Dear god, this is a lot of typing.
The Angry One wrote...
WizenSlinky0 wrote...
You're approaching this from the wrong direction. Even the Krogan after nuking their entire planet still survived in some manner. Almost nothing organics can do can entirely wipe out all organic life. Something will survive.
But Synthetics are not the same. They don't need the same things. They don't think the same way. Their approaches are entirely different from ours. They could glass an entire planet so that no organic life could ever survive there for eternity and STILL live on it.
That is the essential problem.
Again, I'm not saying the cycle is the best solution to the problem. But it is one logical (if cold and merciless) solution to the problem. And taking the Geth as "proof" it's a lie is terrible proof. It's a remarkabely small sample size in the face of galactic time.
That's not a problem at all. The Krogan can survive in enviroments like the Rachni homeworld that'd kill most other organics.
By your logic, the Krogan could exterminate all other organics because they don't need what we have.
The Geth are proof. For 3 centuries they have spat in the fact of everything the Catalyst says. They are pacifistic, they are altruistic, they bear little ill will to the Quarians even after all the crimes commited against them. They remember good deeds done for them and appreciate them forever.
The moment the Quarians stood down they were already helping to plan Quarian resettlement on Rannoch.
Sorry, you can't ignore them.
*sigh* But the Krogan are organic. They could exterminate all other higher level organics if they wanted. They'd still need some sort of organic life to produce food. But the point is ORGANICS WOULD STILL EXIST in some form.
The reapers are there to solve the problem of no organic life left in the galaxy ever again. They aren't concerned with how self destructed or how much organic life goes extinct so long as organic life in some way still survives.
3 centuries is a remarkabely small amount of time for a cycle that has gone on billions of years, wouldn't you say? I never took the starchilds words as saying anything had to be immediate or soon. They are thinking long term. You are thinking very short term because, well, that's how we're built. Our lives are short. We aren't worried about what happens a million years down the road. It's too far for us to contemplate.
It isn't for the reapers. They don't care if synthetics are peaceful for 1,000 years or 2,000 years or 1,000,000 years. They only care about what they see as the eventual elimination of organics by Synthetics. Who don't need organic life to survive.
The Geth are but one synthetic race of many in the past who may or may not be benevolent. It's not about whether the Geth can be peaceful. It's whether or not a synthetic race will eventually be created that will eliminate all organic life.
The Geth are not proof. They aren't even indicitive of a proper sample size.
iamthedave3 wrote...
Worked against the reapers, who are infinitely more advanced than the Geth.
Either
way, the Catalyst is presenting a logical fallacy. The idea that all
AI will turn on their creators and jump from that to exterminating all
organic life requires something: lack of free will.
For
ALL AI to make that decision, NO AI can have will of its own or a
personality of its own. Otherwise that simply would not happen. The
logic denies that AI have any unique qualities or the ability to
self-determinate - the things which actually separate an AI from a VI in
the first place.
It doesn't make sense.
In fact in the
Mass Effect canon, organics have glassed more planets than synthetics
have. Look up stuff on the Krogan and Batarians for plenty of evidence
on this.
Well, of course organics have glassed more planets. The reapers have pretty much stopped us from ever seeing a large flux of synthetic races or development. We're constantly set back to pre-space flight times. It's really impossible for us to inherently prove or disprove the actual assertion. But it is a logical conclusion. It may not be an ideal, or even acceptable conclusion...but it is a logical one.
Yes, the starchild says "all synthetic life will eventually"...which may or may not be true in the end. It's not a lie if he believes it, for one. He isn't lieing to you. For whatever reason whoever built the reapers came to this conclusion. So let's say for a moment that he IS wrong, it doesn't make sense. Just for giggles. Now how does that change anything at all? Pick the destroy ending. Villians often don't make sense to hero's. They are approaching problems from another direction. The reapers, AND the catalyst, are inherently the villians. So stop them. I think a lot of peoples problems is they are considering the catalyst as a friendly person. He's your enemy as much as the reapers.
But I still consider the possibility to be a logical conclusion including their solution, no matter how morbid and terrible a choice.
Onto the topic of AI free will...I don't see it as disputing that. The point is that even if they have free-will Synthetic life will still approach "thinking" on a general level in an entirely different way seperated from the concerns of organics. Because they need different things from us.
Sesshaku wrote...
That's pure speculation of yours[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie].
You realize that everything everyone here is doing is also pretty much speculation. Saying the Geth prove the catalyst is wrong, is speculation.
So why bother pointing out the obvious? We can't prove either side beyond a reasonable doubt because we don't have a proper sample size of synthetics.
Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 27 mars 2012 - 06:15 .
Retour en haut
That doesn't mean that they still didn't rebel. The Catalyst didn't seem to make any judgements about the synthetics, to me, when he said they'd wipe organics out. He didn't say it was unjustified every time. I just think the synthetics end up having the odds stacked in their favor.
