102 réponses à ce sujet

[Genraku]

Behindyounow wrote...


Bruce's law: A Hero is only as good* as his villain.

A flying monster that doesn't even say two words is in no way a compelling villain. If there was an intelligent darkspawn like the Architect behind it all though, it would've been better.

*Good as in awesome, not the 'good and evil' variety.

It was stated that both the Archdemon and the emmisarries are intelligent, and capeble of speech. I think that's a missed opportunity to flesh out  either individual darkspawn as intermediary enemies, or the archdemon himself.
Alistair says that some grey wardens can even understand the archdemon, I think something like that happening to the pc might be an opportunity to establish this intelligence. Thoguh that sasid,  it'd be itnersting  to see how one works out witty banter between a grey warden and the corrupted soul of an old god..

[am_victory]

blaalindorm wrote...

If Qunari mean limited models, then ditch Qunari race.

He didn't say Qunari limited models, or at least not by themselves.  Following your logic, they need to only have human males anywhere in the game.

[Kerilus]

Walina wrote...

The story is well written but the main plot is plain.
I would've loved an ending where you see the REAL boss (not the lazy archidemn which just show up at the end of the game like Loghain) who will smirk at you, saying "I've what I want the most, thank you grey warden". So you just wanna who is that guy and beat him to the pult *_*

In this case, wouldn't you think Morrigan is the "REAL boss"...?
She got her baby, and quite obviously her power exceeds the Archdemon(as any mage)
Anyway, it is true that the main plot is rather plain, which I believe is done on purpose.

[TuringPoint]

Alistair doesn't say, "Some grey wardens can even understand what the Archdemon says." He said, "Some of the OLDER grey wardens can even understand the Archdemon." You are definitely a younger Grey Warden.

Most Emissaries, it has been stated within lore, are capable of speech, but they aren't known to say much to human beings.

I do agree that the plot was made plain on purpose.  In this way the hero's drama is more in what they do for success as a hero than that they succeed, which I personally find far more interesting and more mature.  I think that in the future they could do more with that, and the reason I respect this game so much is because it shows everyone that "Drama" is possible in a video game.

Modifié par Alocormin, 03 décembre 2009 - 03:23 .

[Genraku]

I just feel its a missed opportunity to explore the intelligence of both the archdemon and emissaries who are supposed to be a cut above the rest of the horde in intelligence. They were already using forms of psychological warfare before, hanging mutilated soldiers, executing prisoners in front of their comrades, etc. Now granted I'm not expecting the archdemon to challenge you to a game of chess, but having some way to show an outward sign of intelligence or cunning would add a level of depth to the archdemon that we aren't getting from banter.

I just feel there's more that can be done than simply have the Archdemon as extra artillery for the horde.

[Kerilus]

And that is why I believe sequels will be better.

Some of you argues that Blight is like a zombie catastrophe, which you cannot reason with and will only kill you no matter what. However, that does not necessarily mean the Blight should show no brillance other than slauthering and plundering. The high intelligence of the Archdemon and certain individual such as henlock emissaries and alpha commanders should be able to scheme or even manipulate their victims in different rates.

[Kerilus]

Also, the lack of intelligence in the execution of the Blight is not quite as much a concern to me as the why of it. I do truly want to gain some insight from the more intelligent darkspawns about their mentality, their perception of their actions and maybe the Blight itself, etc.

Am I going too far? Anyone share my curiosity?

Modifié par Kerilus, 03 décembre 2009 - 04:03 .

[tmp7704]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Also the blight has genlocks, hurlocks, emisarries, ogres and shrieks. Though barely enough to make the blight a unique "faction" there should be atleast 2-3 more special models/enemies included for greater variety.

The enemy types come from corrupted 'good' races -- humans, elves, dwarves and qunari (emissaries are mages) It doesn't exactly make much sense to strive for more variety when it breaks their own lore in the process.

"Hey look at me, a powerfull maleficar in my clown suit and my wooden stick.... tremble and desp.. hey why are you all laughing?" Guess thats one way to kill the blight, make them laught to death at your pathetic character.

Someone didn't learn their lesson from the Harrowing, about appearances being deceptive

Modifié par tmp7704, 03 décembre 2009 - 04:04 .

[Seraphael]

Bibdy wrote...

I suggest taking up a career in 3D modeling. You're obviously very passionate about it and since feel that their modelers were clearly lazy, you must be able to do a much better job and able to pump out equally detailed character and object models in no time flat! You'll be a hero of the industry.

What a foolish comment to make! Here the OP makes some reasonable constructive criticism and you leap to the defense of Bioware like some sort of a mindless drone.

Take a look at the body posture of male elves, it looks like they're about to fall flat on their asses leaning backwards the way they do. Take a look at their freakishly huge hands...guess they had to make 'em that size to be able to grasp the gargantuan oversized weapons in this game. I'd wager more races and females too also share similar issues. One should be able to expect the 3D modellers getting basic things as this right at the very least.

It's the same story every time with non-helmet headgear. Sing in the clowns! It seems Bioware definitely does not listen to the well founded criticism of their customers in this regard. I've read countless threads complaining about this issue alone in the past.

Dragon Age is a fairly good game, but it has some glaring flaws which detracts from the experience and I expect better from Bioware.

Modifié par Seraphael, 03 décembre 2009 - 04:30 .

[am_victory]

Kerilus wrote...

Also, the lack of intelligence in the execution of the Blight is not quite as much a concern to me as the why of it. I do truly want to gain some insight from the more intelligent darkspawns about their mentality, their perception of their actions and maybe the Blight itself, etc.

Am I going too far? Anyone share my curiosity?

No, I agree.  I think they laid the groundwork for it, too.

[am_victory]

Seraphael wrote...

Take a look at the body posture of male elves, it looks like they're about to fall flat on their asses leaning backwards the way they do. Take a look at their freakishly huge hands...guess they had to make 'em that size to be able to grasp the gargantuan oversized weapons in this game. I'd wager more races and females too also share similar issues. One should be able to expect the 3D modellers getting basic things as this right at the very least.

It's the same story every time with non-helmet headgear. Sing in the clowns! It seems Bioware definitely does not listen to the well founded criticism of their customers in this regard. I've read countless threads complaining about this issue alone in the past.

Dragon Age is a fairly good game, but it has some glaring flaws which detracts from the experience and I expect better from Bioware.

Glaring flaws?  I think you're exaggerating.   Same for your statement about the headgear looking like clown outfits.  Do I wish there were more variety?  Yes.  But what there is looks good, IMO.  As for the complaint about elves - honestly you come across as nitpicking.  None of the weapons were oversize with the exception of two-handers, and they're SUPPOSED to be big - that's why you need two hands to wield them.  As for freakishly huge hands - again, I think you're nitpicking and exaggerating.

[Kerilus]

am_victory wrote...

Kerilus wrote...

Also, the lack of intelligence in the execution of the Blight is not quite as much a concern to me as the why of it. I do truly want to gain some insight from the more intelligent darkspawns about their mentality, their perception of their actions and maybe the Blight itself, etc.

Am I going too far? Anyone share my curiosity?

No, I agree.  I think they laid the groundwork for it, too.

How so?

Modifié par Kerilus, 03 décembre 2009 - 04:49 .

[am_victory]

Well, if you look at the lore (just in-game - not even touching on stuff in The Calling), there's the accepted Chantry explanation for the Blights and Darkspawn (doubtful that's true - at least not 100%), then there's the fact that there's a limited number of Blights even possible - what then? Also, the fact that older wardens can sometimes understand the Archdemons - all of that hints at a bigger picture. I could definitely see them exploring that more in future.

[Seraphael]

am_victory wrote...

Seraphael wrote...

Take a look at the body posture of male elves, it looks like they're about to fall flat on their asses leaning backwards the way they do. Take a look at their freakishly huge hands...guess they had to make 'em that size to be able to grasp the gargantuan oversized weapons in this game. I'd wager more races and females too also share similar issues. One should be able to expect the 3D modellers getting basic things as this right at the very least.

It's the same story every time with non-helmet headgear. Sing in the clowns! It seems Bioware definitely does not listen to the well founded criticism of their customers in this regard. I've read countless threads complaining about this issue alone in the past.

Dragon Age is a fairly good game, but it has some glaring flaws which detracts from the experience and I expect better from Bioware.

Glaring flaws?  I think you're exaggerating.   Same for your statement about the headgear looking like clown outfits.  Do I wish there were more variety?  Yes.  But what there is looks good, IMO.  As for the complaint about elves - honestly you come across as nitpicking.  None of the weapons were oversize with the exception of two-handers, and they're SUPPOSED to be big - that's why you need two hands to wield them.  As for freakishly huge hands - again, I think you're nitpicking and exaggerating.

You like looking like a conehead then I assume? There are tons of people who dosen't like the pointy hat wizard stereotype y'know. Seems like that is all Bioware does for Mages despite massive feedback on the issue from previous games.

Daggers looks like broadswords, longswords looks like massive two-handers. On my elf, a longsword stretches well over the top of the head and reaches the knees. Two-handed swords are indeed supposed to be large, but the width they have in this game would've made them totally unwieldy. None of the weapons oversized? Are you kidding me?

The hands are oversized, moreover, the too long arms, the stretched out and spread out fingers make the hands seem very awkward indeed.

These and the unnatural body posture might be non-issues to you, but to me and others (just research some of the threads on the subject) they are glaring and obvious. It's not a big deal, just an unnecessary detraction from my game enjoyment.

Modifié par Seraphael, 03 décembre 2009 - 06:24 .

[am_victory]

Huh. Honestly, I haven't even paid that much attention to the weapon sizes and the arms / hands. In fairness, depending on what you're into, you might attach more importance to things like that. I used to do graphics design and I still look very critically at business cards, fonts, layouts, etc. - my eye's just drawn to that. So artists would probably pay more attention to proportion. As for the mage's headwear - they don't look like standard witch's hats to me (wide brim, pointy top that stands straight up) but more like a scarf or some such wrapped around the head. Not a turban, but a cowl. Anyway, to each his own

[MandatoryDenial1]

I am constantly amazed at the people who seem to have nothing better to do than tear down people who offer genuine good natured criticism aimed at making a better game. I think your point about the dragon being the end "baddie" is a really good one. In Baldur's Gate, the story wasted no time in reinforcing that sarevok was the villan. Baldur's Gate 2 made me hate Jon Irenicus with an absolute passion before I actually met him in the elven tree. I think your very right that this game is missing reminders of whom the enemy truely is.



In Baldur's Gate 2, the antagonists went after your love interest if memory serves. In this game your friends aren't attacked, you are. I think it would have been much better if Bioware made the blight attack the player's support structure much more than it did. If it had I think your complaint would have been addressed and we would have had a villan that seemed to know about our presence. In this game the villan didn't really seem like it cared that the agents of its destruction, the Grey Wardens, were there.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Baldur's Gate 2 made me hate Jon Irenicus with an absolute passion before I actually met him in the elven tree. I think your very right that this game is missing reminders of whom the enemy truely is.

This is also why games like FF7 were fantastic, they made you TRULY get emotional and made you HATE the villains.

*FF7 SPOILERS, NWN1+2 SPOILERS*

When sephiroth killed aeris, one of the most memorable scenes in video games. Things like this is what we need...

Imagine if the archdemon was scripted to kill the one you romance like alistair or leliana and you had them die in your arms. Just his would make you hate the main villain so much more. Even if it was a mindless dragon.

Also you should be able to converse with the archdemon in the end, even join him in an own ending. Remember NWN:Hordes of the underdark when you could join mephistopholes? And NWN2 when you can join the king of shadows?

The " im gonna go crack this dragons skull to save the world... k done" is the most boring, clichè and unpersonal
 end game meeting with a boss possible.

Still bear in mind that i think dragon age is a fantastic game, but these ... weird mistakes seems so out of place comming from bioware

@Brian: I understand it must be a nightmare when you have to make a model for multiple races and gender and so on. But there is an extreme lack of variety in good looking gear be it low magic or high magic and especially for mages and rogues. I know i cant truly judge modelers for it when i dont possess the skills myself, but when modders appear to do it better and faster than devs themselves you have to start wondering who you hire for those jobs. (Im hoping youre not one of them? Id feel like an **** then But i hope you understand my perspective as a gamer)

Modifié par SomeoneStoleMyName, 04 décembre 2009 - 01:10 .

[Ulicus]

I agree with the general criticism regarding the darkspawn and the archdemon as antagonists, as I've said elsewhere. Still, there's been plenty of codex/conversation/novel groundwork laid for both darkspawn and Archdemons to be more compelling villains in the sequels.



As things stand, my current rationale as to why the PC doesn't get to have a conversation with the Archdemon is along the lines of: "The Archdemon is so intelligent as to be utterly incomprehensible to him, at least while his own taint is so fresh". The fact that Alistair makes mention of "some of the older Grey Wardens" saying they can "understand" the Archdemon gives me hope that, in a future game, we will indeed get to have the conversation a lot of us wanted.



Though I'm still hoping to encounter some talking darkspawn in some DLC, at least.

[slackbheep]

Sure the game could have benefited from having a more diverse set of models, (and perhaps a little less of "Jowan" voicing every other guard/blackstone/ect) I don't think it takes anything away from the game. Perhaps some more variation in leathers and robes but honestly I prefer the "realistic" armor designs employed for DA:O. More variation would be good, but I'd be rolling my eyes if rogues and mages started to look like their WoW counterparts.

[Wildhide]

Ulicus wrote...

I agree with the general criticism regarding the darkspawn and the archdemon as antagonists, as I've said elsewhere. Still, there's been plenty of codex/conversation/novel groundwork laid for both darkspawn and Archdemons to be more compelling villains in the sequels.

As things stand, my current rationale as to why the PC doesn't get to have a conversation with the Archdemon is along the lines of: "The Archdemon is so intelligent as to be utterly incomprehensible to him, at least while his own taint is so fresh". The fact that Alistair makes mention of "some of the older Grey Wardens" saying they can "understand" the Archdemon gives me hope that, in a future game, we will indeed get to have the conversation a lot of us wanted.

Though I'm still hoping to encounter some talking darkspawn in some DLC, at least.

To me Loghain and Arl Howe WERE the primary villians, the Darkspawn threat and the Blight were just McGuffins to drive the story.  A lot of times that type of plot device winds up not even being resolved in books and stories, it was just there to start things.  Bioware decided to keep them present in the game to drive the character onward and to urgency when dealing with Loghain et al, and they actually let you face down and stop the McGuffin at the end.

[blackwolf1981]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Baldur's Gate 2 made me hate Jon Irenicus with an absolute passion before I actually met him in the elven tree. I think your very right that this game is missing reminders of whom the enemy truely is.

This is also why games like FF7 were fantastic, they made you TRULY get emotional and made you HATE the villains.

*FF7 SPOILERS, NWN1+2 SPOILERS*

When sephiroth killed aeris, one of the most memorable scenes in video games. Things like this is what we need...

Imagine if the archdemon was scripted to kill the one you romance like alistair or leliana and you had them die in your arms. Just his would make you hate the main villain so much more. Even if it was a mindless dragon.

Also you should be able to converse with the archdemon in the end, even join him in an own ending. Remember NWN:Hordes of the underdark when you could join mephistopholes? And NWN2 when you can join the king of shadows?

The " im gonna go crack this dragons skull to save the world... k done" is the most boring, clichè and unpersonal
 end game meeting with a boss possible.

Still bear in mind that i think dragon age is a fantastic game, but these ... weird mistakes seems so out of place comming from bioware

@Brian: I understand it must be a nightmare when you have to make a model for multiple races and gender and so on. But there is an extreme lack of variety in good looking gear be it low magic or high magic and especially for mages and rogues. I know i cant truly judge modelers for it when i dont possess the skills myself, but when modders appear to do it better and faster than devs themselves you have to start wondering who you hire for those jobs. (Im hoping youre not one of them? Id feel like an **** then But i hope you understand my perspective as a gamer)

Phantasy Star IV did a great job with that as well with the death of Alys.

To be completely honest, I could give a hang for RPG graphics...for chrissakes I used to go play Zork in the library lol. One thing I do wish for (and I realze how incredibly difficult this would be with voice acting for the entire game) is I'd like for the origin to come through a little more in quest dialog....as well as some different quests throughout the game.

Also, if I'm caught using blood magic(especially since it is so powerful), I should face some repurcussions.  For example, I used blood magic on Loghein twice in our duel....in front of every noble in Ferelden. No one so much as batted an eyelash.

[Lotion Soronarr]

am_victory wrote...
  None of the weapons were oversize with the exception of two-handers, and they're SUPPOSED to be big - that's why you need two hands to wield them.  As for freakishly huge hands - again, I think you're nitpicking and exaggerating.

Nope, both hands and weapons are too big. Mostly too thick. In some cases too big in all 3 dimensions.
One-handed axes are surprisingly accurate.
Pretty much everything else = too big. I can easily prove it too (being the medieval weponry freak that I am)

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]

When sephiroth killed aeris, one of the most memorable scenes in video games. Things like this is what we need...

[/quote ]



Must...resist...urge...to conduct exterminatus..on FF...and Aeris.

[Chragen]

I feel Bioware stepped away from what made say Baldurs Gate so special. You kinda lost that real sense of adventure and that this was a real journey in to the unknown.

And I agree on the bad guy part. Since in a sense there is no bad guy in Dragon Age, there is no real antagonist. It would have been great if they had made the Darkspawn more "active" There are no named Darkspawn, there's no one for you to focus on, it is just the generic unnamed masses of the blight and the unnamed Archdemon.

It would have been great if you had like a pack of powerful named darkspawn generals that actually torment you and get more aggressive the closer to you get to the end.

Kinda in the way Bodhi hunts you through out Baldurs Gate 2. It doesn't happen often but it adds so much since it gives you personal interaction with the antagonists.

Guess that is what I really miss. That personal feel to the story.

Modifié par Chragen, 04 décembre 2009 - 02:43 .

[menasure]

Alocormin wrote...

I'm amazed you people thought the Blight wasn't a serious threat. Do you typically think the zombies in zombie apocalypse stories are not all that threatening? Like maybe you could walk away and it'd be fine? I certainly didn't feel that way. I just hope I don't have to depend on you folks in the zombie apocalypse, lol.

About personality in the main villain. Does the villain really need to establish his favorite color before you kill him?

sure the blight is a threat but really how many times do you encounter those darkspawns in game? supposedly they ruin lothering but afterwards i am usually more afraid to encounter animals, robbers etc while travelling ... the darkspawn invasion seems to halt for some reason so the urgency of their threat is lost to me and basically i am dealing way more with the question of uniting Ferelden or other stuff in game because i know that the darkspawn will wait for me

as for personality i think Uldred was well done as villain just because of the clues you can find about him rather than a whole cinematic complex story involving hundreds of text lines so it does not require that much to give a villain some personality.

Modifié par menasure, 04 décembre 2009 - 03:10 .