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[Athenau]

Tangster wrote...

Athenau wrote...

Wait, isn't that the old (incorrect) formula?

AFAIK the correct formula was already posted. Why'd you change it?

TPB = (shots per burst - 1) x 60/ROF + Min Refire.

Something like the saber fires less than a shot per second with the "new" formula, which isn't true.

No, the new formula accounts for refire time by calculating the maximum possible number of bursts per min, the time for a burst is considered to be the time taken for the burst itself+the min refire time.

The saber and other slow ROF weapons aren't counted as their ROF means time between shots is always greater than the refire time.

Thanks for pointing out the TPB mistake though, correcting now.

Having said that the game insists that the hurricane and tempest have burst fire...which they don't.... Applying the DPS for burst weapons to them results in a  division by 0. These two may revert to the old formula.

I'm not following you.

For the saber the TPB according to the posted formula would be :  1 * 60/80 + .75 = 1.5.  This is obviously not true.

With the old formula it was:  (1 - 1) * 60/80 + .75 = .75 which matches observation, but isn't strictly correct for semi-autos. 

From  testing with a modded the game it's actually:

TPS (time per shot) = Max[60/ROF, Min Refire time], i.e your fire rate is capped by your ROF or min refire (whichever gives you the lowest number).

Extending that to burst fire weapons the correct formula would be:

TPB = (Rounds per burst - 1) * 60/ROF + Max[Min refire time, 60/ROF]

So if your refire time is shorter than 60/ROF, it doesn't matter, which seems to be what you're saying above.  This is equivalent to the old formula in most cases, since weapons had relatively long refire times.

Edit, I see you updated the OP.

Modifié par Athenau, 18 avril 2012 - 12:59 .

[Tangster]

Athenau wrote...

Tangster wrote...

Athenau wrote...

Wait, isn't that the old (incorrect) formula?

AFAIK the correct formula was already posted. Why'd you change it?

TPB = (shots per burst - 1) x 60/ROF + Min Refire.

Something like the saber fires less than a shot per second with the "new" formula, which isn't true.

No, the new formula accounts for refire time by calculating the maximum possible number of bursts per min, the time for a burst is considered to be the time taken for the burst itself+the min refire time.

The saber and other slow ROF weapons aren't counted as their ROF means time between shots is always greater than the refire time.

Thanks for pointing out the TPB mistake though, correcting now.

Having said that the game insists that the hurricane and tempest have burst fire...which they don't.... Applying the DPS for burst weapons to them results in a  division by 0. These two may revert to the old formula.

I'm not following you.

For the saber the TPB according to the posted formula would be :  1 * 60/80 + .75 = 1.5.  This is obviously not true.

With the old formula it was:  (1 - 1) * 60/80 + .75 = .75 which matches observation, but isn't strictly correct for semi-autos. 

From  testing with a modded the game it's actually:
TPS (time per shot) = Max[60/ROF, Min Refire time], i.e your fire rate is capped by your ROF or min refire (whichever gives you the lowest number).

Extending that to burst fire weapons the correct formula would be:
TPB = (Rounds per burst - 1) * 60/ROF + Max[Min refire time, 60/ROF].  So if your refire time is shorter than 60/ROF, it doesn't matter, which seems to be what you're saying above.  This is equivalent to the old formula in most cases, since weapons had relatively long refire times.

Arrgh tired.
Yes, I'm saying the same thing. Dunno where the div by 0 came from.

I've only used the refire values in DPS calcs for weapons where the refire is noticeable. The saber uses this calc: DPS=(damage*ROF)/60 which is the same as calcs with a burst of 1 shot every .75 secs.

I've changed the formula and all applicable values accordingly.

[Athenau]

Ok, just did a quick test.

I modded the Valkyrie with the following stats: ROF=60, Min-Refire=.5

The observed ROF was 1 round per second. This is consistent with what I posted above:

TPB = (Rounds per burst - 1) * 60/ROF + Max[Min refire time, 60/ROF]

In this case it would be (2-1)*60/60 + Max[.5, 1] = 1 + 1 = 2, which is what I saw.

I've only used the refire values in DPS calcs for weapons where the
refire is noticeable. The saber uses this calc: DPS=(damage*ROF)/60
which is the same as calcs with a burst of 1 shot every .75 secs.

Does google calc have a max function?  Because I think the above formula works for for burst and semi-auto weapons (autos ignore the refire entirely, AFAICT).  If so, there's no need to do it manually for each weapon.

Edit:  Autos don't seem to use refire at all.

Modifié par Athenau, 18 avril 2012 - 01:25 .

[Tangster]

Athenau wrote...

Ok, just did a quick test.

I modded the Valkyrie with the following stats: ROF=60, Min-Refire=.5

The observed ROF was 1 round per second. This is consistent with what I posted above:

TPB = (Rounds per burst - 1) * 60/ROF + Max[Min refire time, 60/ROF]

In this case it would be (2-1)*60/60 + Max[.5, 1] = 1 + 1 = 2, which is what I saw.

I've only used the refire values in DPS calcs for weapons where the
refire is noticeable. The saber uses this calc: DPS=(damage*ROF)/60
which is the same as calcs with a burst of 1 shot every .75 secs.

Does google calc have a max function?  Because I think the above formula works for everything (autos, burst, semi-autos).  If so, there's no need to do it manually for each weapon.

I'm using a excel sheet to do DPS, the formula does work for everything, but I'm only updating the weapons that need it.
Sadly I need to do all the edits manually anyway because of the way the google doc is set up for the damage(min level I - max levelX). Less bother than moving all the images around to add in new rows.

[lolpunch]

Just FYI, you've forgotten to edit in the Talon's weight reduction from today's changes.

[Athenau]

Tangster wrote...

Athenau wrote...

Ok, just did a quick test.

I modded the Valkyrie with the following stats: ROF=60, Min-Refire=.5

The observed ROF was 1 round per second. This is consistent with what I posted above:

TPB = (Rounds per burst - 1) * 60/ROF + Max[Min refire time, 60/ROF]

In this case it would be (2-1)*60/60 + Max[.5, 1] = 1 + 1 = 2, which is what I saw.

I've only used the refire values in DPS calcs for weapons where the
refire is noticeable. The saber uses this calc: DPS=(damage*ROF)/60
which is the same as calcs with a burst of 1 shot every .75 secs.

Does google calc have a max function?  Because I think the above formula works for everything (autos, burst, semi-autos).  If so, there's no need to do it manually for each weapon.

I'm using a excel sheet to do DPS, the formula does work for everything, but I'm only updating the weapons that need it.
Sadly I need to do all the edits manually anyway because of the way the google doc is set up for the damage(min level I - max levelX). Less bother than moving all the images around to add in new rows.

Makes sense.  Also, I edited my post above--fully automatic weapons don't seem to use the min refire at all so you'd have to do it manually anyway.

Just a heads up, the Valkyrie and Argus need updating.

Modifié par Athenau, 18 avril 2012 - 01:34 .

[Atheosis]

The Hurricane's damage range is missing a digit just so you know.

Plus looking at the damage per shot and rate of fire, there's no way you are using the same formula for the Raptor and Mattock.  Something is wrong there.  

Great work though.  This spreadsheet is starting to really come together. 

Modifié par Atheosis, 18 avril 2012 - 01:55 .

[Tangster]

Athenau wrote...
Makes sense.  Also, I edited my post above--fully automatic weapons don't seem to use the min refire at all so you'd have to do it manually anyway.

Just a heads up, the Valkyrie and Argus need updating.

Done. Also changed the look of the sheet, adding in the DPS figures via the appropriate formula for each weapon(shots per burst was hardcoded though, hope they don't change those).

Was unsure if I should keep the Valk and Argus, but I've left them in incase they add them into MP via commendation packs.

Atheosis wrote...

The Hurricane's damage range is missing a digit just so you know. 

Plus looking at the damage per shot and rate of fire, there's no way you are using the same formula for the Raptor and Mattock.  Something is wrong there.  

Fixed. Not sure what you mean by missing a digit though.

Modifié par Tangster, 18 avril 2012 - 02:57 .

[Athenau]

Some of the dps stats for the pistols and SMGs are screwed up with the latest changes (ex, phalanx, carnifex, paladin, hornet). Might want to recheck the formula in excel.

[Tangster]

Athenau wrote...

Some of the dps stats for the pistols and SMGs are screwed up with the latest changes (ex, phalanx, carnifex, paladin, hornet). Might want to recheck the formula in excel.

Me being a derp and extending the formulas to the wrong columns.(ROF=/=accuracy)
Fixed. Thanks.

Modifié par Tangster, 18 avril 2012 - 03:44 .

[lays12]

What exactly did they change today? I searched your original post but couldn't find anything on these changes.

[Tangster]

lays12 wrote...

What exactly did they change today? I searched your original post but couldn't find anything on these changes.

http://social.biowar...4143/1#11488308 

[lays12]

Tangster wrote...

lays12 wrote...

What exactly did they change today? I searched your original post but couldn't find anything on these changes.

http://social.biowar...4143/1#11488308 

Cool thanks, Tangster.

[Sabresandiego]

why does the level 1 scorpion have higher dps then the level 10 scorpion?

[Tangster]

Sabresandiego wrote...

why does the level 1 scorpion have higher dps then the level 10 scorpion?

Derp. Fixed.

[Athenau]

Looking good now. But the listed talon dps is per pellet (needs to be multiplied by 6).  Also, the Raptor isn't taking into account refire time.

Modifié par Athenau, 18 avril 2012 - 04:15 .

[Tangster]

Athenau wrote...

Looking good now. But the listed talon dps is per pellet (needs to be multiplied by 6).

I think...that's it?

[Athenau]

Apart from the Raptor I think that's it. I don't see anything obvious at least.

[Tangster]

Athenau wrote...

Apart from the Raptor I think that's it. I don't see anything obvious at least.

Ok, that's the raptor done as well using the refire formula instead of the ROF formula. I'm done for the day, g'night!

[ForTuchanka]

Thanks for updating and logging this stuff. It's a chore but it is appreciated by some!

[Atheosis]

By the way, does DPS factor in reloading or is it just DPS per magazine? Looking it over I get the impression that reload times aren't factored in. Is that right?

[PreGy]

Are you sure you cannot score headshots with the GPS? I would swear I got some of those, even a 5-headshot medal once.

[Atheosis]

PreGy wrote...

Are you sure you cannot score headshots with the GPS? I would swear I got some of those, even a 5-headshot medal once.

You are clearly remembering wrong.  The GPS is well established as one of the guns that doesn't ever register headshots (along with explosive weapons).

[Tangster]

Atheosis wrote...

By the way, does DPS factor in reloading or is it just DPS per magazine? Looking it over I get the impression that reload times aren't factored in. Is that right?

DPS per magazine.

[Atheosis]

Tangster wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

By the way, does DPS factor in reloading or is it just DPS per magazine? Looking it over I get the impression that reload times aren't factored in. Is that right?

DPS per magazine.

With low capacity guns that can be kind of misleading as they have to reload often, and often have long reload times.  You might want to consider putting in sustained DPS along with burst DPS.  Burst DPS would be the way you have it now, while sustained DPS would be based off of a minute or thirty second time span and would factor in reloading.  It would also allow you to show single shot weapon DPS as well.  It's a thought anyway.