171 réponses à ce sujet

[Reofeir]

 At the first part, anything the kid says is "The reapers are his" and blah blah blah. He tells Shepard his cruel and stupid logic, and then shepard says something about keeping their own form, and then later on says "maybe" and something about that the charateristic of organic life is thinking for themselves. So far, in my opinion, I do not see this as "Agreeing with the starkid" yet.
Then we are given 3 choices.
Destroy-Destroy the reapers and synthetics "Can wipe out reapers, including the geth"...he says "maybe" here. Not agreeing or disagreeing but just maybe, but to continue.
Control the reapers
Or Synthesis. 

Now to me destroy is disagreeing with them. It pretty much says "We don't need you." Right? Sure there's a heavy price tag, the geth dying with them, but it allows us to start anew without the reapers doing their thing with their logic.

Control is doing what the illusive man wanted to do, but in terms of thinking he can do it and not fail as well as not letting the geth die due to it. Heavy risk, but..well not very good prize but meh.

Now synthesis is pretty much agreeing with them, right? I mean you're doing what the reapers or at least starkid, thinks is the best solution. That would be shepard agreeing with starkid.

Sure it would be better if we were given a choice to say "You're wrong, look at the geth!" but would it listen? It would most likely say "You're wrong blah blah blah" anyways. So...Can someone help me see how shepard is just agreeing with the starchild? I'm confused on this still and I'm trying to see it.

[The Angry One]

Would it listen? I don't know.
Would Shepard try? HELL YES.

[CronoDragoon]

I think "agreeing with them" is short-hand for "he accepted without question that these options were the only ones possible."

Does that sound like your Shepard?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 28 mars 2012 - 12:52 .

[Taleroth]

I don't care if it listens. If it doesn't listen, Shepard reserves the right to tear the little brat apart. To call in the fleet of engineers to dismantle his holographic butt.

Modifié par Taleroth, 28 mars 2012 - 12:53 .

[gmboy902]

Shepard would have tried to talk some sense into it.

And some Shepards would risk annihilation to defeat the Reapers conventionally.

[Reofeir]

The Angry One wrote...

Would it listen? I don't know.
Would Shepard try? HELL YES.

But he injured...and before the kid stated his choices, it did sound like shepard was disagreeing. Just at that spot he was listening to what the "kid" had to say. Obviously he can overall disagree with the destroy choice, or agree with synthesis or agree with the illusive man's plot the whole time. Is the only reason people are saying shepard is agreeing because he was listening to the options he had?

[CombustiblePanda]

Zenor wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Would it listen? I don't know.
Would Shepard try? HELL YES.

But he injured...and before the kid stated his choices, it did sound like shepard was disagreeing. Just at that spot he was listening to what the "kid" had to say. Obviously he can overall disagree with the destroy choice, or agree with synthesis or agree with the illusive man's plot the whole time. Is the only reason people are saying shepard is agreeing because he was listening forced to choose between the options he had?

Fixed.

[TheOptimist]

Shepard takes it on faith that only those 3 options are available, and doesn't even attempt to call BS when told that destroying the Reapers requires the destruction of all synthetic life and much of modern technology. It still agrees with the underlying premise of the Starchild's solution, that synthetic and organic life cannot coexist. And despite having empirical proof throughout both ME 2 and 3 that this is a fundamental lie, Shepard never calls the kid out.

[shepskisaac]

I don't get how some people interpret "Maybe" as "OMG you so right Starchild!!!"

[PsYGuY508]

Shepard became it's slave by doing exactly what he told Shepard to do(regarding all three "choices") instead of flipping the brat off.

[Ultra Prism]

The plothole with destroy ending is that Reapers is sentient hybrid beings of organic and inorganic built - from ME2 .... wth destroy endings says synthetics will die ... what!!!

[gmboy902]

Zenor wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Would it listen? I don't know.
Would Shepard try? HELL YES.

But he injured...and before the kid stated his choices, it did sound like shepard was disagreeing. Just at that spot he was listening to what the "kid" had to say. Obviously he can overall disagree with the destroy choice, or agree with synthesis or agree with the illusive man's plot the whole time. Is the only reason people are saying shepard is agreeing because he was listening to the options he had?

"No. Please don't."

- John Shepard

[Jenonax]

Its well established now that arguing is in Shepard's nature, not once has he just accepted anything.

But far, far more importantly the Catalyst and its absurd logic and the very nature of our primary antagonists is just dumped on us, the player with little to no exposition. The main character questions so that we the audience can understand. The Catalyst could be completely right about synthetics killing organics, it may have copious examples, hell he may have countless genocides in a slideshow for all we know but Shepard never questions so we never get to understand.

[The Real Bowser]

"If you destroy all synthetics in the galaxy, the cycle will occur again."
"Maybe..." (accepting what he says right away)
"You could control them."
"So the Illusive man was right after all." (immediately thinking of Illusive Man, and that he was right after going through intense dialogue to stop/kill him.)
"The Illusive man tried to control them, but he couldn't because we already controlled him."
"But I can." (without any real nudge from Starkid to say this)

Yeah. This is a big part of why I believe the indoctrination theory, too, because there's no way Shepard would be this zombiefied otherwise.

[The Angry One]

Zenor wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Would it listen? I don't know.
Would Shepard try? HELL YES.

But he injured...and before the kid stated his choices, it did sound like shepard was disagreeing. Just at that spot he was listening to what the "kid" had to say. Obviously he can overall disagree with the destroy choice, or agree with synthesis or agree with the illusive man's plot the whole time. Is the only reason people are saying shepard is agreeing because he was listening to the options he had?

My Shepard would disagree with the destroy choice, she would never betray the Geth.
The other options are even more immoral.
My Shepard also wouldn't sacrifice the mass relays for spacebrat's little plan.

So injured or not Shepard would at least try.

[Reofeir]

CronoDragoon wrote...

I think "agreeing with them" is short-hand for "he accepted without question that these options were the only ones possible."

Does that sound like your Shepard?

Hm, it could be a possibility shepard is weakened by everything, and obviously just wants the reapers to end by this point. Though yes, one could say "Is there any other choice?" and then it would most likely just be "Watch the reapers beat the crap out of everyone" time. The device apperently, as it looks from design, only has 3 possible abilities. I guess it would of been nice to see shepard say "No these choices are bad" and just see the armada get beaten up. (I mean this is a fleet of good size, yes, but against a force that still takes a lot just to destroy one reaper.)

I made this thread to mostly see why people think this way as I couldn't personally see it. 

[Bantz]

CronoDragoon wrote...

I think "agreeing with them" is short-hand for "he accepted without question that these options were the only ones possible."

Does that sound like your Shepard?

this pretty much. The spacebrat says "here's your three options blah blah blah" and shep just accepts it and picks. There's no option for shep to say "scerw you guys i'm going home". Still confused as to why spacebrat even brought shep up and woke him up. Let the hero of earth die and your reapers can do their thing, the cycle will continue. Also not sure why there were already machines in the citidel that could control or destroy all reapers.

[Baronesa]

Zenor wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Would it listen? I don't know.
Would Shepard try? HELL YES.

But he injured...and before the kid stated his choices, it did sound like shepard was disagreeing. Just at that spot he was listening to what the "kid" had to say. Obviously he can overall disagree with the destroy choice, or agree with synthesis or agree with the illusive man's plot the whole time. Is the only reason people are saying shepard is agreeing because he was listening to the options he had?

Because those are the "solutions" proposed by the catalyst... Shepard would not follow that, would defy them or find a new solution on her own.

By accepting the solutions proposed by the Catalyst, that are made by adhering to it's logic, then Shepard is accepting the justification for the whole genocidal cycle

[Ibecomedeath]

Umm, Shepard was not given any real choice... You do not question anything the StarChild says, you just go along with it and ask nothing more than a couple clarifications...

Where's Shepard's usual 'hell no' response option?

Where's the option to decline from the 3 choices?

Where's the Paragon/Renegade option to try and talk the kid out of it or just flatly refuse?

I would have preferred an option to put the gun to my head and pull the trigger in the hope the war can be won via traditional means, or even let the cycle continue as I did not trust a thing that was said in the final moments...

Face it, we had no choice and the entire conversation flew in the face of Shepard's usual attitudes...

Modifié par Ibecomedeath, 28 mars 2012 - 01:00 .

[XRelakX]

Why not do the 3 and make the starchild confused? Just cut 1 hand and move it to the control area,then cut a leg and move it to the synthesis area and then just shot the destroy area.Problem Starchild?

[Erield]

Think about it this way:  A genocidal maniac comes up to  you and starts telling you why his way is saving all life.  You argue a bit at first, then realize that he's just insane and there's no point in it.  The maniac then gives you a gun and says that you have to either kill yourself, kill all of the innocents cowering behind cover around the corner, or push a button that activates a bunch of nuclear weapons and brings about the end of the world.

...and then Shepard just blithely does what he's told?  Yeah.

[UndeadTRex]

I know my Shepard would have at the very least gotten furious. Instead, he just kinda nodded his head and didn't even try to find another way. That really bothers me.

[spartan5127]

By agreeing to one of these choices you are implicitly agreeing to the logic of the cycle as these are the choices given by the creator of the cycle. Shepard would want the cycle stopped, but not in a way the creator of the cycle lays out.

[Reofeir]

The Angry One wrote...

Zenor wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Would it listen? I don't know.
Would Shepard try? HELL YES.

But he injured...and before the kid stated his choices, it did sound like shepard was disagreeing. Just at that spot he was listening to what the "kid" had to say. Obviously he can overall disagree with the destroy choice, or agree with synthesis or agree with the illusive man's plot the whole time. Is the only reason people are saying shepard is agreeing because he was listening to the options he had?

My Shepard would disagree with the destroy choice, she would never betray the Geth.
The other options are even more immoral.
My Shepard also wouldn't sacrifice the mass relays for spacebrat's little plan.

So injured or not Shepard would at least try.

I see your point. The whole "Shepard doesn't at least try to argue". Understandable. Again I'm not really calling anyone out fully, as I just made the thread to find out why people think this way. In my eyes, I can see why someone would be in this state. I am enjoying reading people thought's on the matter though.

[Reofeir]

Erield wrote...

Think about it this way:  A genocidal maniac comes up to  you and starts telling you why his way is saving all life.  You argue a bit at first, then realize that he's just insane and there's no point in it.  The maniac then gives you a gun and says that you have to either kill yourself, kill all of the innocents cowering behind cover around the corner, or push a button that activates a bunch of nuclear weapons and brings about the end of the world.

...and then Shepard just blithely does what he's told?  Yeah.

To me that choice scenario would be more like the situation if:

Genocidla maniac grabbed a bunch of kids and has a bomb on him.
You are able to get him away from the kids but 
A) You have to jump on him and explode with him to save the kids.
Kill the guy letting the kids explode but can walk away knowing that guy is dead...but knowing there was a heavy risk.
C) Let the guy do what he wants...Couldn't really think of something akin to synthesis.

Just my thought though.