166 réponses à ce sujet

[effortname]

Space Magic

[Evil_medved]

You look mad to me.

Are you?

[Skirlasvoud]

I always believed that the "Spesh Magic" people are firmly in the retake camp. It's like "Hold the line!", only less eloquent.


Any ending that requires Spesh magic to explain, is obviously an observation on how poor and sloppy it is.

[arthurhallam]

Warden130 wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Space Magic

Jk! Seriously, I agree with everything you have said. Im getting sick of seeing people call something "Space Magic" everytime they can't see an explanation to something is right in front of their eyes. Sometimes you need to think, even just a little bit.

Yes because it's only logical for a machine to fire green energy that fuses synthetic "<DNA>" with organics.

About as logical as blue space chicks that live for 1000 years and can get pregrenant from females of other species. (And yes, I know how it works, don't bother explaining it to me) You can't expect everything to be 100% realistic, especially in a Sci Fi.

I updated my original post.

But as someone else said, all the things like blue chicks that live for up to 1000 years etc etc is explained and it's logical to the ME universe. The last 5 minute plotholes/twists are way way way way out of place, don't get explained, and just fail to make any sense whatsoever.

Space magic.

Just because it isn't in the Codex or isn't explained, doesn't mean it isn't logical to the ME universe. Yes, the ME3 ending was bad. But the Normandy scene aside (Because that really was Space Magic ) I think that the ending (Catalyst included) logically fitted fine in the ME universe.

exactly. selective application of the pejorative "space magic" to disregard fictional elements that don't fit within their understanding of the universe

[Hy0ga]

Then please;

Give me extensive Codex entries or any kind of Comic regarding the GodChild and it's plot holes or "Space Magic".

Sci-Fi is completely different from Magic Fantasy. I'm not saying one is better then other. I like both actually. If Tolkien says that the One Ring is pure magic and Gandalf also can cast some spells, ok! I don't need any kind of explanation. I know I'm going to read a Fantasy fiction. I can also accept The Force. SW is Sci-Fi, no questions asked, but since the beginning of the movies we had been told about the Fantasy part. It's ok.

Mass Effect ALWAYS gave us extensive and well written explanations about biotics, FTL, "mass effect", aliens physiology and so on. Why, 6 years after that awesome work, they changed that? Suddenly, in the "grand finale", we are suposed to just accept "space magic" without any explanation? That's a big problem to me.

And for the record, I do not believe this ending is real. I believe in the indoc theory.

[Darth Malice113]

Space Magic. Space Logic.

That is all.

[Zemore]

im wondering why your so bothered by the term space magic when its just as descriptive on the problem and it least puts some ... humour in to the issue its irrelevant what we call it as long as your aware of what we mean by it.

[Hexoskin]

Warden130 wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Space Magic

Jk! Seriously, I agree with everything you have said. Im getting sick of seeing people call something "Space Magic" everytime they can't see an explanation to something is right in front of their eyes. Sometimes you need to think, even just a little bit.

Yes because it's only logical for a machine to fire green energy that fuses synthetic "<DNA>" with organics.

About as logical as blue space chicks that live for 1000 years and can get pregrenant from females of other species. (And yes, I know how it works, don't bother explaining it to me) You can't expect everything to be 100% realistic, especially in a Sci Fi.

I updated my original post.

But as someone else said, all the things like blue chicks that live for up to 1000 years etc etc is explained and it's logical to the ME universe. The last 5 minute plotholes/twists are way way way way out of place, don't get explained, and just fail to make any sense whatsoever.

Space magic.

Just because it isn't in the Codex or isn't explained, doesn't mean it isn't logical to the ME universe. Yes, the ME3 ending was bad. But the Normandy scene aside (Because that really was Space Magic ) I think that the ending (Catalyst included) logically fitted fine in the ME universe.

Well that's a difference of opinion then Personally couldn't find any sense in the crucible that all races apparently added to each cycle without ever knowing what it's initial pourpose or function is, much less knowing what in the world their additions are doing to it, then finally it ends up fusing synthetics and organics.

And then the catalyst, a child/spacestation building reapers that require genetic sludge to be constructed, woulda made a helluva lot more sense to me if he just said he was an imprint of the first galactic race. lol.

"Just because it isn't in the Codex or isn't explained, doesn't mean it isn't logical to the ME universe."

Also doesn't fit entirely, this game is purely story driven, from the beginning, so really the codex should be acting as a rulebook to the universe, as it also acts as a source of information.

Modifié par Hexoskin, 27 mars 2012 - 10:14 .

[Unlimited Pain2]

Warden130 wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Space Magic

Jk! Seriously, I agree with everything you have said. Im getting sick of seeing people call something "Space Magic" everytime they can't see an explanation to something is right in front of their eyes. Sometimes you need to think, even just a little bit.

Yes because it's only logical for a machine to fire green energy that fuses synthetic "<DNA>" with organics.

About as logical as blue space chicks that live for 1000 years and can get pregrenant from females of other species. (And yes, I know how it works, don't bother explaining it to me) You can't expect everything to be 100% realistic, especially in a Sci Fi.

I updated my original post.

But as someone else said, all the things like blue chicks that live for up to 1000 years etc etc is explained and it's logical to the ME universe. The last 5 minute plotholes/twists are way way way way out of place, don't get explained, and just fail to make any sense whatsoever.

Space magic.

Just because it isn't in the Codex or isn't explained, doesn't mean it isn't logical to the ME universe. Yes, the ME3 ending was bad. But the Normandy scene aside (Because that really was Space Magic ) I think that the ending (Catalyst included) logically fitted fine in the ME universe.

You think it was logical for an advanced god-like AI entity to be living on the Citadel in support of the Reapers yet he never takes any kind of action against the allied universe? It felt like it was shoehorned in at the last second IMHO.

[arthurhallam]

Hy0ga wrote...

Then please;

Give me extensive Codex entries or any kind of Comic regarding the GodChild and it's plot holes or "Space Magic".

Sci-Fi is completely different from Magic Fantasy. I'm not saying one is better then other. I like both actually. If Tolkien says that the One Ring is pure magic and Gandalf also can cast some spells, ok! I don't need any kind of explanation. I know I'm going to read a Fantasy fiction. I can also accept The Force. SW is Sci-Fi, no questions asked, but since the beginning of the movies we had been told about the Fantasy part. It's ok.

Mass Effect ALWAYS gave us extensive and well written explanations about biotics, FTL, "mass effect", aliens physiology and so on. Why, 6 years after that awesome work, they changed that? Suddenly, in the "grand finale", we are suposed to just accept "space magic" without any explanation? That's a big problem to me.

And for the record, I do not believe this ending is real. I believe in the indoc theory.

so you need the codex to facilitate the suspension of disbelief? that speaks more about your personal imaginative limitations than it does the limits of the text in question. the universe of mass effect has a deeper history than that which we're presented. all fiction does.

[AlexXIV]

I think the problem may be that some kind of space magic was only introduced and executed in the very end of the game, and without much of an explaination. When you started with ME1 you have seen alot of strange things, but you were new in the world and everything new to you was because you were new. At the end of ME3 we were pretty much familar with ME universe, so this 'new' thing was clearly breaking with the world we knew. And Shepard reacting rather unemotional to it didn't make it better. Shep should have been like 'WAIT WHAT? YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!' but instead Shepard's reaction was 'Alright then.' Why? It didn't make sense, why not react accordingly.

[Xandax]

arthurhallam wrote...

I can't be the only one who checks in on this forum who wants to smash other users in the face whenever they try to derail any discussion of the game with the phrase "space magic"

What's more is how selective you are with what you do & do not consider to be space magic.

For instance, you are all, presumbly, perfectly happy with biotics. You're all, presumbly, happy with the entire premise of the Mass Effect, which isn't just an improbability, but bends the very notion of physics in ways that are simply not & will never be possible. & don't start flinging links to theoretical FTL technologies at me. I know the terrain. 

& you know what, I'm happy to take the leap with all that stuff because that's what Science Fiction demands. 

To top it all off, you have the audacity to disregard as trolls anybody who disagrees with this absurd retake movement.

I never thought this would happen with any creative work that i enjoy, but the fans of this game are actually making me resent the game. 

You don't seem to understand what space magic actuall is; whether by ignorance or simply refusal is then impossible to guess; but I'm sure many have their theories about why.

Space magic is something which does not make sense in the given setting; not something that doesn't make sense when viewing the setting from a real life perspective.

Therefore - Biotics isn't space magic anymore than 'the force' is in Star Wars.
What is space magic is Joker suddenly running away with your crew that was on Earth.
Space magic is to invent a 'God' that can Deus Ex your problems away if you cast yourself into a beam of light.


And the ending of Mass Effect 3 is full of space magic because it's full of things which make no sense when viewed in the context of the Mass Effect setting.

Modifié par Xandax, 27 mars 2012 - 10:17 .

[Mandemon]

 Thank you for your feedback, what was your favorite part of space magic:wizard:?

[arthurhallam]

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Space Magic

Jk! Seriously, I agree with everything you have said. Im getting sick of seeing people call something "Space Magic" everytime they can't see an explanation to something is right in front of their eyes. Sometimes you need to think, even just a little bit.

Yes because it's only logical for a machine to fire green energy that fuses synthetic "<DNA>" with organics.

About as logical as blue space chicks that live for 1000 years and can get pregrenant from females of other species. (And yes, I know how it works, don't bother explaining it to me) You can't expect everything to be 100% realistic, especially in a Sci Fi.

I updated my original post.

But as someone else said, all the things like blue chicks that live for up to 1000 years etc etc is explained and it's logical to the ME universe. The last 5 minute plotholes/twists are way way way way out of place, don't get explained, and just fail to make any sense whatsoever.

Space magic.

Just because it isn't in the Codex or isn't explained, doesn't mean it isn't logical to the ME universe. Yes, the ME3 ending was bad. But the Normandy scene aside (Because that really was Space Magic ) I think that the ending (Catalyst included) logically fitted fine in the ME universe.

You think it was logical for an advanced god-like AI entity to be living on the Citadel in support of the Reapers yet he never takes any kind of action against the allied universe? It felt like it was shoehorned in at the last second IMHO.

"No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." Niels Bohr. 

[Xandurpein]

It's all about consistency. I'll make you an example. In a Sceience-Fiction story the author establishes that there exists Faster-tahn-light drives capable of moving at up to 25 times the speed of light, but not further. This is of course pure fiction and could be considered "Space magic", but most Sci-Fi readers take this in strides. However, if at the very last chapter, the author, lets the hero save the day by piloting his spaceship at 250 times FTL, then it's still pure fiction, but it's bad fiction, because it breaks the established rules within the story.

It's almost universally accepted as bad Science fiction if you establish a set of fictional "laws of nature" and then proceed to break them haphazardly.

[arthurhallam]

Xandax wrote...

arthurhallam wrote...

I can't be the only one who checks in on this forum who wants to smash other users in the face whenever they try to derail any discussion of the game with the phrase "space magic"

What's more is how selective you are with what you do & do not consider to be space magic.

For instance, you are all, presumbly, perfectly happy with biotics. You're all, presumbly, happy with the entire premise of the Mass Effect, which isn't just an improbability, but bends the very notion of physics in ways that are simply not & will never be possible. & don't start flinging links to theoretical FTL technologies at me. I know the terrain. 

& you know what, I'm happy to take the leap with all that stuff because that's what Science Fiction demands. 

To top it all off, you have the audacity to disregard as trolls anybody who disagrees with this absurd retake movement.

I never thought this would happen with any creative work that i enjoy, but the fans of this game are actually making me resent the game. 

You don't seem to understand what space magic actuall is; whether by ignorance or simply refusal is then impossible to guess; but I'm sure many have their theories about why.

Space magic is something which does not make sense in the given setting; not something that doesn't make sense when viewing the setting from a real life perspective.

Therefore - Biotics isn't space magic anymore than 'the force' is in Star Wars.
What is space magic is Joker suddenly running away with your crew that was on Earth.
Space magic is to invent a 'God' that can Deus Ex your problems away if you cast yourself into a beam of light.


And the ending of Mass Effect 3 is full of space magic because it's full of things which make no sense when viewed in the context of the Mass Effect setting.

read the entire thread before repeating points that i've already dealt with.

[Hexoskin]

arthurhallam wrote...

Xandax wrote...

arthurhallam wrote...

I can't be the only one who checks in on this forum who wants to smash other users in the face whenever they try to derail any discussion of the game with the phrase "space magic"

What's more is how selective you are with what you do & do not consider to be space magic.

For instance, you are all, presumbly, perfectly happy with biotics. You're all, presumbly, happy with the entire premise of the Mass Effect, which isn't just an improbability, but bends the very notion of physics in ways that are simply not & will never be possible. & don't start flinging links to theoretical FTL technologies at me. I know the terrain. 

& you know what, I'm happy to take the leap with all that stuff because that's what Science Fiction demands. 

To top it all off, you have the audacity to disregard as trolls anybody who disagrees with this absurd retake movement.

I never thought this would happen with any creative work that i enjoy, but the fans of this game are actually making me resent the game. 

You don't seem to understand what space magic actuall is; whether by ignorance or simply refusal is then impossible to guess; but I'm sure many have their theories about why.

Space magic is something which does not make sense in the given setting; not something that doesn't make sense when viewing the setting from a real life perspective.

Therefore - Biotics isn't space magic anymore than 'the force' is in Star Wars.
What is space magic is Joker suddenly running away with your crew that was on Earth.
Space magic is to invent a 'God' that can Deus Ex your problems away if you cast yourself into a beam of light.


And the ending of Mass Effect 3 is full of space magic because it's full of things which make no sense when viewed in the context of the Mass Effect setting.

read the entire thread before repeating points that i've already dealt with.

If you've spent more than 5 minutes on these forums you'd know that by the time you've read through a thread, there's likely been 30+ new replies and you may just be reiterating what 25 of those said.

[arthurhallam]

AlexXIV wrote...

I think the problem may be that some kind of space magic was only introduced and executed in the very end of the game, and without much of an explaination. When you started with ME1 you have seen alot of strange things, but you were new in the world and everything new to you was because you were new. At the end of ME3 we were pretty much familar with ME universe, so this 'new' thing was clearly breaking with the world we knew. And Shepard reacting rather unemotional to it didn't make it better. Shep should have been like 'WAIT WHAT? YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!' but instead Shepard's reaction was 'Alright then.' Why? It didn't make sense, why not react accordingly.

i'd agree the ending is sloppy. i'm not here to defend the problems with the narrative. i find the ending to be a cop out anyway. i'd have rather never known the origins of the reapers. the catalyst is demystifying & boring. 

it's the annoying use of the phrase space magic that i'm confronting.

[Erixxxx]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[Xandurpein]

Actually, the real reason so many people use the phrase "space magic" is pure irony, as in one the most often quoted interviews with the developers of Mass Effect 3, one of them specifically mentions that the story would be based in pseudo-science and not feel like space magic. Most of the grievances fans have about the ending comes from the fact that they have been hanging on every word the developers wrote prior to the release and now feel they have been cheated as the final product in many ways failed to live up to Bioware's hype.

[arthurhallam]

Hexoskin wrote...

arthurhallam wrote...

Xandax wrote...

arthurhallam wrote...

I can't be the only one who checks in on this forum who wants to smash other users in the face whenever they try to derail any discussion of the game with the phrase "space magic"

What's more is how selective you are with what you do & do not consider to be space magic.

For instance, you are all, presumbly, perfectly happy with biotics. You're all, presumbly, happy with the entire premise of the Mass Effect, which isn't just an improbability, but bends the very notion of physics in ways that are simply not & will never be possible. & don't start flinging links to theoretical FTL technologies at me. I know the terrain. 

& you know what, I'm happy to take the leap with all that stuff because that's what Science Fiction demands. 

To top it all off, you have the audacity to disregard as trolls anybody who disagrees with this absurd retake movement.

I never thought this would happen with any creative work that i enjoy, but the fans of this game are actually making me resent the game. 

You don't seem to understand what space magic actuall is; whether by ignorance or simply refusal is then impossible to guess; but I'm sure many have their theories about why.

Space magic is something which does not make sense in the given setting; not something that doesn't make sense when viewing the setting from a real life perspective.

Therefore - Biotics isn't space magic anymore than 'the force' is in Star Wars.
What is space magic is Joker suddenly running away with your crew that was on Earth.
Space magic is to invent a 'God' that can Deus Ex your problems away if you cast yourself into a beam of light.


And the ending of Mass Effect 3 is full of space magic because it's full of things which make no sense when viewed in the context of the Mass Effect setting.

read the entire thread before repeating points that i've already dealt with.

If you've spent more than 5 minutes on these forums you'd know that by the time you've read through a thread, there's likely been 30+ new replies and you may just be reiterating what 25 of those said.

like i have the time to do that. i only get a few minutes a day at work to post on forums. 

[Darth Malice113]

Did somebody say  Space Magic?   


Tell me more.

[Zemore]

Erixxxx wrote...

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

" Dont ****** in my ear and tell me its raining"

[Unlimited Pain2]

arthurhallam wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Space Magic

Jk! Seriously, I agree with everything you have said. Im getting sick of seeing people call something "Space Magic" everytime they can't see an explanation to something is right in front of their eyes. Sometimes you need to think, even just a little bit.

Yes because it's only logical for a machine to fire green energy that fuses synthetic "<DNA>" with organics.

About as logical as blue space chicks that live for 1000 years and can get pregrenant from females of other species. (And yes, I know how it works, don't bother explaining it to me) You can't expect everything to be 100% realistic, especially in a Sci Fi.

I updated my original post.

But as someone else said, all the things like blue chicks that live for up to 1000 years etc etc is explained and it's logical to the ME universe. The last 5 minute plotholes/twists are way way way way out of place, don't get explained, and just fail to make any sense whatsoever.

Space magic.

Just because it isn't in the Codex or isn't explained, doesn't mean it isn't logical to the ME universe. Yes, the ME3 ending was bad. But the Normandy scene aside (Because that really was Space Magic ) I think that the ending (Catalyst included) logically fitted fine in the ME universe.

You think it was logical for an advanced god-like AI entity to be living on the Citadel in support of the Reapers yet he never takes any kind of action against the allied universe? It felt like it was shoehorned in at the last second IMHO.

"No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." Niels Bohr. 

As I said in another thread, explaining away inconsistencies with "Use your imagination" isn't much of a fix. My imagination works fine, but this hole requires me to dumb down the Mass Effect lore for the sake of consistency rather than taking the information that has been given to me within the confines of the in-game universe to explain it.

The whole Catalyst issue isn't the only thing, but using that as an example, it requires me to make certain assumptions that just don't fit. We know the Reapers want to "harvest" all advanced organic life. We are told the Catalyst created this "plan". So that would imply that the Catalyst supports this plan obviously. We're told the Citadel is a part of the Catalyst. We're told the code is altered in the Citadel so the Reapers can't use it as a backdoor. Logic would assume the Catalyst would do something about that, yet we're to assume he just decided to let the organics get away with whatever they wanted. It seems more likely to me that BioWare simply hadn't planned the whole Catalyst part yet when they wrote in the Citadel-Relay part.

[Hexoskin]

arthurhallam wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

arthurhallam wrote...

Xandax wrote...

arthurhallam wrote...

I can't be the only one who checks in on this forum who wants to smash other users in the face whenever they try to derail any discussion of the game with the phrase "space magic"

What's more is how selective you are with what you do & do not consider to be space magic.

For instance, you are all, presumbly, perfectly happy with biotics. You're all, presumbly, happy with the entire premise of the Mass Effect, which isn't just an improbability, but bends the very notion of physics in ways that are simply not & will never be possible. & don't start flinging links to theoretical FTL technologies at me. I know the terrain. 

& you know what, I'm happy to take the leap with all that stuff because that's what Science Fiction demands. 

To top it all off, you have the audacity to disregard as trolls anybody who disagrees with this absurd retake movement.

I never thought this would happen with any creative work that i enjoy, but the fans of this game are actually making me resent the game. 

You don't seem to understand what space magic actuall is; whether by ignorance or simply refusal is then impossible to guess; but I'm sure many have their theories about why.

Space magic is something which does not make sense in the given setting; not something that doesn't make sense when viewing the setting from a real life perspective.

Therefore - Biotics isn't space magic anymore than 'the force' is in Star Wars.
What is space magic is Joker suddenly running away with your crew that was on Earth.
Space magic is to invent a 'God' that can Deus Ex your problems away if you cast yourself into a beam of light.


And the ending of Mass Effect 3 is full of space magic because it's full of things which make no sense when viewed in the context of the Mass Effect setting.

read the entire thread before repeating points that i've already dealt with.

If you've spent more than 5 minutes on these forums you'd know that by the time you've read through a thread, there's likely been 30+ new replies and you may just be reiterating what 25 of those said.

like i have the time to do that. i only get a few minutes a day at work to post on forums. 

Odd how you've spent 40 minutes on the forums then today, now, here.

Space magic?