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[JJM152]

This is just a few tips for people who are playing 2h warriors, mostly gained from either practical experience or going through the tool set.

Starting Talents

• Don't travel up the Powerful Blows tree at the start. The attack penalty is crippling early in the game when your STR score is low and you don't have a lot of attack bonuses. This is a big reason why people hate 2h warriors (missing). The extra damage you get is very poor and frankly this talent in general isn't very good (expect as a pre-requisite for Two-Handed Sweep)
• Do take the warrior ability Precise Striking early on (level 1 even). It adds a flat +10 attack and the bonus critical hit chance scales up as you level. The speed decrease is only a measly 10% (barely noticible on the already slow 2h weapons).
• Do take Indomitable as soon as possible. The ability to avoid stuns and knock backs will rapidly increase your damage potential.

Mid Term Talent Goals

• You want to try and get both of the Sunder Abilities relatively early. They actually do good damage, more on that later.
• You'll also probably want to start working your way towards Two-Weapon Sweep - this is a good ability.
• Critical Strike is a good ability, but very situational. I'll explain it later... but not too bad to have.
• The entire top warrior line sans Death-Blow are all decent. Especially Powerful and Bravery. EDIT: The 1.02 patch has changed Deathblow. It's actually awesome now - it gives back a good chunk of stamina depending on the rank of the enemy you killed. So now the entire top line is golden

Stat Allocation

• STR, STR and more STR. This will most rapidly increase your attack rating (extremely important for 2h warriors) and your Weapon/Armor/Talent requirements and damage.
• Next up is WIL. You have a lot of activated abilities that you need to use in order to keep your damage up. You will most likely have to invest in willpower starting at about level 5 or 6 up until you can get somewhere in the neighborhood of having all your sustains up and approximately 100 free stamina. Don't forget to account for the Fade bonuses and various equipment bonuses here and don't over invest. It's perfectly reasonable to get through the end of the game without ever putting a single point here if you want.
• Avoid putting points in DEX. It's better to use active abilities like Pommel Strike, Two-Handed Sweep and War Cry for damage mitigation instead of relying on avoidance.

Using Abilities

• Don't use an active ability when your character is in the middle of a big swing. It will reset the swing timer animation, causing you to lose valuable seconds over time. Time it well and hit the ability button right after your current attack connects.
• Going along with the above advice, using an ability will start a swing as soon as you hit it. Use this to your advantage.
• Both sunder attacks are actually two swings with your sword. The damage from these is obviously greater than people assume.
• Pommel strike is an instant interrupt and can stop casters easily, or any attack that has a long animation time.
• Critical Strike is an instant kill on any non boss enemy that has 20% or less life if it hits (modify your tactics accordingly)
• Two-Handed sweep has a 360 degree arc and a knock down effect. Good for doing damage as well as keeping damage off you.

Equipment

• Heavy armor is necessary because your DEX (and hence defense) will be low. Plan accordingly.
• Invest in gear that gives +STA, +WIL, +STR, +ATTACK in that order.
• Invest in gear that gives stamina regeneration (or have a caster set to automatical rejuvinate you in battle)
• You may want to avoid elemental damage runes and instead load up on Dweomer (magic resist) or the higher damage Silverite runes for damaging darkspawn.

Specializations

• Champion is great for all warriors. Cycling War Cry (fully upgraded) and Two-Handed sweep however, will be of great benefit when surrounded by enemies (just excellent mitigation as enemies pick themselves up off the ground). Rally is also great for increasing your attack rating.
• Templar is good at what it does, if you like that sort of thing.
• Berserker is only worth taking if you plan on using the Final Blow ability, which can actually be very brutal with a 2h weapon and a lot of stamina.
• Reaver is just not very good in general unfortunately.

Conclusion

The two handed warrior is very "clicky". It doesn't function well unless you take a proactive stance for both doing damage and mitigating damage and is hampered by lack of access to any sort of easy stamina regeneration in combat. Timing of ability usage is extremely critical and care must be taken at early levels to maximize your attack rating for effectiveness. Over all this specialization plays almost like a melee centric debuffer with it's combination of stuns/knock downs and enemy hampering abilities.

Modifié par JJM152, 11 décembre 2009 - 03:26 .

[Kolaris8472]

Ah, good to know about Two-Handed Sweep, thought it was only 180 degrees.



Bad to know about Critical Strike...aren't you better off with a regular attack or Mighty Blow if a non-boss enemy is down that low in health? Either of those will likely kill him anyway.

[JJM152]

Critical strike seems very underwhelming to me as well because of this limitation. If they modified it so that it was 50% on normal mobs, 35% on yellows and 10% on oranges, then I think it would be far better than it currently is.



For pure damage output, I actually find that the sunder attacks tend to be better, oddly enough.

[Gliese]

Excellent article. Some questions:



Ignoring the fact that you get two (mostly) useless talents early on with the powerful swings tree, would it not be a good idea to have two-handed sweep asap as it seems to be the most powerful talent together with indomitable?



Since heavy armour generates a higher threat level and cause an increased cost in stamina on abilities could it not be viable to go for a str and dex heavy build with lighter armour that besides being targetted less frequently would have the added benefit of an increased attack rating over the str+wil build, assuming that the stamina cost offset is great enough to balance out the lack of wil?



A perhaps related question; of what use is +dodge items in order to avoid damage?

[JJM152]

Gliese wrote...

Excellent article. Some questions:

Ignoring the fact that you get two (mostly) useless talents early on with the powerful swings tree, would it not be a good idea to have two-handed sweep asap as it seems to be the most powerful talent together with indomitable?

The earliest you can get Two-Weapon Sweep is level 10. If you want it that badly, then plan accordingly, but you won't want to make your first couple of talent purchases Mighty Blow and Punishing Blows regardless - they are really just that bad early on.

Since heavy armour generates a higher threat level and cause an increased cost in stamina on abilities could it not be viable to go for a str and dex heavy build with lighter armour that besides being targetted less frequently would have the added benefit of an increased attack rating over the str+wil build, assuming that the stamina cost offset is great enough to balance out the lack of wil?

Heavy armor doesn't actually generate "higher threat", it just sets the initial threat on an encounter (slightly). It's easy, very easy actually to steal threat if you are doing a lot of damage. Easier if you use taunt.  Assuming that your 2h warrior is not the "main tank", then the main tank character should be using taunt. This will solve 95% of any issue you have.

Also, the higher end magical plate armor offers generally great damage protection as well as statistics like STR, CON, stamina and stamina regen. If you want to roll medium armor (I recommend a chain type for the ability activation bonus) early on, then go for it, but you'll be better off in the long run with really heavy armor. Especially the first time you get overwhelmed by some nasty critters and then realize they barely dented your health bar.

A perhaps related question; of what use is +dodge items in order to avoid damage?

Viably - no use. Def buffs from party members are ok, but your best damage mitigation comes from either knocking stuff on its butt, or using the disengage talent to dump threat.

[Rainen89]

Main priority is indomitable/Two handed strength (so you do not suffer the penalty) and whatever bonuses to attack you can achieve. Other than that you just rotate your attacks. Indomitable is by far the best reason to make a Two handed warrior especially since you can ignore all physical resist and just stack mental resist. Towards the end you'll be auto attacking on nightmare for 80+. With decent speed. Massive striking is also great.

[I ReVaNChisT I]

for crit strike, i just set a tactic to use it when eney health is <25 gotten a few death knells with it but it a pretty underwhelming ability, other than that my 2 hander rocks, doin a playthrough on nightmare and only 3 injuries, usually leave him to his own devices while i micro morrigan, he still has got he most kills of my party. One question, is destroyer really worth it? now long does the enemy get a penalty to armor?

[Rainen89]

Get your character the maul from Gorim, seriously it ends up being useful. Wish it had a shorter cooldown mind you but it's great w/ berserker specialization.

[JJM152]

Rainen89 wrote...

Get your character the maul from Gorim, seriously it ends up being useful. Wish it had a shorter cooldown mind you but it's great w/ berserker specialization.

I'm actually curious about Mauls vs. Axes/Swords because they have a 125% STR damage modifier instead of 110%. It appears to me that even though they have a lower base damage, that after a certain point with excessive STR, they should do the most damage over all.

[Rainen89]

Maul is by far superior. I was using ageless until I got the maul. The armor pen with the strength the mans a truck. Especially towards the end and unarmored opponents get one-two shotted anyway.

With right stacking it's possible to reach 80ish+ strength towards the end as long as you don't waste them on willpower/dex/con (Pointless health contribution is taken care of by leveling.) Dex is okay for a few points in the beginning to avoid misses but otherwise shouldn't be focused on. WIllpower is taken care of by armor in later levels only mages should feel obliged to take any points in this and even then with mana pots this is considered a waste as well.

Modifié par Rainen89, 02 décembre 2009 - 06:42 .

[Gliese]

JJM152 wrote...

Gliese wrote...

Since heavy
armour generates a higher threat level and cause an increased cost in
stamina on abilities could it not be viable to go for a str and dex
heavy build with lighter armour that besides being targetted less
frequently would have the added benefit of an increased attack rating
over the str+wil build, assuming that the stamina cost offset is great
enough to balance out the lack of wil?

Heavy armor doesn't actually generate "higher threat", it just sets the initial threat on an encounter (slightly). It's easy, very easy
actually to steal threat if you are doing a lot of damage. Easier if
you use taunt.  Assuming that your 2h warrior is not the "main tank",
then the main tank character should be using taunt. This will solve
95% of any issue you have.

Also, the higher end magical plate
armor offers generally great damage protection as well as statistics
like STR, CON, stamina and stamina regen. If you want to roll medium
armor (I recommend a chain type for the ability activation bonus) early
on, then go for it, but you'll be better off in the long run with
really heavy armor. Especially the first time you get overwhelmed by
some nasty critters and then realize they barely dented your health bar.

Fair enough but what about the other potential benefit I mentioned, getting
a better attack rating? Do you feel that too many points need to be put
in dex to get a good defense or that the char would lack sufficient
stamina despite smaller fatigue penalties from lighter armour?

My first playthrough with a rogue I seemed to do fine in light armour and
around 40-45 dex though perhaps the use of combat stealth and evasion
makes a big difference. He had less health though bc of class. 25 from
bravery 10 at start not counting 15 from extra con and then +1 per
level. That's 50 +1 per level extra for a warrior.

Btw do you know if taunt affects all enemies or if it has a limited range? In the
latter case wearing slightly lighter armour than the tank at least
should help vs archers/mages when locked up by melee at the same time.

Modifié par Gliese, 02 décembre 2009 - 07:24 .

[Rainen89]

Dex is really useful if you can get it to forty+ but otherwise no I wouldn't worry about it for a warrior I thought twenty provided more than enough (most of which can be achieved in raw fade.) Honestly con is still pointless you get most of your health from leveling. As far as the armor, nah I used massive armor templar to be specific and the character never really had a problem with it. The magic resist was awesome as well. If you want to focus on dex I'd pick dual wield warrior great survivability and decent damage.



I still think 2h does more raw damage but has less survivabilty due to low dexterity. Taunt affects one target, threaten is wide aoe threat but it's hardly useful if you want group aggro I'd suggest champion/templar build two handed sweep combined with Smite/Warcry + superiority.



TLDR Focus on high strength that will translate to superior damage take atk from items (gloves/maul etc.) get dex to 20 ignore willpower/con and stack strength you will have a human/elf/dwarven wrecking ball. (Might I suggest dwarf their base resist is something to admire. PLus dwarf + 2h = awesome.

[Gliese]

Rainen89: Yeah I agree about putting points in con, not much use except survivability early on and I try to build for mid-late game. I meant as a warrior you get +3 con at creation compared to rogue.



Just had a look at the end stats of my Rogue and calaculated that he ended up with +110 points from level ups (he reached level 22) and from gear boosts.

Since a human warrior starts with 14 dex I'd need 26 more points to reach 40, that's less than a quarter of all the extra attribute points assuming I have a similar run this time around.

The question is, will I lack for stamina, you seem to have a very different answer to that from JJM152 since you recommend both heavy armours and no wil boost at all. Also, will it be enough to survive given lack of evasion talent and combat stealth. Also according to the missing manual, Rogues generate 20% less threat.

[konfeta]

So, there is no reason to use Mighty Blow, Powerful Swings, or Critical Strike, because they cost a crack-ton of Stamina for no honest benefit, while Sunder attacks are awesome as they cost less and give 2 attacks in span of one?

[Rainen89]

No you will not, 2h does not have nearly enough attacks to justify putting points in for stamina. Even rotating all main attacks provided you have appropriate gear. (Plenty! of stam gear in the game.) you will not need to worry about stamina deprivation. You simply do not need it. You will survive fine, some bosses will hit harder than others but you will be far from insta gibbed.



I repeat you will take aoe tanking better than a rogue but be at a slight disadvantage to someone stacking dexterity (Dual wield warrior.) In a single target fight, for that I reccomend either Alistair/Shale or a dual wield warrior as they have higher raw survivability. (Granted indomitable is worth it's weight in gold and then some.)



On the subject of rogues meh, combat stealth is a godsend there's a reason why people can solo a lot of the game as a rogue. Get overwhelmed or grabbed however and you're gone. My warriors have yet to have an issue with stamina and this is with keeping 2-3 modes up (Depending on the fight. Revenants seem to be more evasive than other creatures for example.) And rotating Critical strike/Final blow/Heavy blow/Sunder arms. (Sunder arms is deceptively good assuming your accuracy is fine it's a double hit with speed of one hit so worth a rotation.

[JJM152]

Gliese wrote...

Fair enough but what about the other potential benefit I mentioned, getting
a better attack rating? Do you feel that too many points need to be put
in dex to get a good defense or that the char would lack sufficient
stamina despite smaller fatigue penalties from lighter armour?

My first playthrough with a rogue I seemed to do fine in light armour and
around 40-45 dex though perhaps the use of combat stealth and evasion
makes a big difference. He had less health though bc of class. 25 from
bravery 10 at start not counting 15 from extra con and then +1 per
level. That's 50 +1 per level extra for a warrior.

Btw do you know if taunt affects all enemies or if it has a limited range? In the
latter case wearing slightly lighter armour than the tank at least
should help vs archers/mages when locked up by melee at the same time.

• You get the same amount of attack rating with STR as you do DEX for 2h weapons. Considering STR also increases your damage, it's probably not worth it to put points in DEX as you'd have to invest really heavily in it to get a high enough defense to make it worth while.
• I have never found a good reason for wearing anything less than massive armor for my warriors, even my dual wielding "dex" build warrior (72 str, 42 dex I believe). If anything, it just makes them that much more survibable. Fatigue penalties are somewhat lessoned for warriors with the Powerful talent and can be offset easily by equipment that increases Stamina or sta regen. Heavy armor doesn't reduce avoidance in any case.
• Taunt seems to be a wide area AoE. I have no idea exactly how far it goes out, but for most cases a good 20 feet around the person using it seems to be a good rule of thumb.

[Rainen89]

konfeta wrote...

So, there is no reason to use Mighty Blow, Powerful Swings, or Critical Strike, because they cost a crack-ton of Stamina for no honest benefit, while Sunder attacks are awesome as they cost less and give 2 attacks in span of one?

After raw fade and appropriate gear no they do not, honestly they take very little. In the beginning of the game? Yes, this is very much true and it sucks ass but it gets much better. There is a lot of stamina gear in the game and you get 4-5 points of willpower throughout raw fade combined with base and contribution from items you can afford it. Critical strike is worth it mighty blow is as well. Powerful swings is only useful once you have two handed strength. Seriously get a maul at the end you hit for 140 with critical strikes it has it's uses.

Taunt seems to me to be single target? Perhaps it's just the massive armor threat, mobs by default select the heaviest armored opponent to attack. Heavy armor is used in the beginning I've yet to see a use for heavy armor but I'm more than willing to wait to be proven wrong. My characters I reitterate do not have any stamina problems whatsoever.

Modifié par Rainen89, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:02 .

[JJM152]

Gliese wrote...

The question is, will I lack for stamina, you seem to have a very different answer to that from JJM152 since you recommend both heavy armours and no wil boost at all. Also, will it be enough to survive given lack of evasion talent and combat stealth. Also according to the missing manual, Rogues generate 20% less threat.

Our answers aren't entirely different, just predicated around different assumptions. I am asuming that you might want to invest in some willpower because you may not have the best collection of equipment, he is assuming that you can pretty much ignore it at the end game because of the plethora of gear you can find (as a warrior mind you) that has flat out +Stamina and +Stamina Regen on it.

Also, survivability  comes down to three things

• Armor worn (more damage prot the better)
• Being able to resist knock down/stuns with indomitable (most deaths occur to not being able to drink a potion!)
• Smart usage of active warrior abilities to mitigate incoming damage (two-handed sweep, pommel strike, sunder arms, war cry, disengage)

Finally, he's correct about the damage mitigation from the armor and overwhelm abilities. With a rogue wearing light armor if you get hit by an overwhelm you're pretty much dead, but a warrior wearing massive plate won't even notice the health decrease.

[Gliese]

JJM152 wrote...


You get the same amount of attack rating with STR as you do DEX for 2h weapons. Considering STR also increases your damage, it's probably not worth it to put points in DEX as you'd have to invest really heavily in it to get a high enough defense to make it worth while.

I have never found a good reason for wearing anything less than massive armor for my warriors, even my dual wielding "dex" build warrior (72 str, 42 dex I believe). If anything, it just makes them that much more survibable. Fatigue penalties are somewhat lessoned for warriors with the Powerful talent and can be offset easily by equipment that increases Stamina or sta regen. Heavy armor doesn't reduce avoidance in any case.

Taunt seems to be a wide area AoE. I have no idea exactly how far it goes out, but for most cases a good 20 feet around the person using it seems to be a good rule of thumb.

Yeah I know, I meant that if you could offset the need to boost wil by instead going for dex+ lighter armour then you could use the same strength but add dex instead of willpower which would boost your overall attack rating a good bit.

Alistair was my tank for the first game and will be so in my second game as well, he had +40% fatigue penalty at the end IIRC using the legion plate. I don't know all of the armours yet and have no wish to since I RP although I do try to plan character's well at the same time within the framework.
It would seem that if you go with light armour you'd end up with -10 or -15 % fatigue which should translate to you needing 2/3 the stamina of someone with massive armour.

Yeah that's what I've been assuming about taunt as well, as usual the lack of detailed information in-game makes it all difficult to precisely figure out though.

Oh well I might go per your suggestions or try the dex route I doubt either will be overwhelmingly difficult since I'm on hard and plan to have Wynne in the party (Morrigan being the powerhouse in the first run). I'm mostly in it for the story yet, will probably bump to nightmare when I play a mage myself and then perhaps mod it if I want a greater challenge after that.

Thanks for your help.

[Rainen89]

Yes I can understand putting some cause in the beginning you are stamina deprived. I will give you a list that I liked.

Knight commander armor best imo and amazing artwork.
Spellward from Bodahn
Corruption this is endgame but others exist sadly good helms are hard to come by.
Lifegiver best, best, best! Item ever Orzammar of the crazy dwarf.

These will give you plenty of stamina also Dragon armor from wade (Bone plate.) and a random assortment of others but like I said you will not be hurting for stamina in the end, in the beginning you'll be an auto attacking bot
One last tidbit dex is great for dual wield if you want to go with this path I would heavily suggest it if a dragon gnaws you, animal overwhelms you or you get slammed with multiple enemies and you're in light armor you will die, very fast. Best of luck..

Modifié par Rainen89, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:17 .

[JuzJoe]

No comments on the 2 additional talents from warden's keep dlc? bloodthirst makes you swing your 2h weapon significantly faster. Not only that, you gain better bonus to damage than powerful swing, high crit chance and movement speed.

Modifié par JuzJoe, 02 décembre 2009 - 10:23 .

[Rainen89]

I've yet to play Wardens keep hehe, still need to download that so I have no actual experience regarding it. Good to hear though.

[JuzJoe]

Blood thirst makes you swing significantly faster, better damage bonus than powerful swing, move faster, and bonus to crit chance as high as precise striking. It's a double-edge sword though, as you will be suffering 12 health lost every 2 sec. It shouldn't be a problem if you have Wynne in your party. Therefore I was thinking points to constitution shouldn't be ignore. What do you guys think?

Modifié par JuzJoe, 02 décembre 2009 - 11:09 .

[JJM152]

Well, I started this thread as a "simple tips" kind of thing, more of a how to get started and what you should look for from the basics perspective. Hence why I didn't go into a lot of depth about possible talent builds, especially ones that not everyone will have access too (like the Warden's Keep talents)

[Rainen89]

One point of constitution translates to I believe 5 points of health. It's just not really worth it. The health damage isn't that big of a deal. Strength is still the best route. Speaking of double edged swords was I the only one massively disappointed with Aura of Psychic Pain? Le sigh.