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[hckf2]

So this is not a KL hate thread or anything, so please don't start that.
I didn't see anything written about this so forgive me, if the forum moved to fast for me and it already is in some other thread.

So in the Final Hours App from Geoff Keighley there is this interview with Casey Hudson about how the decision not to create a final boss battle came to be.
The argument is simply that they didn't want to put a final boss into the game just for the sake of having a final boss. He uses the picture of the randomly appearing tentacle monster that suddenly appears in many games.
Also in the "Art of the Mass Effect Universe" artbook there are sketches of a transformed TIM as a final boss, with a note saying that this idea was abandoned because TIM was never about battle prowess but about manipulation and cleverness.

Now in itself these arguments DO make sense and I would be completely okay with it, if it wasn't for one thing: KAI LENG.

I'm not talking about the thing with "Ninja's in Space"(sounds like a Mel Brooks movie:pinched:).
I didn't mind that really, as I also like to watch animes from time to time so I'm probably used to it or something.

My problem is that final battle against KL itself. You know when you fight him in TIMs office. It's the perfect adaption of a videogamey boss battle.
Not only is it parted in, lower his shields times 3, before you can actually touch him.
No when his shields are low enough each time he jumps into the middle of the room and kneels down, which for some reason, makes him invulnerable?!
Seriously??

This is such a stark contrast to the rest of the game mechanics that it just stands out like a sore thumb.

Adding such a boss fight, you could even add a one on one between Harby and Shep, which wouldn't look more wierd.

[Descy_]

hckf2 wrote...
 how the decision not to create a final boss battle came to be.

Marauder Shields.

Never forget.

[alx119]

Agreed.

[hckf2]

Marauder Shields is my hero.

I'll never forget for the rest of my life

[-Sxx-]

Yeah I wasn't sure what was going on either. Though I laughed when KL got stuck in one of the damaged floor plates and couldn't get out, thankfully ended his existence pretty quickly.

[DraCZeQQ]

Descy_ wrote...

hckf2 wrote...
 how the decision not to create a final boss battle came to be.

Marauder Shields.

Never forget.

Never forget! 

[Nefelius]

If they didn't want ME3 to be video gamey, they should have considered removing every enemy there is to shoot at.

[Nighthunteer]

Never forget.

[knmedic]

I also rolled my eyes when I got his shields down to 1 square and them kept hammering him but couldn't actually shatter his shields until he went and became even more invincible and recharged one more time.

[Team Value]

I agree. Even putting aside complaints about Kai Leng as a character, the fight with him is underwhelming. He basically ran around a little and sat down a lot.

[Panicomatic]

I wish this was a KL hate thread, there aren't enough of them. He's a space ninja, straight out of an anime. He serves no function, and they are only able to establish his "badassness" through scripted fights that you unrealistically lose. I can't think of anything more cliche then this character, except maybe an ending that revolves around an ultimate weapon that magically removes the reapers, one that no one understands how it works but blindly creates anyways. There's also the omnipotent godchild that didn't exist until 5 minutes left in the game.

[spacefiddle]

A side effect of BW's deciding to keep silent on this for so long is: the longer we have to ponder all their statements, the more holes are spotted therein.

Honestly, to DA myself for a sec, in that light I'd prefer they stop making silly PR spin statements and just go decide what to do already. So maybe it's a good sign. Because yeah, I didn't even think of this, and so much of what they've said since customer reaction became noticible is just... silly.

[prizm123]

dunno bout you guys, but I make it a point to ALWAYS finish him off with a headshot from my ole trusty Widow.... so satisfying

[AntonioA9011]

Panicomatic wrote...

I wish this was a KL hate thread, there aren't enough of them. He's a space ninja, straight out of an anime. He serves no function, and they are only able to establish his "badassness" through scripted fights that you unrealistically lose. I can't think of anything more cliche then this character, except maybe an ending that revolves around an ultimate weapon that magically removes the reapers, one that no one understands how it works but blindly creates anyways. There's also the omnipotent godchild that didn't exist until 5 minutes left in the game.

^^^^This. Though I have to disagree that he's straight out of an anime. I think he looked more like TIM broke him out of Final Fantasy VII's villian training academy.

[AntonioA9011]

spacefiddle wrote...

A side effect of BW's deciding to keep silent on this for so long is: the longer we have to ponder all their statements, the more holes are spotted therein.

Honestly, to DA myself for a sec, in that light I'd prefer they stop making silly PR spin statements and just go decide what to do already. So maybe it's a good sign. Because yeah, I didn't even think of this, and so much of what they've said since customer reaction became noticible is just... silly.

^^^^^Mmm-hmmm. Right on the money, Spacefiddle.

[majinbuu1307]

Yeah...too videogamey...In a video game...

Too video gamey would be Shepard smashing his head on the ceiling above him trying to find coins. Or smashing boxes and finding masks that protect you. YAY CRASH BANDICOOT!

[orangesonic]

Kai leng who??

[Riknas]

I think saying that a fight in a game is a bit too much like a video game is a bit...odd. Even so, I understand your point. Though to be honest I think it was important we made the segment with Kai Leng special in some way. It wasn't great, but it was kind of interesting, and I'm not sure anyone would have been satisfied if he was just like a regular cerberus trooper we could headshot and just move on from. Especially not after all that build up and awesome things he had done up to that point.

Duel with Thane? Sword in our speeder, leaping back onto another one? That's some impressive stuff.

[Mojenator12345]

I'm not going to defend KL, but Hudson was absolutely right that a TIM boss fight would have been too videogamey. Would definitely have triggered my gag reflex. Boss battles are fine for Super Mario Bros or Metroid, but if you're trying to engage in storytelling any boss battle needs to be handled carefully to ensure that it fits the story. TIM turning into a combatant would not have fit. Not that they did a great job with KL, but I'm glad it was him instead of TIM.

[halbert986]

first time I fought him garrus pulled some pro sniper move and totally annihilated him in like 30 seconds. I had no idea what was going on but somehow he'd gone from full health to dead and I was ok with that. 2nd play through went more like you would think and was actually difficult.

They were just gun shy because of ME2's poor excuse for a boss battle. This would have been well suited to a massive, fleet involved showdown with harbinger but instead we talked a guy to death and then got talked to death by a glowing child.

I wanted a showdown with harbinger. I fully expected it. I got tired of killing the baby reapers and I was expecting to get a chance to see some sovereign class reapers blow to bits. Never saw it happen. Sure one got a few legs blown off but he kept on going.

[crimzontearz]

why?

LOTS OF SPECULATION IS NEEDED


TROLOLOLOLOL

[WarpedAcorn]

I thought the same thing at that statement. Kai Leng was the avatar of video game cliches, from bringing a sword to a gunfight, to having RP armor, striking poses that are of NO tactical benefit...not to mention the "stages" of combat where he goes invulnerable.

[Carcharoth42]

hckf2 wrote...
My problem is that final battle against KL itself. You know when you fight him in TIMs office. It's the perfect adaption of a videogamey boss battle.
Not only is it parted in, lower his shields times 3, before you can actually touch him.
No when his shields are low enough each time he jumps into the middle of the room and kneels down, which for some reason, makes him invulnerable?!

Kai Leng is protected by the most powerful force in the galaxy... plot armor. Without his invulnerable periods it would be an incredibly easy fight. His WTFpwnage of a suddenly incompetent Shep during cutscenes was more annoying.