380 réponses à ce sujet

[Grimy Bunyip]

could you explain what you mean by "hurricane uses 2 ammo per shot"?

does this mean it shoots 2 bullets at a time?
or does it just use up to ammo for every bullet shot?
something like that?

[Tangster]

Grimy Bunyip wrote...

could you explain what you mean by "hurricane uses 2 ammo per shot"?

does this mean it shoots 2 bullets at a time?
or does it just use up to ammo for every bullet shot?
something like that?

Hurricane uses up 2 ammo per shot it fires as in it's 40 shot magazine will only spit out 20 shots. It does not fire two shots at a time.

Modifié par Tangster, 19 avril 2012 - 12:44 .

[SpiffsGhost]

Not sure why this hasn't been stickied, but it is an incredible collection of useful info. Bravo!

- Spiff

[Xyrm]

Your listed DPS for the GPS is wrong in the spreadsheet. The trick is that the listed damage for the GPS is for a fully charged shot (while the Graal lists completely uncharged damage). A completely uncharged shot is about 45% as strong as the listed damage (in reality it's VERY hard to pull this off, most people are probably in the ~50% area).

[KaeserZen]

Tangster wrote...

Grimy Bunyip wrote...

could you explain what you mean by "hurricane uses 2 ammo per shot"?

does this mean it shoots 2 bullets at a time?
or does it just use up to ammo for every bullet shot?
something like that?

Hurricane uses up 2 ammo per shot it fires as in it's 40 shot magazine will only spit out 20 shots. It does not fire two shots at a time.

Is this a bug ? Intentional ?

Does this mean that each time you click, it fires a 2 shot-burst because the ROF is so high on that little b******** ?

[Tangster]

KaeserZen wrote...

Is this a bug ? Intentional ?

Does this mean that each time you click, it fires a 2 shot-burst because the ROF is so high on that little b******** ?

No it just costs you 2 ammo, doesn't fire 2 shots. Purely a visual effect to give the impression of a uber-high ROF.

Xyrm wrote...

Your listed DPS for the GPS is wrong in the spreadsheet. The trick is that the listed damage for the GPS is for a fully charged shot (while the Graal lists completely uncharged damage). A completely uncharged shot is about 45% as strong as the listed damage (in reality it's VERY hard to pull this off, most people are probably in the ~50% area).

Euughhh. Stupid gun. Corrected.

[Timerider42]

Another question: the Scorpion and the AP mod. How does it work?
It can't pass through targets, but does it still do more damage to armored targets?

[Tangster]

Timerider42 wrote...

Another question: the Scorpion and the AP mod. How does it work?
It can't pass through targets, but does it still do more damage to armored targets?

I've always assumed so. But the increased damage is negligable as even a level V piercing mod will only reduce the armour DR on gold by 65%, which is 32.5 damage per shot.

[Rolenka]

I'm having a lot of difficulty determining what all of the variables mean. I've put together a list of all of the weapons ones (mods are pretty self-explanatory).

https://docs.google....LVVQRXlfNmFENWc

I have to run, but I'll be back later to give my best guesses. Tangster, if you want to copy this into your own spreadsheets and add your expertise, you are free and encouraged to do so.  The same goes for anyone else, for that matter.

Modifié par Rolenka, 24 avril 2012 - 11:12 .

[Tangster]

Direct Damage Percent - Bleeding weapons deal this percentage of their damage on hit(kishok only so far, graal deal 100% of it's damage on hit)
DOT Duration - Damage over time for bleeding.
Instant Fire Damage - GPS damage penalty the Geth Plasma Shotgun takes from not charging it fully i.e. you fire it instantly. It reduces the damage by 55%. (Elecbender)
First Hit Damage - GPS 1st plasma ball damage(assuming all balls hit same target)
Second Hit Damage - GPS 2nd plasma ball damage(assuming all balls hit same target) 
Third Hit Damage - GPS 3rd plasma ball damage(assuming all balls hit same target) 
Distance Penetrated - Self explantory
Friction Enabled - Uses mouse/cursor acceleration?
Min. Zoom Crosshair Range - Self explantory 
Max Zoom Crosshair Range - Self explantory 
Min. Zoom Snap Distance- for quickscoping on consoles.
Max Zoom Snap Distance - for quickscoping on consoles. 
Reckoning Charge Time - Chakram launcher charge time
Reckoning Damage Multiplier - Chakram launcher charged shot damage multipler
Reckoning Recoil Multiplier - Chakram launcher  charged shot recoil multiplier
Cover Lean Exit Delay - Self explantory  
Cover Partial Lean Exit Delay -Self explantory  
Not Regular Weapon -  Needs unlocking in SP?
Recoil Zoom Fade Speed - Self explantory   
Magnetic Correction Threshold Angle - for quickscoping on consoles. 
Max. Magnetic Correction Angle - for quickscoping on consoles. 
Thor Damage Multiplier - Arc pistol charged damage multipler
Thor Recoil Multiplier - Arc pistol charged recoil multipler 
Stat Damage -  damage displayed on stat bars
Ideal Max. Range - Possibly for stagger chance/pellet spread?
Ideal Min. Range - Possibly for stagger chance/pellet spread ?
Ideal Target Range - Possibly for stagger chance/pellet spread ? 

Modifié par Tangster, 24 avril 2012 - 11:45 .

[Elecbender]

Instant fire damage is the penalty the Geth Plasma Shotgun takes from not charging it fully i.e. you fire it instantly. It reduces the damage by 55%.

[Tangster]

Updated with April 24th Balance changes.

[Rolenka]

Thanks! Though I'm not sure the how self-explanatory the Recoil Zoom Fade Speed is, personally. Is it the rate at which your crosshair returns to normal after a shot when zoomed?

What I'm mostly having trouble with are the accuracy stats. I can't make heads or tails of them.

Acc. Fire Interp. Speed
Acc. Fire Penalty
Zoom Acc. Fire Interp Speed
Zoom Acc. Fire Penalty
Min. Aim Error
Max. Aim Error
Min. Zoom Aim Error
Max. Zoom Aim Error

[Tangster]

Rolenka wrote...
Thanks! Though I'm not sure the how self-explanatory the Recoil Zoom Fade Speed is, personally. Is it the rate at which your crosshair returns to normal after a shot when zoomed?

 
Yes!

Rolenka wrote... 
What I'm mostly having trouble with are the accuracy stats. I can't make heads or tails of them.

Acc. Fire Interp. Speed - Reset time for accuracy loss(not in seconds)
Acc. Fire Penalty - Accuracy lost per shot
Zoom Acc. Fire Interp Speed - Reset time for accuracy loss when zoomed(not in seconds)
Zoom Acc. Fire Penalty - Accuracy lost per shot when zoomed
Min. Aim Error - Minimum shot drift
Max. Aim Error - Maximum shot drift
Min. Zoom Aim Error - Zoomed minimum shot drift
Max. Zoom Aim Error - Zoomed maximum shot drift

Modifié par Tangster, 25 avril 2012 - 09:29 .

[Rolenka]

Thanks so much!

[Rolenka]

Hmm, any idea what the weight capacity conversion is? The wiki says an Adept starts with a capacity of 10, but few weapons go heavier than 1.5. Just move the decimal point one to the right?

[Tangster]

Rolenka wrote...

Hmm, any idea what the weight capacity conversion is? The wiki says an Adept starts with a capacity of 10, but few weapons go heavier than 1.5. Just move the decimal point one to the right?

No idea at all, but you suggestion sounds very reasonable.

[Rolenka]

Tangster wrote...

Rolenka wrote...

Hmm, any idea what the weight capacity conversion is? The wiki says an Adept starts with a capacity of 10, but few weapons go heavier than 1.5. Just move the decimal point one to the right?

No idea at all, but you suggestion sounds very reasonable.

I looked into it myself.  I'm guessing the Wiki used a number displayed in-game.

You can find the values in coalesced.bin in BioGame.ini > SfxGameContent > SfxPowerCustomAction > (class name)Passive

I found a few variables in the Adept passive:

Evolve_WeightCapacityBonus = 0.2f
WeightCapacity =  (BaseValue=0.1f,Formula=BonusIsHardValue,RankBonuses[1]=0.2f)

My single player Adept has rank 2, and can use the Avengeer I (1.0) and Vindicator I (1.25) with a full 200% bonus. However, she gets +175% with the Phaeston I (1.35).

(EDIT: Never mind, my Adept has the rank 5 evolution after all)

That would suggest it started at 0.1, then rank 2 raised it to 0.13. I'm not sure how that mathematically works given the above variables, though. 0.1 plus 0.2 should equal 0.3. Maybe something is multiplying the bonuses, but not the BaseValue, by 0.1 before they are added.

Meanwhile, in the game, the weight capacity shows as 10, then 30, then 50. When obviously, your capacity is not increasing five-fold.

Modifié par Rolenka, 25 avril 2012 - 11:34 .

[Iodine]

I haven't looked into it in-depth at all, but this is generally accurate to my knowledge.
Note that I'm just calculating everything this way for ease of explanation, it's probably not the intended/actual/"ideal" method.

The max encumberance is 2.0 (weights are subtracted, this is why if you remove all weapons you will be at 200%) and for multiplayer, the base encumberancecapacity is 0.3 (a.k.a. 30% capacity). Some classes have different values (Krogans are 0.5, Turians 0.4) as a base capacity. So, for example, let's use an Asari Adept.

Base is 2.0 (200%). Asari Adept has no special encumberancecapacity, so they use the default 0.3 (30%) capacity. Add these together, and your total is 2.3 (would be 230% if it wasn't restricted to 200% max).

Now, say you're using a Carnifex X, which has an encumberanceweight of 1.0 to 0.5.
Note - make sure to check the balance changelog to make sure you have the right stat values, if you're going off of c.bin and keep get confused by wrong answers, like I did throughout this entire post :V

So, you're at a theoretical 2.3 (230%), and you equip a Carnifex X with a weight of 0.5.
2.3 - 0.5 = 1.8, or 180% cooldown bonus
Say you level up to rank1 Asari Justicar passive (which is +10 weight capacity, or 10% or 0.1)
1.8 + 0.1 = 1.9, or 190% cooldown bonus.

Now say you switch to a Drell adept with unleveled passive, who now has 0.45 (45%) starting encumberance capacity.
(2.0 base + 0.45 capacity) - 0.5 carnifex = 1.95, or 195% bonus.

Krogan soldier (0.5 capacity), with passve at r4 Damage/Capacity (r1 is 20 or 0.2, r4 is 30 or 0.3) with a Revenant X equipped (now 1.85-1.25, so 1.25 for X):
(2.0 + 0.5 krogan base) + 0.2 + 0.3 passive) = 3.0 capacity
3.0 capacity - 1.25 revenenat = 1.75, or 175%

And just to figure out for sure the r6 passive x% weight reductions, human soldier (base encumberancecapacity is 0.45, taken from balance changelog), passive r1 0.1 and r4 0.2, equipping Revenant X (1.25 weight):
(2.0 + 0.45 + 0.1 + 0.2) = 2.75 capacity
2.75 capacity - 1.25 Rev = 1.50
Actual is 1.7 (170%) according to my soldier using those stats
1.7 - 1.5 = 0.2
So the r6 "decrease the weight of all weapons by 20%" is just another normal fixed "BonusIsHardValue" number, same as the passive +10/20/30 weight capacity bonuses and base values. I was pretty sure I remembered that being the case, but I just wanted to confirm and not accidentally misinform.

Edit: I think I fixed all the math errors, which were just me typing the wrong number, but everything is still accurate. Any mathletes who want to explain this better, feel free. I've done a pretty terrible job of stumbling through it. I'd assume the game just starts from the 2.0 max, subtracts weapon weight, then adds modifiers from passives.

Modifié par Iodine, 26 avril 2012 - 12:01 .

[Tangster]

Iodine wrote...


I haven't looked into it in-depth at all, and I know this isn't the best way to go about it, but this is generally accurate to my knowledge.

The max encumberance is 2.0 (weights are subtracted, this is why if you remove all weapons you will be at 200%) and for multiplayer, the base encumberancecapacity is 0.3 (a.k.a. 30% capacity). Some classes have different values (Krogans are 0.5, Turians 0.4) as a base capacity. So, for example, let's use an Asari Adept.

Note that I'm just doing it this way to make the explanation clearer, it's not the "ideal"/intended way to calculate it, I'd assume.

Base is 2.0 (200%). Asari Adept has no special encumberancecapacity, so they use the default 0.3 (30%) capacity. Add these together, and your total is 2.3 (would be 230% if it wasn't restricted to 200% max).

Now, say you're using a Carnifex X, which has an encumberanceweight of 1.0 to 0.5.
Note - make sure to check the balance changelog to make sure you have the right stat values, if you're going off of c.bin and keep get confused by wrong answers, like I did throughout this entire post :V

So, you're at a theoretical 2.3 (230%), and you equip a Carnifex X with a weight of 0.5.
2.3 - 0.5 = 1.8, or 180% cooldown bonus
Say you level up to rank1 Asari Justicar passive (which is +10 weight capacity, or 10% or 0.1)
1.8 + 0.1 = 1.9, or 190% cooldown bonus.

Now say you switch to a Drell adept, who now has 0.45 (45%) starting encumberance capacity.
(2.0 base + 0.45 capacity) - 0.5 carnifex = 1.95, or 195% bonus.

Krogan soldier (0.5 capacity), with passve at r4 Damage/Capacity (r1 is 20 or 0.2, r4 is 30 or 0.3) with a Revenant X equipped (now 1.85-1.25, so 1.25 for X):
(2.0 + 0.5 krogan base) + 0.2 + 0.3 passive) = 3.0 capacity
3.0 capacity - 1.25 revenenat = 1.75, or 175%

And just to figure out for sure the r6 passive x% weight reductions, human soldier (base, 0.45 from balance changelog), passive r1 0.1 and r4 0.2, equipping Revenant X (1.25 weight):
(2.0 + 0.45 + 0.1 + 0.2) = 2.75 capacity
2.75 capacity - 1.25 Rev = 1.50
Actual is 1.7 (170%) according to my soldier using those stats
1.7 - 1.5 = 0.2
So the r6 "decrease the weight of all weapons by 20%" is just another normal fixed "BonusIsHardValue" number, same as the passive +10/20/30 weight capacity bonuses and base values. I was pretty sure I remembered that being the case, but I just wanted to confirm and not accidentally misinform.

This forum could do with LaTeX coding.
The main reason I never really looked into the weight bonuses was beacuse it doesn't take very long to choose a loadout that's reasonably light and still packs a punch. The weight and CD ingame is accurate(with the exception of UL materials) whereas the weapon stats are horribly misleading.

[Iodine]

I think we all ignore a lot of mechanics type stuff just because it's not important or nobody really cares, but I try to at least figure out the basics of all the unexplained/untested stuff taken from the data files/ini's, since everyone either seems to take it for granted, assume they know how it works, or ignore it completely.

Modifié par Iodine, 25 avril 2012 - 11:55 .

[Tangster]

Iodine wrote...

I think we all ignore a lot of mechanics type stuff just because it's not important or nobody really cares, but I try to at least figure out the basics of all the unexplained/untested stuff taken from the data files/ini's, since everyone either seems to take it for granted, assume they know how it works, or ignore it completely.

Now the unsung heroes. Back in the Baldur's Gate days everyone did it.

[Rolenka]

Iodine wrote...

I think we all ignore a lot of mechanics type stuff just because it's not important or nobody really cares, but I try to at least figure out the basics of all the unexplained/untested stuff taken from the data files/ini's, since everyone either seems to take it for granted, assume they know how it works, or ignore it completely.

I suppose. I can think of one reason it is useful to know: Planning what weapons to upgrade in Single Player. That's what caused me to look into it. Anyway, I like your spirit, Iodine, and I think I'm stuck reading all of your posts in the voice of a salarian.

It would be so helpful if we could see source code, like in Dragon Age. :innocent:

It looks like the Rank 2 bonus is the float following BonusIsHardValue,RankBonuses, and the Rank 5 bonus is the evolve_weightcapacitybonus value.

What I don't understand is why the Soldier is the only single player class to have a [2] following RankBonuses instead of a [1], or what that means.

My findings: 

Starting for Commander Shepard: 0.75

Adept and Engineer bonus:
With Rank 1: 0.1
With Rank 2: 0.3
With Rank 5: 0.5

Infiltrator, Sentinel and Vanguard bonus: 
With Rank 1: 0.15
With Rank 2: 0.35
With Rank 5: 0.7

Soldier bonus: 
With Rank 1: 0.2
With Rank 2: 0.5
With Rank 5: 1.0

So a Sentinel with the Rank 2 passive could equip a weapon weighing 1.1 and still get a +200% bonus. For every 0.1 above that, the bonus drops by 10%. That's probably the easiest way to think about it.

[Iodine]

Rolenka wrote...

It looks like the Rank 2 bonus is the float following BonusIsHardValue,RankBonuses, and the Rank 5 bonus is the evolve_weightcapacitybonus value.

What I don't understand is why the Soldier is the only single player class to have a [2] following RankBonuses instead of a [1], or what that means.

You're on the right track and basically there, so I'll just clarify. The [1]/[2] is just a naming/counting/reference convention. RankBonuses are from ranks/upgrades you get every time ou level the skill a certain number of times (rank 1, 2, and 3 of a skill, no choice, always the same bonus). Evolve_* bonuses are for r4-r6, where you pick one of the two paths, a bonus you may or may not get. Probably just so they don't have to create a separate Rank1_WeaponDamageBonus, Rank1_WeightCapacityBonus, Rank1_PowerDamageBonus, Rank2_WeaponDamageBonus, etc. for every single skill/passive on every single player and MP class (since you're guaranteed to get those bonuses if you level the skill [x] times, and to keep the .ini files from getting filled with unnecessary separate rank bonus listings for fixed bonuses). Just a guess.

The other classes in single player seem to all get a weight capacity bonus at rank 2 of their passive, but the Soldier (single player version still, of course) passive has a weapon damage bonus at r2 instead, then the weight capacity bonus at r3. Start counting the skill ranks from level 1 = 0 (because before that, you don't have the skill and it has no effect whatsoever, so r1 = 0 or initial value). To get a better idea, look at some of the MP consumables:

sfxgamempcontent.sfxgameeffect_matchconsumable_ammopower_armorpiercing
(Armor-piercing ammo consumable)
armorreduction[0] = 0.5f
armorreduction[1] = 0.65f
armorreduction[2] = 0.75f
damage[0] = 0.10f
damage[1] = 0.20f
damage[2] = 0.30f
...

Those are values for Armor-Piercing Rounds I, II, and IIi. It's just that there is no Armor-Piercing Rounds 0, so the first actual rank (I) counts as the origin (if you have it, it's at least rank 1). I've never gone beyond basic programming or code design, so I don't know if there's a particular reason for this, or if it's just to save a little effort and keep skills easy to change quickly (for tweaking/balancing), or something required by the game engine, or just a design choice.

Modifié par Iodine, 26 avril 2012 - 03:56 .

[peddroelm]

Iodine wrote...

sfxgamempcontent.sfxgameeffect_matchconsumable_ammopower_armorpiercing
(Armor-piercing ammo consumable)
armorreduction[0] = 0.5f
armorreduction[1] = 0.65f
armorreduction[2] = 0.75f
damage[0] = 0.10f
damage[1] = 0.20f
damage[2] = 0.30f
...

Those are values for Armor-Piercing Rounds I, II, and IIi. It's just that there is no Armor-Piercing Rounds 0, so the first actual rank (I) counts as the origin (if you have it, it's at least rank 1). I've never gone beyond basic programming or code design, so I don't know if there's a particular reason for this, or if it's just to save a little effort and keep skills easy to change quickly (for tweaking/balancing), or something required by the game engine, or just a design choice.

10q for this ... its been bothering me for a while and now I've found it ...

The SP AP ammo has this line in its config section
piercingdamage = (BaseValue=0.5f)

As you already quoted - the MP AP doesn't have that line in its section ....(And it doen't seem to inherit it from the SP version ...)

======
What does that mean ?  Will again use the infamous Double hit per bullet Atlas example because it makes testing cover penetration effects easy ...


The SP version of AP ammo cover penetration ability comes at a cost to damage (*0.5 to base weapon damage) for shots that went trough cover ...The MP version of AP ammo has no such harsh restriction ...

==========
Ex1

So for a Mantis adding AP ammo in SP vs atlas - it gains the second hit (due to penetration) that will do only do 50% damage for the first hit however ..

So for a Mantis adding AP ammo in MP vs atlas  - 
it gains the second hit (due to penetration) that will do 100% damage for the first hit (double damage).. 

(this is what my test results  (SP & MP)  illustrated - but I had no proof sas to why it was happening)

==========

Ex2

So for a Widow  SP & MP vs atlas - it already has the second hit (due to penetration) that will do 100% of the first hit(double damage) ... 

BUT

If you add AP ammo to Widow ( in MP - > it will still do double damage vs atlas || in SP it the second hit is nerfed to do 50% damage ... )

(this again was verified by me with test results in both MP & SP ) 

===========

Modifié par peddroelmz, 26 avril 2012 - 10:35 .