166 réponses à ce sujet

[Wildhide]

There's an author named Brandon Sanderson that writes the Mistborn series, Stormlight series, and will be finishing the Wheel of Time series at the request of Robert Jordan's wife.

He's a good writer, but he's particularly well known for creating magical systems that are fun, interesting, and well developed. While Mass Effect is Sci-Fi, his ideas and thoughts fit well into either universe on how to develop rules and laws of a setting.

His very first law, of which he has a good blog post on is: An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic.

You can read it here: http://brandonsander...rsons-First-Law

And while Sanderson is no ultimate literary authority, true, he's considered one of the best in developing systems that work and staying within the confines throughout his story. And he makes a lot of strong points.

If you're interested his second law can be found here: http://brandonsander...sons-Second-Law

It basically says there should be Greater limitations than Powers. You do see this throughout most of ME in regards to things such as the Mass Relays. They're incredibly effective, fast, and useful... but you can only use them to go where they are, etc.

[demonic_cookie]

Oh this is such bull, OP. Fantastic phenomena do not give the writer the license to just pull things out of various bodily orifices whenever they please. The universe has to be internally consistent. Also, even if the Crucible somehow manages to use a completely different technology (although, lolwhut? seriously, where was that technology all these years, why is there NO TRACE of it anywhere?) this whole this is still BAD WRITING. You don't introduce a completely new, game-changing plot element in the end of the story. It's like Frodo and Sam being killed by an ancient sentient flying piano just on their last push to mount doom. It might be a fantastical element, and all the previous things Tolkien wrote about Middle Earth might not be contradictory to the existence of ancient sentient flying pianos, but it still sucks from a writing standpoint. That is why the final conflict scene is between Frodo and Gollum, the established, well-known and well-understood character, and not Frodo and the piano.

[likta_]

demonic_cookie wrote...

Oh this is such bull, OP. Fantastic phenomena do not give the writer the license to just pull things out of various bodily orifices whenever they please. The universe has to be internally consistent. Also, even if the Crucible somehow manages to use a completely different technology (although, lolwhut? seriously, where was that technology all these years, why is there NO TRACE of it anywhere?) this whole this is still BAD WRITING. You don't introduce a completely new, game-changing plot element in the end of the story. It's like Frodo and Sam being killed by an ancient sentient flying piano just on their last push to mount doom. It might be a fantastical element, and all the previous things Tolkien wrote about Middle Earth might not be contradictory to the existence of ancient sentient flying pianos, but it still sucks from a writing standpoint. That is why the final conflict scene is between Frodo and Gollum, the established, well-known and well-understood character, and not Frodo and the piano.

I would pay, like, ALL OF THE MONEY, to see Frodo and the piano duke it out at Mount Doom. You, Sir, are a genius.

[demonic_cookie]

likta_, thank you, but you should know that I am a woman

[likta_]

demonic_cookie wrote...

likta_, thank you, but you should know that I am a woman

Oh, I am deeply sorry to hear that (  ), but I will say: "You. Madame, are a genius!"

[Big I]

arthurhallam wrote...
What's more is how selective you are with what you do & do not consider to be space magic.

For instance, you are all, presumbly, perfectly happy with biotics. You're all, presumbly, happy with the entire premise of the Mass Effect, which isn't just an improbability, but bends the very notion of physics in ways that are simply not & will never be possible.

I don't mind that the mass relays, element zero and biotics exist in Mass Effect 3. I have a problem with the fact that at the last minute the mass relays are established as doing three things that have nothing to do with their established function. There's no foreshadowing, no build-up. With minutes till the end of the game you're told that they can be used to a) turn off the Reapers, control the Reapers (although why you'd even need to send out the signal like that if you're replacing the Catalyst is unexplained), or c) turn all organics and synthetics in the galaxy into cyborgs. It doesn't make sense within the rules of the fiction.

[Sajuukcor76]

I find the concept of an AI construct that is able to generate a radiation pulse that effects the entire galaxy and can rewrite all life's DNA to a base template without killing anyone, but cannot cause the Citadel to operate as a Mass Relay, as per is design, without outside interference as "Space Magic".

[Dridengx]

demonic_cookie wrote...

Oh this is such bull, OP. Fantastic phenomena do not give the writer the license to just pull things out of various bodily orifices whenever they please.

I believe when you are paid to write a story and he writes it no one has a right to tell him what he can and cannot do but the person or persons who paid him to do so and in this case it's Bioware and EA both of which I'm sure you don't own. therefore, you don't have any right to tell him what he can and cannot do. your rights are simple.. buy the next game or not.

[Aerevane]

Ok, it's just that a wizard did it.

[cutegigi]

Dridengx wrote...

demonic_cookie wrote...

Oh this is such bull, OP. Fantastic phenomena do not give the writer the license to just pull things out of various bodily orifices whenever they please.

I believe when you are paid to write a story and he writes it no one has a right to tell him what he can and cannot do but the person or persons who paid him to do so and in this case it's Bioware and EA both of which I'm sure you don't own. therefore, you don't have any right to tell him what he can and cannot do. your rights are simple.. buy the next game or not.

so..... no right for voicing opinion?

[demonic_cookie]

I believe when you are paid to write a story and he writes it no one has a right to tell him what he can and cannot do but the person or persons who paid him to do so and in this case it's Bioware and EA both of which I'm sure you don't own. therefore, you don't have any right to tell him what he can and cannot do. your rights are simple.. buy the next game or not.

First, I pre-ordered the game the first opportunity I had. Hell, I pre-ordered two versions: one digital so I can play as soon as it's out, and one the CE so that I have the physical goodies. I paid for the story before it was finished, so I essentially yes, I did pay them to make the game.
Second, I have the right to say anything I please about the ending. It's my opinion as a thinking person to analyze and criticize anything that I consume.
And third, hell yes I'm not buying the next game. I'm not buying any DLC either, unless they're fixing the ending or making a Jack-centric mission. I also cancelled my CE order - it was not finished getting here before I finished the game, and I had no desire to have it here as a reminder of how disappointing and cheap the ending was.

And you cannot stop me saying whatever I please about any of it.

[Aerevane]

Dridengx wrote...

demonic_cookie wrote...

Oh this is such bull, OP. Fantastic phenomena do not give the writer the license to just pull things out of various bodily orifices whenever they please.

I believe when you are paid to write a story and he writes it no one has a right to tell him what he can and cannot do but the person or persons who paid him to do so and in this case it's Bioware and EA both of which I'm sure you don't own. therefore, you don't have any right to tell him what he can and cannot do. your rights are simple.. buy the next game or not.

I partly agree with you. When I let you write a story for me and you say 'X is going to be in, and we're going to clarify Y' as a pre-release promise, then I will hold you to that. If you leave X out, then I would not want to pay you for your story, as you didn't keep your promise. If BioWare would refund my 91 dollars (since European customers always get screwed - but then again, we're not part of the community), I would say I'm fine with their artistic integrity, but they don't offer me a refund. I've tried it via Origin and I didn't get a refund. If that's the case, I want it changed and I want to get what I was promised for my money. And yes, I'm entitled to that because of the promises made.

[JohnLena]

:wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard: 

[Arokel]

At least biotics have a decent explanation.

[SNascimento]

People use 'space magic' when they don't like something.

[Arik7]

 Grandpa, tell me more about the Shepard.
- SPACE MAGIC 

[eddieoctane]

Space magic shouldn't be used as a catch-all term. However, the crucible was space magic. Especially synthesis. I'm not going to get into the quantum physics arguments that let everything in ME makes sense right up until the Crucible sequence, but it simply couldn't happen.

And after you use space magic once, it's hard to not see it everywhere.

[Coachdongwiffle]

space magic is used to define something that couldn't happen within the context of the universe we've been explained. If they never told us people could use biotics then at the end of the Game TIM used a biotic throw that would be space magic.

[sydranark]

arthurhallam wrote...

so, on the one hand it refers to "plot holes", which lets face it, are only plot holes if you don't want to creatively interpret the possibilities at the end. 

 

It's not our job to be creative or speculate possibilities. Our creativity is limited to designing a male/female Shep, choosing armor, and selecting paths to follow. Those paths, however, are given to us by the makers of the game. When those makers fail in explaining parts of the plot, or leave inconsistencies with the lore, it is impossible to know what exactly happened in the story. 

We can be as creative as we want. We can even say "Shep never left Eden Prime, he was knocked out by the beacon and the whole thing was a dream." But that's not what actually happened.

arthurhallam wrote... 

in the other, it's referring to the very specific plot device of the catalyst, which i largely agree with, but i wouldn't call it space magic, i'd just call it narrative magic. people have called it a literal deux ex machina, but i think a better description would be diabolus ex machina. whatever, i don't want to get bogged down in this sh*t.
 

 

Semantics. Space Magic is an all-encompassing term for plot-holes, parts that challenge the lore, and general unexplained "what-the-f*ck?'s." I believe everything involving the catalyst falls in to this category. 

arthurhallam wrote...  

which brings me back to the central point: people continuously using "space magic" to describe everything that they hate about the game, irrespective of other instances of "space magic" that they're willing to overlook.

Hi, maybe you're new here. This is the internet. We house several guests, most of whom are trolls. I can promise you that if "space magic" is used improperly, it's most likely a frustrated person trying to be humorous. But if it about a topic involving any of those things I mentioned above, and Bioware simply did a crappy job filling in the holes themselves, then it is okay if people refer to it as "space magic."

What you could do is ignore those posts, it might bring your stress level down a bit. Maybe try not to think about it? Or maybe don't post a thread on "space magic" if you hate it so much. Do things that make you happy in life. Play the game again and blissfully accept the lackluster ending provided.

[sistersafetypin]

Elyiia wrote...

Space magic: Things that are illogical and/or aren't explained and don't fit in with the ME universe.

:wizard: Is the visual representation of Space Magic acceptable?

[Egonne]

Wildhide wrote...

There's an author named Brandon Sanderson that writes the Mistborn series, Stormlight series, and will be finishing the Wheel of Time series at the request of Robert Jordan's wife.

He's a good writer, but he's particularly well known for creating magical systems that are fun, interesting, and well developed. While Mass Effect is Sci-Fi, his ideas and thoughts fit well into either universe on how to develop rules and laws of a setting.

His very first law, of which he has a good blog post on is: An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic.

You can read it here: http://brandonsander...rsons-First-Law

And while Sanderson is no ultimate literary authority, true, he's considered one of the best in developing systems that work and staying within the confines throughout his story. And he makes a lot of strong points.

If you're interested his second law can be found here: http://brandonsander...sons-Second-Law

It basically says there should be Greater limitations than Powers. You do see this throughout most of ME in regards to things such as the Mass Relays. They're incredibly effective, fast, and useful... but you can only use them to go where they are, etc.

Wow...I was jsut about to post something about Sanderson.  Nicely done!

[VerdantSF]

 WHEE!

[Fruit of the Doom]

A space wizard did it.

[Egonne]

The term 'space magic' certainly applies to what the Space Kid does, and not nearly as much so to what Biotics do. It all has to do with a range and power. The greater the range and power the higher the suspension of disbelief.

Let's take everyone's favorite space wizards: Jedi's.

A jedi can do many extraordinary things. But these powers are almost all very localized. They apparently can only move things in the vicinity. They can't move something on the other side of a planet. The lower the range of the power the more believable the power. Once these ideas are established then special cases can be introduced, but overall the range limit needs to be strictly adhered to.

Another problem is the question of power. A Jedi can't simply move ANYTHING; no matter how big it is. There are limits to what they can do.

We can apply these ideas very easily to Biotics and the Space kid. Biotics create a very localized field and their power consists mainly of creating forces. The 'suspension of disbelief' is really quite low in this case.

On the other hand, the space kid is changing the DNA of every living being (or perhaps only every sentient being) in the galaxy. The range of his power is on a galactic scale. Even assuming that he has to use the Mass relays as 'centers' (a reasonable assumption) he still has a range of thousands of light years. Also, he is manipulating very complex protein molecules in an extremely specific way. What he is doing is extremely complex and he is doing it over an incredible range. The suspension of disbelief is HUGE in his case.

Hence the phrase...'space magic'

[GreyLycanTrope]

You're right, we should clarify by asking, "when did the Normandy get teleport technology?" to properly address the plothole