9 réponses à ce sujet

[nicethugbert]

Been playing Mass Effect 3 lately.  Before that there was Kingdoms of Amalur Demo, Battlefield 3,  Dragon Age series, and other games.  In May there will be Diablo 3. 

So, I am quite divorced from the D&D world and happily so.  It's not to say that I can't have fun in a D&D game.  But, lets be honest.  It's very hard to play true D&D on a computer, and not entirely neccessary for funz sakez. 

What we have now is an adaptation with a tilt towards a compressed time frame.  We rarely if ever play with the classic rest restrictions.  We have more encounters and more shorter rest.  Magic items abound.

Yet, we are hobbled by ghosts of D&D, namely, some adaptation of the 6 second round without complete animation, Vancian spell casting, rest, etc.

I understand that the purpose of some of the D&D rules is to contain the sense of fantasy so that commoners still make some sense and the party does not appear to be a troupe of gods on the rampage.  But, that always falls apart.  People simply don't make those kinds of modules very often if at all.  And, it's not entirely neccessary for funz sakez.

So, in light of that, I propose other game rules be incorporated into NWN2.  Diablo 3 Game Guide has some interesting ideas.  They can be incorporated in whole or in part.  Many of us have wanted a revamped Barbarian, Monk, Wizard, Spirit Shaman, or Ranger for quite some time.  I think Diablo 3 has some good ideas for either adaptation or faithful reproduction.

I've thought of doing this my self, but, I frequently think that yet produce infrequently.  So, I put this idea out there for people to use as they please.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 28 mars 2012 - 09:31 .

[kamal_]

Doing a completely different rulesystem would be both a huge undertaking and in all likelihood not compatible with any existing modules. Valiant idea, but too complex in practice I think.

[nicethugbert]

What do you mean by not being compatible with existing modules?

[kamal_]

I mean if you convert to a diablo (for example) system you'd have all new feats, spells etc. Everything is the module is set to use nwn2 feats, spells etc. So nothing in the module would be able to use the abilities of the new rulesystem, nor would they be able to use the nwn2 feats/spells etc,, since you overrode them.

At best, only the player would be playing by the new rules, while everyone else was using nwn2 rules.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Custom class packs are certainly an easy enough thing for modders to develop, but the challenge is to balance them against each other and the play experiences of different modules. I think nicethugbert has a point in that maybe we need a system specifically designed for cRPG play, and not an adapted PnP system, but I think it will take a lot of work to get it right. In a real sense, all cRPG systems, including Diablo, are adaptations of DnD, so I'm sure if there's much advantage in chucking the original and starting over with another derivative. At least with v3.5 DnD, so many people know the system well and have figured out all the imbalances that you know what your working with.

I do think, though, that we should borrow/steal/adapt any interesting mechanic or class from where ever we find it. NTB, what did you find compelling about the Diablo classes?

[painofdungeoneternal]

This happens all the time, however it is far easier to implement features small in scope than ones that can be described as complete rule changes. Rule 0 is very much in effect.

Note that some areas are easier to change, such as spells after than they are cast, as opposed to custom spell books or custom combat ( tome of battle ) and 6 second rounds.

Some areas were made to be easily modded such as anything you define with a 2da like a class or a spell - or the module or story aspects. Want new classes, knock yourself out. Custom leveling systems - they exist with all characters at 8th level or by adding feats every so many xp a player gets instead of adding levels. Even a custom class system was done on one PW which did not seem to get large numbers of players ( think that was segal and the depths ).

But other areas it's like trying to change how gravity works, good luck implementing thaco like in D&D basic, or a half dozen other things like flying ( even though hellfire has got some aspects of it doable ). Even those with full access to the source very likely would have to do an entirely new engine to add in some features.

The D&D rules by them selves seem to be getting a very bad rap, which is odd since so many games use D&D concepts. Many think D&D by itself means it can't work. A good D&D game IS HEAVILY adjusted by house rules, and adjusted constantly by DM's adjudicating those rules.

I much prefer adding to the existing options, instead of removing everything and starting over, much more interesting for example to add a mana mechanic to a entirely new class which can coexist with the current classes instead of just making all wizards suddenly have to use mana. Not as easy to balance, but then the goal of balancing is not about "power", it's about giving players more viable options.

Each class in D&D 3.5 and below is it's OWN set of rules. ( D&D 4.0 changes this so all classes have the same rules with mainly flavor differences, everyone will get an at will power for example of minor effect, while in 3.5 how a class works just depends on it's description. ) You can use rules from other systems - especially d20 systems, and just adapt those that are really different so it's comparable. Nothing says you cannot add a Jedi, martial artist, or even the 4 classes in the old gauntlet video games. Big problem is going to be the limit of 254 classes the game has, which means you can't add every possible class to a single game.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 28 mars 2012 - 09:36 .

[nicethugbert]

Kamal, are you saying that if I were change Barbarian so that it would have these new feats automatically granted to it, one at each level, that it would not affect the NPC's?

One of my favorite things about the Diablo 3 classes is that you get a new feat at each level and most of the time it's an active feat. So, you get to do something new at just about every level. It's not just a measly +1 this or that. It's a new action.

I would like to play a Mass Effect 3 Vanguard in NWN2. How is that for action?

[painofdungeoneternal]

Seems like a pretty trivial 2da edit. Especially if you don't mind having too many feats being handed out. I think the only issue is the feat every so many levels might be hard to adjust, would need to look at that.

No the blueprints don't follow any rules anymore than DM's do. They can have classes and there are buttons to add in feats, but you can just add feats as desired. Really it is more related to the story and how the area builder wants the NPC's to act, often set up entirely using different classes if it helps the AI make the NPC's react as the dev wants them to. ( often it's recommended to use a sorcerer instead of a wizard for example just because other wise the wizard will prefer his dagger over his spell book far too often )

[nicethugbert]

Those are good points, Pain. In the end, you work with what is available. So, somethings have to be inspiration and not 100% reproduction. For instance, the Diablo 3 wizard feats could be made into reserve feats.

A ME3 Vanguard in NWN2, would do much less damage with charge and nova if you want to make it play nice with the standard content, but, they would still have a Knock Back effect. Unless, the class had weak defenses as it does in Mass Effect 3. Then it's charge and nova would have to be aggressive as they are in Mass Effect 3 or the character will not survive even kobolds.

I imagine I'd rather add for the most part without any regard for balance because people can choose to not use what they don't like. Yet, some classes seem so irredeemably bad, Barbarian for instance, that I'm tempted to just over write it.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Barbarian, hmm, feat at level 1 determines how they work...

choose a tree from below

Rager ( per current rules )
Some other rager thingy kaedrin did
Horseman ( think atilla the hun and the mongol hordes and we have horsies now )
Zulu Warrior
etc...

Note that the nwnx plugin that allows stacking means the barbarians bonuses stack. Have not tried it yet but i think this should make a big difference.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 28 mars 2012 - 11:13 .