215 réponses à ce sujet

[beancounter501]

There are some good tips here, but even so I am really struggling with my 2H character.  Granted I am only level 8 at the moment, but still he seems - weak.

Just for fun I downloaded the respec mod and changed my character to a dual weld character and replayed some of the earlier battles.  I hate to say it, but with the exact same party the dual weld character was far better then the 2H.  And that was the first time I had ever played a dual weld character, I usually never play dual welds in any game.

There are just too many junk talents in the 2H tree.  Critical Strike, Destroyer, Shattering Blows, Powerful Swings, Two Hand Strength are all junk.  Even stunning blows is blah.  Wow a chance to stun on a critical hit.  The only good ones are the two sunders, indomintable (really good) and two hand sweep.

The dual weld line has a lot of really good talents.  Momentum, Sweep, Whirlwind are all excellent.  And none of the talents are pure junk like Powerful Swings or Destroyer.

The manual said a 2H warrior would get 150% strength bonus.  I think that is needed to give the poor 2H a boost in power.

[Tserge]

MegaMass_2000 wrote...

Putting points in to the health is good or bad, and how much comparing to STR and Will?

The general consensus is that the health bonuses from leveling up is sufficient, unless you are tanking with the 2H warrior.

Mostly strength, splash a few points to willpower.

[Id of Ith]

What are your favored specializations for 2H Warriors? I will be taking Berserker as my first, but I am unsure what to do with my second. Champion would give me the 1 point of CUN needed to get max Coercion (including Fade points) and additional knockdown through the shout ability. Is the Reaver stuff more useful for 2H? I'll be using Alistair as my tank so he may wind up going Champion for his level 14 point, so I'm not sure the redundancy would be good.

[Rainen89]

You'll hear different stories, I still prefer templar/champion because it gives me more control, I find final blow to be a tad over-rated given the cost of the ability. No matter what you'd be hard pressed to find a second specialization better than champion. Superiority war cry is just pure amazing.



For those wanting to play 2h, you will want a mage trust me it's only a struggle in the beginning though and gets better soon as you hit two treaties + urn. I reccomend doing Redcliffe + urn + tower as it's the shortest and fastest way to get it. You can however do it whichever way you prefer. Once you get Chasind Great Maul you will be loving 2h warrior.

[Id of Ith]

Rainen89 wrote...

You'll hear different stories, I still prefer templar/champion because it gives me more control, I find final blow to be a tad over-rated given the cost of the ability. No matter what you'd be hard pressed to find a second specialization better than champion. Superiority war cry is just pure amazing.

For those wanting to play 2h, you will want a mage trust me it's only a struggle in the beginning though and gets better soon as you hit two treaties + urn. I reccomend doing Redcliffe + urn + tower as it's the shortest and fastest way to get it. You can however do it whichever way you prefer. Once you get Chasind Great Maul you will be loving 2h warrior.

I was thinking of taking Champion as my second over Reaver simply because of the Wary Cry buffs. I also don't think Reaver would fit very well with my character's RP this time around, as if I do a romance path it would be with Leliana and he will be a fairly honorable guy. Knowing how you unlock Reaver the first time, I don't think it quite fits with that game plan.

[JJM152]

Reaver, I feel, is really bad. The only thing it has going for it really is the limited crowd control through the fear spell, which is pretty useless if you're running a full group.



You are right about War Cry... it is freaking awesome, so Champion is pretty much a must.... so yeah it does come down to Templar Vs. Berserker. Templar is probably more useful over all than Berserker...

[Id of Ith]

JJM152 wrote...

Reaver, I feel, is really bad. The only thing it has going for it really is the limited crowd control through the fear spell, which is pretty useless if you're running a full group.

You are right about War Cry... it is freaking awesome, so Champion is pretty much a must.... so yeah it does come down to Templar Vs. Berserker. Templar is probably more useful over all than Berserker...

Well... now that Deathblow is fixed, I like the final Berserker skill much more. Plus, he's a dwarf so RP wise it makes a lot more sense.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Id of Ith wrote...


Well... now that Deathblow is fixed, I like the final Berserker skill much more. Plus, he's a dwarf so RP wise it makes a lot more sense.

Still don't like final blow since using it turns off Berserk and Indominable and put them on cool down.

[JJM152]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Id of Ith wrote...


Well... now that Deathblow is fixed, I like the final Berserker skill much more. Plus, he's a dwarf so RP wise it makes a lot more sense.

Still don't like final blow since using it turns off Berserk and Indominable and put them on cool down.

Sadly, this.

When I get done with my warrior mod this is going to be one of the things I sneak into it. Final Blow isn't going to detoggle your modals that don't drain stamina.

[Rainen89]

Even if it wouldn't cancel your abilities I've yet to hit for more than 260+ with it, frankly sunder arms/armor does almost as much and doesn't burn every last drop of mana. Templar gives survivability and an aoe knockdown is nothing to sneeze at. Granted my perspective is from 360 user I've yet to play the PC version so no mods for me. However, I would need more than one big hit to justify almost complete downtime even for a finishing ability.

[Id of Ith]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Id of Ith wrote...


Well... now that Deathblow is fixed, I like the final Berserker skill much more. Plus, he's a dwarf so RP wise it makes a lot more sense.

Still don't like final blow since using it turns off Berserk and Indominable and put them on cool down.

Doesn't bug me too much. A lot of those modals have much shorter CDs now, so it seems fair that I would be winded for a short time. I do think the damage modifier per point of stamina should be higher, though. I generally use it towards the end, which is more of the purpose of it I think. You have Mighty Blow and Critical Strike to fill in the earlier portions of combat (I actually very much like it for the purpose of a finisher in case you don't get the low health gib from Critical Strike).

[Nifell]

well then, a simple question for two-handed users....do the weps scale down in size for dwarves?

[JJM152]

Nifell wrote...

well then, a simple question for two-handed users....do the weps scale down in size for dwarves?

Nope.

[Jsmith0730]

What's the story with Perfect Striking? I've seen people say to absolutely get it for a 2Her but don't see much else on it. So is it worth getting or not?

[sinosleep]

You can get it, but it's mostly only really applicable for bosses if you've been pumping str to get your damage and hit rate up and are using precise striking. I rarely get perfect striking and usually achieve and maintain a 90% hitrate by around level 10. I also think that getting maxing the 2h trees and getting deathblow is more important so I usually leave perfect striking as one of the last talents to get. Again, nothing wrong with it, and I'm sure it helps a lot on bosses, I just think other talents are more essential.

[Jsmith0730]

Cool, one more question to that end: if I do pick up precise striking, how often should I use it? Just when I feel I need it or is there a general point when it just becomes useless?

[JJM152]

Jsmith0730 wrote...

Cool, one more question to that end: if I do pick up precise striking, how often should I use it? Just when I feel I need it or is there a general point when it just becomes useless?

I think people are confusing Precise Striking with Perfect Striking.

Precise Striking is the buff available at level 1 that gives you an automatic +10% to hit and +2.5% crit + 0.5 crit/level at the cost of 10% weapon speed. It's really good when you first start the game due to the hit bonus.

Perfect Striking is a massive +attack buff of short duration that you get later in the game (minimum level 12 I believe).

Precise Striking is absolutely worth getting at level 1. Absolutely. Perfect Striking is generally not very useful except against a few encounters because by the time you get it, if you follow this guide, your STR and attack scores should be really high already.

[Madax132]

JJM152 wrote...
This is just a few tips for people who are playing 2h warriors, mostly gained from either practical experience or going through the tool set.

Starting Talents

• Don't travel up the Powerful Blows tree at the start. The attack penalty is crippling early in the game when your STR score is low and you don't have a lot of attack bonuses. This is a big reason why people hate 2h warriors (missing). The extra damage you get is very poor and frankly this talent in general isn't very good (expect as a pre-requisite for Two-Handed Sweep)
  
  Do take the warrior ability Precise Striking early on (level 1 even). It adds a flat +10 attack and the bonus critical hit chance scales up as you level. The speed decrease is only a measly 10% (barely noticible on the already slow 2h weapons).
  
• Do take Indomitable as soon as possible. The ability to avoid stuns and knock backs will rapidly increase your damage potential.

Mid Term Talent Goals

• You want to try and get both of the Sunder Abilities relatively early. They actually do good damage, more on that later.
• You'll also probably want to start working your way towards Two-Weapon Sweep - this is a good ability.
• Critical Strike is a good ability, but very situational. I'll explain it later... but not too bad to have.
  The entire top warrior line sans Death-Blow are all decent. Especially Powerful and Bravery. EDIT: The 1.02 patch has changed Deathblow. It's actually awesome now - it gives back a good chunk of stamina depending on the rank of the enemy you killed. So now the entire top line is golden

Stat Allocation

• STR, STR and more STR. This will most rapidly increase your attack rating (extremely important for 2h warriors) and your Weapon/Armor/Talent requirements and damage.
• Next up is WIL. You have a lot of activated abilities that you need to use in order to keep your damage up. You will most likely have to invest in willpower starting at about level 5 or 6 up until you can get somewhere in the neighborhood of having all your sustains up and approximately 100 free stamina. Don't forget to account for the Fade bonuses and various equipment bonuses here and don't over invest. It's perfectly reasonable to get through the end of the game without ever putting a single point here if you want.
• Avoid putting points in DEX. It's better to use active abilities like Pommel Strike, Two-Handed Sweep and War Cry for damage mitigation instead of relying on avoidance.

Using Abilities

• Don't use an active ability when your character is in the middle of a big swing. It will reset the swing timer animation, causing you to lose valuable seconds over time. Time it well and hit the ability button right after your current attack connects.
• Going along with the above advice, using an ability will start a swing as soon as you hit it. Use this to your advantage.
• Both sunder attacks are actually two swings with your sword. The damage from these is obviously greater than people assume.
• Pommel strike is an instant interrupt and can stop casters easily, or any attack that has a long animation time.
• Critical Strike is an instant kill on any non boss enemy that has 20% or less life if it hits (modify your tactics accordingly)
• Two-Handed sweep has a 360 degree arc and a knock down effect. Good for doing damage as well as keeping damage off you.

Equipment

• Heavy armor is necessary because your DEX (and hence defense) will be low. Plan accordingly.
• Invest in gear that gives +STA, +WIL, +STR, +ATTACK in that order.
• Invest in gear that gives stamina regeneration (or have a caster set to automatical rejuvinate you in battle)
• You may want to avoid elemental damage runes and instead load up on Dweomer (magic resist) or the higher damage Silverite runes for damaging darkspawn.

Specializations

• Champion is great for all warriors. Cycling War Cry (fully upgraded) and Two-Handed sweep however, will be of great benefit when surrounded by enemies (just excellent mitigation as enemies pick themselves up off the ground). Rally is also great for increasing your attack rating.
• Templar is good at what it does, if you like that sort of thing.
• Berserker is only worth taking if you plan on using the Final Blow ability, which can actually be very brutal with a 2h weapon and a lot of stamina.
• Reaver is just not very good in general unfortunately.

Conclusion

The two handed warrior is very "clicky". It doesn't function well unless you take a proactive stance for both doing damage and mitigating damage and is hampered by lack of access to any sort of easy stamina regeneration in combat. Timing of ability usage is extremely critical and care must be taken at early levels to maximize your attack rating for effectiveness. Over all this specialization plays almost like a melee centric debuffer with it's combination of stuns/knock downs and enemy hampering abilities.

I agree with almost everything you said so before I state my one criticism let me first say that I started off my two hander which is the first character I have beaten the game with and throroughly enjoyed by following your the bullets.

Now the thing I disagree with you on is that the sunder abilities do more damage than the critical strike and mighty blow.

For early in the game critical strike and mighty blow give you an invaluable bonus to attack that almost assures you will hit which makes the difference as when I was a low level pumping everything into strength to get high attack I still missed often on one of the sunder attacks and sometimes even both. Critical strike and mighty blow are also both critical hits so if you miss even one attack you're doing much more damage with mightly blow or critical strike.

Then later in game where you get some nice massive armor and good acessories you can get up to up to 30% more damage from criticals from items which MB and CS are automatically and finally the high tier two handed talents destroy and stunning blows only work for criticals

stunning blows gives a 50% chance to stun a opponent for 1.5-4 seconds on a critical and I can give credit to the fact that this is the correct percentage as it happened quite often

and destroyer takes away 5 armor for 3 seconds on every critical.

Besides that great post and I suggest everyone follow it to the letter with the exception I mentioned.

[Yrkoon]

^Yay!   You just ressurected an eight-month old thread. I think that's the record here. Granted, this is the only 2-handed warrior thread that's ever been done so I guess it's all good. . Oh wait! LOL

By the way:

Now the thing I disagree with you on is that the sunder abilities do more damage than the critical strike and mighty blow.

Where did he say that?

And You can't really compare the sunders with mighty blow/chritical strike because they're completely different animals. And lets not forget that unlike Mighty Blow and critical strike, the sunders are debuffs, making them useful even beyond their double hit (thus double damage) potential. And if that's not enough, you can score a critical with one or both of the hits within a sunder thus stunning...

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 août 2010 - 02:45 .

[beancounter501]

LOL, it is funny to see my earlier self complaining about 2 Hand! Now it is my favorite warrior class.



And Yrkoon is dead on about Sunders vs Mighty Blow. Also Mighty Blow is better in every way over Critical Strike. Faster cooldown, cheaper stamina and +10 to attack.

[Madax132]

Yrkoon wrote...

^Yay!   You just ressurected an eight-month old thread. I think that's the record here. Granted, this is the only 2-handed warrior thread that's ever been done so I guess it's all good. . Oh wait! LOL

By the way:

Now the thing I disagree with you on is that the sunder abilities do more damage than the critical strike and mighty blow.

Where did he say that?

And You can't really compare the sunders with mighty blow/chritical strike because they're completely different animals. And lets not forget that unlike Mighty Blow and critical strike, the sunders are debuffs, making them useful even beyond their double hit (thus double damage) potential. And if that's not enough, you can score a critical with one or both of the hits within a sunder thus stunning...

You can score a critical but I'm focusing on the Wills not the cans

mighty blow gives a penalty to movement speed and as I've said it has the guarenteed debuffs, it's also the only attack that can land a hit when you have misdirection hex on IE the the entire haven ruin and several parts in the game with spellcasters.

[Yrkoon]

Madax132 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

^Yay!   You just ressurected an eight-month old thread. I think that's the record here. Granted, this is the only 2-handed warrior thread that's ever been done so I guess it's all good. . Oh wait! LOL

By the way:

Now the thing I disagree with you on is that the sunder abilities do more damage than the critical strike and mighty blow.

Where did he say that?

And You can't really compare the sunders with mighty blow/chritical strike because they're completely different animals. And lets not forget that unlike Mighty Blow and critical strike, the sunders are debuffs, making them useful even beyond their double hit (thus double damage) potential. And if that's not enough, you can score a critical with one or both of the hits within a sunder thus stunning...

You can score a critical but I'm focusing on the Wills not the cans

Alright...  we can focus on just  Wills, and discard all the cans.   Take Mighty Blow, for instance. while a critical is guaranteed, a stun isn't. so lets forget the stun.   And that leads us back to the damage question.   The only guarantee that Mighty Blow has is  that it WILL score a critical hit if it lands.  But what's a critical hit?    Answer:  double normal damage.  And what do the sunders guarantee?  That's right:  2 normal hits!

That makes them equal on the damage, doesn't it.    But  the benefits of sunder's don't end there.  Sunder arms also reduces the victim's attack rating by 15 points.  Sunder Armor reduces the victim's armor score by 20 points.

Madax132 wrote...
mighty blow gives a penalty to movement speed and as I've said it has the guarenteed debuffs,

Not once you get stunning blows it doesn't.  The movement speed debuff simply doesn't happen anymore.

 

Madax132 wrote...
it's also the only attack that can land a hit when you have misdirection hex on

What?   No it doesn't.   

Modifié par Yrkoon, 06 août 2010 - 12:33 .

[Madax132]

Yrkoon wrote...

Madax132 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

^Yay!   You just ressurected an eight-month old thread. I think that's the record here. Granted, this is the only 2-handed warrior thread that's ever been done so I guess it's all good. . Oh wait! LOL

By the way:

Now the thing I disagree with you on is that the sunder abilities do more damage than the critical strike and mighty blow.

Where did he say that?

And You can't really compare the sunders with mighty blow/chritical strike because they're completely different animals. And lets not forget that unlike Mighty Blow and critical strike, the sunders are debuffs, making them useful even beyond their double hit (thus double damage) potential. And if that's not enough, you can score a critical with one or both of the hits within a sunder thus stunning...

You can score a critical but I'm focusing on the Wills not the cans

Alright...  we can focus on just  Wills, and discard all the cans.   Take Mighty Blow, for instance. while a critical is guaranteed, a stun isn't. so lets forget the stun.   And that leads us back to the damage question.   The only guarantee that Mighty Blow has is  that it WILL score a critical hit if it lands.  But what's a critical hit?    Answer:  double normal damage.  And what do the sunders guarantee?  That's right:  2 normal hits!

That makes them equal on the damage, doesn't it.    But  the benefits of sunder's don't end there.  Sunder arms also reduces the victim's attack rating by 15 points.  Sunder Armor reduces the victim's armor score by 20 points.

Madax132 wrote...
mighty blow gives a penalty to movement speed and as I've said it has the guarenteed debuffs,

Not once you get stunning blows it doesn't.  The movement speed debuff simply doesn't happen anymore.

 

Madax132 wrote...
it's also the only attack that can land a hit when you have misdirection hex on

What?   No it doesn't.   

You left out the part that is guarenteed to take away 5 armor on criticals but consider half your replies are simply saying your wrong with nothing backing it up I'm not suprised

While it is a can that it will stun it is a 50% chance and since you have two auto criticals there you go

I said it isn't very likely because you have a small base chance of scoring a critical hit lets say for a sword that is a max tier with about 5 percent chance for criticals

you have two hits with no flat attack bonus from the sunder abilities as with mighty blow and critical strike so assuming that they both hit you get a 10 percent chance to get a critical, then off 1 critical you get a 50% chance to stun so every time you do a sunder ability you get roughly a 5 percent chance to get a critical and thus stun with 1 one of them and a 2.5 percent chance on both although stuns and armor penalties for passives abilities don't stack.

mighty blow and critical strike are guarenteed criticals


You're reply to what I said about misdirection hex is ignorant at best

if you don't want to read the next four blocks or text here's the short version I am right, you are wrong

misdirections hex makes it so that only critical hits land on an enemy but they are converted to regular hits and any non critical hit would be a miss

so because of this critical strike and mighty blow will still hit where as the sunder attacks won't be likely to hit while misdirection hex is on and it lasts around 20 seconds which is about the time it takes for a a small battle and this is assuming there is only one mage and they don't re cast it

let me put it this way, when misdirection hex is on your character all your hits will be misses and all criticals will be regular hits.

so with a sunder attack against the caster you will have a 5% chance to hit with 1 normal hit and a 2.5% chance to hit with 2 normal hits which will likely kill a mage, using both you have a 10% chance to hit the mage, considering this it's unlikely that you will get any hits in before the battle is over and if you use mighty blow and critical strike which would both be normal hits against the caster and two hits from my two hander kills any mage so there you have it. As I have said there are frequent occasions of casters who put this on your main character, it isn't a large point but I find it annoying that you made such a terse remark with no explanation, and besides I am bored anyway.