I agree with OP.
People that go "Space Magic" are bias. Space Wizards and whatnot is okay, but a completely-unkown technology that is literally millions old, that is capable of doing mircales is not okay?
Give me a break.
"...Space Magic"
Débuté par
arthurhallam
, mars 27 2012 09:46
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#102
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:05
lucidfox
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Short version: Learn how fiction works.
Long version: It's one thing to create a logically consistent set of rules that, while they contradict modern science as we know it, form the very basis and premise of the setting, form its "one big lie" that everything builds upon. It's another thing to trash the established rules of the setting, throw them out of the window, and introduce a new story element that contradicts them (not to mention being logically inconsistent with everything else in the story).
For example, in Star Wars, we accept that Jedi can telekinetically move stuff around. It's unrealistic, but it's part of the setting premise, more specifically the Force - which doesn't exist in the real world, but exists in the Star Wars setting. But if a Star Wars work was released where a Jedi teleports, we would complain, because they never displayed such an ability before, and there were many occasions where it would be convenient for them to do so if they couls.
Long version: It's one thing to create a logically consistent set of rules that, while they contradict modern science as we know it, form the very basis and premise of the setting, form its "one big lie" that everything builds upon. It's another thing to trash the established rules of the setting, throw them out of the window, and introduce a new story element that contradicts them (not to mention being logically inconsistent with everything else in the story).
For example, in Star Wars, we accept that Jedi can telekinetically move stuff around. It's unrealistic, but it's part of the setting premise, more specifically the Force - which doesn't exist in the real world, but exists in the Star Wars setting. But if a Star Wars work was released where a Jedi teleports, we would complain, because they never displayed such an ability before, and there were many occasions where it would be convenient for them to do so if they couls.
#103
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:07
FatalX7.0
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Dudefella wrote...
Inconsistency can still exist in a fictional universe. Space Magic is just the phrase people have coined to describe the sheer volume of inconsistency introduced at the end of the. Sure, it is being overused and sometimes just to troll, but it's origins hold true.
Exactly.
It's just a humorous term to describe the plotholes and general WTF of the ending. The fact that some people think it's some serious term is...depressing.
Modifié par FatalX7.0, 27 mars 2012 - 11:08 .
#104
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:08
Avatar231278
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Fingertrip wrote...
I agree with OP.
People that go "Space Magic" are bias. Space Wizards and whatnot is okay, but a completely-unkown technology that is literally millions old, that is capable of doing mircales is not okay?
Give me a break.
Not that. It would be okay if some sort of valid information would be presented at any point of the story, but it isn't. The Citadel just becomes mysteriously alive and pretends to be an AI-god focused on preventing organics from being killed by synthetics, so it created synthetics that made sure to keep the tech-level of organics low enough this wouldn't happen.
If it was a Futurama-episode I'd buy it, but not in Mass Effect.
Modifié par Avatar231278, 27 mars 2012 - 11:09 .
#105
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:10
Gibb_Shepard
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arthurhallam wrote...
Gibb_Shepard wrote...
arthurhallam wrote...
Gibb_Shepard wrote...
OP, do people like you actually know anything about how to craft a fictional setting?
I'm absolutely baffled with you people. Biotics and EVERYTHING else in ME has been explained with implausible science, and has remained consistent throughout ME. Bringing in an unexplained new piece of technology doing unexplained things in the last 5 minutes is the biggest no-no any writer can do in their setting.
People refer to it as "space magic" because it is unexplained, unprecedented and inconsistent.
the game forces you do deal with a paradigm shift. clearly you were unable to handle that.
Lol, i like that. Whenever anything is inconsistent or incoherent it is now a paradigm shift.
whatever, i'd do some reading into the initial responses to the first few lectures on quantum mechanics. might open up your mind to the reality of a shift in the fundamentals of our understanding of a system.
I'd invite you to read "Writing for dummies". That'd be far more effective for what we're talking about.
#106
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:11
Fingertrip
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The Crucible is literally schematics that's millions of years old- nobody know what it will do. This is explained so many times in the game that I don't know what.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
#107
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:11
poundoffleshaa
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Fingertrip wrote...
The Crucible is literally schematics that's millions of years old- nobody know what it will do. This is explained so many times in the game that I don't know what.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
Because the people who built it (the citedel) were probably the people who built the relays and they used mass effect tecnology rather than space magic.
Modifié par poundoffleshaa, 27 mars 2012 - 11:14 .
#108
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:16
FatalX7.0
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The schematics for the crucible were the work of all the cycles before ours, we are the first to finish it.
Modifié par FatalX7.0, 27 mars 2012 - 11:16 .
#109
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:16
Egonne
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I don't know if anyone mentioned this already but....
Biotics create a local phenomenon which changes the universe over very short distances. This phenomenon is explained in great detail.
The space kid (in the synthesis ending) combines organics and synthetics in some way that is not explained at all and apparently ranges over the entire galaxy.
The 'suspension of disbelief' is ridiculously higher for what the space kid did than for what biotics do.
Hence the term....space magic.
Biotics create a local phenomenon which changes the universe over very short distances. This phenomenon is explained in great detail.
The space kid (in the synthesis ending) combines organics and synthetics in some way that is not explained at all and apparently ranges over the entire galaxy.
The 'suspension of disbelief' is ridiculously higher for what the space kid did than for what biotics do.
Hence the term....space magic.
#110
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:19
Laurcus
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Fingertrip wrote...
The Crucible is literally schematics that's millions of years old- nobody know what it will do. This is explained so many times in the game that I don't know what.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
The Crucible schematics are 50,000 years old. The Crucible is Prothean technology. Prothean technology is based on the mass effect. What we knew about The Crucible is that it was capable of generating an enormous amount of energy.
No matter how much energy is generated, what the Crucible does is impossible. It doesn't have targeting sensors powerful enough to be so precise with the installation of the necessary organic and synthetic components. These components are made of nothing, and creating something from nothing is impossible, and mass effect technology doesn't change that. Also, nothing is explained about how the synthesis happens. More energy would actually make the process more deadly.
Basically, try shooting a microchip out of a cannon. The person that you shoot with it will not become a robot, they will just die.
Modifié par Laurcus, 27 mars 2012 - 11:20 .
#112
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:21
chris fenton
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It's more a matter of consistency and the massive plot holes the ends represent. And space magic.
#113
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:21
lillitheris
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OP, I'm sorry you feel irritated by space magic. It's just that a logically consistent universe is imperative to maintaining suspension of disbelief.
I'm sure it'd be nice to think that you're just smarter than everyone else who don't get all these deep, meaningful paradigm shifts, but statistically speaking, you're probably not.
Anyway, perhaps your time would be better spent coming up with logically consistent explanations for all instances where you see space magic being claimed. You can take it as a personal challenge to explain it in a way that makes sense, and everybody wins!
I'm sure it'd be nice to think that you're just smarter than everyone else who don't get all these deep, meaningful paradigm shifts, but statistically speaking, you're probably not.
Anyway, perhaps your time would be better spent coming up with logically consistent explanations for all instances where you see space magic being claimed. You can take it as a personal challenge to explain it in a way that makes sense, and everybody wins!
#114
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:22
FatalX7.0
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Laurcus wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
The Crucible is literally schematics that's millions of years old- nobody know what it will do. This is explained so many times in the game that I don't know what.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
The Crucible schematics are 50,000 years old. The Crucible is Prothean technology. Prothean technology is based on the mass effect. What we knew about The Crucible is that it was capable of generating an enormous amount of energy.
No matter how much energy is generated, what the Crucible does is impossible. It doesn't have targeting sensors powerful enough to be so precise with the installation of the necessary organic and synthetic components. These components are made of nothing, and creating something from nothing is impossible, and mass effect technology doesn't change that. Also, nothing is explained about how the synthesis happens. More energy would actually make the process more deadly.
Basically, try shooting a microchip out of a cannon. The person that youshoot with it will not become a robot, they will just die.
The Crucible is NOT Prothean technology. The Crucible is the work of other species from other cycles, going millions of years back, improving upon it with each new cycle.
The Protheans almost finished it, but a groupd of separatists got the bright idea to try and control the Reapers.
Modifié par FatalX7.0, 27 mars 2012 - 11:26 .
#115
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:24
Laurcus
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FatalX7.0 wrote...
Laurcus wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
The Crucible is literally schematics that's millions of years old- nobody know what it will do. This is explained so many times in the game that I don't know what.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
The Crucible schematics are 50,000 years old. The Crucible is Prothean technology. Prothean technology is based on the mass effect. What we knew about The Crucible is that it was capable of generating an enormous amount of energy.
No matter how much energy is generated, what the Crucible does is impossible. It doesn't have targeting sensors powerful enough to be so precise with the installation of the necessary organic and synthetic components. These components are made of nothing, and creating something from nothing is impossible, and mass effect technology doesn't change that. Also, nothing is explained about how the synthesis happens. More energy would actually make the process more deadly.
Basically, try shooting a microchip out of a cannon. The person that youshoot with it will not become a robot, they will just die.
The Crucible is NOT Prothean technology. The Crucible is the work of other species from other cycles, going millions of years back, improving upon it with each new cycle.
The Protheans almost finished it, but a groupd of separatists got the bright idea to try and control the Reapers.
Yes, you are correct, my mistake.
#116
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:25
Fingertrip
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Laurcus wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
The Crucible is literally schematics that's millions of years old- nobody know what it will do. This is explained so many times in the game that I don't know what.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
The Crucible schematics are 50,000 years old. The Crucible is Prothean technology. Prothean technology is based on the mass effect. What we knew about The Crucible is that it was capable of generating an enormous amount of energy.
No matter how much energy is generated, what the Crucible does is impossible. It doesn't have targeting sensors powerful enough to be so precise with the installation of the necessary organic and synthetic components. These components are made of nothing, and creating something from nothing is impossible, and mass effect technology doesn't change that. Also, nothing is explained about how the synthesis happens. More energy would actually make the process more deadly.
Basically, try shooting a microchip out of a cannon. The person that you shoot with it will not become a robot, they will just die.
The Crucible schematics is from not just the previous Cycle. Javik tells you it's literally millions of years old, and they failed to complete the Crucible because everyone was busy minding their god damn business.
/sigh
#117
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:26
Mandemon
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Those who try to hide behind Clarke's third law, explain me this:
This device is product of countless cycles. These cycles all use Mass Effect technology. So how did they go from "Manipulate mass of the object" to "Alter DNA with green energy"?
Also
Synthethic DNA? Synthethics don't have DNA, so how can you combine them?
Finally, to me it's very clear that they don't know what the device does because they really had no time to decipher the plans and barely got it ready in time. They got plans, it might or might not work and they have nothing to lose.
If they spend say 5 years deciphering the plans and then telling us "It releases self-replicating nanites with mass effect cores that attach themselves to DNA, effectly replacing it partly" we would say "WTF" but it would no longer be "magic". There is also need for certai ninternal consistency, you can't jsut add complety new elemenets that go against universe rules just for heck of it, you need to base them on something.
However, what we got was out of nowhere Star Child and green beam that somehow changes DNA in impossible way, even in universe.
That makes it space magic.
Also they pre-release quotes.
Space Magic:wizard: is used same way as "SPECULATIONS!", pretty much just to say whole thing is a plot hole or humorous "answer".
"Why did reapers kill us?"
"SPACE MAGIC!:wizard:"
"Ah OK"
This device is product of countless cycles. These cycles all use Mass Effect technology. So how did they go from "Manipulate mass of the object" to "Alter DNA with green energy"?
Also
Synthethic DNA? Synthethics don't have DNA, so how can you combine them?
Finally, to me it's very clear that they don't know what the device does because they really had no time to decipher the plans and barely got it ready in time. They got plans, it might or might not work and they have nothing to lose.
If they spend say 5 years deciphering the plans and then telling us "It releases self-replicating nanites with mass effect cores that attach themselves to DNA, effectly replacing it partly" we would say "WTF" but it would no longer be "magic". There is also need for certai ninternal consistency, you can't jsut add complety new elemenets that go against universe rules just for heck of it, you need to base them on something.
However, what we got was out of nowhere Star Child and green beam that somehow changes DNA in impossible way, even in universe.
That makes it space magic.
Also they pre-release quotes.
Space Magic:wizard: is used same way as "SPECULATIONS!", pretty much just to say whole thing is a plot hole or humorous "answer".
"Why did reapers kill us?"
"SPACE MAGIC!:wizard:"
"Ah OK"
Modifié par Mandemon, 27 mars 2012 - 11:28 .
#118
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:27
FatalX7.0
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FatalX7.0 wrote...
Laurcus wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
The Crucible is literally schematics that's millions of years old- nobody know what it will do. This is explained so many times in the game that I don't know what.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
The Crucible schematics are 50,000 years old. The Crucible is Prothean technology. Prothean technology is based on the mass effect. What we knew about The Crucible is that it was capable of generating an enormous amount of energy.
No matter how much energy is generated, what the Crucible does is impossible. It doesn't have targeting sensors powerful enough to be so precise with the installation of the necessary organic and synthetic components. These components are made of nothing, and creating something from nothing is impossible, and mass effect technology doesn't change that. Also, nothing is explained about how the synthesis happens. More energy would actually make the process more deadly.
Basically, try shooting a microchip out of a cannon. The person that youshoot with it will not become a robot, they will just die.
The Crucible is NOT Prothean technology. The Crucible is the work of other species from other cycles, going millions of years back, improving upon it with each new cycle.
The Protheans almost finished it, but a groupd of separatists got the bright idea to try and control the Reapers.
And, based on that little tidbit with EDI, Mass Effect is just a
phenomenon in our universe. In another universe, it might not even
exist. Their physics, their laws, could be entirely different than ours.
Modifié par FatalX7.0, 27 mars 2012 - 11:28 .
#119
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:28
FatalX7.0
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Fingertrip wrote...
Laurcus wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
The Crucible is literally schematics that's millions of years old- nobody know what it will do. This is explained so many times in the game that I don't know what.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
The Crucible schematics are 50,000 years old. The Crucible is Prothean technology. Prothean technology is based on the mass effect. What we knew about The Crucible is that it was capable of generating an enormous amount of energy.
No matter how much energy is generated, what the Crucible does is impossible. It doesn't have targeting sensors powerful enough to be so precise with the installation of the necessary organic and synthetic components. These components are made of nothing, and creating something from nothing is impossible, and mass effect technology doesn't change that. Also, nothing is explained about how the synthesis happens. More energy would actually make the process more deadly.
Basically, try shooting a microchip out of a cannon. The person that you shoot with it will not become a robot, they will just die.
The Crucible schematics is from not just the previous Cycle. Javik tells you it's literally millions of years old, and they failed to complete the Crucible because everyone was busy minding their god damn business.
/sigh
Javik doesn't know anything about the Crucible, he doesn't say any of that.The Prothean VI tells you about it.
#120
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:31
Dudefella
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Modifié par Dudefella, 27 mars 2012 - 11:33 .
#121
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:34
Fingertrip
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FatalX7.0 wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
Laurcus wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
The Crucible is literally schematics that's millions of years old- nobody know what it will do. This is explained so many times in the game that I don't know what.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
The Crucible schematics are 50,000 years old. The Crucible is Prothean technology. Prothean technology is based on the mass effect. What we knew about The Crucible is that it was capable of generating an enormous amount of energy.
No matter how much energy is generated, what the Crucible does is impossible. It doesn't have targeting sensors powerful enough to be so precise with the installation of the necessary organic and synthetic components. These components are made of nothing, and creating something from nothing is impossible, and mass effect technology doesn't change that. Also, nothing is explained about how the synthesis happens. More energy would actually make the process more deadly.
Basically, try shooting a microchip out of a cannon. The person that you shoot with it will not become a robot, they will just die.
The Crucible schematics is from not just the previous Cycle. Javik tells you it's literally millions of years old, and they failed to complete the Crucible because everyone was busy minding their god damn business.
/sigh
Javik doesn't know anything about the Crucible, he doesn't say any of that.The Prothean VI tells you about it.
He said he didn't work on it, and he couldn't help anything involving it. He did say it was really old tho. I'm 101% sure of this.
#122
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:34
The Night Mammoth
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Javik doesn't say that, Vendetta does.
That said, Javik does say a few things about the Synthetics vs. Organics situation, but I didn't know that until I played on a friends console.
That said, Javik does say a few things about the Synthetics vs. Organics situation, but I didn't know that until I played on a friends console.
#123
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:36
The Night Mammoth
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Fingertrip wrote...
FatalX7.0 wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
Laurcus wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
The Crucible is literally schematics that's millions of years old- nobody know what it will do. This is explained so many times in the game that I don't know what.
Why do people have a god damn problem with it's functionality when nobody knew what it was going to do? If it's capable of doing some bat**** crazy things, well- obviously alot of work went into it being able to do just those things.
Also; Indoctrionation Theory.
The Crucible schematics are 50,000 years old. The Crucible is Prothean technology. Prothean technology is based on the mass effect. What we knew about The Crucible is that it was capable of generating an enormous amount of energy.
No matter how much energy is generated, what the Crucible does is impossible. It doesn't have targeting sensors powerful enough to be so precise with the installation of the necessary organic and synthetic components. These components are made of nothing, and creating something from nothing is impossible, and mass effect technology doesn't change that. Also, nothing is explained about how the synthesis happens. More energy would actually make the process more deadly.
Basically, try shooting a microchip out of a cannon. The person that you shoot with it will not become a robot, they will just die.
The Crucible schematics is from not just the previous Cycle. Javik tells you it's literally millions of years old, and they failed to complete the Crucible because everyone was busy minding their god damn business.
/sigh
Javik doesn't know anything about the Crucible, he doesn't say any of that.The Prothean VI tells you about it.
He said he didn't work on it, and he couldn't help anything involving it. He did say it was really old tho. I'm 101% sure of this.
He didn't work on it because it was being built by another Prothean system. They had no way of contacting the rest of their species or travelling between them, so everything Javik knows is just rumors.
#124
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:37
Nighthunteer
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KingKhan03 wrote...
Humour is a way of coping.
:wizard:
#125
Posté 27 mars 2012 - 11:39
Shadeart
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Well this humor may get you arrested for claims by EA of using their contents.
just sayin'
just sayin'
