251 réponses à ce sujet

[Lozark]

This is brilliantly done. Linking it to all my friends.

[ScriptDiver]

Shameless bump, everyone should watch this - Bioware too! =)

[FedericoV]

Congratualtion for the great work: I watched it yesterday and it's the best piece on the web about ME3 endings.

[Madmoe77]

Favorited this video on my YT account. It really is worth the 40 minutes.

[Iwillbeback]

Great video, I watched it yesterday.
Very well done.

[Butcher_of_Torfan]

Nicely done. Like the Redletter reviews, it lays out the core problems, and central concepts in a clear, concise manner, with enough humor to keep the rage down. More people need to take a look at this.

[Necrotron]

I've watched this twice already.

[SpiffsGhost]

Very impressive! I thoroughly enjoyed this vid, and think it lays out the arguments concisely. As stated in the vid, "Keep it Simple!"

-Spiff

[Poison_Berrie]

I enjoyed the video a lot.
You clearly put forward what's wrong with the ending and added a bit of humor.

[Ellof]

Good job one the video. Very thorough and interesting.

[Jimbot256]

Really great video. It pretty much explains, in depth, all the reasons why I found the ending to be really disappointing. It was quite entertaining and didn't feel like it was 39 minutes long.

[Flyprdu]

If there was anything that I was able to glean from it...  it's that you were able to articulate clearly why things were so upsetting in 2 words:

Details matter.

You're exactly right.  They threw the rules of the Mass Effect universe out the window and without explanation force fed an ending down the gamers' throats.  So many details were left behind in the wake of the ending...  I feel that we could spend at least another 3 to 5 hours on Earth -- to really flush out the battle and show the significance of it all.

It was too short on experience and detail.  And those details matter.

[BeLana]

I stand in awe...one video to summarize all the negative about the endings...be nice if it made it around the 'cubes' at Bioware...

[Harorrd]

That was the best 39 minutes of my life, entertaining and funny

[pomrink]

i love this video, but wuts redlettermedia

[Tombfyre09]

[sean10mm]

Funny how Bioware reps hide from all the substantive critiques and only post in response to softballs.

[Majical]

The part about Character focus I felt was especially relevant. Even if they are not directly involved in the ending, we need to know what happens to them. They are the best thing about the game, and I care about them more than any other fictional character.

[Vade Katana]

I suport this. Well done.

Hold the line lads!

[Harorrd]

Exelent...

Modifié par Harorrd, 31 mars 2012 - 09:40 .

[Galiredon]

Wow, that review was spot on. I really hope Bioware take this to heart and watch this.

[Verias]

I watched this last night thanks to a link from a friend, and I have to say, excellently well put. Each portion of your deconstruction applies collectively to the whole that is the broken ending.

Now, specifically to yougottawanna and anyone who cares to ponder this a little further.
I deal in writing and discuss the principles of creative writing at length with professors and professionals because I strive to improve as a writer on my own.

That being said, the resounding first rule I've always heard is to know your audience. If, at any time you have to talk down to the audience or, for the sake of explaining some twist or turn in the story by separating the audience from all the connective elements (in Mass Effect, that's the personal relationships built with the other characters) in order to tell the character "This is why you should be okay with this". then you've done something horribly wrong.

Even with twist endings, upon reviewing the material presented, there is always concrete, irrefutable evidence that was subtly introduced to support the twist. In ME3's case, this was not what happened. All information leading up to the Catalyst is pretty concretely placed. There's no alternate question leading to "what if the Citadel isn't the catalyst?" At no point are we given the slightest support in this sudden change. We're quietly separated from all other elements of the story that "matter" (all the character interaction, all the choices) and we're told "This is how it has to be. And here's why you should be fine with it."

In a very practical sense, it doesn't and cannot work. Suddenly, we're being talked down to, and we lose our emotional ties to the story. Without delving into conjecture over the ending, it is, as stated in the video, riddled with plotholes and new, completely nonsensical questions that were never necessary to the narrative as a whole.

Edit 1:
A note about epilogues and prologues.
These are story elements that are usually add-ons, but unecessary to plot resolution.
The prologue acts as a tool to place the setting. Though not necessary, ME has used this in each game to give us an idea of the universe we've stepped into, From ME1's introduction of Shepard with overheard voices, to ME2's opening, showing the fate of the Normandy, introducing the Collector ship as the threat for the game, all the way down to ME3's Earth opening.
Each of these sets the tone for the game, showing us what we're up against, and how it matters to us, as the player.
The epilogue's job is the inverse, to clear the stage at the end, to tie up the loose threads. In some ways it's a reminder of all the connections we had within the story, by showing us where things have gone since.
In ME1, we have the Alliance on the Citadel, rescuing your squad, sifting the rubble, then leading up to the Council choices for the next game. It doesn't forsake that our interest in the story revolves around the characters.
ME2 follows this pattern, taking us to TIM, discussing our choice on what to do with the Collector base, and then showing us the results of what had transpired in the climax, reminding us, once again, why we're invested. That these squadmates who survived the ordeal, matter.
In ME3, we get brief flashes of elements that don't fit within the story, and then there's the Stargazer epilogue. Don't get me wrong, it's not that it's bad, but it forsakes the aforementioned elements. Who is this guy talking? Who is the kid? There's speculation that it could be Joker, and who knows, could be, but we're not explicitly told this, therefore, who he is, and who the kid is, don't matter. We aren't invested in these characters or what they're doing.

On a final note: Casey Hudson's letter.
I mentioned this in a post elsewhere on the forums, but he talked about knowing that the ending had to be bittersweet. The only problem I see with this is that the mentality isn't backed up by the presentation of prior evidence. In every game up to this point, we had been given the tools, provided we were willing to put forth the effort, to minimize the losses we took, and ultimately achieve a happier ending, even if only for a brief period. To shoehorn us into a small box by removing those tools at the last minute is trite, and goes completely against the original intent, focus, and incentive given to us in the game, as players.

Also, Bump

Modifié par Verias, 01 avril 2012 - 10:37 .

[ardensia]

Verias wrote...

A bunch of good stuff on story format.

Also, Bump

This is more or less what made me originally revise my stance on the endings. When you broke it down, and cast aside plot holes, unanswered questions, and emotional backlash, you were left with something that simply isn't good storytelling. They wanted the game to be about the conflict between synthetics and organics? So it is. But introducing a new character at the very end to prettymuch tell you that, and to have them have you make that decision without providing you with any solid ties to the storylines of your supporting characters, is just a bad way to tell a story. And don't even get me started on making it all a dream sequence. You only get to get away with that if you're Lewis Carroll and writing a thinly-veiled political satire... and even then, it's up for debate.

I had initially thought the ending was too subtle, but really, it's too heavy-handed. Like you said, know your audience. This isn't just the first rule of writing. It's one of the top rules in theatre, too (right up there with "The show must go on"). And it doesn't just apply to fiction, but to journalism, advertising, television.... Anywhere, really, where you're trying to convey an idea, it can be applied. Having a character spell out your goal like that, especially at the very end, is kind of demeaning in fiction, both to the audience and the storyteller. Sure, some of the audience isn't going to get it, or will grasp onto something else entirely, or anywhere in between. But you have to trust that the people who are meant to are going to find your themes without you having to point to them and go, "The theme is here!" If you're having to spell things out for them, you didn't do your job.

Likewise, if upwards of 80% of your audience is getting to the end and going, "WTF?" you utterly failed somewhere.

But as pointed out in the video, Bioware does have the skills to end this well. If they are committed to making any changes whatsoever, they can put this all together somehow that... while it won't erase the memory of the previous ending, might give the rest of us something worth praising.

Modifié par ardensia, 02 avril 2012 - 10:33 .

[Dreogan]

May the memory of this thread never die.