215 réponses à ce sujet

[WillieStyle]

I'm not just talking about saving talent points. Even early on, precise striking is rarely worth it, especially if you're not tanking and can flank the enemy. In my experience, by the time you leave Lothering, precise striking is pretty much always a dps loss. It's especially bad when you consider the multitude of ways you can boost your attack rating even early on. Why pick the only attack rating boost that comes with a 10% swing speed reduction?

[Hizoka003]

Why do so many people think that you must have dex to get hit... with Melee weapons STR = Hit plus damage Dex = Hit/def







you DO NOT NEED DEX TO HIT SOMEONE WITH A 2H WEAPON

[Gliese]

WillieStyle wrote...

I'm not just talking about saving talent points. Even early on, precise striking is rarely worth it, especially if you're not tanking and can flank the enemy. In my experience, by the time you leave Lothering, precise striking is pretty much always a dps loss. It's especially bad when you consider the multitude of ways you can boost your attack rating even early on. Why pick the only attack rating boost that comes with a 10% swing speed reduction?

There are alternatives of course but the 2handed tree is the slowest to develop I feel. You've got no start talent in it and the Mighty Blow line is pretty much useless early on afaict. Sunder Arms is of course great but then you have the golem kill talent which is useless followed by a level 10 restriction on Sunder Arms. The first 3 talents of the top line are good to have right away.
However it might be better to start of with something else than 2hand depending on your origin. Playing as a human warrior I stuck with sword+shield until I got the chasind blade in the Korcari Wilds (having unlocked some more 2hand talents. The family sword and shield you receive give fine damage and +8 attack so there's no use switching over too quickly even with just the shield bash talent. Certainly not during the origin when there's noone else to use the family heirlooms.
So, if you don't want disengage and perfect striking later on then yes it would seem kind of pointless but considering what I've written above I didn't find it wasteful.

If you look at the damage in the char/inv screen that is calculated with regard to attack speed and you add the % extra critical it would appear that your damage loss is going to be very small but that's assuming the same hit rate which you will not have as early on 80 attack instead of 70 can make a good difference.

[rumination888]

Gliese wrote...

If you look at the damage in the char/inv screen that is calculated with regard to attack speed and you add the % extra critical it would appear that your damage loss is going to be very small but that's assuming the same hit rate which you will not have as early on 80 attack instead of 70 can make a good difference.

My new 2H City Elf warrior has 80 attack without Precise Striking on(85 attack if you include his equipment).
He's currently level 5 at the Tower of Ishal with a lifetime hit rate of 88% on nightmare difficulty.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the people that think Precise Striking is good waste their stats on something other than strength.

[Alistair Crowley]

In response to the OP, I think that critical strike is still pretty nice to be used with cone of cold.

Those easy shatter kills on white enemies are kind of good in damage mitigation. Few really quick kills in the beginning of a fight saves a lot of pain (and may avoid flanking and such).

[JJM152]

rumination888 wrote...

Gliese wrote...

If you look at the damage in the char/inv screen that is calculated with regard to attack speed and you add the % extra critical it would appear that your damage loss is going to be very small but that's assuming the same hit rate which you will not have as early on 80 attack instead of 70 can make a good difference.

My new 2H City Elf warrior has 80 attack without Precise Striking on(85 attack if you include his equipment).
He's currently level 5 at the Tower of Ishal with a lifetime hit rate of 88% on nightmare difficulty.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the people that think Precise Striking is good waste their stats on something other than strength.

Precise striking being good is all mathematics. 10% lower swing speed means 10% less damage on auto attack, 10 more attack means 10% more damage over time from auto attack and not missing with special attacks. Every 2% of critical hit you get from precise striking also gives you about an extra 1% damage over time.

Is it as valuable when you have a 95% (capped) hit rate? No it's not. But starting out your attack rating, even if you pumped STR at level 1 should be around 65 or 66. Going from that to ~75 is a huge difference starting out, especially if you stick to using sunder or mighty blow early on for damage output.

It's just math, not hard to understand I hope.

[Id of Ith]

JJM152 wrote...
Precise striking being good is all mathematics. 10% lower swing speed means 10% less damage on auto attack, 10 more attack means 10% more damage over time from auto attack and not missing with special attacks. Every 2% of critical hit you get from precise striking also gives you about an extra 1% damage over time.

Is it as valuable when you have a 95% (capped) hit rate? No it's not. But starting out your attack rating, even if you pumped STR at level 1 should be around 65 or 66. Going from that to ~75 is a huge difference starting out, especially if you stick to using sunder or mighty blow early on for damage output.

It's just math, not hard to understand I hope.

Does the 10% slower swing speed not affect ability animations?

[JJM152]

Id of Ith wrote...

JJM152 wrote...
Precise striking being good is all mathematics. 10% lower swing speed means 10% less damage on auto attack, 10 more attack means 10% more damage over time from auto attack and not missing with special attacks. Every 2% of critical hit you get from precise striking also gives you about an extra 1% damage over time.

Is it as valuable when you have a 95% (capped) hit rate? No it's not. But starting out your attack rating, even if you pumped STR at level 1 should be around 65 or 66. Going from that to ~75 is a huge difference starting out, especially if you stick to using sunder or mighty blow early on for damage output.

It's just math, not hard to understand I hope.

Does the 10% slower swing speed not affect ability animations?

No it does not, nor does it affect the cool down timer on them.

[rumination888]

JJM152 wrote...

Precise striking being good is all mathematics. 10% lower swing speed means 10% less damage on auto attack, 10 more attack means 10% more damage over time from auto attack and not missing with special attacks. Every 2% of critical hit you get from precise striking also gives you about an extra 1% damage over time.

Is it as valuable when you have a 95% (capped) hit rate? No it's not. But starting out your attack rating, even if you pumped STR at level 1 should be around 65 or 66. Going from that to ~75 is a huge difference starting out, especially if you stick to using sunder or mighty blow early on for damage output.

It's just math, not hard to understand I hope.

Math in a vacuum or without taking everything into account is pointless.

Precise Striking has an upkeep of 40 stamina and has a fatigue penalty of 5%. You can't ignore that.
My lifetime hit rating was 88% at level 5. Thats only 2-3 hours into the game.
If you have the Memory Band and Collector's Edition DLC, using their tomes can bring your starting attack to 70(75 if you're a Dwarf or Human Noble).

[Id of Ith]

rumination888 wrote...

Precise Striking has an upkeep of 40 stamina and has a fatigue penalty of 5%. You can't ignore that.
My lifetime hit rating was 88% at level 5. Thats only 2-3 hours into the game.
If you have the Memory Band and Collector's Edition DLC, using their tomes can bring your starting attack to 70(75 if you're a Dwarf or Human Noble).

What do you mean by Memory Band & CE DLC? I thought Memory Band was simply +1% earned experience. Which tomes are you referring to?

[rumination888]

Fomari Tome and Grimoire of the Frozen Wastes.

[Gliese]

Yeah I'm sure items will cloud the issue further. I don't use them as I consider them imbalanced and immersion breaking. "Here son, have this awesome armour". Gee thanks dad, I thought we were poor. Yes I used the I word.

[JJM152]

Finally went through and scraped together the gold to buy the Chasind Great Maul and I can confirm that it's flat out the best 2h weapon in the game. Better than Starfang 2h even.

For people who don't know:

Chasind Great Maul (bottom of page)

Mauls, as most people are aware, are slower than a 2h sword, and give you a 125% strength bonus to damage instead of 110%. Most people however are unaware that the "damage" stat you see is really a damage over time stat, that is - the maximum damage of the weapon normalized over a 1 second spread. This is why even though it may say something like "68 damage", you often hit for 90 or more with the slower weapons.

Because of this I find that the maul is exceptional due to the fact that I am constantly spamming special attacks like sunder arms/armor and two handed sweep for extra damage. The hits from this weapon are amazing. Two weapon sweep alone is pumping out hundreds of points of damage every time it's up and I find that the most annoying thing so far is all the stupid special "kill animations" I keep getting in battle - they're slowing me down!

I really can't wait to see what kind of hits I get using this with Final Blow. drool

[Cuthlan]

It does some hefty damage. I haven't done the landsmeet yet (actually I have, but I deleted the saves and went back to before the landsmeet so I could try to explore all of the nooks and crannies), and I'm hitting in the 260's with Final Blow, not counting elemental damage.



If I had min-maxed more, or focused all on strength gear, I imagine I could hit for 300+ by the end.

[JJM152]

Cuthlan wrote...

It does some hefty damage. I haven't done the landsmeet yet (actually I have, but I deleted the saves and went back to before the landsmeet so I could try to explore all of the nooks and crannies), and I'm hitting in the 260's with Final Blow, not counting elemental damage.

If I had min-maxed more, or focused all on strength gear, I imagine I could hit for 300+ by the end.

Yeah, I've really min-maxed my guy to death. I think at level 15 I have already dumped almost every point into STR. It's sick the hits I am getting from this, even simple cheap attacks like sunder armor are putting out heaps of damage. I find that if I wait for the first auto attack, then tap the sunder button, I quickly get 200-300 pts of damage combined in about 3 seconds.  It's brutally delicious.

[Cuthlan]

Of course, if I'd min-maxed less... I'd have less stamina, so that would probably counter the increased strength as far as Final Blow is concerned.



I just wish Final Blow didn't turn off Indomitable. ><

[Siven80]

What armor do most people like to use with their 2handers ?  heavy or massive?

[Cuthlan]

Massive. No reason not to... Wade's Superior Dragonbone gives great stamina and regen.

[Kaigen42]

Siven80 wrote...

What armor do most people like to use with their 2handers ?  heavy or massive?

Medium. Assuming you're not the main tank for the party, you want to be able to spam your activated abilities for as long as possible. Wade's Superior Dragonskin Armor has bonus stamina, bonus stamina regen, low fatigue, and a huge fatigue reduction when you're wearing the set. That said, Warden's Commander Armor is a good set to tide you over until you can get the Dragonskin.

[JJM152]

Cuthlan wrote...

Massive. No reason not to... Wade's Superior Dragonbone gives great stamina and regen.

Agreed. I am using full superior dragonbone plate as well with a stam regen belt and the Chasind Great Maul (+75 stam +regen also). I have put hardly any points into will power, but with my gear on and my toggles up I still have like over 150 stamina available and a replenish rate that is mad (especially with a Rejuvinate from Wynne - great spell).

Wade's gives you the same bonus to stamina reduction that normal chain type armors do anyway, plus it seems to have some sort of innate bonus as well because my fatigue rating with my toggles up hovers around 23 percent or something and I generally run Indomitable, Powerful Blows, Precise Striking and Rally all the time.

[RamsenC]

The heavy armor is not a bad choice either, its only 8 less total armor than the massive armor sets and you get much less fatigue. Plate looks cooler though.

[JJM152]

RamsenC wrote...

The heavy armor is not a bad choice either, its only 8 less total armor than the massive armor sets and you get much less fatigue. Plate looks cooler though.

I guess the point is I don't find a compelling reason to use anything lower than the massive because the stamina regen is so good anyway.

[JJM152]

I edited the original topic to reflect the fact that the 1.02 patch has turned Deathblow into a really, really good talent now. It seems to grant a stamina return based on the rank of the enemy you killed, and it's very substantial!

[Darth_Shizz]

JJM152 wrote...

I edited the original topic to reflect the fact that the 1.02 patch has turned Deathblow into a really, really good talent now. It seems to grant a stamina return based on the rank of the enemy you killed, and it's very substantial!

I didn't even realise until I read it If only they mentioned it in the patch notes...guess I know what I'll be picking up next level ;p

[Closet Gamer]

All Strength, points elsewhere are a complete waste.

Chasind Great Maul (+75 Stamina), Executioner's Helm (+25 Stamina), Warden Commander Set (+50 Stamina +1 Regen, or Wade's Set if you don't have DLC) and the Stamina you get from leveling are more than sufficient.

Something you've seemed to have left out is the fact Two-Handed Strength increases your Armor Penetration by 25% in addition to reducing the Attack/Defense penalty by 5 when using Powerful Swings. This makes Powerful Swings amazing, especially considering its low Upkeep cost.

For those interested in tooltips that better explain what all abilities do I recommend this
http://social.biowar...m/project/1117/

Precise Striking and Bravery are both very powerful once you actually see the math behind them. Precise Striking giving something like 12.5% crit and +10 attack at level 25, Bravery +3 Physical/Mental Resists, +1 Damage and +3.5% (with an added bonus based on Clevel) per every enemy over two you are facing. Having a 30%+ crit rate at higher levels is devastating, and is the only real reason you take Precise Striking.

Telekinetic Weapons and 2x GM Silverite Runes and 1x GM Hale rune will cause massive damage to any armored foe, cleave darkspawn in two and make sure you never receive attack/defense debuffs due to your enormously high Physical Resistance.

Haste should always be used by your mage if no Momentum users are present. Haste gives +30% movement speed, +25% melee attack speed, +20% ranged attack speed, -5 attack at the measly cost of -3.0 mana regen and upkeep.

Also, are you certain Two-Handed Sweep is a 360 degree attack? I don't recall hitting enemies behind near the flank.

Modifié par Closet Gamer, 11 décembre 2009 - 04:11 .