50 réponses à ce sujet

[AXidenT Gamer]

In the Orzammar quests, which is the "good" choice to help as Dwarven king? Neither seem particuarly good. Harrowmont probably is a bit more on the less evil side, but Bhelen seems like the better leader/more suitable candidate. Can anyone give me any pointers? Thanks!

[Taleroth]

Harrowmont is good. He's a weak king, but a good man.

[Riot Inducer]

just like real life politics there is no truly "good" canidate;



Harrowmont is the "conservative" one, he is more sensible but perhaps not the "strongest" of leaders, he also prefers to keep things traditional as far as dwarven society goes.



Bhelen, while a malicious power hungry kinslayer, is a very strong leader and wants to change dwarven society to be less oppressive to the lower castes.

[bambooxfox]

Harrowmont probably is a bit more on the less evil side, but Bhelen seems like the better leader/more suitable candidate.

That's about it in a nutshell. Just go with your gut feeling! When you reach the epilogue and finally see what your choice means for dwarven society, it'll impact you much more.

[Taleroth]

I don't know that we can say Horrowmont himself is Conservative. The King still has to answer to the Assembly. Bhelen is strong enough to push change strongly. Harrowmont is not.

[AXidenT Gamer]

I think I'll go with Bhelen then, better for a few to suffer but have a large majority be happier I suppose...



Argh, stupid politics...

[LaztRezort]

I'd have to say, going through a dwarf noble origin certainly fleshes out many of the characters in Orzammar, and adds even more nuance to the choice.



My advice pretty much agrees with the others: don't dwell on the choice too much, since you can always choose the other one the next play-through. Just make sure you pay attention to the epilogue to see how your choices affect the world...

[Null]

Yeah, pick one and go with it.



I always play the "good" guy, so I push Harrowmont for king.

[LordAsael]

Go ahead and figure out where your character would stand. That's probably the best way to do it your first play through.

[AXidenT Gamer]

Can you look around the Proving Arena if you side with Bhelen?

[Boeresmurf]

in politics there is no good and angels.

only time consuming evil and less evil

[Rainen89]

If you pick harrowmot the city suffers, it becomes closed off and povery sets in I believe it even mentions in house civil war. If bhelen is king the city prospers and the casteless are given chances to become highbornes. However, Orzammar loses power and becomes more of a monarchy/dictatorship with Bhelen reigning supreme allowing his line to continue until turmoil sets in again.

[DarkSpiral]

There has never been any mention of a house civil war in the ending I've gotten. Pointless wrangling in the Assembly over who will be heir when Harrowmont dies, but not actual war.



Of course the city was NEARLY at war during the events of the game, so it probably isn't a bad inference.



Also, I've never seen any mention of Orzammar losing power under Bhelen's rule. The ASSEMBLY does, absolutely. He pulls a dissolves the Assembly so they stop trying to undermine him. There can only be one Caesar, afterall.

[Original182]

Harrowmont is a good dwarf with good intentions.
Bhelen killed his eldest brother and placed that blame on the 2nd eldest brother, causing him to be sent to the Deep Roads. Bhelen is then the only one left of the Audecan line.

But from the epilogue, Harrowmont tried his best to rule Orzammar, but he had to deal with dissenters and later on it was said he died of a broken spirit.
But from what others have said, Bhelen made Orzammar prosperous.

So this is truly a really grey area of the game. Would you support a murderer who would kill his own brothers, to ensure Orzammar is in a better state?

Edit: For a casteless dwarf like myself, it's even more grey. My sister is a concubine of Prince Bhelen. If I roleplay my character truly, I cannot go against my own sister, who has been through a lot in the beginning. I cannot even get to choose Harrowmont. Plus Bhelen will remove the caste system, which is a very strong reason to support him, despite being someone who murders his own brothers.

Modifié par Original182, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:09 .

[Rainen89]

DarkSpiral wrote...



Also, I've never seen any mention of Orzammar losing power under Bhelen's rule. The ASSEMBLY does, absolutely. He pulls a dissolves the Assembly so they stop trying to undermine him. There can only be one Caesar, afterall.

Yes that's what I meant. Orzammars diplomatic power is given to Bhelen (Current king) rather than shared with the assembly/house of nobles. Where before the king was elected via assembly now it would be carried on through lineage.

Modifié par Rainen89, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:04 .

[AXidenT Gamer]

Boeresmurf wrote...

in politics there is no good and angels.
only time consuming evil and less evil

Anyone know this?

[Ponce de Leon]

Harrowmont is the good choice. For reference, the dwarf noble origin says it all. Bhelen seems all helpful and nice until the end.

Also, the two different coronation finals should give a clear shot of who's good and who's bad.

Finally, follow the last king's advice, since again, in the dwarf noble origin, the father will write a letter to you, given by the dwarven merchant in Denerim (your first companion too) along with the shield of Aeducan. There, everything is explained, or better, nothing is, but he and you know, as well as Harrowmont.

[izmirtheastarach]

I wish this had been better explained at the outset. Because of the nature of dwarven politics as portrayed by the game, the only sane choice is the one who will stop at nothing to achieve his goals. Harrowmat is a kind and fair king, but that isn't what is required to lead the dwarves to prosperity. They need an iron fist. Though there are a few combinations in the epilogue, Bhelen is always the better king.

So it's less of a gray area and more of an issue of understanding another culture.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:09 .

[Rainen89]

On the subject of dwarf noble origin (fav origin btw.) I would HOPE you know that you didn't kill him. Which is why it was so annoying to see conversation options of how I deserve this and how I should pay for my crimes.

[Original182]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I wish this had been better explained at the outset. Because of the nature of dwarven politics as portrayed by the game, the only sane choice is the one who will stop at nothing to achieve his goals. Harrowmat is a kind and fair king, but that isn't what is required to lead the dwarves to prosperity. They need an iron fist. Though there are a few combinations in the epilogue, Bhelen is always the better king.

So it's less of a gray area and more of an issue of understanding another culture.

I'm really shocked, you really think it's ok to murder your own brothers just to be king? I can see where you're coming from, as I have also pointed out that Bhelen in the epilogue was the better ruler. But the way you dismiss Prince Bhelen's actions is a bit disturbing.

Modifié par Original182, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:20 .

[Rainen89]

This is dwarven if you play as a dwarf noble the very first thing you can do is have a noble killed because he argued with a scholar regarding the history of his house. You also later hear that when aeducan was nominated one person disagreed and he was later killed. This is dark politics and it's not always pretty but it happens. Harrowmont is no better, he calls for your execution (if you're a dwarf commoner) all because you went to a proving kicked everyones ass but are not a noble or warrior so therefore shamed everyone. Harrowmont is hardly the lovable fluffy bunny everyone thinks he is.

[Original182]

Yes I remember those options when I played the dwarven noble. But surely even in such a culture, killing your own flesh and blood crosses the line?

[Apophis2412]

Rainen89 wrote...

Harrowmont is no better, he calls for your execution (if you're a dwarf commoner) all because you went to a proving kicked everyones ass but are not a noble or warrior so therefore shamed everyone. Harrowmont is hardly the lovable fluffy bunny everyone thinks he is.

That was not Harrowmont.

[Rainen89]

I'm fairly sure it was, if it wasn't it's the same voice actor, bah now i need to go replay it...son ofa. There is to some extent that yes, but even bhelen says how your own father Endrin usurped his brothers in the past to achieve the throne. It's horrible but it happens. Not to mention throughout history you'd be surprised what people do to keep themselves or their own lineage in power and on the throne, it's not pretty and there's plenty of fratricide, patricide, matricide and every kind of death (cide) you can think of.

[Apophis2412]

The Proving guy can be seen next to Duncan at 1:03:

And this is Harrow: http://dragonage.wik..._Harrowmont.JPG