136 réponses à ce sujet

[robarcool]

Give the soldier one ammo power and it should be choosable which ammo power you want. Once chosen, it could be evolved in that one branch.

[lordshenlong]

i have to disagree, my main class is human soldier. I never use cover but still manage to survive every game no matter how hard it is, i don't even use adrenaline, i spent my points on all the other abilities.

I for one am a huge fan of concussive shot and frag grenades.

as for weapons, i use the raptor and the geth shotgun (tho i use them on like every class i play) ;p

Modifié par lordshenlong, 28 mars 2012 - 03:32 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Only a Sabre X will help

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Only a Sabre X will help

The Sabre is terrible, you're better off with a carnfiex or a Paladin or a sniper. 

[GideonX7]

I suppose I'm one of the few people who run soldier class on gold often...with the right build I can pull off 1st-2nd almost every time (Battlefield solider/M-99 w lvl V armor piercer/ ext mag V or barrel); however, as compared to when I run an Asari adept or Salarian Eng I can crush my soldier's score easily there is no contest.

The soldier class is really the underdog of the classes... It is missing way too much armor. It seem sheilds/heath is based on race and not class, which is a mistake. Soldiers should have some of the best health/shields to be able to do their job right. The standard human soldier is the worst with a max of 800 health/shield its just sad and their grenades are far too weak compare to cluster damage, its skills are just not strong enough.

Simply put for the most part soldiers are the lest useful of all classes and since they have no good way to drain shields or stun enemies or easily line up shots or do hacks/res like (stasis / energy drain/ overload / cloak) can they have to be more exposed when attacking which means their crappy little health and shields will get chewed up in under 1 second on Gold of exposed fire (not an exaggeration).

To fix them they need their place as the highest damage dealers with all weapons and they need way more shields. My Suggestions:

-Solider fitness give large bones to shields and shield regeneration time drop the standard melee damage boots except for the Krogen solider.

-Since Adrenaline no longer can slow time it should have 100% damage boost for all weapons for its duration and give it large shield upgrades along with damage (Like marksmen at lvl 6 you get both stability and fire rate)

With those update a solider while under Adrenaline rush they could do high damage and have heavy shields to withstand some fire which would make them the best at what they do...Kill stuff with weapons in an all out fire fight. If they do make updates.... please ensure they are good enough to still be useful on Gold or it is just a waist.

[astheoceansblue]

Atheosis wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Serkevan wrote...

When my mates and I play gold, we always have a soldier in our team, and they do well. Basically, we have a) a Turian Soldier with only Viper headshotting the crap out of every moving thing thanks to marksman and that insane stability and forcing people out of cover with a 3.5s proxy mine.

Or a BF3 soldier with Crusader and Vindicator. That guy is scary.

A good player with a decent build and loadout can do okay with a Soldier on Gold (I play one from time to time on Gold and never seem to have a problem helping the team beat the match).  They just won't be at the top of the scoreboard.  In fact, they'll almost certainly be at the bottom assuming their teammates are any good.  Not that score strictly equates to contribution to the team or anything.   They just lack the raw power of certain other classes, that's all.

It's Human soldier's who are Gimped.

Turian are great. I know people say this a lot, but I can consistently top the board on gold with the build in my sig. Feel free to bring an Adept or Infiltrator to a game with me to test this out.

I wouldn't call them "great" per se, but they are a bit better overall.

If you can hit the majority of your headahots, they're great. They take a lot more effort to do well with than adept or Infiltrator, but I can out do both of those classes with my TS if i'm focused.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 28 mars 2012 - 06:22 .

[Lionheartwolf]

if you can hit the majority of your targets in the head with any class you can say the same exact thing. ultimately this is a shooting game and that is what you are going to be doing most of the time. (its the reason why everybody gets a gun) the problem is there is nothing exclusive to the soldier that makes them stand out.

[Mazandus]

The human soldier is undeniably the worst class in MP. I'm sure truly skilled players have won gold matches as one, just as truly skilled players have succeeded in other video games with other last tier classes/weapons/whatever. So anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Look at the numbers, the power list, the way enemies scale in health/dmg as the difficulty is increased, and yes, anything a Human Soldier can do, an Human Infiltrator can do better. (Except apply ammo defbuff, but the effectiveness of that is still undecided considering the risk of doing so in gold.)

So what can be done to help the soldier? The first thing that naturally springs to mind is some kind of buff to the automatic weapons, or really any weapon that isn't a sniper or heavy pistol. As it stands now most of the weapons in MP are underwhelming to say the least, and the soldier, having to rely more heavily on those weapons, would clearly benefit. Yes, the soldier can also equip pistols and sniper rifles, but the class does not receive the benefits of truly embracing a weapon type like Infils and sniper rifles with their cloak damage, or adepts and pistols with the light weight reducing their cooldowns. Yes AS can do damage with a sniper shot, but TC can do more. Yes a pistol will allow more CS spam, but Throw is better.

The second problem with soldiers is their lack of "tankability." Evasion, deception, and crowd control are the 3 routes of survivability in silver/gold. Turian and Krogan soldiers have none of those characteristics, and while the human retains the ability to roll around, it is not enough. The health and shield boost that even Krogan Soldiers benefit from, simply pales in comparison to the sheer amount of damage even a low level assault trooper or cannibal can do in a very short amount of time, this is why decoy, tactical cloak, stasis bubbles, etc, are so high in demand. The best policy is to evade and LOS enemies, not fire automatic weapons from cover as you advance. Until this is remedied, soldiers will not be welcome on gold, by most knowledgeable parties.

The third issue, which also ties into the 1st issue, is the RNG casino. Since all weapons, attachments, ammo boxes, etc are wholly tied to the randomizer, the soldier is even further limited by atrocious (yes, it is atrocious) weapon balance as the player can only equip what they have "won." The falcon was good, then it was nerfed. Many soldiers didn't have it when it was good, so the arguments about one weapon making a class "work" are tired and to be honest, its **** design. Players can usually make anything work, but when a class called "soldier" feels not only underpowered but completely irrelevant while shooting AR's and SMG's, from cover, at advancing foes, the designers have done a poor job. Period. The point here being, it very may well be possible that soldiers become "good" when all the weapon ranks are unlocked with max level attachments and level 3 ammo powers in use, but it is incredibly poor design to "balance" things at that level, especially when players have no power over which weapons/attachments they unlock.


Despite all that, I think the one thing that would benefit the soldier more than anything, and actually every class and thus the players, is a nerfing of reaper/cerberus/geth damage and health. Hear me out, I don't want EZ mode farm, but I think, the game just isn't tuned tight enough to warrant the massive explosion in power across the board that the enemy receives every difficulty level. When you go up in difficulty the game should be harder, no question, but what the game should not do is become something else entirely, which is largely the case in this MP.

The entire cover-shoot-move-cover-shoot-power is replaced by power spam and LOS with sniper headshots. Enemies are not engaged, because they cannot be. The most effective strategy is to hole up. When a game no longer plays like it did, there is something wrong there.(It also invalidates things like spending points on durability. If you are dead in .3 seconds, what is the difference if you died in .45 seconds?) (Lowering health and damage of enemies would also buff auto weapons a great deal, as they would have a more general purpose role as opposed to a comedic one.

I realize there are pitfalls in this approach, and I am not trying to argue for a "gold standard" that could easily be completed with any semi competent crew, I just think that the classes and weapons really suffer in comparison to one another, and the depth is simply not there, do to the sheer power of the foe. I think there are other "knobs" BW could turn to make gold as challenging as it currently is while also not making some classes and most weapons worthless, due to the health/dmg output of the enemy. Which is really where the AR's and SMG's and Soldier suffer the most, the co op team is 4 players. If it was 20 or 30, then perhaps the sheer volume of fire of 12 soldiers would be laughably powerful, but this is only 4 player co-op. When 1 player is 25% of the team, they need to pull their weight. I thnk BW revisiting their view of how gold should be played would alter this a great deal.

Modifié par Mazandus, 28 mars 2012 - 04:17 .

[wotmaniac]

Soldier went from being OP in ME1 to OK in ME2, to crap in ME3. shame, my ex-favourite class.

[claudeswares]

robarcool wrote...

Give the soldier one ammo power and it should be choosable which ammo power you want. Once chosen, it could be evolved in that one branch.

This would be the easiest solution, but some people might complain it would be too powerful (AP is awesome).

Has anyone tried a HS with a Wraith? It's 2 shot mag does comparable damage to a claymore, but it has half the wieght of one. This allows much more frequent AR usage. It works really well on Silver, have yet to try it on Gold.

[Makrys]

Notorious McG wrote...

GottvonHoff wrote...

Why is it that there's always a thread saying one class is superior than others? You can't generalize. Each class is great in their own way; ultimately it depends on the one playing.

I'm pretty sure there are people in here who are pretty damn effective as Human Soldiers, others who make excellent Human Infiltrators, so on.

The problem is, you can generalize. Soldiers are the weakest class, by a real distance. I think that would be substantiated if you were to analyze the amount of people on these forums who actually run a Soldier class on any games beyond Bronze. Sure, there would be the odd extrovert who uses the class just to be different/awkward, and I'm sure a couple of people could be deluded enough to believe it's actually a "good" class in comparison to the others. But it isn't. In any way, shape or form.

I could play Soldier, and maybe if I'm lucky I'd sneak through to the end of a Silver mission - but I stand a MUCH better chance of doing so with ANY of the other classes; simply because Soldier is the weakest. I don't think there's any argument that of all the classes, the 3 "best" (e.g. most damaging powers/weapon bonuses) are Adept, Infiltrator, and Vanguard. Sentinels and Engineers have their moments, but Soldiers are a country mile behind even those 2 (let alone the 'top' 3).

Funny you say that. Because I play the Human and Krogan solder every now and then and do just fine in silver matches. Stop stereotyping the class and any and everyone who uses it. I enjoy it and can do great with it.

[mrcanada]

The Soldier is the most useless and underpowered class in all of multiplayer. Fact.

[mrcanada]

Mazandus wrote...


The human soldier is undeniably the worst class in MP. I'm sure truly skilled players have won gold matches as one, just as truly skilled players have succeeded in other video games with other last tier classes/weapons/whatever. So anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Look at the numbers, the power list, the way enemies scale in health/dmg as the difficulty is increased, and yes, anything a Human Soldier can do, an Human Infiltrator can do better. (Except apply ammo defbuff, but the effectiveness of that is still undecided considering the risk of doing so in gold.)

So what can be done to help the soldier? The first thing that naturally springs to mind is some kind of buff to the automatic weapons, or really any weapon that isn't a sniper or heavy pistol. As it stands now most of the weapons in MP are underwhelming to say the least, and the soldier, having to rely more heavily on those weapons, would clearly benefit. Yes, the soldier can also equip pistols and sniper rifles, but the class does not receive the benefits of truly embracing a weapon type like Infils and sniper rifles with their cloak damage, or adepts and pistols with the light weight reducing their cooldowns. Yes AS can do damage with a sniper shot, but TC can do more. Yes a pistol will allow more CS spam, but Throw is better.

The second problem with soldiers is their lack of "tankability." Evasion, deception, and crowd control are the 3 routes of survivability in silver/gold. Turian and Krogan soldiers have none of those characteristics, and while the human retains the ability to roll around, it is not enough. The health and shield boost that even Krogan Soldiers benefit from, simply pales in comparison to the sheer amount of damage even a low level assault trooper or cannibal can do in a very short amount of time, this is why decoy, tactical cloak, stasis bubbles, etc, are so high in demand. The best policy is to evade and LOS enemies, not fire automatic weapons from cover as you advance. Until this is remedied, soldiers will not be welcome on gold, by most knowledgeable parties.

The third issue, which also ties into the 1st issue, is the RNG casino. Since all weapons, attachments, ammo boxes, etc are wholly tied to the randomizer, the soldier is even further limited by atrocious (yes, it is atrocious) weapon balance as the player can only equip what they have "won." The falcon was good, then it was nerfed. Many soldiers didn't have it when it was good, so the arguments about one weapon making a class "work" are tired and to be honest, its **** design. Players can usually make anything work, but when a class called "soldier" feels not only underpowered but completely irrelevant while shooting AR's and SMG's, from cover, at advancing foes, the designers have done a poor job. Period. The point here being, it very may well be possible that soldiers become "good" when all the weapon ranks are unlocked with max level attachments and level 3 ammo powers in use, but it is incredibly poor design to "balance" things at that level, especially when players have no power over which weapons/attachments they unlock.


Despite all that, I think the one thing that would benefit the soldier more than anything, and actually every class and thus the players, is a nerfing of reaper/cerberus/geth damage and health. Hear me out, I don't want EZ mode farm, but I think, the game just isn't tuned tight enough to warrant the massive explosion in power across the board that the enemy receives every difficulty level. When you go up in difficulty the game should be harder, no question, but what the game should not do is become something else entirely, which is largely the case in this MP.

The entire cover-shoot-move-cover-shoot-power is replaced by power spam and LOS with sniper headshots. Enemies are not engaged, because they cannot be. The most effective strategy is to hole up. When a game no longer plays like it did, there is something wrong there.(It also invalidates things like spending points on durability. If you are dead in .3 seconds, what is the difference if you died in .45 seconds?) (Lowering health and damage of enemies would also buff auto weapons a great deal, as they would have a more general purpose role as opposed to a comedic one.

I realize there are pitfalls in this approach, and I am not trying to argue for a "gold standard" that could easily be completed with any semi competent crew, I just think that the classes and weapons really suffer in comparison to one another, and the depth is simply not there, do to the sheer power of the foe. I think there are other "knobs" BW could turn to make gold as challenging as it currently is while also not making some classes and most weapons worthless.

This.

[samb]

I'd have to mostly agree, they just aren't competitive compared to infiltrators.  That being said my score in silver challenges are much higher as a soldier than an infiltrator, while my clear rate is lower.

I personally have a lot of fun with the class.  Adrenaline rush got a big nerf in MP (no slowing time), but with high power weapons with low clip count, like the black widow, its damage potenial is much better than infiltrator.

Using cloak with a sniper rifle you get one shot that can do up to +120%.  Using AR, you get multiple shots at +65%.  Just 2 shots and you are ahead damage wise.

At rank 6 AR can give a 50% boost to shields, which is okay..... i guess.  It's not like using concussion shot during AR is that great either.

What puts infiltrators higher than soldiers isn't damage, its the fact that cloak is just so much more verasitile.

Modifié par samb, 28 mars 2012 - 04:39 .

[Kavadas]

SoopaNoob wrote...

Kavadas wrote... 

I haven't personally altered any stats on the human soldier class in my Coalesced.bin.  I said a player could if they really wanted to.  I've altered a lot of weapons (nerfed pistols, buffed SMGs, buffed automatic ARs) but I haven't touched any class values.

I'm fine with this being done in sp but why is bioware allowing it in mp ?

To be frank I have absolutely no faith in BioWare ever moving MP's weapon balance in a direction away from SRs and pistols.  It infuriates me that lowly pistols are doing so much more damage than battle rifles like the Vindicator and Mattock (the Paladin does over four times the damage of the Mattock, lol)

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if they put back the damage modifiers against armor and shields so at least the game could properly simulate armor penetration and you could have the ARs with weaker stopping power but much greater penetration.  Unfortunately, they removed that in ME3.

Anyways, I'm perfectly comfortable admitting that I'm taking matters into my own hands and at least I can provide the few lucky players who join the games that I host a much more balanced experience with weapons and a much greater range of weapons to choose from.

I've made quite a few MP friends from my weapon balancing and have even shared my Coalesced.bin with others who enjoyed it enough to ask for it.

No apologies here.

Modifié par Kavadas, 28 mars 2012 - 05:28 .

[Mazandus]

Kavadas wrote...

SoopaNoob wrote...

Kavadas wrote... 

I haven't personally altered any stats on the human soldier class in my Coalesced.bin.  I said a player could if they really wanted to.  I've altered a lot of weapons (nerfed pistols, buffed SMGs, buffed automatic ARs) but I haven't touched any class values.

I'm fine with this being done in sp but why is bioware allowing it in mp ?

To be frank I have absolutely no faith in BioWare ever moving MP's weapon balance in a direction away from SRs and pistols.  It infuriates me that lowly pistols are doing so much more damage than battle rifles like the Vindicator and Mattock (the Paladin does over four times the damage of the Mattock, lol)

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if they put back the damage modifiers against armor and shields so at least the game could properly simulate armor penetration and you could have the ARs with weaker stopping power but much greater penetration.  Unfortunately, they removed that in ME3.

Anyways, I'm perfectly comfortable admitting that I'm taking matters into my own hands and at least I can provide the few lucky players who join the games that I host a much more balanced experience with weapons and a much greater range of weapons to choose from.

I've made quite a few MP friends from my weapon balancing and have even shared my Coalesced.bin with others who enjoyed it enough to ask for it.

No apologies here.

I for one applaud you.

[astheoceansblue]

Lionheartwolf wrote...

if you can hit the majority of your targets in the head with any class you can say the same exact thing. ultimately this is a shooting game and that is what you are going to be doing most of the time. (its the reason why everybody gets a gun) the problem is there is nothing exclusive to the soldier that makes them stand out.

You're missing the point.

Turian get increased stability which makes headshots much easier, plus firing rate increase and extra damage. This means you can easily hit more heads per minute as Turian than any other class.

Couple this with a Carnifax and maxed P.Mine and you have the best potential headshot rate in the game alongside what amounts to spammable infinite grenades.

No other class can hit as many heads as quickly.

I agree that other soldiers aren't up to much, but Turian hold their own easily with the right build.

[Kavadas]

Mazandus wrote...

Kavadas wrote... 

To be frank I have absolutely no faith in BioWare ever moving MP's weapon balance in a direction away from SRs and pistols.  It infuriates me that lowly pistols are doing so much more damage than battle rifles like the Vindicator and Mattock (the Paladin does over four times the damage of the Mattock, lol)

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if they put back the damage modifiers against armor and shields so at least the game could properly simulate armor penetration and you could have the ARs with weaker stopping power but much greater penetration.  Unfortunately, they removed that in ME3.

Anyways, I'm perfectly comfortable admitting that I'm taking matters into my own hands and at least I can provide the few lucky players who join the games that I host a much more balanced experience with weapons and a much greater range of weapons to choose from.

I've made quite a few MP friends from my weapon balancing and have even shared my Coalesced.bin with others who enjoyed it enough to ask for it.

No apologies here.

I for one applaud you.

Thanks 

If any PC players are interested in testing out my weapons rebalance my origin handle is "Cavadus"; feel free to message me.

In general the changes are as follows:

• Increased ARs' damage, RoF, and weight.
• In the case of some ARs I increased accuracy, reduced recoil, or both.
• In the case of some ARs I increased or decreased magazine capacity.
• All pistols have been adjusted downwards and relegated to sidearm (i.e. backup) status so big downward adjustments in damage, clip size, and accuracy.
• All pistols have had their weight reduced.
• SMGs are simply better versions of the pistols.
• Have not touched sniper rifles.
• Have not touched shotguns.

When I was doing my rebalance I basically found a real world analog and based some of the stat changes off that.  For instance, the Avenger's analog was the M4 Carbine so the Avenger had a RoF increase, recoil reduced, and magazine capacity reduced on top of it's damage buff.

I based the Revenant off of the M249, the Mattock off the FN-FAL, the Hornet off the Uzi, the Predator off the M9 Beretta, et cetera.

It's a much better experience than what BioWare is providing.

Modifié par Kavadas, 28 mars 2012 - 06:00 .

[CheetahZ1]

Soldier's are better heavy shotgunners.



....That's all I got.

[Mazandus]

Shocking!

To think that solid projectile weapons modeled on the performance of real world projectile weapons would provide a better experience than a game where sidearms are more powerful than fully automatic assault rifles!

Shocking I say!

[astheoceansblue]

CheetahZ1 wrote...

Soldier's are better heavy shotgunners.



....That's all I got.

They're not better than infiltrators with shotguns. ;_;

Example:

Salarian Infiltrator -
Cloak -> Energy Drain/Mine -> Shotgun blast.
or with GPS
Charge shot -> Cloak -> E.drain/Mine -> Release charge

Soldier can't keep up.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 28 mars 2012 - 06:48 .

[wolfstanus]

Spam the hell out of concussive shot. Have it so it takes on the ammo you are using wider impact radius. Oh my I'm keeping them on the ground much better than cryo and look my disrupt just hit multiple targets every .5 seconds.

The class has its uses. It just needs a health bonus. Then again the humans are weak in health

[planeswalker85]

Kavadas wrote...

Mazandus wrote...

Kavadas wrote... 

To be frank I have absolutely no faith in BioWare ever moving MP's weapon balance in a direction away from SRs and pistols.  It infuriates me that lowly pistols are doing so much more damage than battle rifles like the Vindicator and Mattock (the Paladin does over four times the damage of the Mattock, lol)

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if they put back the damage modifiers against armor and shields so at least the game could properly simulate armor penetration and you could have the ARs with weaker stopping power but much greater penetration.  Unfortunately, they removed that in ME3.

Anyways, I'm perfectly comfortable admitting that I'm taking matters into my own hands and at least I can provide the few lucky players who join the games that I host a much more balanced experience with weapons and a much greater range of weapons to choose from.

I've made quite a few MP friends from my weapon balancing and have even shared my Coalesced.bin with others who enjoyed it enough to ask for it.

No apologies here.

I for one applaud you.

Thanks 

If any PC players are interested in testing out my weapons rebalance my origin handle is "Cavadus"; feel free to message me.

In general the changes are as follows:

• Increased ARs' damage, RoF, and weight.
• In the case of some ARs I increased accuracy, reduced recoil, or both.
• In the case of some ARs I increased or decreased magazine capacity.
• All pistols have been adjusted downwards and relegated to sidearm (i.e. backup) status so big downward adjustments in damage, clip size, and accuracy.
• All pistols have had their weight reduced.
• SMGs are simply better versions of the pistols.
• Have not touched sniper rifles.
• Have not touched shotguns.

When I was doing my rebalance I basically found a real world analog and based some of the stat changes off that.  For instance, the Avenger's analog was the M4 Carbine so the Avenger had a RoF increase, recoil reduced, and magazine capacity reduced on top of it's damage buff.

I based the Revenant off of the M249, the Mattock off the FN-FAL, the Hornet off the Uzi, the Predator off the M9 Beretta, et cetera.

It's a much better experience than what BioWare is providing.

Just to clarify something here, i thought editing the files for multiplayer is not allowed? I know Bioware has put warnings on people who edit their weapons to do crazy damage etc. You might not have any problems but if bioware in the future wants to crack down, i wouldn't want to lose my multiplayer char if i try out your mod for example.

[SwiftRevenant]

Soldiers are terrible. It's night and day from the sp/mp version. It's the only class where if I don't use equipment I can burn entire clips and see barely a dent in enemies on gold. You need to shoot out of cover to do damage and at gold sticking your head out of cover for any extended amount of time is death.

Assault rifles/SMGs really need to be looked at if they want any longevity with MP. When you play the other classes you can see how underpowered Soldiers are. Sustained dps is nothing on mp when you consider all the hard hitting combos/attacks of other classes. Burst is where its at with all the headshots, biotic/tech combos, grenades.

[Kavadas]

planeswalker85 wrote...

Just to clarify something here, i thought editing the files for multiplayer is not allowed? I know Bioware has put warnings on people who edit their weapons to do crazy damage etc. You might not have any problems but if bioware in the future wants to crack down, i wouldn't want to lose my multiplayer char if i try out your mod for example.

Honestly, I don't care if they punish me or not. My gameplay is much more enjoyable for the changes I've implemented.

I haven't altered any of the classes, enemies, or rewards, and I haven't made any particular weapon OP (in fact when I think about I still don't have a single AR that does more damage than the vanilla Phalanx though my Phalanx is considerably nerfed).

I wanted better weapon balance, BioWare has been hapless since launch, and I took it upon myself.

I have no regrets and the players that join up in my games generally love the balance changes (particularly pistol users since they can now use SMGs effectively which kind of shocked me).

Modifié par Kavadas, 28 mars 2012 - 11:12 .