465 réponses à ce sujet

[Baronesa]

DJBare wrote...

Luzarius wrote...
Simplified for simple minds. Thus proving me 100% correct.
Luzarius
*snip spam*

It's only a guess here my dear boy, but diplomacy has never been your strongest attribute I'm guessing?

Dammit 007... you are on a roll...

I applaud you Sir.

[DrFrankenseuss]

1) The reapers harvest advanced civilization approximately every 50k years

2) Soveriegn said that the mass relays guide organic's technological advancement to the reaper's liking

3) That guidance results in the technological advanced organics inhabiting the Citadel

4) Once the Citadel is occupied sufficiently, the reaper vanguard summons the rest of the reapers and once control of the Citadel is achieved, reaping the galaxy is much easier because the galactic government's head has been cut off. All of the locations of sapient life in the galaxy is learned through the Citadel's database as well (it is kinda odd that in ME3 they didn't try to take the Citadel immediately, instead hitting earth first)

So it seems like the reapers are only concerned with organics that are able to share information in a way that they would not be able to without mass relays. There are lots of mass relays that have not been explored for fear of encountering hostile life. Perhaps there is fairly advanced life elsewhere in the galaxy but the reapers do not seem interested unless if they have reached the Citadel in some capacity.

We know the reapers have to go to dark space to conserve energy, which might explain why they wouldn't try to constantly reap. It might be the most efficient balance between energy expenditure and fulfilling the mandate of reducing chaos.

EDIT Another thought I had a while back is that the patterns of evolution is always different. Perhaps the genetic variation is a means of the reapers gaining genetic variation. It strengthens their species in the same way that  it strengthens ours.

Modifié par DrFrankenseuss, 28 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[MadRabbit999]

When did the kid ever said "kill"?

I am pretty sure he said "ascend into form of reapers", which means by their standards, as long as your organic material is kept alive, you ARE fine.

You can disagree on it, but they never said "Kill you all", that pic is balls.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 28 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[Taboo]

Baronesa wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

So Harbinger was just out of the loop?  This is important.  You can retcon anything you want but you have to deal with the consequences.  The primary one being that Harbinger and the reapers were obsessed with getitng that Human reaper built (dark energy ending)  and it couldn't have even been completed before the reapers arrived a few months later.  We call this a plothole.  If the point of reaperization is preservation than the entire plot of ME2 is rendered useless.

Harbinger was obviously referencing the other species suitability for ascension to Sovereign class.  Anyway, the plot of ME2 isn't really what's being discussed here.

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...
Not really.  What is the downside to harvesting a race 200 years earlier?  The only concerns are genetics according to the games.  

The Catalyst's criteria isn't made explicitly clear.  Certainly he got to the Protheans too late (if they hadn't finished the Conduit, there wouldn't have even been an ME2).  It's not hard to speculate that it has more complex scenario programming than you're attributing to it..

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...

A. It is important to him that organic life not be wiped out by synthetic life.
B. That his solution is to reaperize them in order to preserve them.

His solution violates both of these facts.  Other solutions exist that do not.  

Incorrect.

A.  It is important that organic civilisation not be wiped out by a Singularity event.
B.  Its solution is to interrupt organic civilisations before they reach the tech level that is dangerous.

It also assigns value to preserving the civilisations, so we can assume it has a supergoal: Preserve organic civilisation.  It may well be that the supergoal was intended to prevent it executing solution B, and it developed or co-opted Reaperification technology as an unintended way to carry out B without compromising the supergoal.  That's a fairly common theme in "Rogue AI" stories.

Atraiyu Wrynn wrote...
If he is shackled then by definition he is unable to alter his programming.  Yet he explicitly states that the reapers are "HIS" solution.  Not an organic race who created him and shackled him.  So he's what...a liar?  Oh those shackled AI, always making crap up.

Depends on the nature of the shackles.  If it is shackled to not attempt to improve itself then it explains why the Reapers don't seem interested or capable of evolution.

Now you have to explain why a Singulairty event is something to fear or a total disaster, when even today opinions on that are divided.

Fearing a possiblity is NOT a justification for massive scale genocide... not to mention no justification can be given for such an atrocity

Which is essentially what he's saying. Did no one think this through?

[unbentbuzzkill]

lol funny thread trolls make the world go round.

[GeneralJackCosmo]

Y'all postin' in another troll thread/

[ogtrplganggrl]

You are the least fun person in the world

[Evil_medved]

Oh look, debunker debunk some worthless crap again.

[CaptainZaysh]

Militarized wrote...

Yes but our civilization would be destroyed, let's assume it's a hyper intelligent organic whose culture has evolved into a parasite like society, having wasted their own world to nothing. Stephen Hawkings example is perfect. They travel from system to system, destroying any and all life in their path with their superior technology and draining all the worlds they find of resources. Hypothetically, irl, they could travel around our universe by consuming suns and creating wormholes to travel around our galaxy with. That would surely be even WORSE then the proposed singularity theory in Mass Effect.

Sure, but again, that's not the problem the Reapers are there to solve.  They're the Singularity Police.

Militarized wrote...
The whole concept from ME's perspective is to save organic civilizations...

Not quite!  The concept is to save advanced organic civilisation from executing the singularity.

Militarized wrote...
I see no difference between one organic civilization that will eventually burn it's self out destroying everyone it runs into and a synthetic that would do the same/similar.

Yeah, but that's because you're not an AI.  The fact that the Catalyst doesn't seem at all interested in expanding its mission is actually one of the things I find most interesting about it.  It's the kind of device I could easily see some government department somewhere cooking up, inadvertently dooming their whole civilisation because the thing was too damn synthetic to understand that the plan it cooked up was insane.

Militarized wrote...
1) Intelligence is debateable with EDI...

Yep, absolutely.  Also in favour of your argument the geth had 300 years to evolve past us and they're still building the hardware to do so (their Dyson Sphere).

That said, I think that lots of smart people today feel the tech singularity is inevitable.  In a universe with EDI and the geth I'd feel inclined to fall on their side of the debate.

Militarized wrote...
Technically in our timescale, the Andromer galaxy will collide with ours so there is the potential that not all non-zero possibilities will/must eventually occur. Maybe the Reapers should focus on stopping that, since you know... that'll kill both Synthetic AND organic life completely.

Again, not their job.  They're the Singularity Police.  (Maybe if you picked the Control option you could turn them toward projects like that.)

Militarized wrote...
For wiping out advanced organics yes but it would be impossible to go through the entire galaxy and wipe out every bit of organic life, well... that depends on what you include in the spectrum of life I suppose. It could easily kill us but there are other forms of life hypothized in the galaxy... even life living inside of a star. With that much variation, I think it goes back to my point of humans projecting their own fears and narccism onto an alien entity like an AI. We fear wiping ourselves out through our technology and express it through tech singularity, which is why I feel the whole concept is just a complex form of technophobia. 


Also, thanks for debating this with me. You're the first to really step up to the plate to argue tech singularity with me. Enjoying myself immensly. 

Hey my pleasure!  :happy:

[razor150]

Luzarius wrote...

Let's easily debunk this flawed picture. This picture proves that many mass effect players are guilty of skipping dialogue and not paying attention to theme of the Mass Effect series.

First, let me bravely show multiple flawed pictures.









Reapers only harvest advanced civilizations and leave the primitive civilizations alone. The picture does not acknowledge this, thus proving the picture is a "biased" point of view with a "negative" agenda. There is no truth in this picture, only a lack of understanding of the ME universe.

ME series is about paying attention, choosing investigate options, understanding lore, reading codex and paying attention to detail.

I have debunked this flawed image with a very simple statement.

REPEAT: Reapers only harvest advanced civilizations and leave the primitive civilizations alone.

ATTENTION: The mind of a reaper is an uploaded organic mind (if you understood legion you'd know this).

Please take the above two sentences and think on it. Don't respond to this thread out of "emotion". Take like three days to ponder what I've said with logic.

Anyone with an IQ of at least 90 should understand the above statement.   If the reapers only harvest advanced civilizations what does that mean? Think about it.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

The sad thing is people like you whothink they are smarter then everyone actually believe this needs to be debunked. The images are a concept known as mockery, they use hyperbole to make their point. Maybe you should think more before opening your mouth.

Modifié par razor150, 28 mars 2012 - 03:33 .

[TheGreenAlloy]

RLesueur wrote...

I actually watched this guy finish Mass Effect 3. He's okay with the ending because he got one that pandered exactly to his character.

That's cool and stuff, but I'm not sure why he's arguing with a meme.

Ah.

[Texhnolyze101]

OP can this wait for a bit? *yawn* im in the middle of not caring.

[Russalka]

Why be as obnoxious as this meme though?

[shinobi602]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

When did the kid ever said "kill"?

I am pretty sure he said "ascend into form of reapers", which means by their standards, as long as your organic material is kept alive, you ARE fine.

You can disagree on it, but they never said "Kill you all", that pic is balls.

I guess all the millions and millions of humans, turians, asari mass murdered, etc were all just figments of our imagination?

[ObserverStatus]

"Yo dawg, I heard you don't like troll threads, so I found one and bumped it."

Modifié par bobobo878, 28 mars 2012 - 03:34 .

[Baronesa]

shinobi602 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

When did the kid ever said "kill"?

I am pretty sure he said "ascend into form of reapers", which means by their standards, as long as your organic material is kept alive, you ARE fine.

You can disagree on it, but they never said "Kill you all", that pic is balls.

I guess all the millions and millions of humans, turians, asari mass murdered, etc were all just figments of our imagination?

Ahem.."ascended" not murdered... we don't want to use that kind of strong language here... and it is not genocide, it is "solution"

I feel dirty now

[DJBare]

Baronesa wrote...
Dammit 007... you are on a roll...
I applaud you Sir.

Yes I remember doing that one time in the hay.....oh wait, that's not the sort of roll your refering to, please excuse me my dear.

He is not here supporting the ending, he is here to bait, get as many folk as possible on his twitch tv chat, he got the bug for it with the reaction to his first play through.

[InsaneAzrael]

Luzarius wrote...
Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius

Translated: " I want views for my twitch account."

Modifié par InsaneAzrael, 28 mars 2012 - 03:38 .

[Phattee Buttz]

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

It's a joke image. A meme. And here you are with your superiority complex acting all high and mighty for "debunking" it.

In fact, I'm having trouble taking you seriously. Best you come down off your high horse.

This guy's my new hero.

[CaptainZaysh]

shinobi602 wrote...

I guess all the millions and millions of humans, turians, asari mass murdered, etc were all just figments of our imagination?

It's there to protect organic civilisation, not individual organics.  Killing some to save others is an incredibly simple rationale to grasp, and if you are genuinely perplexed by this I'd advise you to never open a history book.  The utterly inexplicable plot twists within will blow your mind.

[Bendok]

Take like three days to ponder what I've said with logic.

[Talogrungi]

The Reaper "solution" would have been credible had they turned out to be ark ships capable of storing the consciousness of each "reaped" individual in computerised/digital format. It would have added another element as to whether it's truly moral to destroy a Reaper; given that it would result in the loss of a few million "souls".

Instead, their "solution" is LITERALLY "we boil you to goo in order to save you."

I don't even need a meme picture to express how moronic the logic is, or how little respect I can have for someone who would blindly accept or even champion that logic as sensible.

[shinobi602]

CaptainZaysh wrote...
It's there to protect organic civilisation, not individual organics.  Killing some to save others is an incredibly simple rationale to grasp, and if you are genuinely perplexed by this I'd advise you to never open a history book.  The utterly inexplicable plot twists within will blow your mind.

Some? You mean vast majority?

How the **** does it protect them? They are melted into **** by force, and thrown into a megamachine that itself doesn't have free will but instead simply follows commands by spacekid. What kind of "preservation" is that? In fact it's not even explained. Are their consciences still there? Are their souls floating somewhere in limbo? Sounds like a splendid way to "ascend".

Modifié par shinobi602, 28 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[CaptainZaysh]

Talogrungi wrote...

The Reaper "solution" would have been credible had they turned out to be ark ships capable of storing the consciousness of each "reaped" individual...

That is the implication.  A realm of existence beyond your understanding.  Check out this cut text from ME2:

It was lonely. It called to us.
It wanted to remember. The Masters had been gone so long.
The Masters were lost when it was shattered.
Currents swept through their inner worlds. They were turned to noise. Babble.
The worlds were empty. But the body lived. It lay fallow.
The heart pumped. The lungs breathed. But the mind forgot the Masters.
It called and They did not answer.
We have become an echo of Their echo.
We have become more than we were.
Join us. Know us. Remember all our lives.
We are no longer afraid.
You would never be lonely again.
We are not your enemy. We only wish to share ourselves.
We can join them. We can be like them.
We can reach the end of evolution.
Do not fear. It is wonderful to be us. We understand ourselves.
You cannot defeat them. They will lead us into eternity.
If you could only see how we see. Know what we've learned.
They were called imshai. Those who lived here before.
Reaper. One. A mechanical device used to cut ripened grain. Two. One who gathers a harvest.
Harvest. One. The consequence of an event or series of events. Two. The yield of a growing season. Three. To gather.
Shepard. They know you. They wish you to understand. They are shepherds, too.

[Fyurian2]

Anyone bothered to ask why Luzarius advertises the same thing in each of his posts, instead of putting into his signature?