281 réponses à ce sujet

[hanshotfirs]

Well said!

[Solmanian]

That a big pile of speculation. You weren't on trial at the beggining, because if you didn't play arrival hacket sends a bunch of marines and they blow up the relay instead of you. So its pointless to shove a trial in the beggining if it didn't neccessarily happen... And yeah the squad is suppose to be more intimate than ME2's. I loved all the ME2 squadies, but their gameplay role overlapped alot. Here you have defined roles: biotic (liara), tech (EDI), combat/tech (garrus), combat (James), biotic/combat (javik

[Morzak]

Oh man the hate here for some aspects of the game is just unbelievable. The Start of the Game was a bit rushed but honestly it was done decently, expect for some broken lore (Normandy SR-2 in Atmo etc.) And to the question abut why they didn't here sooner from the reapers, they even say that most communication to colonies and fleets outside the Sol system was down. And as soon as the Reapers use a Relay they are pretty fast to reach sol. It's pretty short so it's ok. Mars is way better then Freedom Progress. After Mars / Palavan the Game really gets going and the mission are incredible. Thessia for me was great. And for my part i liked that many conversations were not interactive and just happen as you pass by, somehow feels more natural. Earth could have been done better but was still satisfying up until Marauder Shields The Scanning Side quests are a bit lame but hey so were a good part of ME1 side quests and don't talk to me about the ME2 scanning.

The Side quests, uhm yeah ME1 had a ton in 2 different locations, on the same bad and lazily designed Planets. Most of them weren't really that special and were: Fly To Planet --> Drive Mako over Planet --> Enter Building Design A or B ---> shoot.
In ME2 most side quests were incredible short, and really not that interesting for the most part.

The N7 Missions in ME3 i actually enjoyed and the Sidemission on Ranoch Tuchanka etc were really good. Liked that most of those mission had a Character from 2 in it.

And let's not forget ME1 had some pacing Issues, the whole Citadel thing was to overwhelming/long . Then your Enemy Saren is present about 10% of the game. Sorry the Planet Exploring etc. just didn't mix with a plot where you hunt down a opponent under time pressure. Oh and ME1 felt lazy as hell in some areas, especially side missions and planet exploration.

ME2 had it's own Issues, aka. Not enough Weapons, mods, armor. Zaaed was also release DLC (but at least he was included in all copies of ME2). The whole Squad banter was gone, but presentation and Game play improved.

ME3 has by far the best presentation and Gameplay of the series. The interaction with Squadmates feels more natural, because they actually move about on the Normandy and on the Citadel. Squad Banter is back. For me ME3 even with the last 10-15 min is the best game of the series.

And Bioware is EA, if you sell the Company to EA you're responsible for accepting their business practices.

[humes spork]

Mvin wrote...

I'm not sure it had (though I might be wrong here). Still, ME2 had much more content  (recruitment & loyalty missions) and seemed more detailed in almost every way.

Do yourself a favor. After having played ME3, go back and play ME2 again. That's what I'm doing right now, to get my adept into ME3, and the difference is clear as daylight.

The dialog is shorter, the missions are shorter and way more linear. The only sphere in which ME2 has ME3 trumped is quantity, because quality, length and variability sure aren't on the radar. That, and difficulty. Contrary to what BW promised, ME2 is way harder not because enemies are more powerful or numerous but because Shepard is much weaker. I actually find veteran in ME2 much more difficult than insanity in ME3.

Modifié par humes spork, 27 mars 2012 - 02:19 .

[TheGeordie]

Have you got the article that picture is from please? That's very interesting but the link looks like it's just a random posting someone made to a file sharing site so it could be completely made up. Would like a bit more proof it's genuine before sending it on to some of my colleagues.

Cheers

BillKephart wrote...

 EA has a horrible history of buying up good studios then imposing absurd deadlines to get games out as fast as possible which drives temporary profits and stock prices. Over time the quality of the games suffer and eventually the "good name" of the company is spent and sales decline. Then EA buys up another studio and does it again. They are basically the reapers of video games. 

Look at this chart EA. This chart means that this is not a good strategy. In the long run giving developers time to make the good game they want to make drives more steady consistent sales that make much more in the long run.

[Salfin]

I agree with a number of your points.

I just want to add/respond too:

Boo the Space Hamster - I was actually delighted to see he had eluded alliance officers by hiding in the cargo/engineering sections of the ship. As a hamster agent of cerberus, he would have likely been a high value detanee.

Love interests - I look at it as more of a running storyarc that began in the first one, I think it's only rational that the prospective pool got smaller, but also a result of the lower squadmates. There also are some consequences based on your previous relationships if you were not loyal to some during the second game, which I thought was a nice touch. You also didn't mention Liara or Tali as LIs.

Modifié par Salfin, 27 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[Noatz]

BioWare could have used a leaf from Blizzard's book with this game. While the Diablo 3 release might feel like Blizzard are a psychotic chicken sitting on their egg and refusing to let it go, its certainly better than what Bioware have done - passing out a malformed fetus.

[Mvin]

Messi Kossmann wrote...

Less enemy variety (reaper ground forces, geth and cerberus vs. batarians, krogans, humans, turians, asari, salarians, vorcha, varren, mechs, husks and geth)
Are you ******* kid me???????????
Salarians, Humans, Turians, Geths, Vorcha and Asari enemies in ME2 are different only in appearance, because the mechanics are absolutely equal.
In ME3 each type of enemy has a different mechanic, and you have to adapt to it 

While they have a similar combat AI, it really did feel different going up against an asari im comparison to a vorcha, don't you think? Not to mention Krogans. Not that I don't like the new enemies, but more often then not it seemed a bit out of place to see Cerberus everywhere in the galaxy (no matter what mission you were on, Cerberus was always there before you, in BULK), because Bioware apparently ran out of other enemies to place there. It's just unrealistic and annoyed me quite some bit while playing.

In ME2 you had lots of Asari enemies on Illium, Krogans and varren on Tuchanka, everything on Omega (orderly in mercenary gangs), batarians and mechs on some random missions, the rare and interesting encounters with Collectors (which i forgot in my list), Husks in the Reaper ship and more... it just felt much more authentic and reflected to variety of the galaxy in Mass Effect quite nicely. While Geth only appear in the Rannoch story arc (which fits), everything else you shoot at is either Cerberus or the Reapers. As I said, quite disappointing.

[BillKephart]

TheGeordie wrote...

Have you got the article that picture is from please? That's very interesting but the link looks like it's just a random posting someone made to a file sharing site so it could be completely made up. Would like a bit more proof it's genuine before sending it on to some of my colleagues.

Cheers

BillKephart wrote...

 EA has a horrible history of buying up good studios then imposing absurd deadlines to get games out as fast as possible which drives temporary profits and stock prices. Over time the quality of the games suffer and eventually the "good name" of the company is spent and sales decline. Then EA buys up another studio and does it again. They are basically the reapers of video games. 

Look at this chart EA. This chart means that this is not a good strategy. In the long run giving developers time to make the good game they want to make drives more steady consistent sales that make much more in the long run.

You can verify the numbers at VGCHARTZ

[LadyWench]

Kanner wrote...

No-one's actually asked Mac if the speculation was supposed to be about EA's management culture and stock price. =/

THIS!

But seriously, I agree with 99.9% of the OP. .1% = I was just happy to recatch my space hamster, I didn't need it to learn tricks while Shep was grounded, LOL. The robodog I got with my CE doing more than walking around and sleeping would have been nice, though. I was HOPING for a mechanized space mabari. Grr. :/

Anyway, I don't think any of the fans are disputing the points you've presented here. I think we've all come to the sad conclusion that this was not of Bioware's usual quality and that it is in many ways a repeat of the issues players had with DA2 (though that release was even worse since it was buggy as hell, majorly halting gameplay for many users). I miss the old days of Neverwinter Nights, when BW could take their sweet time and delay the release date as long as it meant producing a jaw-droppingly spectaculr storygame experience. Now it's all about the Benjamins...boooooo.

[AntonioA9011]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Mvin wrote...



Thus, overall Mass Effect 3 was a rushed and rather disappointing game. It's shocking how almost nobody notices...

im convinced it's because the ending is so bad a lot of people haven't played it more than once yet. I played through tuchanka with two different save files after beating it and was shocked by how much there wasn't left to see compared to ME1 and ME2. Once you're not as caught up in the stories and set pieces the lack of depth realy shines through.

that being said it's still a very very good game. It's just not at all what I expected the final mass effect game to be. I expected it to be better than very good I expected it to be one of the best rpgs I've ever played.

^^^^Mmmm-hmmm. I agree wholeheartedly. My gosh, I had so many high hopes for this game and my expectations were shattered when I began playing.

[Messi Kossmann]

Mvin wrote...

Messi Kossmann wrote...

Less enemy variety (reaper ground forces, geth and cerberus vs. batarians, krogans, humans, turians, asari, salarians, vorcha, varren, mechs, husks and geth)
Are you ******* kid me???????????
Salarians, Humans, Turians, Geths, Vorcha and Asari enemies in ME2 are different only in appearance, because the mechanics are absolutely equal.
In ME3 each type of enemy has a different mechanic, and you have to adapt to it 

While they have a similar combat AI, it really did feel different going up against an asari im comparison to a vorcha, don't you think? Not to mention Krogans. Not that I don't like the new enemies, but more often then not it seemed a bit out of place to see Cerberus everywhere in the galaxy (no matter what mission you were on, Cerberus was always there before you, in BULK), because Bioware apparently ran out of other enemies to place there. It's just unrealistic and annoyed me quite some bit while playing.

In ME2 you had lots of Asari enemies on Illium, Krogans and varren on Tuchanka, everything on Omega (orderly in mercenary gangs), batarians and mechs on some random missions, the rare and interesting encounters with Collectors (which i forgot in my list), Husks in the Reaper ship and more... it just felt much more authentic and reflected to variety of the galaxy in Mass Effect quite nicely. While Geth only appear in the Rannoch story arc (which fits), everything else you shoot at is either Cerberus or the Reapers. As I said, quite disappointing.

Cerberus have "human tank "Guardian; Centurion with Shields; Atlas; Combat Engineers and Turrets; Phantons, Nemesis.
Reapers are: Husks, Marauders, Cannibals, Banshes, Brutes, etc...

Each of those enemies you MUST fight in a different way, unlike ME2.

[bboynexus]

But I think ME3 IS close to BioWare's usual quality and, in some ways, is better off than their other games. ME2 showed signs of rushness as well but it's less noticeable because the entire point of the game was about world building and individual character development which was all only lossely unified by the husk of a main plot with the Collectors (which is full of its own issues). In this it was much easier to make. ME3 is more difficult to judge because it's all about the war and it's trying to deal with all your decisions from the past two games on some level or another. And they had about the same amount of time to develop it as they did with ME2, which is ludicrous.

Modifié par bboynexus, 27 mars 2012 - 02:32 .

[de3ex]

Great points OP. Hats off for being so thorough and persuasive. Overall, the more I read this post, the more I felt you were right. Development was probably rushed, and I sometimes wonder whether The Old Republics development hurt the development of Mass Effect 3. I think there may not have been a fair division of resources between those two titles.

But the more I think about ME3, the more I feel it was rushed and in some sense, underdeveloped. I think one of the greatest points you made was about how this is supposed to be a Galactic Invasion, yet we never really see the full extent of the war. Thessia, Earth and Palavens moon are the only good examples of showing where this conflict is truly at.

[bboynexus]

What would 'seeing the full extent of the war' entail then if it isn't what we experienced?

[Edje Edgar]

I also found ME3 to be pretty lackluster

[digby69]

sadly 80% of what you say is true.

[Erszebeth]

My pet theory is that ME3 suffered the same "streamlined" fate as DA2. Then seeing the outrcy, they hurried up to flesh out the game with RPG elements to the best of their capabilities, which explains the delay between the original release date (holidays 2011) end the real one.

[BadlyBrowned]

Terminus Echoes wrote...


The Ending:

Ah yes, the ending.

I totally read this line with the Turian councilor's voice and with him doing the air quotes. 

[bboynexus]

The delay had nothing to do with what you are descriving, Erszebeth.

[humes spork]

Mvin wrote...

While they have a similar combat AI...As I said, quite disappointing.

More variance in enemies in ME3 would have been nice, but as I mentioned in an earlier post ME2 is a horrid basis for comparison. The missions in ME2 are short, completely linear, and predictable. Of the eight playthroughs I did of ME2, I had the enemy types and missions matched on the second playthrough and had the entire game memorized by rote on the third. Case in point,

My vanguard Shepard's playthrough:

Go to Omega, recruit Zaeed.
Zaeed loyalty, bring Miranda. Blue Suns mission, need techies.
Recruit Garrus, bring Zaeed and Miranda. Varied attack types for varied enemies.
Recruit Mordin, bring Garrus and Miranda. Varied attack types.
Recruit Kasumi. Kasumi loyalty.
Recruit Jack, bring Garrus and Zaeed. Blue Suns mission.
Recruit Grunt, bring Garrus and Zaeed. Blue Suns mission.
Horizon. Bring Jack and Miranda. Collector mission, need biotics.
Recruit Thane, bring Garrus and Miranda. Eclipse mission, need techies and warp user.
Recruit Samara, bring Garrus and Miranda. Eclipse mission.
Recruit Tali, bring Garrus and Zaeed. Geth mission, need techies.

Not in chronological order...

Garrus loyalty, bring Zaeed. Blue Suns.
Grunt loyalty, bring Mordin. Blood Pack, need armor and regen busters.
Mordin loyalty, bring Grunt. Blood Pack.
Jack loyalty, bring Mordin. Blood Pack.
Jacob loyalty, bring Garrus. Mechs, bring techies.
Thane loyalty, bring Garrus. All plot, Garrus has the funniest dialogue.
Miranda loyalty, bring Thane. Eclipse mission, Miranda's a protection-stripper of herself.
Samara loyalty, all plot.
Overlord, bring Zaeed and Tali. Geth.

Back to chronological order...

Reaper IFF, bring Jack and Samara. Husk mission, want husk insta-killers.
Tali loyalty (doing this in particular stalls the post-IFF mission timer one mission), bring Legion for lulz and geth.
Legion loyalty, bring Tali. Geth.
Suicide mission. No pre-mission casualties due to upgrades.
Tali goes in vent, Garrus leads first squad. Thane and Samara with Shepard.
Jack does barrier, Miranda leads second squad. Thane and Samara with Shepard.
Mordin returns with Normandy crew. Bring Miranda and Thane to human-reaper. Both are armor busters, strong versus collectors, and have low defense values for hold the line calculation. Not that it matters, a loyal Grunt and a loyal Zaeed will ensure no casualties so long is Mordin is off the line one way or another.
Shadow Broker, bring Garrus. Varied enemy types.
Arrival is a solo mission.

It's rote memory for god's sake. That's neither deep nor difficult. Compared to ME3 when I just started my third playthrough and I'm still working out how to best approach missions, despite having worked out what squaddies are best against which enemies.

Modifié par humes spork, 27 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[Eterna]

This isn't evidence it's just things you don't like.

[ahandsomeshark]

bboynexus wrote...

But I think ME3 IS close to BioWare's usual quality and, in some ways, is better off than their other games. ME2 showed signs of rushness as well but it's less noticeable because the entire point of the game was about world building and individual character development which was all only lossely unified by the husk of a main plot with the Collectors (which is full of its own issues). In this it was much easier to make. ME3 is more difficult to judge because it's all about the war and it's trying to deal with all your decisions from the past two games on some level or another. And they had about the same amount of time to develop it as they did with ME2, which is ludicrous.

I think it's better than their games in terms of gameplay, but it's lacking in terms of story and side missions and basically just extra content. Which I know isn't for everyone but one of the reasons I love bioware games is because of all the extra nonsense you can do that has no relevance to saving the world.

[Errationatus]

I agree with OP, more or less.  The game is good in a general sense, but it was definitely rushed.

I can remember playing through it the first time and thinking, "was there a bit here?" when some part of the story seemed a bit off. Then through the second run it started to turn into "shouldn't there be something here?"  I'm still irate about the abrupt endings for the ME2 LI's, the a-little-too-perfunctory so-called resolutions.  I get the "we're at war and things can go to crap pretty quick" vibe.  But it is still not an excuse.  

If there was enough goddam room to cram Tali's whiny romance in there, the chirpy lovey-dovey banter in the middle of combat,  there was enough bleed'n room for the same for Jack, Miranda, and Thane.  Did we need Traynor and Cortez?  I've got no problem with them there, but I could have had Jack instead, you know what I mean?  We did not need that useless chipmunked-Allers stinking up Zaeed's old space.  There was so much potential in these already-established characters, yet they got gutted and shoved aside.  That is so not cool.  I would have loved some few nuances for those who actually tried romancing Samara.  Anything, even a passing acknowledgement would have killed no one.  

But nope.  We got nothing.  Not a sausage.  We got Jack as a b!tchy den mother, and Samara personality-flat and echoing.  Bah.

Don't even get me started on all the off-screen deaths BW pulled.  You humanized Kalisha the Face-Punched, but you kill Wong, Thanoptis and Kree'gar in emails.  Dafuq?  Why didn't you just drape Gianna over a railing during the Cerberus attack in the Citadel, stick a axe in her head and a rose up her hindend and be done with it (Okay, you get points for Charr and his Blue Rose of Illium.  That was sweet in an "awww" kinda way. But this just shows you what you could have done instead of obituary emails)?

The stupid multiplayer?  How much money and resources did it take that could have been used to add content into the main game, hmm?  I suspect a bit, and I don't give a sh!t about separate teams making it, yada, yada.  I've said this before the game came out and I will say it forever:

Multiplayer in the ME Universe is/was un-fecking-necessary!  Even moreso that I cannot get the full experience of my game without it. Never wanted it, still get it pushed on me like an ugly sister at a wedding .  So my only alternative to it is that tedious app. (I'm not paying for Infiltrator, just to get the same)  Don't even get me started on the amount of time necessary to build up that score - and the fact that the score can drop 3 or four points in a couple of hours of idleness. The score drops while my fleets are gathering the damn resources! 

Y'know, I've been trying to defend this game.  I really do like it.  I've gone on long speeches elsewhere full of benefit of doubt for BW, but every playthrough I attempt just spells out everything that's missing.  I should not dread wanting to play any Mass Effect, and then I hit the Citadel and think of those five million fetch quests for arbitrary and far-too-necessary "war assets".  But dread it I do.  There's too much of it that could have been woven through story, through some other LI series of quests that filled out the main story, gathered our assets as we went and let us have closure with the kids we'd recruited for Collector-killing.  Nope.  We get tedious back and forth, back and forth.  

Someone somewhere seriously dropped the ball.  There were big ol' fibs with fecking bright ribbons on 'em told over and over.  I'm not angry at the creators of this game.  They did a helluva job.  I've had fun and don't regret the money.

But I'm not impressed.  I am put-out, and just out-and-out disappointed.  Some money-grubbing bottom-liner slapped his d!ck all over this pretty lady called ME3 and left her bruised and half-naked, then he shoved her into the street and demanded she make him some money with a monkey and a cup.  Boils the blood.  He needs to be strapped in a chair in the middle of a large mall and people should be allowed to come up and slap him upside his head, so he can think about what he's done.

My problem is that I expected more - not a whole lot more, not anyone kissing my butt, or stuffing the game full of trivia or pointless nonsense like Tali painting her chicken-feeted toenails after a good slammin',  just... more.

A nuance or two.  I would have waited until the end of the summer or Xmas, no problem.  I'm old, but I would have given you the time.  I would have paid for another DVD full of deeper content, cheerfully.  We were waiting for an UP or a Wall-E (which we were kinda promised) and we got Cars instead.  It wasn't "close enough", guys.  Not even remotely.

Oh, and speaking of which, one piece of advice for EA - do think of Disney, and how they handle Pixar.

They don't.

...and the money rolls in....

Jus' sayin.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 27 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[ahandsomeshark]

humes spork wrote...

Mvin wrote...

While they have a similar combat AI...As I said, quite disappointing.

More variance in enemies in ME3 would have been nice, but as I mentioned in an earlier post ME2 is a horrid basis for comparison. The missions in ME2 are short, completely linear, and predictable. Of the eight playthroughs I did of ME2, I had the enemy types and missions matched on the second playthrough and had the entire game memorized by rote on the third. Case in point,

My vanguard Shepard's playthrough:

Go to Omega, recruit Zaeed.
Zaeed loyalty, bring Miranda. Blue Suns mission, need techies.
Recruit Garrus, bring Zaeed and Miranda. Varied attack types for varied enemies.
Recruit Mordin, bring Garrus and Miranda. Varied attack types.
Recruit Kasumi. Kasumi loyalty.
Recruit Jack, bring Garrus and Zaeed. Blue Suns mission.
Recruit Grunt, bring Garrus and Zaeed. Blue Suns mission.
Horizon. Bring Jack and Miranda. Collector mission, need biotics.
Recruit Thane, bring Garrus and Miranda. Eclipse mission, need techies and warp user.
Recruit Samara, bring Garrus and Miranda. Eclipse mission.
Recruit Tali, bring Garrus and Zaeed. Geth mission, need techies.

Not in chronological order...

Garrus loyalty, bring Zaeed. Blue Suns.
Grunt loyalty, bring Mordin. Blood Pack, need armor and regen busters.
Mordin loyalty, bring Grunt. Blood Pack.
Jack loyalty, bring Mordin. Blood Pack.
Jacob loyalty, bring Garrus. Mechs, bring techies.
Thane loyalty, bring Garrus. All plot, Garrus has the funniest dialogue.
Miranda loyalty, bring Thane. Eclipse mission, Miranda's a protection-stripper of herself.
Samara loyalty, all plot.
Overlord, bring Zaeed and Tali. Geth.

Back to chronological order...

Reaper IFF, bring Jack and Samara. Husk mission, want husk insta-killers.
Tali loyalty (doing this in particular stalls the post-IFF mission timer one mission), bring Legion for lulz and geth.
Legion loyalty, bring Tali. Geth.
Suicide mission. No pre-mission casualties due to upgrades.
Tali goes in vent, Garrus leads first squad. Thane and Samara with Shepard.
Jack does barrier, Miranda leads second squad. Thane and Samara with Shepard.
Mordin returns with Normandy crew. Bring Miranda and Thane to human-reaper. Both are armor busters, strong versus collectors, and have low defense values for hold the line calculation. Not that it matters, a loyal Grunt and a loyal Zaeed will ensure no casualties so long is Mordin is off the line one way or another.
Shadow Broker, bring Garrus. Varied enemy types.
Arrival is a solo mission.

It's rote memory for god's sake. That's neither deep nor difficult. Compared to ME3 when I just started my third playthrough and I'm still working out how to best approach missions, despite having worked out what squaddies are best against which enemies.

but it's rote because you choose to. I do all the things you mentioned in your first list in a completely different order each time. ( I also go to the citadel before Omega). The only thing I definitely always do in the same order is going to the citadel and then recruiting Mordin.