Are we moving from hating the endings to hating the whole game already?
#126
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:14
I want play again, but I need to have a reason to do it. For now the endings give me the reason for not doing it...and I'm not happy about it.
#127
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:18
#128
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:19
A lot of people rush through the game the first time, or even get overwhelmed. But the pay closer attention the second time around. I know the first time around I thought everything was great until the ending, which felt like I ran into a brick wall.
However, during the 2nd time around I started to notice there was plot holes and unexplained questions starting from the very beginning of the game, and goes on throughout the game right to the end. You also start to release that your choices really make very little to no difference at all.
It just seems bioware dropped the ball on the production of this game. I feel if bioware spent as much time brainstorming on the story of the game, as they are doing on how to respond to the mess they created, this would never have happened.
#129
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:19
lltoon wrote...
If I was playing chess and whenever I get close to making a checkmate, the other guy flips over the chessboard, I'd sure hate playing chess after that, and the person that flipped it.
ME3 was the Chessboard. Bioware flipped it.
LMFAO.
Had me in stitches.
With people comparing ME3 to ME2 I think alot are probably including integrated ME2 DLC as part of the comparison which would be very unfair. ME2 with the full set of DLC is amazing, indeed, but without it I would argue it's ME3 is on par in terms of quality - it simply has different pacing (though I do miss the amount of TIM we got in ME2).
Now, true, I do think ME3 would benefit from some more "fleshing out" the likes of which we saw in ME1 and 2 (like hub-worlds etc.) but it makes up for lacking this with advantages in other areas, such as the intensity of some of the scenes in the game (both Reaper Destroyer scenes were amazing).
The main issue is the ending. Things like the journal or lack of fleshed out sidequests etc. are like ants compared to Reapers when faced with the ending's issues.
Modifié par Myrmedus, 27 mars 2012 - 09:25 .
#130
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:23
#131
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:27
The shiney new feeling has worn off, and realisation that there's actually a ton of minor flaws, that the fantastic characters and gameplay overshadowed has begun to creep in, and is only more apparent without the plot and characters being able to divert my attention, because the ending actively makes me not want to think about them.
It's still an overall amazing game, and would be brilliant, but the end fundamentally undermines or invalidates what should be the games main strengths.
I just hope it doesn't spread to the first 2 games. I can't play them rigt now, but I hope to again one day.
#132
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:33
xsdob wrote...
Now I'm seeing forum post creep up around here about how the endings weren't the only thing wrong with the game, but that everything about mass effect 3 was bad. I guess what I'm trying to ask is that, since there really isn't a calaneder or schedule for this type of thing, and I'm not that good at reading trends, does this mean that the new flavor of the week to complain about is that the whole game needs to be changed now, cause it'd be good to get a heads up on this.
The initial rage over the ME3 endings drowned EVERYTHING out. However, that initial rage is subsiding.
Now that people have calmed down over the ending furor they're a bit divorced from the story as a whole. The rose-colored glasses have come off and they can examine the game a bit more objectively. Essentially, ME3's honeymoon period has worn off completely.
#133
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:43
#134
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:48
- Diana Allers (Didn't know she was an IGN reporter licking psp???!!!)
- Unable to import custom faces
- crappy journal
- crappy side missions (scanning for war assets)
And the BIG ones:
- lack of dialogue-wheel
- Tali's face (OMG)
- War assets do nothing!!! They don't show cinematics of how they affect the ending
- The choices of the previous games don't matter (Rachni, Counselor, Collector base)
- ME2 Character romances are poor
- No epic scenes of glory for all previous and ccurrent squadmates for the battle in London
#135
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 09:53
SiriusXI wrote...
I agree that the bad andings just make the other flaws all the more visible:
- Diana Allers (Didn't know she was an IGN reporter licking psp???!!!)
- Unable to import custom faces
- crappy journal
- crappy side missions (scanning for war assets)
And the BIG ones:
- lack of dialogue-wheel
- Tali's face (OMG)
- War assets do nothing!!! They don't show cinematics of how they affect the ending
- The choices of the previous games don't matter (Rachni, Counselor, Collector base)
- ME2 Character romances are poor
- No epic scenes of glory for all previous and ccurrent squadmates for the battle in London
I could agree with that, especially the last one. But it is part of the ending for me.
And I can't live with current ending:)
I don't like the way ME2 squadmates were treated - mostly abandoned... dialogs was poor with them too.
#136
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 08:59
SiriusXI wrote...
- Diana Allers (Didn't know she was an IGN reporter licking psp???!!!)
"You'se nice maybe, but you'se still a nobody."
I mean I have no idea who's that and don't want to. But I'd trade that character for Emily Wong hands down. I bet THAT could be a newsfeed.
SiriusXI wrote...
- Unable to import custom faces
I don't think that problem with "import" rather than "different look". Since all my Sheps from ME1, I rely on sliders' positions, not numbers. Yet Shepard still look very much different. I'd prefer old one (c'mon, Bioware, you made Baldur's gate).
SiriusXI wrote...
- crappy journal
Total keel over. Probably worst journal I even seen.
SiriusXI wrote...
- crappy side missions (scanning for war assets)
"And they thought Mako was bad."
SiriusXI wrote...
And the BIG ones:
- lack of dialogue-wheel
Lack of choices and strange paragon/renegade interrups. How come buying drinks and subsequent slogan is renegade? Just like pretty much else in the game - "nothing else matters"?
SiriusXI wrote...
- Tali's face (OMG)
Since we have no data on quarians biology, I don't know whether they sweat or not. But if they do, I really wonder how she can wear all that heap of hairs of hers inside that suit? I served in NBC unit, wore NBC suit and had my head shaved clean and it still was disaster. Quarians wore their suits entire life and having such chevelure... More than that - how Tali was able to fit that broad mug of hers into such narrow helmet?
SiriusXI wrote...
- ME2 Character romances are poor
And somehow they are still better than ME1 ones. Outside of Kelly's. Grrr!
I'd also add some annoying moments, like unskippable cutscenes, all of them, bik or game engine, making an control shot into any remnants of wishes to replay game, enforced emotions (dat keed!) and decisions, misbalanced and cluster****ed arsenal, list goes on...
#137
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:05
Had we not had the endings; you'd see much more discussion about all the other elements but with the caveat that much of it didn't detract substantial from the experience.
#138
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:11
#139
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:14
But nobody can convince me that 95% of ME3 wasn't amazing. The combat was improved. Character relationships felt much more personal and real. Tuchanka and Rannoch were epic. Every character's death had some sort of weight to it. The Cerberus side story was great. Fighting on Paladin's moon was epic.
The only thing I can complain about is the Journal. I didnt care about the side missions. It was easy to do that planet scanning. Felt rewarding even. And besides one could even say that every mission that didnt have "Priority" before it was a side mission. A mission that didnt have to be completed. (that counts for the two missions on Rannoch and Tuchanka that you had the option to complete before the Priority one.) They also were much better than side missions in 1 and 2 (not talking about Loyalty missions) We had the Jacob side mission, the jack side mission, the Rachi, etc. All of those were huge, and could be skipped if I remember correctly.
The multiplayer is also very fun on its own, and I dont just play it for the war assets. If anything the war assets are nothing more than a bonus. You get to play as DIFFERENT ALIEN SPECIES. Come on!
Either way I guess what im saying is that nobody can take the awesome time I had with 95% of ME3 away from me. I can make a few nitpicks about the gameplay, but as an emotional EXPERIENCE, ME3 has rewarded me greatly (aside from the ending) and it definitely is a much better game, and storyteller, than the past two Mass Effect games.
The forums have changed my perspective on the ending, but I wont let it change the majority of the game for me.
Modifié par Acidrain92, 28 mars 2012 - 09:17 .
#140
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:15
However, I think ME2 was an all around better game.
#141
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:16
Fetch quests, downgrading of the journal, lack of "land on planet" quests, most side missions based on multiplayer maps+stereotypical "You do this while me and this squad mate fends off enemies". Also, Auto dialogue, lack of dialogue wheel even if you pick RPG. Feels like you are playing "Story" or "Action" rather than "RPG". Poor treatment of most ME2 romances, favoritism of Liara in comparison to all other choices.
Pretty much all the problems I can think about. Most feel like you could ignore them if the ending was good. The fetch quests and the auto dialogue.
That said, the customization and skill system was spot on. And it feels incredibly stiff to go back to ME2 controls. So Shepard is a lot more fluid. You don't feel punished by playing any particular class compared to any other class. As I remember it, Adepts in ME2 were very...lackluster because of defenses that inhibited their only biotic explosion move/singularity. They fixed that in ME3. In fact, all the classes seem balanced.
#142
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:21
#143
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:21
I still really enjoy the game, but I do find myself taking a far more critical eye to it than I took to ME1 or ME2.
#144
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:31
and then you get hit like a truck by it.
no cool cinematics where you see the forces you "scanned out" fighting the reapers.
you realise that all the stupid scanning in the game, aswell as all the running around the citadel was basicaly meaningless.
plain and simple, the game was rushed and is nowhere near as good as ME1 or 2
#145
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:42
But nobody can convince me that 95% of ME3 wasn't amazing. [/quote]
What for? We share our opinions, not trying to convince someone that he is wrong. Well, at least that what I do.
[quote]Acidrain92 wrote...
The Cerberus side story was great. [/quote]
Disagree on that. One of most wasted story arc. Even in comparison with Witcher 2.
[quote]Acidrain92 wrote...
Fighting on Paladin's moon was epic.[/quote]
That was Palaven. I know, Paladin is great gun, but give it moon?
[quote]Acidrain92 wrote...
I didnt care about the side missions. It was easy to do that planet scanning. Felt rewarding even.
[/quote]
Well, Jedem das seine. I care about side missions. Actually lack of those. Planet scanning was "bleh", another way to rush game further. Now I even miss lack of hacking/bypassing, since now bypassing just masking sublevel loading.
[quote]Acidrain92 wrote...
The multiplayer is also very fun on its own, and I dont just play it for the war assets. If anything the war assets are nothing more than a bonus. You get to play as DIFFERENT ALIEN SPECIES. Come on![/quote]
And for instance I don't care about multiplayer. At all. Not my type of multiplayer game, totally.
[quote]Acidrain92 wrote...
ME3 has rewarded me greatly (aside from the ending) and it definitely is a much better game, and storyteller, than the past two Mass Effect games.[/quote]
Definitely variety is a spice of life...
I don't understand how ME3 is better storyteller... Concept - yes, interesting, but existing execution?
And no, I have no plans to convince you or anyone in anything. ME3 rated M, so we all should be old enough to make up our mind.
[quote]Senario wrote...
Also, Auto dialogue, lack of dialogue wheel even if you pick RPG. Feels like you are playing "Story" or "Action" rather than "RPG". [/quote]
Hm, I don't remember this choice option at start of the game (unlike in Demo), maybe because I used imported character? Because when I strolled through menu I've found "all decisions" on by default.
[quote]Senario wrote...
Poor treatment of most ME2 romances, favoritism of Liara in comparison to all other choices.[/quote]
Not sure about Liara, IMHO any ME2 romance is better then ME1, especially Liara's (which is just have more "confirm/back out" options than any other). So much for loyalty.
[quote]Senario wrote...
That said, the customization and skill system was spot on. And it feels incredibly stiff to go back to ME2 controls. So Shepard is a lot more fluid.[/quote]
I don't know, I found most of those forks pretty much single-valued - one option is good, another pretty much useless. But maybe it's just me.
[quote]Senario wrote...
You don't feel punished by playing any particular class compared to any other class. As I remember it, Adepts in ME2 were very...lackluster because of defenses that inhibited their only biotic explosion move/singularity. They fixed that in ME3. In fact, all the classes seem balanced.[/quote]
disagree here, Soldier, IMHO, is a but trashed. Since it's my favorite class and I played mostly with it (in ME3 only with it, outside of demo, and I don't think I will ever play ME3 again, 4 times are more than enough).
[quote]Hendrik.III wrote...
Set one bit on fire, no one is trying to put it out, and soon everything will be ablaze.[/quote]
Well, they call it Mass Effect themselves.
#146
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:51
xsdob wrote...
Reptilian Rob wrote...
To be fair, this wasn't even close to the quality ME1 or ME2 was.
A lot of the hate is justified, then again a lot of it isn't.
I know, I would just like something to let me know when what I'm complaining about has already become old hat.
I don't think you meant this sentence to imply what it appears to imply.
On topic, Mass Effect 3 has plenty of problems, things I detail here (though it's far from an exhaustive list). But it also succeeds beyond its predecessors in a number of areas crucial to enjoyment of a video game.
The reason you are seeing this shift, I believe, is because when people have an overall negative opinion of something they tend to find faults in it more readily. I know from personal experience that I've felt like **** ever since completing Mass Effect 3. I can't bring myself to complete the game again because of that ending. I lose all interest in continuing after Rannoch.
I also believe that as people stop playing the game and brood in their hatred of the ending they focus on those flaws and forget the great moments. As time goes by their strongest emotion, distaste, effects what they remember clearly.
#147
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:54
Myrmedus wrote...
With people comparing ME3 to ME2 I think alot are probably including integrated ME2 DLC as part of the comparison which would be very unfair. ME2 with the full set of DLC is amazing, indeed, but without it I would argue it's ME3 is on par in terms of quality - it simply has different pacing (though I do miss the amount of TIM we got in ME2).
You raise an interesting point. I wonder how people's opinion of the game will shift with the subsequent DLC releases? I hope that, as this is the last hoorah for Mass Effect as we know it, Bioware will pull out all the stops for ME3. Something along the lines of DA: Awakening would be great i.e. a proper meaty expansion pack style DLC - something that wraps tha game up properly, gives closure, and maybe adds extra content regarding squadmate conversations post-ending etc.
Part of me can see them doing something along the lines of additional content for LI's as part of DLC. I don't see marriage as out of the question - would be an interesting mechanic.
I also agree that there were aspects of ME3 that need improvement - the journal is certainly one of them. I think Bioware's focus was more on the story and characterisation side of things - finishing the story, wrapping up story arcs etc. Maybe they just didn't have the time to give the rest of the game the polish fans wanted. Looking back at what fans wanted from ME2, especially around LI and squadmate interactions (squadmates moving around the normandy, more banter after missions, the ability to have 'dates' with them, more inter-squad chatter etc) I'd say that Bioware delivered. As much as it would have been nice to have more conversations with Ash, for example, I found the ability to chat with her at the Citadel, and the subsequent conversational options to be bang-on what I, and I imagine other's, were hoping for.
So I think Bioware tried to deliver a game they thought the fans wanted. Ending aside, I think they delivered. It's just that, in doing so, they were forced to make compromises elsewhere. It's a shame that those are drawing all the discussion, rather than the positive steps they took in addressing fan-feedback from ME2. But then expectations were high, I doubt they could have met them no matter what they did.
#148
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 09:56
Rudy Lis wrote...
snip
first of all, god dammit! I keep mixing up Paladin and Palaven xD christ. I need to stop playing Realm of the Mad God.
and yeah. To each his own. I really loved the game for what it was and can set aside a majority of its "faults" because I really appreciate the story, the conversations, the relationships, the gameplay, and the differences between everybody's playthroughs...all up to the ending anyway.
but yeah, I can be easily influenced, so as soon as this Mass Effect 3 hate really starts getting out of control, I am OUT of here. I dont mind talking about the ending controversy, but I wont stick around if it means my opinion of the majority of the game is going to be changed.
#149
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 10:01
#150
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 10:03
Acidrain92 wrote...
Rudy Lis wrote...
snip
first of all, god dammit! I keep mixing up Paladin and Palaven xD christ. I need to stop playing Realm of the Mad God.
and yeah. To each his own. I really loved the game for what it was and can set aside a majority of its "faults" because I really appreciate the story, the conversations, the relationships, the gameplay, and the differences between everybody's playthroughs...all up to the ending anyway.
but yeah, I can be easily influenced, so as soon as this Mass Effect 3 hate really starts getting out of control, I am OUT of here. I dont mind talking about the ending controversy, but I wont stick around if it means my opinion of the majority of the game is going to be changed.
Nah i hated the ending but the rest of ME3 was pretty solid especially the combat. But i did enjoy the ME2 loyalty missions in ME2 wish they had something of that capacity in ME3 i know your squad is already loyal but meh fun games.





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