228 réponses à ce sujet

[sartt]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote..

The title of the thread is ironic because the OP has no logic either

Go easy on him.. He's a husk, Im surprised he can type coherently!

So the Asari have finally mastered Writing.

[mackan__s]

Can you prove the opposite then?

[Draconis6666]

sartt wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

sartt wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well thinking you have a choice is a major part of being indocrinated. So giving the control option to Shepard while he is thinking he has free will is key.

He had a Choice 3 Choices actually. 1 choice was to control which would not have been possible if he was Indoctrinated as the Illusive man was already there before him and tried and failed. BECAUSE THE ILLUSIVE MAN WAS ALREADY UNDER THE REAPERS CONTROL. Why is that so hard to understand?

Because it has nothing to do with the theory?

If the theory is true then the choice doesnt actualy exist, its a construct of shepards mind,  The choice is possible because it represents giving in to the reapers, the indoctrination theory clearly rely s ont he fact that none of it actualy happens and is all in shepards mind. Your argument is completely rediculous because it ignores every basic logical concept of the theory and claims the issue is false through arguing a statement that has nothing to do with the premises that comprise the theory.

Your argument makes no sense anyway, control is the option the reapers WANT you to pick indoctrinated or not. Even if you assume that its all real, TIM chose control BECAUSE he was indoctrinated, so of course they will give you the option its what they want. Your argument makes no sense at all, the option that should not exist if shepard is indoctrinated is destroy, and even that is only true if he is completely indoctrinated already which is not what the theory even states to begin with,

So then what blew up the mass relays ultimately destroying the Reapers? A Reaper slave? 

Tim choose control because thats what he wanted, but he couldn't BECAUSE TIM WAS ALREADY INDOCTRINATED.

The option that should not exist if he was indoctrinated would e the Destroy option.... WHICH WAS AN OPTION. You seriously trying to debate me when you proved yourself wrong.

Except yoru again ignoring the fact that none of it actualy happens, and in fact if you paid Any attention at all which you clearly didint the only ending that does NOT destroy the citadel is control, Control is the least damaging to the reapers of every ending. There is also no proof that control is more than temporary and the reapers wont come back 5 years later or the next day. Its the most beneficial ending for the reapers in terms of their current programing.

But your still ignoring the premise of the theory, the theory is the concept that he is NOT indoctrinated but is BEING indoctrinated, the entire ending from being blasted at the conduit takes place in his head. The control ending is submission to the reapers because its accepting their concept of reality and becoming a part of them. synthesis is the same, Destroy represents denying the indoctrination. None of the choices are actualy choices in terms of the theory because none of them actualy happen they are symbolic choices within a mental contstruct representing submission, acceptance, or denial of indoctrination.

I don't actualy support the theory but you cannot prove it as logicaly untrue with the statement you made.

[wryterra]

Reign Tsumiraki wrote...

 

I can tell. 

[Lancane]

It's only illogical once proven such, even if the theory does not pertain to the current ending or any changes that may or may not be made at a later date, there is enough information as of right now through various sources, including the games themselves to develop a valid hypothesis that supports the theory...without argument. Unless Bioware themselves come out and state that the Indoctrination Theorists are wrong, the only illogical argument is the anti-theoretical one with no footing to stand on other then you simply disagree or can not grasp the possibility as others have come to.

[CrystalXPredator]

space magic IS space magic and i never change my mind til i see the official statemant
from BioWare wich told us "sorry the indoctrination is not true because this has happened..." you know?!
Perhaps we concentrate to much on what happen with our crew included shepard.
But please accept our minds because we accept your minds why the theory is false!!!
So i don't care about YOU GUY'S who trolling people where believe this theory!!
They are just humans like YOU AND ME!! so you can discuss with us why
you think it isn't true but be CIVIL.

[sartt]

kkndgr wrote...

@OP
You didn't understand the logic behind the indoctrination theory or you didn't read it .So your point is invalid . I don't see why we have to reject it . It is an alternative that can lead to the great finale smoothly.

Actually i understood it well. Which is why i already know its complete and utter BULL****.
 

• 3  OPTIONS CONTROL
• Control THE REAPERS YOU ARE IN CONTROL NOTHING FORCES YOU TO DO ANYTHING
• SYNTHESIS NEW D.N.A IMMORTALITY THE END OF THE CYCLES OF DESTRUCTION GREEN GLOWING SKIN AND EYE ON JOKER AND EDI PROVES THIS
  
• Destroy DESTROYING ALL THE REAPERS AND ALL THE MASS RELAYS AND ANYONE CAUGHT IN THE BLAST RADIUS

Shepard could not be indoctrinated at or up to or after this point. HE HAD HIS " OWN CHOICE "

[Reign Tsumiraki]

sartt, thanks for the laugh. Your trolling has made my day.

And I mean that as a honest thank you.

Modifié par Reign Tsumiraki, 27 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[Draconis6666]

Also TIM chose control because its the option the Reapers wanted him to chose, the catalyst only states that he would never have actually controlled them because they already controlled him. The fact that they already control him makes it impossible for him to have chosen the option if it is not what the reapers wanted..

Same with Saren whos concept is basically the synthesis option, both believe they are making their own choice but they are not.

[RavenEyry]

I'm not reading the whole thread so this has probably been brought up already, but: If you'd ever actually read anything about indoctrination theory, you'd know we have never said Shepard was indoctrinated, thus your argument is invalid.

[DragonRageGT]

What part of the I.T. being an indoctrination attempt, not an indoctrination completed, you did not understand, oh mighty I-can-think-for-myself-and-understand-nothing supreme being?

[sartt]

Draconis6666 wrote...

sartt wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

sartt wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well thinking you have a choice is a major part of being indocrinated. So giving the control option to Shepard while he is thinking he has free will is key.

He had a Choice 3 Choices actually. 1 choice was to control which would not have been possible if he was Indoctrinated as the Illusive man was already there before him and tried and failed. BECAUSE THE ILLUSIVE MAN WAS ALREADY UNDER THE REAPERS CONTROL. Why is that so hard to understand?

Because it has nothing to do with the theory?

If the theory is true then the choice doesnt actualy exist, its a construct of shepards mind,  The choice is possible because it represents giving in to the reapers, the indoctrination theory clearly rely s ont he fact that none of it actualy happens and is all in shepards mind. Your argument is completely rediculous because it ignores every basic logical concept of the theory and claims the issue is false through arguing a statement that has nothing to do with the premises that comprise the theory.

Your argument makes no sense anyway, control is the option the reapers WANT you to pick indoctrinated or not. Even if you assume that its all real, TIM chose control BECAUSE he was indoctrinated, so of course they will give you the option its what they want. Your argument makes no sense at all, the option that should not exist if shepard is indoctrinated is destroy, and even that is only true if he is completely indoctrinated already which is not what the theory even states to begin with,

So then what blew up the mass relays ultimately destroying the Reapers? A Reaper slave? 

Tim choose control because thats what he wanted, but he couldn't BECAUSE TIM WAS ALREADY INDOCTRINATED.

The option that should not exist if he was indoctrinated would e the Destroy option.... WHICH WAS AN OPTION. You seriously trying to debate me when you proved yourself wrong.

Except yoru again ignoring the fact that none of it actualy happens, and in fact if you paid Any attention at all which you clearly didint the only ending that does NOT destroy the citadel is control, Control is the least damaging to the reapers of every ending. There is also no proof that control is more than temporary and the reapers wont come back 5 years later or the next day. Its the most beneficial ending for the reapers in terms of their current programing.

But your still ignoring the premise of the theory, the theory is the concept that he is NOT indoctrinated but is BEING indoctrinated, the entire ending from being blasted at the conduit takes place in his head. The control ending is submission to the reapers because its accepting their concept of reality and becoming a part of them. synthesis is the same, Destroy represents denying the indoctrination. None of the choices are actualy choices in terms of the theory because none of them actualy happen they are symbolic choices within a mental contstruct representing submission, acceptance, or denial of indoctrination.

I don't actualy support the theory but you cannot prove it as logicaly untrue with the statement you made.

So none of it happened? So at the end of the Perfect ending where it showed shepard alive amidst the rubble was all a dream right? I guess Bioware and E.A have finally  learned how to indoctrinate real people into believing they are playing a game with choices

[Draconis6666]

sartt wrote...

kkndgr wrote...

@OP
You didn't understand the logic behind the indoctrination theory or you didn't read it .So your point is invalid . I don't see why we have to reject it . It is an alternative that can lead to the great finale smoothly.

Actually i understood it well. Which is why i already know its complete and utter BULL****.
 

• 3  OPTIONS CONTROL
• Control THE REAPERS YOU ARE IN CONTROL NOTHING FORCES YOU TO DO ANYTHING
• SYNTHESIS NEW D.N.A IMMORTALITY THE END OF THE CYCLES OF DESTRUCTION GREEN GLOWING SKIN AND EYE ON JOKER AND EDI PROVES THIS
  
• Destroy DESTROYING ALL THE REAPERS AND ALL THE MASS RELAYS AND ANYONE CAUGHT IN THE BLAST RADIUS

Shepard could not be indoctrinated at or up to or after this point. HE HAD HIS " OWN CHOICE "
[

Problem is your points have nothign to do with the theory so your points explictly prove that you do NOT undestand the theory, because the choices themselves are NOT REAL if the theory is correct. The Results are symbolic, beyond that you are as naive as shepard is in the game for accepting that the catalyst has any reason to tell you the truth and that everything it tells you is true. There is no evidence that control does anything except make the reapers leave for a bit, there is no evidence of its permanancy or that you have done anything more than delay the cycle a little longer at the cost of the entire mass relay network,

[Gyspy Jive]

Your thread has no logic. It Isn't real. So stop saying that you are intelligent, when you clearly are not.

[Draconis6666]

sartt wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

sartt wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

sartt wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well thinking you have a choice is a major part of being indocrinated. So giving the control option to Shepard while he is thinking he has free will is key.

He had a Choice 3 Choices actually. 1 choice was to control which would not have been possible if he was Indoctrinated as the Illusive man was already there before him and tried and failed. BECAUSE THE ILLUSIVE MAN WAS ALREADY UNDER THE REAPERS CONTROL. Why is that so hard to understand?

Because it has nothing to do with the theory?

If the theory is true then the choice doesnt actualy exist, its a construct of shepards mind,  The choice is possible because it represents giving in to the reapers, the indoctrination theory clearly rely s ont he fact that none of it actualy happens and is all in shepards mind. Your argument is completely rediculous because it ignores every basic logical concept of the theory and claims the issue is false through arguing a statement that has nothing to do with the premises that comprise the theory.

Your argument makes no sense anyway, control is the option the reapers WANT you to pick indoctrinated or not. Even if you assume that its all real, TIM chose control BECAUSE he was indoctrinated, so of course they will give you the option its what they want. Your argument makes no sense at all, the option that should not exist if shepard is indoctrinated is destroy, and even that is only true if he is completely indoctrinated already which is not what the theory even states to begin with,

So then what blew up the mass relays ultimately destroying the Reapers? A Reaper slave? 

Tim choose control because thats what he wanted, but he couldn't BECAUSE TIM WAS ALREADY INDOCTRINATED.

The option that should not exist if he was indoctrinated would e the Destroy option.... WHICH WAS AN OPTION. You seriously trying to debate me when you proved yourself wrong.

Except yoru again ignoring the fact that none of it actualy happens, and in fact if you paid Any attention at all which you clearly didint the only ending that does NOT destroy the citadel is control, Control is the least damaging to the reapers of every ending. There is also no proof that control is more than temporary and the reapers wont come back 5 years later or the next day. Its the most beneficial ending for the reapers in terms of their current programing.

But your still ignoring the premise of the theory, the theory is the concept that he is NOT indoctrinated but is BEING indoctrinated, the entire ending from being blasted at the conduit takes place in his head. The control ending is submission to the reapers because its accepting their concept of reality and becoming a part of them. synthesis is the same, Destroy represents denying the indoctrination. None of the choices are actualy choices in terms of the theory because none of them actualy happen they are symbolic choices within a mental contstruct representing submission, acceptance, or denial of indoctrination.

I don't actualy support the theory but you cannot prove it as logicaly untrue with the statement you made.

So none of it happened? So at the end of the Perfect ending where it showed shepard alive amidst the rubble was all a dream right? I guess Bioware and E.A have finally  learned how to indoctrinate real people into believing they are playing a game with choices

You are again ignoring the theory completely with that statement, the shepard alive admist the ruble is only seen at the end of Destroy because its the only situation where you actualy resist indoctrination and wake up, by the theory.

[Draconis6666]

Gyspy Jive wrote...

Your thread has no logic. It Isn't real. So stop saying that you are intelligent, when you clearly are not.

Yeah pretty much this... the list of logical fallacies that are used in your statements to say something else is not logical is mind bogglingly long.

[draken-heart]

Draconis6666 wrote...

sartt wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

sartt wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

sartt wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Well thinking you have a choice is a major part of being indocrinated. So giving the control option to Shepard while he is thinking he has free will is key.

He had a Choice 3 Choices actually. 1 choice was to control which would not have been possible if he was Indoctrinated as the Illusive man was already there before him and tried and failed. BECAUSE THE ILLUSIVE MAN WAS ALREADY UNDER THE REAPERS CONTROL. Why is that so hard to understand?

Because it has nothing to do with the theory?

If the theory is true then the choice doesnt actualy exist, its a construct of shepards mind,  The choice is possible because it represents giving in to the reapers, the indoctrination theory clearly rely s ont he fact that none of it actualy happens and is all in shepards mind. Your argument is completely rediculous because it ignores every basic logical concept of the theory and claims the issue is false through arguing a statement that has nothing to do with the premises that comprise the theory.

Your argument makes no sense anyway, control is the option the reapers WANT you to pick indoctrinated or not. Even if you assume that its all real, TIM chose control BECAUSE he was indoctrinated, so of course they will give you the option its what they want. Your argument makes no sense at all, the option that should not exist if shepard is indoctrinated is destroy, and even that is only true if he is completely indoctrinated already which is not what the theory even states to begin with,

So then what blew up the mass relays ultimately destroying the Reapers? A Reaper slave? 

Tim choose control because thats what he wanted, but he couldn't BECAUSE TIM WAS ALREADY INDOCTRINATED.

The option that should not exist if he was indoctrinated would e the Destroy option.... WHICH WAS AN OPTION. You seriously trying to debate me when you proved yourself wrong.

Except yoru again ignoring the fact that none of it actualy happens, and in fact if you paid Any attention at all which you clearly didint the only ending that does NOT destroy the citadel is control, Control is the least damaging to the reapers of every ending. There is also no proof that control is more than temporary and the reapers wont come back 5 years later or the next day. Its the most beneficial ending for the reapers in terms of their current programing.

But your still ignoring the premise of the theory, the theory is the concept that he is NOT indoctrinated but is BEING indoctrinated, the entire ending from being blasted at the conduit takes place in his head. The control ending is submission to the reapers because its accepting their concept of reality and becoming a part of them. synthesis is the same, Destroy represents denying the indoctrination. None of the choices are actualy choices in terms of the theory because none of them actualy happen they are symbolic choices within a mental contstruct representing submission, acceptance, or denial of indoctrination.

I don't actualy support the theory but you cannot prove it as logicaly untrue with the statement you made.

So none of it happened? So at the end of the Perfect ending where it showed shepard alive amidst the rubble was all a dream right? I guess Bioware and E.A have finally  learned how to indoctrinate real people into believing they are playing a game with choices

You are again ignoring the theory completely with that statement, the shepard alive admist the ruble is only seen at the end of Destroy because its the only situation where you actualy resist indoctrination and wake up, by the theory.

i am getting tired of seeing these threads bashing one another. Can't we all agree to disagree?

[Aurvant]

Dear OP,

If you can tell me how it is remotely possible for Shepard to atomize and then suddenly be able to control the reapers you might have a valid argument.

If you can explain to me what the crucible actually does or how it's even possible that Shepard leaping in to a beam of light can alter the very DNA of every organic creature or CREATE DNA IN SYNTHETIC LIFE WHEN NONE EXISTS then you might have an argument.

If you can explain to me why, after the destroy ending (and only the destroy ending), Shepard wakes up after the Citadel was completely torn apart from explosions...you might have something that kinda resembles an argument.

The problem....is that you cannot address those issues because IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

/chewbaccadefense

[sartt]

RavenEyry wrote...

I'm not reading the whole thread so this has probably been brought up already, but: If you'd ever actually read anything about indoctrination theory, you'd know we have never said Shepard was indoctrinated, thus your argument is invalid.

" I'm not reading the whole thread " followed up by "  If you'd ever actually read anything " makes me LolZ if you have kept reading you would know i don't agree with the Indoctrination theory. I kinda made that obvious in my title.The whole point of this post was for people who throught that Shepard was " INDOCTRINATED " because there are some who think he is.
 








You serious?  The indoctrination thread . WOULD NEVER BEEN MADE IF THE O.P thought he wasn't or was indoctrinated.

[Draconis6666]

draken-heart wrote...

i am getting tired of seeing these threads bashing one another. Can't we all agree to disagree?

No, not in this case, we can agree to disagree against the theory itself all we want, but there is no agreeing with using bad or non existant logic to call other things illogical.

[Aurvant]

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR FORMATTING!?

[Draconis6666]

sartt wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

I'm not reading the whole thread so this has probably been brought up already, but: If you'd ever actually read anything about indoctrination theory, you'd know we have never said Shepard was indoctrinated, thus your argument is invalid.

" I'm not reading the whole thread " followed up by "  If you'd ever actually read anything " makes me LolZ if you have kept reading you would know i don't agree with the Indoctrination theory. I kinda made that obvious in my title.The whole point of this post was for people who throught that Shepard was " INDOCTRINATED " because there are some who think he is.
 








You serious?  The indoctrination thread . WOULD NEVER BEEN MADE IF THE O.P thought he wasn't or was indoctrinated.

except the indoctrination theory doesnt think he is indoctrinated.... they think he is BEING indoctrinated....there is large fundamental difference between the two

[RavenEyry]

sartt wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

I'm not reading the whole thread so this has probably been brought up already, but: If you'd ever actually read anything about indoctrination theory, you'd know we have never said Shepard was indoctrinated, thus your argument is invalid.

" I'm not reading the whole thread " followed up by "  If you'd ever actually read anything " makes me LolZ if you have kept reading you would know i don't agree with the Indoctrination theory. I kinda made that obvious in my title.The whole point of this post was for people who throught that Shepard was " INDOCTRINATED " because there are some who think he is.
 

You serious?  The indoctrination thread . WOULD NEVER BEEN MADE IF THE O.P thought he wasn't or was indoctrinated.

I should have been more clear. I read your whole post, I just didn't read every reply to check if my point had already been made.

[Malevolence65]

sartt wrote...

Hey buddy, shouldn't you be at school?

[sartt]

Aurvant wrote...

Dear OP,

If you can tell me how it is remotely possible for Shepard to atomize and then suddenly be able to control the reapers you might have a valid argument.

If you can explain to me what the crucible actually does or how it's even possible that Shepard leaping in to a beam of light can alter the very DNA of every organic creature or CREATE DNA IN SYNTHETIC LIFE WHEN NONE EXISTS then you might have an argument.

If you can explain to me why, after the destroy ending (and only the destroy ending), Shepard wakes up after the Citadel was completely torn apart from explosions...you might have something that kinda resembles an argument.

The problem....is that you cannot address those issues because IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

/chewbaccadefense

Well #1 Thats the option Bioware gave us? what other options were there? do nothing opthing at let the Reapers destroy all advanced organic life?
#2 The Citadel is indestructable or it has strong mass effect fields, that either. A prevented or absorbed the brunt of the relay explosions or Shepard survived those was ejected out of the Citadel and landed on earth in some Bomb and ruined filled city.

I like the mass effect field " Theory "  imean they did build a base in the center of the galaxy surrounded by black holes.