102 réponses à ce sujet

[eschilde]

I think Bioware took a step in the right direction with the toolset.. I've seen some seriously nice looking armor sets (well, plate anyway.. I haven't looked too hard though..) from the modding community here.



You know, you can tell that Bioware put in a lot of work.. personally, I kind of like how the armor looks.. for the most part (especially for the girls) it looks protective and fairly comfortable (except Morrigan.. yeah.. her outfit.. don't really know what's up with that..), especially the Warden Commander armor. That set looks awesome



It would be nice to have more variety with weapons and armor, but I think the modding community can cover a lot of what Bioware couldn't with this particular game. It's a little unfortunate you only have access to the toolset and mods, etc. if you have the PC version though..

[Sol Nox]

I'm throwing my hat in here. First and foremost, I love the game, am tres happy with it. Beyond that, I agree more variety in models (character, armour, weapons) would've been greatly appreciated.

To add to that list, tattoos as well. Not so much the designs but the placement. Granted, in this game it wasn't often you saw your character's arms, legs or torso bare, but perhaps it could be considered in the future (when there are more armour styles that may reveal skin here or there). Heavy armour probably wouldn't lend itself to revealing a character's ink, but a mage's outfit might. Ah, while I'm on this - at least on the console - colour of the tattoos could've been better. Even at their highest intensity they pretty much came out as a dark grey/brownish tint of red, green, blue, whatever.

As for the character models, I'd definitely like to see more unique ones, particularly when it comes to main characters. Witherfang (was it?) really stood out to me. There was no one that looked remotely like her, hell even her hair was special to her. But she was only in the story for a bit whereas a lot of other main characters could've been easily recreated in the CC more or less. Alistair, Wynne, Zevran, Leliana, immediately come to mind. In my opinion anyway, they are prime examples of characters that should stand out more than the average Fereldan walking around. Morrigan, on the other hand, clearly had a lot of attention paid to her (and as the face of the game, why not?) and that gave the impression she was somehow more special or "better" than the other party members which simply isn't true. (I mean, we all have our favourites, sure, but that doesn't mean any of them should be marked out aesthetically as better, worse; more effort put into the model.)

Eh, my two cents.

[Kalfear]

I gotta say, I had no issue with any of the topics the OP mentioned with game and Laughed Out Loud with her off handed comment that game was dumbed down for Consoles (way to show your hand all at once missy)



My complaints always have and always will remain more about USA morality being the norm in game and the forced "in your face" gay stuff that simply wasnt needed or wanted (beyond a vocal minority).



But those topics done already so no sence rehashing old threads.



Bioware, I had no issues with models or outfits and though both varied enough to keep it interesting!



Please continue to consentrate on story first as thats the real magic of this game, the rest of stuff OP talking about is just window dressing and nothing more.

[KalosCast]

VanDraegon wrote...

I think i speak for a majority of DA fans in saying that we dont want stupid and ridiculous weapons and armor like in WoW and Aion.

I thought Aion's models were very high quality, especially if you consider the average graphics of an MMO, and fit with the theme of the rest of the game. They wouldn't really fit in Dragon Age, sure, but they're two wholly different settings.

Bibdy wrote...

I suggest taking up a career in 3D modeling. You're obviously very passionate about it and since feel that their modelers were clearly lazy, you must be able to do a much better job and able to pump out equally detailed character and object models in no time flat! You'll be a hero of the industry.

You don't have to be a biology professor to recognize a turd.

Modifié par KalosCast, 02 décembre 2009 - 04:31 .

[BewareTheDrow]

I agree completely with the OP. The game is great, but the models, variety, and polish leaved much to be desired.

[Alneverus]

At the end of the day, they should have taken the time to develop more models than they did, sense they obviously had the time. If someone wants to claim they didn't and give some reason to it in terms of hours then they also need to factor in the time from the game's announcement to about a month or two before release. Either they didn't focus on hard set benchmarks or they didn't even bother with them.



While many cite plate as having a lot of viable options, that is about as far as it really gets. As the OP pointed out there isn't a lot of choice when it comes to light armor/mage robes. To use light armor as an example a lot of that is just re-colored and shipped out. Prime example would be Shadow of the Empire looks like a recolored version of standard leather armor.

[berelinde]

LordAsael wrote...

The models don't mean much to me, especially the weapons and armor sets. It's nice to have a few "chase" items that are unique in their appearance, but other than that ... I can take or leave it. It's an RPG, so story and character development are huge. The more I can manipulate the world and my companions, the better. So far the game has looked pretty good in that regards to me, but I would still love for more.

Lord Asael speaks for me, as well. It's an RPG. Story and characters are more important to me than whether my rogue's helmet looks stupid. When I'm deciding which game I want t play, I have never said "Oh, I want to play Oblivion tonight so I can look at some cool weapons and character mods." No, I'm reaching for the game whose story makes me play into the small hours of the morning.

So, if the sequel is going to sink money into improvements, I'd rather the focus was on content, not on wardrobe accessories.

[VanDraegon]

Alneverus wrote...

At the end of the day, they should have taken the time to develop more models than they did, sense they obviously had the time. If someone wants to claim they didn't and give some reason to it in terms of hours then they also need to factor in the time from the game's announcement to about a month or two before release. Either they didn't focus on hard set benchmarks or they didn't even bother with them.
.

So, they had enough time to develope a large variaty of weapons, armors, robes, helms, etc because you said they did?  Uh huh....

While a large variety of armors and weapons would be great it isnt a hinderance to the game or story. Which is what Bioware did spend a lot of time on, obviously. I am sure that we will see more variety in the DLC and expansions and hopefully they will stick with the design style they have going now. Everything has a more realistic look, not the stupidly exaggarated styles as in WoW.

[Alneverus]

VanDraegon wrote...
So, they had enough time to develope a large variaty of weapons, armors, robes, helms, etc because you said they did?  Uh huh....

While a large variety of armors and weapons would be great it isnt a hinderance to the game or story. Which is what Bioware did spend a lot of time on, obviously. I am sure that we will see more variety in the DLC and expansions and hopefully they will stick with the design style they have going now. Everything has a more realistic look, not the stupidly exaggarated styles as in WoW.

I don't recall stating anything in regards to Wow, honestly. But my previous post used the example of the Shadow of the Empire armor being a recolor of leather armor. Unless the artists also had to write the story, the duration of production provided time to offer a heavier modification than simply using the same model(s) for all light armor in the example used.

And it isn't the fact I said they did, it is the simple fact that the time was present. Either they didn't properly plan or simply had no desire to. Something doesn't have to be drasitcally exaggerated to be different. As for being realistic, there are various styles of armor throughout history that can be used as a basis.

[RunCDFirst]

Your wish is granted. The sequel will take place in Orlais and there will be a variety of masks that players can wear to beautify themselves.



Unfortunately, everyone will also be speaking with a French accent.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I agree with the op. Hoods are made for Rogues and assassins. Where are our hoods?!

And yes, both mages and rogiues get alot less than warriors in terms of looks.

[Kinaori]

Leather armor and mage hoods were boring and ugly, respectively. Is that the first thing I'd want them to look at in a sequel? Absolutely not. Heh.



I more hope they'll do cutscene epilogues instead of text boxes. That was my single biggest gripe.

[Rainen89]

I was disappointed with leather armor and robes. (All the robes, past starting were exact same skin, different shading.) Same with leather. As well as helmets. Plate got much more love. Please for all that's holy don't ever do anything like the mage origin, ever again. When you compare it to the drama of the others.



City elf your wife or you is about to be raped unless you kill some humans.

Dwarf noble your brother is planning an inhouse coup and you're banished to fight for your life until you reach duncan

Human noble your entire family is massacred by a treacherous Howe

Dwarf noble you work for a crime lord to prevent your sister from being killed/abused further while also dealing with an oppressive caste system.



mage you uh help your friend run away after killing some defense system of magically infused suits of armor and spending 10 minutes in the fade answering riddles and killing wisps.

[asaiasai]

I do not mind newer models for armors and weapons, what i do not want to see is a loot system that tries to keep pace with WoW. This game is not really about the gear, it is about choices and tactics, while better gear is avaliable either to buy or find, it should not become some treasure hunt with a running story. I played a game called The Witcher, gear was pretty much non existent, but the game was not centered around the quest for more gear it was based in gathering knowledge on your foes, using that knowledge to create the right alchemical potions to counter or minimize the enemies abilities, and skill in maintaing timing and targeting of your foes during combat.

This game is not The Witcher but instead of having the developers spend copious amounts of time creating gear for me how about just allowing me the player to design the gear in game, allow me to depending upon quality of the gear enhance with a few stats of my choice.

For exampleI would go into the Wonders of Thedas shop in Denerim and choose the model of armor first, make changes to the look. For example i pick the robes of the witch model for my mage and based upon my gold, player stats can only equip a level one item.I do not like the tattered ends and the animal skin shoulders so i could square off the ends and remove the animal skin shoulders. Next i would select a color and a palatte would pop up and allow me to choose a few colors applied where i want them. I am no satisfied with how the armor looks now i have to apply bonuses, being that this armor is level one i have only 10 points to spen on bonuses. Each bonus has a point cost so for example i would choose .50 mana regen while in combat which would cost 5 points, i want +2 to cunning which costs 3 points, finally the last 2 points are spent in +2 spell damage. A nice little cut scene pops up with an elf sewing thier butt off followed by a mage working some mojo and bam the proprieter hands you your designed set of robes. Equip and roll on.

Like Starfang it is a nice weapon stats wise but i would make it look much plainer instead of the current shape, i would make it closer to a plain blade with the runic etchings, to each his own right? So when i walk up the the weapon smith and hand him my lump of star metal i could have several different shapes to choose from. Instead of its current shape i would have liked something that looks a bit more practicle and functional than the current blade shape. I would just like the ability in game to choose how the weapon looks.

When it comes to drops you could have an item drop already pre programmed if you equip that item it lock the stats on the item but you could still change the item cosmeticlly. Like for the Helm of Honnileigh if i equip it the current stats are locked but i could always go to Wade and have it painted to match my armor color scheme, have the wings removed, but the stats are locked because i equiped the item in the field. I could also leave it in inventory and bring it to wade to remodel and stat it up according to the points i want to spend.

The key in this senario is that the base stats like dex for some bows and strength for armors are locked stats and can noy be changed, if a full face helm requires 32 strength to equip then even if you have Wade turn it into a tiara it still takes the 32 strength to equip. While i recognize that there would be a few bugs to work out of this system i feel that this is the best of both worlds. The player gets to create that certain look for thier party, and the developers do not have to waste time designing and statting items in the game aside from a few modifyiable base models and spend thier time making more quests and areas.

Really what i would like is an in game interface that allows me to create my own armors, in both stats and look. This would seem easier to do and less time consuming for the developers, allowing me to do the work which i would glady do provided the opportunity. Also it would be awesome if my creations were able to be shared with in the community. I know its called the tool set but i feel that using the tool set to do this is cheating in a way and it is some what difficult to do as well, at least for me anyway. 

 
Something to ponder
Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 02 décembre 2009 - 07:50 .

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

There's no pleasing some people

Dragon age is great, but there are obvious things that need improvement. Pointing them out isnt done because i dont like the game, but rather the opposite. If you are so simple minded that you are overjoyed and happy about anything you experience then good for you. But some of us actually forward criticism, and we dont do this to hurt - but to help. Though i may have expressed my personal concerns extremely bluntly, i feel a "Sten approach" can be good sometimes.

[Lucy Glitter]

If you can do better, OP. Go ahead and mod it is. I really doubt BW is going to go, "OH MY GOD SHE IS RIGHT! WE MUST MAKE THESE CHANGES IMMEDIATELY" and run away and do everything you advise. 

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 03 décembre 2009 - 03:53 .

[TheMav80]

It's not about having super awesome bad loot of win every other encounter. It could be just a regular magic weapon or just a plain weapon...but with a different style. Same goes for armour.



The story is great, but if what you are looking at doesn't match the story, then things can break down. When I have a guy make me some drake scale armour, I'd like it to look a little more different than just a slightly more reddish leather armour I've been wearing all game. Tier 1 Leather armour should look different than tier 6, magical or not.

[Kolaris8472]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

If you can do better, OP. Go ahead and mod it is. I really doubt BW is going to go, "OH MY GOD SHE IS RIGHT! WE MUST MAKE THESE CHANGES IMMEDIATELY" and run away and do everything you advise. 

You're right, whether BioWare wants to make their game better is entirely up to them

[Malificis]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Short version: Replace your modeling team. Othervice great game.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Long version:

1) Lack of models. For example in the fade, the sloth demon uses an arcane horror model and the same does your spirit form. Many other places mobs are just given what seems to be generic models. The darkspawn generals in the end of the game were given what seems to be completely normal models just with "boss names"

Also the blight has genlocks, hurlocks, emisarries, ogres and shrieks. Though barely enough to make the blight a unique "faction" there should be atleast 2-3 more special models/enemies included for greater variety.

I feel the models in this game lacking alot, and though i hate myself for asking you this after you made such a great game. Ill have to ask - "Were your modelers lazy, or was there an insane time restraint?"

2) Warriors have it decent, because there are a good degree of helmets in the game. But what about mages and rogues? Why do my powerfull maleficar have to be mortalized by having to show his average and boring face? Why do my mysterious rogue have to show his bland and dull face instead of having a dark and sinister hood?

There are no masks in this game, and no hoods - at all. And the hats are not only limited but very ugly.

3) There are a serious lack of weapon models in this game. Staves look bland and boring and are mostly sticks. And the rest of the weapons seriously lacks diversity.

"Hey look at me, a powerfull maleficar in my clown suit and my wooden stick.... tremble and desp.. hey why are you all laughing?" Guess thats one way to kill the blight, make them laught to death at your pathetic character.

Yet again the warrior types get the better here, they atleast have some good looking armors. If you want a mage to look ok in this game you have 2 options, go around naked or become an arcane warrior.

4) Villains are lacking. Loghain is a good villain, and you gotta hate Howe. But when the player hates a "Side villain" more than the last boss its kinda sad. You dont really WANT to kill the archdemon as much as you have to and none of the other blight creatures has any personality. You couldve atleast made a single blighted creature that you would learn to hate or add one more character somewhere else to oppose you. There is also the matter of difficulty, when youve learned the game it becomes to easy even on nightmare. You have 1 "secret boss" in the game but it wouldnt hurt to add maybe atleast 1 more "secret uber boss" for even the most hardcore players, optional and backed up by a real good story.

*Story writing in this game is great
*Replayability is great, the many different paths and options to take is wonderfull.
*Companion voiceactings and story/personalities are extremely good also.
*Villains is lacking abit, as written above.
*Landscape is fairly good considering you are forced to limit it because of consoles.
*NPCs are generally well made and their personalities are supported by good voice acting aswell. Though Jowans voiceactor should practice abit since everytime i heared his voice other than from jowan i could immediatly say "Hey, isnt that jowan?"
* Models are horrible and lacking, though props and areas are well made gear and weapons is NOT. . If i had a genie in a bottle id make my first wish "Fire the dragon age member (Cant be more than one considering the quality) that made the weapons and gear models and did the horrble crime of forgetting hoods and masks and the like completely"

A question that has been bothering me alot is the following: If you absolutely have to make so little armor and weapons, and completely neglect hoods, masks and hats. Why not hire some people with a past in modding and add to your team? As with many other RPGs with toolsets - modders make better looking armors, weapons and headgear then developers do. So again, why not just find and hire these people to begin with instead of letting a person with alzheimer (yes, still furious about you forgetting hoods, masks and limit hats to 3 ugly models) do the job in some halfassed manner?

May seem abit like bashing here, but make no mistake i love the game and its worth the money 50 times over. However,  honest criticism is important if one want things to improve.

Indeed i think most including myself agree with you to a point on models.

However I can't agree with you on villains. It was done as it should be - the archdemon is presented as it is to make the point that humans can be far more evil than what are naturally the forces of chaos for purely chaotic reasons.
The darkspawn and the archdemon seem to be the forces opposite to creation, almost as if they maintain a balance.
Loghain and Howe in particular are shown as those who are not made to be so, but would be benefit as much as possible from the misfortune of others even as they stand the risk of causing the destruction of the world. they are capable of KNOWING what they do, fully and utterly, and had a choice. Darkspawn seem to be more of a force of nature which has no choice as to what it does.

tldr; Who Knows What Evil Lurks in the Heart of Men? + The real moral is that it that the hardest thing about fighting the worlds enemies is to get everyone to band together.

[Eonassassin]

I agree with this completely, when I first started the game and I was in my piece of **** mage robes I didn't mind. Obviously I was a level 1 guy so I didn't want anything extravagant, but as I progressed through the game I noticed Alistair was the only mo***fu**** who was looking cooler and cool with each upgrade.
I was still wearing my crappy ass robes no helm and a ****ty staff which I hardly used. I got sick of my sidekick looking cooler than me and I was forced into becoming an Arcane Warrior even though I wanted to become a blood mage (which I hadn't unlocked so it didn't matter i suppose)
I still had my hopes high though, hoping that by the time I went and killed the archdemon all my partymembers would look cool.... but that never happened morrigan was in some ****ty robes that I bought and same for Wynne, I was wearing some cappy chainmail and Alistair was in the craftable dragonbone (he was the only one with a helmet since it didn't look ridic)

I mean even king cailen and duncan had cool looking armors and those guys died....

Modifié par Eonassassin, 03 décembre 2009 - 06:21 .

[am_victory]

While I agree with some of your points - cooler looking armor and helms and such would be nice, and the fact that the darkspawn enemy didn't really get the blood pumping, I agree with Bibdy that calling the developers lazy is a bit much. Firstly, you don't just "hire" an extra person like pulling someone in off the streets. At MINIMUM that's another $30k to the project budget (1 person for year). Now, if you want to take the other guy's word and say everyone in the industry makes $80k*, you can just ratchet that number up.



* This is false. Just because the people you know make 80k a year doesn't mean that everyone does. Much like every other job, it depends on the person's experience and the location and size of the company they're working for. Salaries start at $20kish and go on up from there. Someone making $80k a year is pretty high up the food chain and they probably work for a large company, to boot.

[Emryc]

I want every Darkspawn to look different. Even though they're a horde, they're all individuals! Also, I want every piece of clothing to be different, I want to see the clothing rip and tear. Same goes for armour.



Basically I want a game so real that there's no need for suspension of disbelief!

[Jab0r]

Firstly, you don't just "hire" an extra person like pulling someone in off the streets. At MINIMUM that's another $30k to the project budget (1 person for year).

Let's not forget Brooks' Law:
Adding people to a late project makes it even later.
While talking specifically about late projects, it applies to any blind application of manpower in the hopes of getting better results.

Modifié par Jab0r, 03 décembre 2009 - 07:44 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

The only complaints I have with armors is that the plate sets all have too big shoulderpads...and why are ALL asymetric? WTF???



And mage hats. A few better looking ones would be nice. Robes are pretty much OK.



Scale of some weapons needs some fixing, and I'd completely re-do the material system (8 different materials used in a same time period? SERIOUSLY???)

[Kerilus]

Very true about the points on villians. Loghain is quite decent, who is cunning and hated enough but not without reasons for his deeds. But the Blight is just too mindless. There is absolutly no character added in the whole Blight faction. Even the lore says the archdemon is supposed to be extremely intelligent, you see no signs of that in the game. Also, henlock emissaries are supposed to be able to talk, and I expected to be able to at least converse with one or two of them in order to know their agenda and their degree of intelligence, yet there is no such chance. Not even a single individual among the Blight does that. And yes, I know they are supposed to share a group-mind, but the alpha commanders and emissaries are supposed to be intelligent enough to have individual thoughts, no?So there it is, the one single matter that disappoints me about the game. However, this is the "Origin" of the series, no?Many great series of stories start with the existence of a clear and unquestonable pure evil force that is latter discovered to be more complicated.

Modifié par Kerilus, 03 décembre 2009 - 07:55 .