380 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabresandiego]

So you are telling me that an unmodded scimitar 5 on gold difficulty is hitting a ravager for 88 per shot? That means it would take 56 shots to kill a ravager. I have never seen that low damage out of a shotgun.

88 per pellet seems reasonable, as that is 7 shots and seems about correct for an unmodded scimitar 5. But your math is showing 10.93 damage per pellet, which cant be right.

Scimitar only holds 29 rounds at level 5, you are telling me that there are only enough rounds to get a ravager to half health. Something about this data is extremely bogus.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 11 avril 2012 - 08:06 .

[mozez101]

Wait, so the GPS ignores the armor DR on enemies? Dang it, I have been using the AP mod for the GPS all this time and it turned out to be completely worthless? Lol. Oh well, at least now I know. Probably will exchange that with the extended clips.

Modifié par mozez101, 11 avril 2012 - 08:15 .

[peddroelm]

Sabresandiego wrote...

So you are telling me that an unmodded scimitar 5 on gold difficulty is hitting a ravager for 88 per shot? That means it would take 56 shots to kill a ravager. I have never seen that low damage out of a shotgun.

88 per pellet seems reasonable, as that is 7 shots and seems about correct for an unmodded scimitar 5.

Scimitar 35.4-44.2

(((44.2 - 35.4) / 9) * 100) / 35.4 = ~2.76208412 % per upgrade lvl

Base damage for Scimitar V = 35.4 * (1 + (0.0276208 * 4)) = ~39.3111053

Extended Barrel V 25% WD
Passive ~22.5% WD

Vs gold DR 50

((39.3111053 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.225)) - 50) * 8 = 63.8710425 per shot

You can improve this significantly with armor piercing mods and more sources of extra weapon damage (cloak, AR)...

[Sabresandiego]

Peddro, are you saying that an unmodded scimitar 5 takes 56 shots to kill a ravager on gold? Which is roughly double the amount of shots the gun can carry?

[peddroelm]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Something about this data is extremely bogus.

Its not bogus - its exactly how it works .. thats how the legend of the MIGHTY GETH WATER GUN was born ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 11 avril 2012 - 08:11 .

[peddroelm]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Peddro, are you saying that an unmodded scimitar 5 takes 56 shots to kill a ravager on gold? Which is roughly double the amount of shots the gun can carry?

Yes .. But add AP mod and AP ammo and that number goes down dramatically ...



Back the previous example add  AP Piercing mod  (65% pierce) and AP ammo lvl 1 (10% ED 50% pierce)

((39.3111053 * 0.1) * 8) + ((39.3111053 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.225)) * 8) = 495.319927 

Or 
AP Piercing mod  (65% pierce) and Warp ammo lvl 1 (15% ED 25% weakening) 


((39.3111053 * 0.15) * 8) + (((39.3111053 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.225)) - (50 * (1 - 0.65) * (1 - 0.25))) * 8) = 406.044369

Modifié par peddroelmz, 11 avril 2012 - 08:17 .

[Sabresandiego]

Will a claymore shotgun hit a brute harder with a damage mod, or shredder mod assuming all pellets hit? Also what about if incendiary and armor piercing are also factored in.

Incendiary + damage mod
Incendiary + shredder mod
AP + damage mod
AP + shredder mod

[Tangster]

Give me 40 mins and I'll see exactly how many shots a unmodded scimitar takes to down a ravager in gold.

[Sabresandiego]

Actually I just did some simple math

Claymore 10 = 206 dmg per pellet
dmg mod = 25% = 257 dmg per pellet, 207 to armor
armor mod = 206 dmg per pellet, 189 to armor

This does not factor in ammo powers though. I wonder if they change whether the damage mod or shredder mod is better for the claymore.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 11 avril 2012 - 08:28 .

[superbeast423]

You forgot to add the Particle Rifle from thte " From Ashes" DLC other than that good list

[peddroelm]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Will a claymore shotgun hit a brute harder with a damage mod, or shredder mod assuming all pellets hit? Also what about if incendiary and armor piercing are also factored in.

Incendiary + damage mod
Incendiary + shredder mod
AP + damage mod
AP + shredder mod

Claymore X base pellet damage 206
Barrel 25% WD
Passives 22.5 % (? depends on build)
Incendiary Ammo III based on Tangster consumable info has no armor Weakening//Piercing effect (it does in SP) only 30% WD
AP ammo III gives 30% WD & 75% Armor pierce ...and cover penetration (balance issues ?)
Shredder 5 (65% Armor piercing)

Will only do damage per pellet (final damage is *8 assuming all pellets hit)
=======

Incendiary III + damage mod V

(206 * 0.3) + (206 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.225)) - 50 = 315.65

========

Incendiary III + shredder mod V

((206 * 0.3) + (206 * (1 + 0.225))) - (50 * (1 - 0.65)) = 296.65

(damage mod is better for Claymore because it is a high base damage weapon (even more pronounced effect for single shot sniper weapons) ... Shredder is much better for puny weapons like the scimitar)


========

AP ammo III + damage mod V

(206 * 0.3) + (206 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.225)) - (50 * (1 - 0.75)) = 353.15

=======

AP ammo III + shredder mod V

(206 * 0.3) + (206 * (1 + 0.225)) = 314.15

=======

Clear winner AP ammo & Damage Mod - second mod could be Choke for accuracy or extra ammo ... (AP ammo III removes most of the DR by its own)

[master ring]

sticky plz

[Sabresandiego]

The choke mod for accuracy is a must, since pellets that dont hit do 0 dmg. Thanks for the math, Ive been using accuraccy and damage on my claymore this whole time, but was wondering if shredder was worth it. Looks like shredder may be better for the less powerful more rapid fire shotguns, but not the claymore.

[peddroelm]

Sabresandiego wrote...

The choke mod for accuracy is a must, since pellets that dont hit do 0 dmg. Thanks for the math, Ive been using accuraccy and damage on my claymore this whole time, but was wondering if shredder was worth it. Looks like shredder may be better for the less powerful more rapid fire shotguns, but not the claymore.

If not shredder - AP ammo becomes mandatory when dealing with DR ...Warp ammo could work in a pinch also but is less effective than AP and lacks cover penetration  ... (and its cover penetration that allows you to do double damage to atlas ....)

Modifié par peddroelmz, 11 avril 2012 - 08:55 .

[Sabresandiego]

What do you mean by DR? Also, if cryo 3 weakens armor by 50%, what exactly does that mean mathematically, as compared to how AP ammo works?

[Tangster]

Peddro is correct. Armor DR is applied per pellet on shotguns.

Tested with:
Krogan with powers reset, Reapers Gold.
Against a Brute the Scimitar X (extra clip+smart choke) took 220 shots from point blank range to kill it without any AP mods.

Modifié par Tangster, 11 avril 2012 - 09:13 .

[Sabresandiego]

Tangster wrote...

Peddro is correct. Armor DR is applied per pellet on shotguns.

Tested with:
Krogan with powers reset, Reapers Gold.
Against a Brute the Scimitar X (extra clip+smart choke) took 220 shots from point blank range to kill it.

LMAO

[Tangster]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Tangster wrote...

Peddro is correct. Armor DR is applied per pellet on shotguns.

Tested with:
Krogan with powers reset, Reapers Gold.
Against a Brute the Scimitar X (extra clip+smart choke) took 220 shots from point blank range to kill it.

LMAO

Have to use the silly number of spare ammo packs I have somehow.

Modifié par Tangster, 11 avril 2012 - 09:08 .

[Sabresandiego]

What is the difference between armor weakness and armor reduction?

I know armor reduction is for example: shredder mod reduces it by 65%
gold is 50
after shredder mod its 17.5

what about armor weakness?

[Tangster]

Sabresandiego wrote...

What is the difference between armor weakness and armor reduction?

I know armor reduction is for example: shredder mod reduces it by 65%
gold is 50
after shredder mod its 17.5

what about armor weakness?

Peddro will correct me if I'm wrong, but armour reduction reduces the per bullet damage reduction and armour weakness is the same as increaseing the damage the armour bar takes.

[peddroelm]

Sabresandiego wrote...

What do you mean by DR? Also, if cryo 3 weakens armor by 50%, what exactly does that mean mathematically, as compared to how AP ammo works?

DR - damage reduced   - 50 damage per shot  vs all armored targets on gold

If no piercing mods used in weapon (shredder)  - 50% armor weakening of cryo III is the same with 50% armor piercing from AP ammo lvl 1 ...    50 DR becomes 25 DR ...

But piercing from AP ammo stacks (add) with piercing from weapon mods (shredder) and can reduce DR to 0   while the armor weakening effects from cryo//warp are multiplied with the effect of the weapon mod -> you cannot reduce DR to 0 this way ...There are some numerical examples above ... (Warp I & Shredder V)  

50 * (1-0.5-0.65) = 0 DR   (lvl 1 AP ammo & lvl V shredder mod) (going over 100% piercing does no extra damage)
50 * (1 - 0.5) * (1 - 0.65) = 8.75 DR ( lvl III cryo ammo &  lvl V shredder mod )

 

[Sabresandiego]

I have a hunch that armor reduction effect bullets only, but armor weakening may also effect the damage which armor takes from powers? This would make cryo and warp ammo especially good for power users, and AP especially good for weapon classes. Disruptor and Incendiary would be good for tech bursts and their other effects.

[Tangster]

Sabresandiego wrote...

I have a hunch that armor reduction effect bullets only, but armor weakening may also effect the damage which armor takes from powers? This would make cryo and warp ammo especially good for power users, and AP especially good for weapon classes. Disruptor and Incendiary would be good for tech bursts and their other effects.

You test it this time.

[peddroelm]

Tangster wrote...

Peddro is correct. Armor DR is applied per pellet on shotguns.

Tested with:
Krogan with powers reset, Reapers Gold.
Against a Brute the Scimitar X (extra clip+smart choke) took 220 shots from point blank range to kill it without any AP mods.

Without any extra WD  from skills or barrel Scimitar X does 44.2 damage per pellet. Which is lower than 50 DR of gold ...
1 pellet hit does the minumum 5 damage     
5* 8 =40 damage per shot
Gold Brute has 9000 Armor HP
  
9 000 / 40 = 225 scimi shots to kill it ...

How did you survive 220 shots  ? Brutes have instakill attacks 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 11 avril 2012 - 09:24 .

[Tangster]

peddroelmz wrote...

Tangster wrote...

Peddro is correct. Armor DR is applied per pellet on shotguns.

Tested with:
Krogan with powers reset, Reapers Gold.
Against a Brute the Scimitar X (extra clip+smart choke) took 220 shots from point blank range to kill it without any AP mods.

Without any extra WD  from skills or barrel Scimitar X does 44.2 damage per pellet. Which is lower than 50 DR of gold ...
1 pellet hit does the minumum 5 damage     
5* 8 =40 damage per shot
Gold Brute has 9000 Armor HP
  
9 000 / 40 = 225 scimi shots to kill it ...

Might have hit weak spots on ocassion.

Brute turned up on wave 2.
I've been away for ~1 hour. How do you think I did it?

Modifié par Tangster, 11 avril 2012 - 09:25 .