption, TIM's scars look identical to Shepard's, just that since Shepard completed the Control function, there was no time for the tech to appear on him/her.
3. He gained his "inhuman" eyes through Reaper contact
4. The scientist would've mentioned it somewhere
5. Again, no one has used the crucible before, so no one can truly know what it could do. Why you keep ignoring that, which is a FACT, is beyond me. The Prothean VI says that the Control group sabatouged their Crucible before it was ever completed. We don't know if this happened every cycle, but we can stipulate that similar events have happened.

[FemmeShep]

Serious question:

How would Indoc work anyways? Because essentially, the theory states that Shep is being indoctrinated and is basically being tested. Each choice is a step in the direction of being indoctrinated except Destroy. Destroy would be the correct option, the one that would save Shep from being taken.

Okay...

So if there is DLC ending to follow up after the Indoctrination fails, and Shep wakes up. All the people that chose the (Synth and Control) don't get to play it? How would they implement this. Because essentially, Indoctrination only has ONE correct choice that would allow the player to continue on with DLC. The others don't.

So...how does that work for everyone else....

I just can't fathom that BioWare would make an ending, that requires one right choice, that would hinder future DLC. Doesn't add up tbh.

[Bloodhound66]

The IT debate is irrelevant to the wanting of a new ending. I still want more closure, but I think that the IT is a more cheap out than the ending than we have so far, and personally disagree it's the case with ME3. If they make us pay for the ending of a series we've already invested close to $250.00 (with all the DLC and games), than that makes BW potentially the most selfish game company to date. If they give it to us for free, it should have been there in the first place.

Also, in the statement from Ray Maszyuka (sp? I don't know and don't really care) he confirms that there will be "follow up content to further explain the ending's events," or something like that, (so I think the line has won actually) and that "BW is shocked with the outburst from the community."

So if they intentionally gave us a game that they KNEW wasn't completely finished, and never gave us warning, why is it a shock that their is an outcry from the community? I'd assume if they wanted people to think, "Shepard is indoctrinated and the game isn't over," that they would be prepared with a statement like "Wait till you see what comes next..." or something of the sorts, given the inevitable shock following the endings events.

This say's to me that it was just a rushed end, and we'll get some DLC with a few more video's or extra montage's of the each species towards the end.

This, to me, is how my ME3 journey came to a satisfying closure:

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Bloodhound66, 27 mars 2012 - 05:20 .

[DraCZeQQ]

Turkeysock wrote...

3. He gained his "inhuman" eyes through Reaper contact

5. Again, no one has used the crucible before, so no one can truly know what it could do. Why you keep ignoring that, which is a FACT, is beyond me. The Prothean VI says that the Control group sabatouged their Crucible before it was ever completed. We don't know if this happened every cycle, but we can stipulate that similar events have happened.

3. Any real source that will confirm this assumption?
5. Actually Crucible was used before (we can even asume that it was used many times) as was stated in game, it was never enough, thats why they had to add The Catalyst (ie. something that would magnify power of the Crucible)

[Cazlee]

RussianZombeh wrote...
Quoting your entire post to dissprove every point you made...

-TIM was indoctrinated, we know that - and yet he could access the Prothean VI. The VI even said it's security defences had been breached, therefore an Indoctrinated Shepard still would've been able to use it.

The VI says that TIM had to break through the security protocols to access the information, Shepard did not have to do the same during the first interaction with the VI (though it possibly does not matter in the second interaction).

-Your second point actually points in favour of the IT. The Illusive Man was part of the Indoctrination, the dark part of Shepard's mind telling him to give in. When he dies, the wavy lines representing Indoctrination go away. Then the Indoctrination makes one final push as the Starchild, and it suceeds unless you pick Destruction.
How does the control manifest itself between those two moments? (Anderson dying, opening the citadel arms)

-This final point is completely and utterly invalid. If Shepard was Indoctrainted (which is more than likely), it means the entire part after getting hit by Harbinger's laser would've been a dream. That's why nothing makes any logical sense in the last 10 minutes - Bioware are NOT stupid enough to not make things like that make sense. The Destroy ending is Shepard beating the Indoctrination, which is further proved by the fact that you only get the "breath" scene (which is obviously on Earth, there's STONE RUBBLE and a turned over Mako in the background) if you picked the Destroy ending.

That means that the reapers are still destroying earth, and the crucible weapon has not been activated. Is this how Bioware ended the Mass Effect franchise? Is this good writing? Shepard is alive, but accomplishes no more than what he would in the green and blue endings assuming both of those end in indoctrination and death.

This thread should be locked because all your points are invalid.

Modifié par Cazlee, 27 mars 2012 - 05:27 .