183 réponses à ce sujet

[dannymira]

In my opinion Shep and Kaidan dialogues are very nice and their friendship sounded true (in my run with a maleshep)...I always liked Kaidan...more than that ****ty **** of Ash...

[DashRunner92]

syllogi wrote...

Hans-Erik wrote...

syllogi wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Many guys are threatened by attractive male leads, simple. Let's not pretend it just happens to be a coincidence that virtually all human male leads in Bioware games are disliked/ridiculed, mostly by guys

 dingdingding!   We have a winner!

Even in early sections of the game, like on Mars, Raphael Sbarge's voice acting is superb.  If you're romancing Kaidan, it's even better.  The complaints about his voice, hair, personality, etc., are from people who would write him off no matter how great his performance is.

This is the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time.  It reminds me when I told some people I didn't like Adele's music, and they said "Why, because she's fat?"

Except that everything is not subjective, believe it or not.  Even if you don't like Adele's music, saying her voice sucks would be disingenuous.  Objectively, compared to most singing voices, of most people, her voice is better.  You may prefer another genre of music, but that does not change the fact that her voice is appealing to many people.

Similarly, Kaidan obviously does not appeal to many people. and they might have legitimate issues with him or Ashley after Horizon, but that does not negate the fact that Raphael Sbarge is a good voice actor, enjoyed by many fans.

Opinions do not equal facts, is all I'm saying.

Actually it is completely subjective. Someone who doesn't like Adele's music, will find that her voice sucks and vice versa. It's actually because listening to music releases dopamine into our system. The better we find a type of music or singer to be = the more dopamine. It's the same reason why biologically as we grow older, we tend not to enjoy newer generations of music. It's also the same reason as we grow older, that activities like cleaning becomes less of a boring chore as compared to doing something exciting. 

[leimana]

I think all the voice acting is/was amazing. Some of the characters I did not like (Ashley, Miranda, etc..) but all of the VA was done really well.

[afie]

I love kaidan and i quite like his voice, i think the VA does a good job.

[Ariq007]

afie wrote...

I love kaidan and i quite like his voice, i think the VA does a good job.

[DoctorEss]

syllogi wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Many guys are threatened by attractive male leads, simple. Let's not pretend it just happens to be a coincidence that virtually all human male leads in Bioware games are disliked/ridiculed, mostly by guys

 dingdingding!   We have a winner!

Even in early sections of the game, like on Mars, Raphael Sbarge's voice acting is superb.  If you're romancing Kaidan, it's even better.  The complaints about his voice, hair, personality, etc., are from people who would write him off no matter how great his performance is.

Dongdongdong!  We have a loser!

Explain why my wife hates Carth, and hates Kaidan.  I'll be waiting.  

[Edrick1976]

I think he is perfict in character, I dont think the problem is the voice actor if you dont like their work I think it might have something to do with the writing on the kind of character he is playing and whoever directed his work.

Personlay I think he is a great actor I love him on the Show "Once apon a time"

Modifié par Edington, 27 mars 2012 - 08:18 .

[syllogi]

DashRunner92 wrote...

syllogi wrote...

Hans-Erik wrote...

syllogi wrote...

Even in early sections of the game, like on Mars, Raphael Sbarge's voice acting is superb.  If you're romancing Kaidan, it's even better.  The complaints about his voice, hair, personality, etc., are from people who would write him off no matter how great his performance is.

This is the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time.  It reminds me when I told some people I didn't like Adele's music, and they said "Why, because she's fat?"

Except that everything is not subjective, believe it or not.  Even if you don't like Adele's music, saying her voice sucks would be disingenuous.  Objectively, compared to most singing voices, of most people, her voice is better.  You may prefer another genre of music, but that does not change the fact that her voice is appealing to many people.

Similarly, Kaidan obviously does not appeal to many people. and they might have legitimate issues with him or Ashley after Horizon, but that does not negate the fact that Raphael Sbarge is a good voice actor, enjoyed by many fans.

Opinions do not equal facts, is all I'm saying.

Actually it is completely subjective. Someone who doesn't like Adele's music, will find that her voice sucks and vice versa. It's actually because listening to music releases dopamine into our system. The better we find a type of music or singer to be = the more dopamine. It's the same reason why biologically as we grow older, we tend not to enjoy newer generations of music. It's also the same reason as we grow older, that activities like cleaning becomes less of a boring chore as compared to doing something exciting. 

Liking something is subjective, but some things are objectively better than others.  Everything has an agreed upon value in a society.  I may prefer another genre, but again, just because Adele isn't my cup of tea, it would be silly of me to claim that her voice is terrible because I'm conditioned to like other things.  As a society, we have agreed to value some singing voices over others.  I'm a horrible singer, objectively, no matter what genre of music I try to sing.  I'm not going to claim that my voice is equal to Adele's because I don't like her pop/soul/r&b style.   

So, because I see some people getting prickly over my post, I'll reiterate; you're entitled to your opinion, but the OP and many "haters" claim that certain characters like Kaidan and Alistair are objectively bad, bland, whiny, etc.  That's not a fact, no matter how much you hate them.

[BloodClaw95]

He had a crappy childhood too, he doesn't want to whine about it but you can sort of push him to talk about it in ME1.

Needless to say, he's been through alot. Most of the characters sort of mature and mellow out from ME1-ME3. Tali is a great example.

[yoshibb]

DashRunner92 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

DashRunner92 wrote...

Male shep, Garrus, Wrex, Joker, Mordin, Sten, Fenris, Alistar, Varric, Sebastian are all generally liked? All in all, it's completely subjective.

mShep is a player character. I know, shocking info. Garrus, Wrex, Mordin, Varric, Sten all ain't attractive human male leads. Joker ain't a lead, he's a comic relief for most of the trilogy. Alistair and Sebastian are the most liked out of all attractive male leads in BW games, but they STILL get quite a bit of crap from guys. So no, let's not pretend.

Again, completely subjective. Just because you don't think Garrus, Wrex, Mordin, Varric, Sten aren't attractive, doesn't mean other people don't. Especially Garrus, Wrex, and Sten. Go look up rule 34, it's fine, I can wait. Joker is defintely a lead character, seeing how he's essential to the plot, the only other character we've ever played as other than Shepard, and has more dialogue that the majority of characters, especially seeing how he is one of the few characters in all three games. Sandal from DA is an example of a character mainly for comic relief. Joker may be used to lighten the mood, but he's got plenty of problems of his own. Ya know, seeing how he pretty much has glass bones. That's pretty depressing, so comedy is a good defense. Mshep is the playable character, which means he's the one you're going to be looking at and listening to the most. Shocking, I know, right? 

Did you miss the word human? Members of different species do not apply.

And I'm curious, Kaidan mentioned his headaches once, now how many times did Wrex mention the genophage? How many times did he complain about turians and salarians? Did he not spend the whole first game moping about how his people were dying and yet at the time he was doing nothing but complaining about it. He actually pulls a gun on you at one point. But everyone loved Wrex in the first game because he wasn't human. Cause it's difficult to compare and measure yourself to a talking dinosaur.

And no, you can't use MaleShep. MaleShep is your character. He is an offshoot of yourself. He is whatever you want him to be. He has no specific character, only a voice and the goal of killing the reapers. 

[syllogi]

DoctorEss wrote...

Explain why my wife hates Carth, and hates Kaidan.  I'll be waiting.  

See the rest of my posts in this thread.  For the record, I don't care for Carth Onasi, but it has nothing to do with his voice.

[RogueBot]

DoctorEss wrote...

syllogi wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Many guys are threatened by attractive male leads, simple. Let's not pretend it just happens to be a coincidence that virtually all human male leads in Bioware games are disliked/ridiculed, mostly by guys

 dingdingding!   We have a winner!

Even in early sections of the game, like on Mars, Raphael Sbarge's voice acting is superb.  If you're romancing Kaidan, it's even better.  The complaints about his voice, hair, personality, etc., are from people who would write him off no matter how great his performance is.

Dongdongdong!  We have a loser!

Explain why my wife hates Carth, and hates Kaidan.  I'll be waiting.  

I'll give it a shot: His voice is unpleasantly familiar and brings back traumatic childhood memories? Or, she's intimidated by handsome men? (That actually happens to some women.)

I'm just messing with ya. I like Kaidan but I can see why some might not.

[txmn1016]

Nope, he's awesome.

[DoctorEss]

syllogi wrote...

DashRunner92 wrote...

syllogi wrote...

Hans-Erik wrote...

syllogi wrote...

Even in early sections of the game, like on Mars, Raphael Sbarge's voice acting is superb.  If you're romancing Kaidan, it's even better.  The complaints about his voice, hair, personality, etc., are from people who would write him off no matter how great his performance is.

This is the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time.  It reminds me when I told some people I didn't like Adele's music, and they said "Why, because she's fat?"

Except that everything is not subjective, believe it or not.  Even if you don't like Adele's music, saying her voice sucks would be disingenuous.  Objectively, compared to most singing voices, of most people, her voice is better.  You may prefer another genre of music, but that does not change the fact that her voice is appealing to many people.

Similarly, Kaidan obviously does not appeal to many people. and they might have legitimate issues with him or Ashley after Horizon, but that does not negate the fact that Raphael Sbarge is a good voice actor, enjoyed by many fans.

Opinions do not equal facts, is all I'm saying.

Actually it is completely subjective. Someone who doesn't like Adele's music, will find that her voice sucks and vice versa. It's actually because listening to music releases dopamine into our system. The better we find a type of music or singer to be = the more dopamine. It's the same reason why biologically as we grow older, we tend not to enjoy newer generations of music. It's also the same reason as we grow older, that activities like cleaning becomes less of a boring chore as compared to doing something exciting. 

Liking something is subjective, but some things are objectively better than others.  Everything has an agreed upon value in a society.  I may prefer another genre, but again, just because Adele isn't my cup of tea, it would be silly of me to claim that her voice is terrible because I'm conditioned to like other things.  As a society, we have agreed to value some singing voices over others.  I'm a horrible singer, objectively, no matter what genre of music I try to sing.  I'm not going to claim that my voice is equal to Adele's because I don't like her pop/soul/r&b style.   

So, because I see some people getting prickly over my post, I'll reiterate; you're entitled to your opinion, but the OP and many "haters" claim that certain characters like Kaidan and Alistair are objectively bad, bland, whiny, etc.  That's not a fact, no matter how much you hate them.

Thing is, it doesn't make Kaidan and Ashley GOOD, either, just because you like them.  

[DoctorEss]

syllogi wrote...

DoctorEss wrote...

Explain why my wife hates Carth, and hates Kaidan.  I'll be waiting.  

See the rest of my posts in this thread.  For the record, I don't care for Carth Onasi, but it has nothing to do with his voice.

She specifically hates the voice.  Whenever I'm (re)playing ME1, she's continually asking if I've gotten to the point where he gets killed off yet.  She can't stand listening to him speak.  Same as me.

But I'm sure you think I'm just "threatened" by a "handsome male", right?

[saracen16]

JerusPI wrote...

I was listening to Kaidens voice acting in ME3 and it got me to thinking. {mostly about when the new season of dexter starts] His voice is so dull and lifeless. I began to think that Raphael Sbarge was a terrible voice actor. But then I got to thinking. What if Raphael understands Kaidens character. Virmire, Horizon, and Mars. Kaidens watched his life be chosen over a woman with three sisters. He's watched as he failed to save the Colony he was trying to protect. He's watched Shepard die only to be brought back to life by Cerberus a terrorist organization, he's watched his hometown fall to the reapers, and then he got pummeled near to death by Eva Core. Maybe he's just tired of life. Maybe the lifelessness in his voice is like Garrus comment on Palavens moon "How long till the fight is kicked out of you" Maybe Kaiden's just permanently broken and thats why he sounds the way he does. In that case Raphael's an amazing V.A. So weigh in on the issue.

I like the way you approached it, and in fact, I thought something similar: I really felt that he didn't seem to have anything to live for. His usual calm, collected, politically savvy demeanor gave way to one that is more vulnerable and broken. He does seem to collect himself at points, especially where he talks to Tali on the Geth Dreadnought, Liara on Thessia (about anger keeping him going, and avenging Asari)... Yeah, he's broken down.

[Sal86]

saracen16 wrote...

JerusPI wrote...

I was listening to Kaidens voice acting in ME3 and it got me to thinking. {mostly about when the new season of dexter starts] His voice is so dull and lifeless. I began to think that Raphael Sbarge was a terrible voice actor. But then I got to thinking. What if Raphael understands Kaidens character. Virmire, Horizon, and Mars. Kaidens watched his life be chosen over a woman with three sisters. He's watched as he failed to save the Colony he was trying to protect. He's watched Shepard die only to be brought back to life by Cerberus a terrorist organization, he's watched his hometown fall to the reapers, and then he got pummeled near to death by Eva Core. Maybe he's just tired of life. Maybe the lifelessness in his voice is like Garrus comment on Palavens moon "How long till the fight is kicked out of you" Maybe Kaiden's just permanently broken and thats why he sounds the way he does. In that case Raphael's an amazing V.A. So weigh in on the issue.

I like the way you approached it, and in fact, I thought something similar: I really felt that he didn't seem to have anything to live for. His usual calm, collected, politically savvy demeanor gave way to one that is more vulnerable and broken. He does seem to collect himself at points, especially where he talks to Tali on the Geth Dreadnought, Liara on Thessia (about anger keeping him going, and avenging Asari)... Yeah, he's broken down.

You know, that does make sense when you put it like that.

"I can't lose you again."  - Wtb closure

[yoshibb]

Logan Cloud wrote...

syllogi wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Many guys are threatened by attractive male leads, simple. Let's not pretend it just happens to be a coincidence that virtually all human male leads in Bioware games are disliked/ridiculed, mostly by guys

 dingdingding!   We have a winner!

Even in early sections of the game, like on Mars, Raphael Sbarge's voice acting is superb.  If you're romancing Kaidan, it's even better.  The complaints about his voice, hair, personality, etc., are from people who would write him off no matter how great his performance is.

That's your opinion. You can't prove that his acting is superb. Many of us think he's just plain awful, me included.

No one is threatened by Alenko. We ridicule him because we honestly just hate him. Besides, I wouldn't say Alenko is a lead anyway. Garrus is more popular than Kaidan by a long shot. He actually has a personality. He has a great voice actor.

Moral of story: Be threatened by Garrus.
(Oh, and stop digging for things that don't exist. Maybe we just think Kaidan sucks.)

Maybe we'd just like a legitimate reason why Kaidan sucks and why his 'whinyness' is worse than anyone else's? 

God that Garrus is such a whiner though! "I'm so tired of Csec and their red tape! My father is always judging me! I lost this guy years ago on a case and I've held a grudge ever since! I was betrayed by Sidonis and I want revenge! My whole team was wiped out! Stop telling me what to do Shepard, I want to shoot him! My homeworld is being attacked and my birthplace is burning! I don't know where my sister and father are!'

I see a lot of legitimate reasons to be upset but it seems like Garrus does a lot more complaining than Kaidan, but no one calls him a whiner. Hmm, strange. 

[shepskisaac]

DashRunner92 wrote...

Again, completely subjective. Just because you don't think Garrus, Wrex, Mordin, Varric, Sten aren't attractive, doesn't mean other people don't. Especially Garrus, Wrex, and Sten. Go look up rule 34, it's fine, I can wait.

And guys know that Garrus/Wrex/Rule 34 is a minority. Very few wonder "geee Miranda better not leave my Shep for Wrex!"

DashRunner92 wrote...
Mshep is the playable character, which means he's the one you're going to be looking at and listening to the most. Shocking, I know, right?

He's an in-game representation of the player, so of course the player won't be threathened by himself. Shocking, I know.

Logan Cloud wrote...

Garrus is more popular than Kaidan by a long shot. He actually has a personality. He has a great voice actor.

Moral of story: Be threatened by Garrus.

What personality? He's a mental slave of Shep. His character arc and growth started and ended in ME1 and his only role in ME3 was to be badass, recycling calibrations meme and how bro he is for Shep. His VA is great, character, not very interesting.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 mars 2012 - 08:34 .

[Sal86]

Perhaps Kaidan suffers from a lack of dialogue when not in a romance with Shep? Jacob certainly did (not that I cared).

[yoshibb]

DoctorEss wrote...

syllogi wrote...

DoctorEss wrote...

Explain why my wife hates Carth, and hates Kaidan.  I'll be waiting.  

See the rest of my posts in this thread.  For the record, I don't care for Carth Onasi, but it has nothing to do with his voice.

She specifically hates the voice.  Whenever I'm (re)playing ME1, she's continually asking if I've gotten to the point where he gets killed off yet.  She can't stand listening to him speak.  Same as me.

But I'm sure you think I'm just "threatened" by a "handsome male", right?

That just means she doesn't like the voice, not that he's a bad actor. And how do you guys react in real life if you don't like someone's voice, do you want to kill them too? 

[Jimbe2693]

Hmm, when I first played Mass Effect I didn't care for Kaidan at all, I came to the same conclusion as alot of people here "He's a boring generic male character."

Then I started talking to him and taking him on missions and found I liked his character. He's an introverted guy that cares about doing the right thing, and not human centric. Similar to how I try to play my Shep.

I'm a fan of Raphael Sbarge, and I liked his VO for Kaidan, it fits the character well imo.

Modifié par Jimbe2693, 27 mars 2012 - 08:45 .