136 réponses à ce sujet

[CheetahZ1]

astheoceansblue wrote...

CheetahZ1 wrote...

Soldier's are better heavy shotgunners.



....That's all I got.

They're not better than infiltrators with shotguns. ;_;

Example:

Salarian Infiltrator -
Cloak -> Energy Drain/Mine -> Shotgun blast.
or with GPS
Charge shot -> Cloak -> E.drain/Mine -> Release charge

Soldier can't keep up.

Human Soldier- With Claymore I (would probably be better if I had a higher level, but that would be just for heavier damage on the heavies)

Shoot> AR> Shoot- Everything dies on gold, and surprisingly, the Claymore has enough time to get an extra shot off during duration, and generally one shots without AR. AR is meant for multiple targeting or if you mess up a shot. Not to mention this is about Human Infiltrators mind you. I dunno I'll give human infiltrators a try, but I doubt it is as effective as Human Soldier.

[SwiftRevenant]

Infiltrator shotgun users are amazing on gold. Most ones I see use the Graal X

[CheetahZ1]

So are soldiers.

[Dillon79]

i agree with you 100% about human soldier, but to all people bashing soldiers in this post you either havn't put much effort or experimentation into the turian and krogan. they are completly fine and can pull more than their weight in gold

[Hyunsai]

Kavadas wrote...

To be frank I have absolutely no faith in BioWare ever moving MP's weapon balance in a direction away from SRs and pistols.  It infuriates me that lowly pistols are doing so much more damage than battle rifles like the Vindicator and Mattock (the Paladin does over four times the damage of the Mattock, lol)

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if they put back the damage modifiers against armor and shields so at least the game could properly simulate armor penetration and you could have the ARs with weaker stopping power but much greater penetration.  Unfortunately, they removed that in ME3.

Anyways, I'm perfectly comfortable admitting that I'm taking matters into my own hands and at least I can provide the few lucky players who join the games that I host a much more balanced experience with weapons and a much greater range of weapons to choose from.

I've made quite a few MP friends from my weapon balancing and have even shared my Coalesced.bin with others who enjoyed it enough to ask for it.

No apologies here.

I support you.

Since Neverwinter Nights and the fiasco of discipline (among other stupid things), I knew Bioware did not have a clue about balance, and worse, they were very stubborn about their "brillant" ideas.

I don't expect much of them in that regard in this game.

[Pariah Mk.231]

I'm trying out a heavy shotty/sniper soldier, widow/claymore combo. It's very slow, but very powerful if used with precision. If you don't kill your target on the first shot, instant reload and get a second shot with extra damage, excellent for taking down phantoms/hunters/pyros both at long and short range (a double clamore blast rips apart anything shy of a banshee/prime/atlas on silver). The 50% shield boost is also fairly useful when enemies get close enough for the claymore.

The downside, I'll admit it is a major one, is that every missed shot punishes you. With that weapon set-up, you're looking at close to 30 seconds cooldown, so you can only use it when it's absolutely crucial you take a second shot without waiting for the reload. Higher level weapons may reduce this by a few seconds, but I only have a widow I and claymore II to work with. This will force you to stay close to your team and not try to one-man it and have you running for ammo frequently.

The mantis/eviscerator combo works too, less damage per shot, but a much better cool down rate so you can instant reload far more often. It's also more forgiving for missing with the shotgun and you're spending less time grabbing ammo. Both combos are using extra damage/spare clips, except for the mantis that has the penetration mod. Both are viable on silver. Both consistantly put me in top spot.

Wouldn't even consider taking them to gold though, not that much of an idiot.

Infiltrator on the other hand can be a lot more versatile and put more damage into each shot, especially if you set them up as a sniper. When using the mantis, the cloak will be back for the next shot if you only bring a light back up weapon (or none at all), though you still have to wait for the reload each time and you're in a tight spot if enemies pop out next to you right after you fire and your cloak is down.

While the infiltrator's pros outweigh the soldier's, it's not to the point that the soldier becomes pointless, you just need to try out different techniques with the soldier.

[planeswalker85]

Kavadas wrote...

planeswalker85 wrote...

Just to clarify something here, i thought editing the files for multiplayer is not allowed? I know Bioware has put warnings on people who edit their weapons to do crazy damage etc. You might not have any problems but if bioware in the future wants to crack down, i wouldn't want to lose my multiplayer char if i try out your mod for example.

Honestly, I don't care if they punish me or not. My gameplay is much more enjoyable for the changes I've implemented.

I haven't altered any of the classes, enemies, or rewards, and I haven't made any particular weapon OP (in fact when I think about I still don't have a single AR that does more damage than the vanilla Phalanx though my Phalanx is considerably nerfed).

I wanted better weapon balance, BioWare has been hapless since launch, and I took it upon myself.

I have no regrets and the players that join up in my games generally love the balance changes (particularly pistol users since they can now use SMGs effectively which kind of shocked me).

OK, fair play to you. I agree with better weapon balance but just leery of doing something which might cause infractions from bioware.

[jaydubs67]

wolfstanus wrote...

Spam the hell out of concussive shot. Have it so it takes on the ammo you are using wider impact radius. Oh my I'm keeping them on the ground much better than cryo and look my disrupt just hit multiple targets every .5 seconds.

The class has its uses. It just needs a health bonus. Then again the humans are weak in health

I tested two days ago and the amplification evolution on concussive shot is broken.  I don't really think the multiplayer tweaks are capable of correcting that type of issue, we'd need a patch, no?  

[ElementL09]

Human Soldier overall needs a buff. I can run and gun with any class and still be effective, but with other classes, they usually specialize in something else.

[t6skyart]

I play human soldier just to look like an assault trooper. I have vanguard for that, but i tend to play serious with my vanguard.

[Lavantas]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Only a Sabre X will help

The Sabre is terrible, you're better off with a carnfiex or a Paladin or a sniper. 

Get out of Bronze and it's a great gun.

[KodiakAsh]

Because of the Falc....nevermind.

[HTTP 404]

soldiers are not pointless. they got guns that shoot. poor choice of word. less effective? probably. pointless? nah.

[KodiakAsh]

Saber is beyond terrible.  It needs to take a scope to make it's slow fire rate worth it (for headshots) which just eats up a slot that's better used for more valuable mods.  Honestly there is nothing a person with a Saber could do that isn't done better with a Phalanx or Paladin. 

They desperately need to increase the rate of fire on most semi-automatics to make them even somewhat comparable.  I doubt that will ever happen however because of the poorly designed weapon/class system.  While the completely free system where any class can choose any weapon sounds good in theory, it means that any weapon based classes are ultimately sub par compared to ability based classes who can also bring the exact same guns.  The only possible fix would be for class/race specific passive boosts to weapons.  Otherwise we'll continue to see the good weapons (IE: Falcon) ultimately nerfed because other classes are also using them AND having amazing abilities...

[HTTP 404]

KodiakAsh wrote...

Saber is beyond terrible.  It needs to take a scope to make it's slow fire rate worth it (for headshots) which just eats up a slot that's better used for more valuable mods.  Honestly there is nothing a person with a Saber could do that isn't done better with a Phalanx or Paladin. 

They desperately need to increase the rate of fire on most semi-automatics to make them even somewhat comparable.  I doubt that will ever happen however because of the poorly designed weapon/class system.  While the completely free system where any class can choose any weapon sounds good in theory, it means that any weapon based classes are ultimately sub par compared to ability based classes who can also bring the exact same guns.  The only possible fix would be for class/race specific passive boosts to weapons.  Otherwise we'll continue to see the good weapons (IE: Falcon) ultimately nerfed because other classes are also using them AND having amazing abilities...

it kind of works with the weight system.  I agree tho that something more needs to be done though.  like increase the damage done by heavier weapons? and make them even more heavy?

[Broganisity]

Soldiers? Bad? I feel like I'm the only person who knows how to play them right. :|

[Atheosis]

KodiakAsh wrote...

Saber is beyond terrible.  It needs to take a scope to make it's slow fire rate worth it (for headshots) which just eats up a slot that's better used for more valuable mods.  Honestly there is nothing a person with a Saber could do that isn't done better with a Phalanx or Paladin. 

You can make are argument for the Carnifex or Paladin versus the Saber, but the Phalanx?  Come on now...

[Atheosis]

Dillon79 wrote...

i agree with you 100% about human soldier, but to all people bashing soldiers in this post you either havn't put much effort or experimentation into the turian and krogan. they are completly fine and can pull more than their weight in gold

Even the Human soldier can do a decent job in Gold when used by a good player, but come on, the class is clearly inferior to pretty much everything else.  And while Turian and Krogan have better power suites, their immobility is a huge liability in Gold, so it's kind of a wash.

[aimlessgun]

Broganisity wrote...

Soldiers? Bad? I feel like I'm the only person who knows how to play them right. :|

Just because you play well does not mean a class is good. I've hit first in score many times on gold with a human soldier. Doesn't mean human soldiers are good compared to the other classes. 

[Broganisity]

aimlessgun wrote...

Broganisity wrote...

Soldiers? Bad? I feel like I'm the only person who knows how to play them right. :|

Just because you play well does not mean a class is good. I've hit first in score many times on gold with a human soldier. Doesn't mean human soldiers are good compared to the other classes. 

Fair enough, I just feel that they aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be.

[peddroelm]

What can the human soldier do better than the human infiltrator (and better than the turian&krogan soldiers) ?

Do more DPS vs Armored targets on gold using Assault rifles (with Adrenaline Rush active).. AR increases damage per shot so the amount lost to DR by percentage is smaller - they still need to use AP ammo and maybe even sacrifice a weapon add-on for an AP-piercing mod...

[aimlessgun]

Broganisity wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

Broganisity wrote...

Soldiers? Bad? I feel like I'm the only person who knows how to play them right. :|

Just because you play well does not mean a class is good. I've hit first in score many times on gold with a human soldier. Doesn't mean human soldiers are good compared to the other classes. 

Fair enough, I just feel that they aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be.

Yeah I guess if they were truly awful nobody would do well with them 

[Atheosis]

peddroelmz wrote...

What can the human soldier do better than the human infiltrator (and better than the turian&krogan soldiers) ?

Do more DPS vs Armored targets on gold using Assault rifles (with Adrenaline Rush active).. AR increases damage per shot so the amount lost to DR by percentage is smaller - they still need to use AP ammo and maybe even sacrifice a weapon add-on for an AP-piercing mod...

If you use the same mods and ammo with a sniping Infiltrator, I'm pretty sure this statement is wrong.

[Calibisto]

Mazandus wrote...
<snip>
Despite all that, I think the one thing that would benefit the soldier more than anything, and actually every class and thus the players, is a nerfing of reaper/cerberus/geth damage and health. Hear me out, I don't want EZ mode farm, but I think, the game just isn't tuned tight enough to warrant the massive explosion in power across the board that the enemy receives every difficulty level. When you go up in difficulty the game should be harder, no question, but what the game should not do is become something else entirely, which is largely the case in this MP.

The entire cover-shoot-move-cover-shoot-power is replaced by power spam and LOS with sniper headshots. Enemies are not engaged, because they cannot be. The most effective strategy is to hole up. When a game no longer plays like it did, there is something wrong there.(It also invalidates things like spending points on durability. If you are dead in .3 seconds, what is the difference if you died in .45 seconds?) (Lowering health and damage of enemies would also buff auto weapons a great deal, as they would have a more general purpose role as opposed to a comedic one.

I realize there are pitfalls in this approach, and I am not trying to argue for a "gold standard" that could easily be completed with any semi competent crew, I just think that the classes and weapons really suffer in comparison to one another, and the depth is simply not there, do to the sheer power of the foe. I think there are other "knobs" BW could turn to make gold as challenging as it currently is while also not making some classes and most weapons worthless, due to the health/dmg output of the enemy. Which is really where the AR's and SMG's and Soldier suffer the most, the co op team is 4 players. If it was 20 or 30, then perhaps the sheer volume of fire of 12 soldiers would be laughably powerful, but this is only 4 player co-op. When 1 player is 25% of the team, they need to pull their weight. I thnk BW revisiting their view of how gold should be played would alter this a great deal.

Though this is getting off topic, this sounds true.

As for "knobs", I think a health/damage increase is okay, if done marginally.
It sounds as best they can do is then, is increasing the number of enemies or making new enemies for the higher levels.

Modifié par Calibisto, 29 mars 2012 - 05:54 .

[aimlessgun]

Atheosis wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

What can the human soldier do better than the human infiltrator (and better than the turian&krogan soldiers) ?

Do more DPS vs Armored targets on gold using Assault rifles (with Adrenaline Rush active).. AR increases damage per shot so the amount lost to DR by percentage is smaller - they still need to use AP ammo and maybe even sacrifice a weapon add-on for an AP-piercing mod...

If you use the same mods and ammo with a sniping Infiltrator, I'm pretty sure this statement is wrong.

I did the math for an infiltrator using a Widow X in another thread: It came out to about 700 DPS vs amor with AP Ammo III and Sniper Amp III (max damage spec). This was vs Banshee/Atlas so no head like the bugged Prime.

I was comparing it to a Turian Soldier, who with the same equipment quality and a Mattock X, output ~1500 DPS on an armored boss. More than double the infiltrator DPS, but of course that's assuming you are not being shot at - infiltrator can apply their maximum DPS without danger. 

I'll do the math for human soldier and post it here in a bit. 

Modifié par aimlessgun, 29 mars 2012 - 05:58 .