136 réponses à ce sujet

[Trakarg]

Aren't ALL soldiers outclassed by infiltrators?  Not just humans...

[Atheosis]

aimlessgun wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

What can the human soldier do better than the human infiltrator (and better than the turian&krogan soldiers) ?

Do more DPS vs Armored targets on gold using Assault rifles (with Adrenaline Rush active).. AR increases damage per shot so the amount lost to DR by percentage is smaller - they still need to use AP ammo and maybe even sacrifice a weapon add-on for an AP-piercing mod...

If you use the same mods and ammo with a sniping Infiltrator, I'm pretty sure this statement is wrong.

I did the math for an infiltrator using a Widow X in another thread: It came out to about 700 DPS vs amor with AP Ammo III and Sniper Amp III (max damage spec). This was vs Banshee/Atlas so no head like the bugged Prime.

I was comparing it to a Turian Soldier, who with the same equipment quality and a Mattock X, output ~1500 DPS on an armored boss. More than double the infiltrator DPS, but of course that's assuming you are not being shot at - infiltrator can apply their maximum DPS without danger. 

I'll do the math for human soldier and post it here in a bit. 

Can a human being actually achieve the maximum RoF with a Mattock with Marksman on? 

[aimlessgun]

Human Soldier, max damage spec, Mattock X, Extended Barrel V, Extended Mags V

27.5% damage passives, 25% damage Barrel V, 30% damage AP Ammo III, 30% damage AR Rail Amp III
+65% damage during Adrenaline Rush (6.8 seconds duration, 3.4 seconds cooldown)

Mattock does 118 base damage per bullet and fires at 450 RPM (7.5 rps), reload in 1.37 seconds. It takes 3.73 seconds to empty a 28 round clip for a total cycle time of 5 secconds. 

During AR: 1 clip, reload, then 1.8 seconds of the next clip is 41 bullets in AR. 
Out of AR: 15 bullets from the last clip. In a perfect world you can reload and get another 4 bullets in but I've found in ideal conditions the rotation is 2 clips per AR/recharge cycle.

Armor is 50 base, reduced by 75% with AP ammo III, so minus 12.5 dmg per bullet. 
In AR dmg per bullet: [ 118 * ( 1 + .65 + .3 + .3 + .275 +.25 ) ] - 12.5 = 315
Out of AR: 238

( 41 * 315 ) + ( 15 * 238 ) = 16485 damage in a cycle time of 10.2 seconds. 
16485 / 10.2 = ~1600 DPS!

Way, way higher than the infiltrator (With Widow X, too lazy to model Black Widow ). Again the disclaimer: this is if you don't have to take cover. However there are many situations where this is applicable, especially with certian team comps (engineeers). Also aginst anything with a head, the infiltrator will take over: the Mattock is good at getting headshots, but not even close to every bullet. 

Atheosis wrote...
Can a human being actually achieve the maximum RoF with a Mattock with Marksman on? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie]

 

I can't, actually. I can fire 2 extended mattock clips during a Marksman: in theory you should be able to fire 2 clips and do a whole second reload in the duration. I calculated the DPS with the rotation I actually use in games. 

EDIT: Ok math updated with Extended Barrel and the correct number of bullets now. 

Modifié par aimlessgun, 29 mars 2012 - 06:33 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

When I play human soldier, I usually end up being the janitor: holding the line, watching our backs, and generally keeping enemies away from flanking the snipers and the casters. It's a thankless job since everyone else is blasting away without knowing I've been busy mopping up the leftovers that could've got to them. I like concussive shot, its got a very fast casting animation, you can spam it without interrupting your shooting. An AR/SG setup is pretty good so you can swtich between defending and flanking on the fly. But ARush sucks, aside from the reload thing it doesn't offer enough dmg boost or defense. I hardly use it, so I upgrade grenades instead.

[peddroelm]

Atheosis wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

What can the human soldier do better than the human infiltrator (and better than the turian&krogan soldiers) ?

Do more DPS vs Armored targets on gold using Assault rifles (with Adrenaline Rush active).. AR increases damage per shot so the amount lost to DR by percentage is smaller - they still need to use AP ammo and maybe even sacrifice a weapon add-on for an AP-piercing mod...

If you use the same mods and ammo with a sniping Infiltrator, I'm pretty sure this statement is wrong.

How can it be wrong ?  Assault rifles cannot be used effectively with the Cloak Bonus - their ROF is way too fast for the cloaks recharge rate ... Adrenaline rush adds damage for a much much longer duration ....


* Also AP ammo on a powerfull one shot sniper rifle is a bit of a waste   0.3% of base weapon damage is not much (typically inflitrators have ~2.4 damage multiplier for cloaked shots vs body without any consumables )  ...It ends up adding a small percentage to the total DPS ... For soldiers with full auto ARs however it can end up more than doubling the DPS on target ...

[Kavadas]

aimlessgun wrote...

( 41 * 315 ) + ( 15 * 238 ) = 16485 damage in a cycle time of 10.2 seconds. 
16485 / 10.2 = [b]~1600 DPS!

Too bad there exists virtually no circumstance in silver and gold where anyone can expose themselves long enough to apply that DPS.

All of that on-paper damage is worthless when you're gunned down in under three or four seconds.

[Igipopp]

LEAVE BRITNEY  THE SOLDIER ALONE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LEAVE HIM ALONE! Sob.sob.sob....

[GDragonFly7]

This is why I refuse to play gold difficulty. It is not because it is too hard (although it requires skill and some luck). I play on silver (bronze is good only for the first few levels) and I can play any character I choose - soldier, adept or anything else.

On gold, unless you have biotics or ability to disappear whenever you want, you can't be efficient enough. Not to mention the fact that most weapons are very hard to use or almost useless on gold. Why BioWare won't fix it? I don't know...

[aimlessgun]

Kavadas wrote...

aimlessgun wrote...

( 41 * 315 ) + ( 15 * 238 ) = 16485 damage in a cycle time of 10.2 seconds. 
16485 / 10.2 = [b]~1600 DPS!

Too bad there exists virtually no circumstance in silver and gold where anyone can expose themselves long enough to apply that DPS.

All of that on-paper damage is worthless when you're gunned down in under three or four seconds.

Completely and utterly untrue. If you know what you're doing, you'll find ways much of the time. That's where the skill in playing a soldier really comes in tbh. It's about more than aim: it's about positioning and movement. It's what seperates the soldiers who finish with 40k points in gold from the ones that finish with 90k+

Modifié par aimlessgun, 29 mars 2012 - 08:43 .

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Honestly, Soldiers in general are pointless, but at leas the Krogan and Turian soldiers can claim they can do a few things better than everyone else.

The Human Soldier? Not so much.

I don't get it. It has the same health, damage, equippables, and shielding as every other human class, but with a dramatically weaker ability and with one of the weaker grenades. Whatever happened to Soldiers having exclusive access to Assault Rifles and Heavy Armor? I can understand removing these for flavor purposes, but with that a drae of the Soldier class is gone as well.

Unless you go for a max-recharge abuse-the-snot-out-of-Adrenaline-Rush build, there's no point to the class whatsoever, since it doesn't do anything effectively that's not done better by other classes.

Modifié par JaimasOfRaxis, 29 mars 2012 - 08:49 .

[Darkslayer557]

a troll class if you ask me, troll with it in some silver games just to show i can top the scoreboard with the worst class.

[aimlessgun]

Darkslayer557 wrote...

a troll class if you ask me, troll with it in some silver games just to show i can top the scoreboard with the worst class.

Real men troll gold