281 réponses à ce sujet

[Destrega]

At some point Bioware (i'd peg it right around DA2 lol) went from making great games, to making good enough games.
Honestly its disappointing more than anything, but i have faith in the gaming world that another Dev will rise up and bring me great game/s before they're bought out and forced to churn out creative gruel aswell.

[orangesonic]

EA wants something that sells like coca-cola, not masterpieces.... takes too much time crossing the raibow to take the pot of gold...

[orangesonic]

DA2 was garbage... how many times did we go to the same place with a different name when playing that... the game-play... it`s the same as the main menu ``PRESS ONE BUTTON TO START``

[TheGeordie]

You can't use the comparative time between ME1 and 2 and ME2 and 3 as a comparison to say "where's the rush?" - studio's shuffle teams around all the time to help where needed - it's more than likely that some of the ME3 team were working on DA2 and / or PC conversions (or basically something other than ME3) for a lot of the time. There's no way in hell ME3 (with all the technology and development pipelines already made with ME2) took 3.5 years.

Concerning adding a year to development - yes, it costs a lot of money, but if ever there was a safe bet that was going to sell millions, it was ME3 - they should have taken the time to get it right - it would have led to a lot more sales (instead of places like amazon offering money back) and stopped the brand / studio reputation damage they have endured instead.

As always though, it will have been EA - they have share holders to keep happy who simply do not see value in spending time creatively. Get it out in whatever shape it's in, in the allocated financial quarter and screw everything else.

[Hendrik.III]

EA must have seen the huge amount of pre-orders, including special and collector editions. There was a huge hoard of money waiting to be cashed in at release. They wanted it cashed in before the end of the fiscal year, which is good for their reputation on the market.

Well, they f***ed up.

[Mr Arg]

Wow, someone in this subforum who isn't full of rage. Nice work, OP!

Also, if bioware can't break themselves off of EA (because of a contract or whatever), then I hope they go the route of Bungie and "dismantle", and sell all their rights to "Biogames" (or whatever) which is just comprised of (what recently were) Bioware employees... and stay EA free forever.

Modifié par Mr Arg, 27 mars 2012 - 12:28 .

[hagren]

The amount of dialogue that is in the game, coupled with all the little weapon mods et al does not point me to a rushed game. The GFX were pretty shoddy sometimes, and there are too many auto-answers, but apart from that, this was the first time I felt compelled to complete everything that the game had to offer, which means that I spent more time with 1 ME3 playthrough than I did with 3 ME1s.

Speaking of which- ME1 had a longer dev time than both ME2 or ME3, yet it still was incredibly lazy rather often, with level modules, assets, textures and dialog being constantly re-used.

As for the beginning of the game- yes that was lame, it was too linear and boxy for around 3 hours.
But apart from the death scene, ME2 started kind of lame, too, with a rather bland tutorial level and the quite unimpressive Freedom's Progress. And I say that as someone who is in love with the game.

Modifié par hagren, 27 mars 2012 - 12:35 .

[FlyinElk212]

Tali's face should be up here as well.

[Adam2190]

You make some great points but i can live with a lot of it. I do however wish there was a lot more content on Thessia. No need to say anything about the ending and the meaningless choices you made throughout the triogy.

Modifié par Adam2190, 27 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[humes spork]

This may just be me, but I find it highly...telling...that someone in the space of one post complains about how approximately half Shepard's potentially-recruitable companions can be dead before you can recruit them -- or refuse to join -- and that choices made over the course of the trilogy don't matter.

[yuurheen]

well ea already killed westwood and is slowly killing dice. if you thought bioware to be different you were naive.

[Raptr569]

This is all probably true, reading the final hour app through it says they were stuck for time.

Javik was cut from the game due to time and it wouldn't surprise me if other things were too.

[NightHawkIL]

Here are my thoughts on the subject which I posted the other day:

I finally brought myself to start a second play through after a week
and a half trying to forget the ending, and I'm realizing just how
terrible the side quests are. There has to be close to 100 fetch
quests that don't even have so much as an interactive conversation to
buffer the boredom. Add to that the half dozen loading screens that
are required to go retrieve an item and the flow of what little
motivation there might have been is totally extinguished.

Compare this games side quests to ME1&2 and they fall woefully short. Not
a single quest in ME3 has enough work put into it to have a unique
location in the galaxy. There were dozens - perhaps a hundred
locations between ME1&2 that you would never see just by sticking
to the primary quests. What happened in this game? I would rather no
side quests at all than what we have been given. Completing them
gives no entertainment whatsoever.

Between the poor ending, vast auto dialog, and the worthless side quests, I'm
becoming more and more of the opinion that ME3 was planned to contain
much more content in all aspects, but fell far short in the time
required. One of the most telling flaws that shows the game was
released far from completion is the journal that does not update with
changes in quest parameters. That is a flaw that simply could not be
missed. The only reasonable explanation is that it was given just
barely enough effort that it looks finished at a passing glance. I
believe that is the case for the quests and dialog as well, and that
more interactive conversations and quests were planned, but made
automatic to save time.

If my theory is in fact true, it sure would be nice if BioWare continued
working to release the completed quests and conversations in future
DLC. Even if the ending is entirely remade, it's going to be very
difficult to get myself to complete a new play through that finishes
every side quest. I find myself getting tired of playing and ready to
turn off the console, only to realize I haven't moved forward at all
in the game, but had spent my entire time running around the Citadel
and waiting for loading screens while trying to get up and down each
level of my ship. It feels like doing homework.

[garf]

Here's another point ... There are many empty rooms on the well realized Normandy. Were they there because they were in too much of a hurry to change the map? or were the intended to house people who they didn't have time to write/import?

or a little from both columns?

[Raizon]

How about the BUGS, BUGS BUGS BUGS.
Multiplayer bugs, campaign bugs, some that are so obvious too.

[Stryder77]

Sadly, this has been the EA way for sometime now. I first remember it happening when they bought out Origin. As a result, the next two Ultima games (which were the best PC RPGs of the time) were rushed, buggy, and lacking the detail and polish all prior titles had. Does that sound familiar? It ended up sinking Origin games. Unfortuantely it seems Bioware is on that same path.

[Alexius]

I agree with OP.

Lack of time is the only reason I can find to explain the ending. To me, Bioware decided to give the game some "closure", leave the plot somewhere easy to continue later and then actually end it with some DLC when there are no more time constraints.

Or maybe I'm wrong, we really got the ending they wanted and... well, I'd be a bit sadder.

[ZLurps]

TheGeordie wrote...

You can't use the comparative time between ME1 and 2 and ME2 and 3 as a comparison to say "where's the rush?" - studio's shuffle teams around all the time to help where needed - it's more than likely that some of the ME3 team were working on DA2 and / or PC conversions (or basically something other than ME3) for a lot of the time. There's no way in hell ME3 (with all the technology and development pipelines already made with ME2) took 3.5 years.

Concerning adding a year to development - yes, it costs a lot of money, but if ever there was a safe bet that was going to sell millions, it was ME3 - they should have taken the time to get it right - it would have led to a lot more sales (instead of places like amazon offering money back) and stopped the brand / studio reputation damage they have endured instead.

As always though, it will have been EA - they have share holders to keep happy who simply do not see value in spending time creatively. Get it out in whatever shape it's in, in the allocated financial quarter and screw everything else.

And it was evil EA that forced them to do that?

Again, Ray Muzyka is the CEO at BioWare Corps as well as a Senior Vice President and General Manager of the BioWare Label of EA (comprising BioWare Edmonton, BioWare Austin, BioWare Montreal, BioWare Ireland, BioWare Victory, BioWare San Francisco, BioWare Sacramento and Mythic Entertainment, now BioWare Mythic) at BioWare's parent company Electronic Arts.

Greg Zeschuk is a Vice Predisent at EA and General Manager at BioWare Austin, a studio within the BioWare Label - BioWare corps and EA.

These guys founded BioWare and they are responsible for revenue of products released under BioWare label. Hudson doesn't go to ask from John Riccitiello if he could get more time to complete the product, he goes to Muzyka.

Modifié par ZLurps, 27 mars 2012 - 01:10 .

[bboynexus]

The smaller squad size was a conscious design choice, and an extremely good one at that.

[heathxxx]

Blackmind1 wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Maybe OP, maybe.

Or maybe BioWare is moving in a new direction with developing their games, where they are more focused on telling the main plot, and less concerned with world/story immersion. We saw a similar style for DA2.

Sadly, I think this is something that we will continue to see. I think EA buying them out, is certainly an influence. There is a lot about ME3 that comes off as surface, lacking depth.

DAII was an Origins expansion pack that EA made them rush/pad out a bit and put out as DAII. The original logo was found in its game files. You don't think it weird that it only took a year to make? It was originally known as DA: Exodus. It seems like it was supposed to set the tone for the world war of DAII, which is now known as DAIII.

Interesting and I wasn't aware of that.

Does go a long way to explaining why the game in itself, was simply so poor. Essentially what started out as an expansion, had some lipstick slapped on it, but still turned out looking like a pig.

[ZLurps]

bboynexus wrote...

The smaller squad size was a conscious design choice, and an extremely good one at that.

I think in general ME3 is excellent game, there is always something because players aren't totally homogenous group by anymeans, for me Eve stuff doesn't present BioWare at it's best and neither do EDI. Those are minor gripe however.

I think one reason for the almost universal hate towards the ending comes from good flow of ME3 before it turns to mess it is. Build up is great and feeds expectations. Then...

[bboynexus]

I thought Eve was decent enough, though I'm not sure why you'd find EDI less than satisfactory.

[Messi Kossmann]

wtbusername wrote...

So now the entire game was purposefully rushed?

It's impossible for a developer to want to NOT make a sequel the exact same thing as the previous game.

Jesus, I'm pretty fcking close to being done with BSN. Worst fanbase ever.

I agree ... Even the Hamster is reason to criticize ... 

[Messi Kossmann]

ZLurps wrote...

Mass Effect 1 was released in November 2007
Mass Effect 2 was released in January 2010
Time between release of ME1 and ME2: Approx. 25 months.

Mass Effect 3 was released in March 2012
Time between release of ME2 and ME3: Approx 26 months.

Where's the rush?

We have less side missions, less squad mates (both which imo are good for pacing of game) and BioWare could recycle character models and other resources from ME2.

Again, where's the rush?

[TheGeordie]

>> These guys founded BioWare and they are responsible for revenue of
products released under BioWare label. Hudson doesn't go to ask from
John Riccitiello if he could get more time to complete the product, he
goes to Muzyka.

And Muzkya goes to Riccitiello who then goes to board of directors who then go to the shareholders who then say no.

Bioware *ARE* EA now. They only operate under the Bioware name because the brand has an inherent value about it. If it didn't they would have been rebranded a long time ago immediately after they were bought.

Decisions about when to release a product are made by the entire board of directors of which Ray and Greg are only two. EDIT: Actually, I tell a lie - Ray and Greg are not part of the EA board of
directors, who ultimately decide when games come out:
http://investor.ea.com/directors.cfm


To thing Bioware function as an independant unit with no outside influence from the parent company is very wrong.

ZLurps wrote...

TheGeordie wrote...

You can't use the comparative time between ME1 and 2 and ME2 and 3 as a comparison to say "where's the rush?" - studio's shuffle teams around all the time to help where needed - it's more than likely that some of the ME3 team were working on DA2 and / or PC conversions (or basically something other than ME3) for a lot of the time. There's no way in hell ME3 (with all the technology and development pipelines already made with ME2) took 3.5 years.

Concerning adding a year to development - yes, it costs a lot of money, but if ever there was a safe bet that was going to sell millions, it was ME3 - they should have taken the time to get it right - it would have led to a lot more sales (instead of places like amazon offering money back) and stopped the brand / studio reputation damage they have endured instead.

As always though, it will have been EA - they have share holders to keep happy who simply do not see value in spending time creatively. Get it out in whatever shape it's in, in the allocated financial quarter and screw everything else.

And it was evil EA that forced them to do that?

Again, Ray Muzyka is the CEO at BioWare Corps as well as a Senior Vice President and General Manager of the BioWare Label of EA (comprising BioWare Edmonton, BioWare Austin, BioWare Montreal, BioWare Ireland, BioWare Victory, BioWare San Francisco, BioWare Sacramento and Mythic Entertainment, now BioWare Mythic) at BioWare's parent company Electronic Arts.

Greg Zeschuk is a Vice Predisent at EA and General Manager at BioWare Austin, a studio within the BioWare Label - BioWare corps and EA.

These guys founded BioWare and they are responsible for revenue of products released under BioWare label. Hudson doesn't go to ask from John Riccitiello if he could get more time to complete the product, he goes to Muzyka.

Modifié par TheGeordie, 27 mars 2012 - 01:40 .