465 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Asriel]

Birds got to fly, fish got to swim, OP has to troll. And thus is the delicate balance of life maintained.

[CaptainZaysh]

Talogrungi wrote...

Lots of speculation for everyone; I read that text and immediately think "that's the ramblings of an insane mind suffering under the self-justification of Reaper indoctrination".

Sure as hell doesn't sound like a preserved consciousness to me.

Well, most of the people in the thread about it seemed to think it referred to the Derelict Reaper.

[JasonDaPsycho]

They "preserve" some of the more advanced organics so technically they don't commit genocide, while leaving the more primitive ones intact.

This however doesn't change their intentions, which are still ridiculous. You haven't debunked that part. You're as biased as what you claim the creators of these pictures are.

[Ice Cold J]

Although I agree, this seems such a roundabout ending that I have to join with the "Yo Dawg" posters.

It can go on in infinite iterations.

I don't want you get get your driver's license and die in a car crash, so I'm going to kill you. When your little brother gets to be your age, I will kill him so the same doesn't happen to him.

It's still more or less the same argument, Odds are the primitive species are eventually going to become advanced, so you're not SPARING them so much as you're POSTPONING their destruction.

Yes, the Reapers are the "uplifted/harvested/ascended" races, but it is still death as we know it. We now become a single cell in a giant, hive-minded organism.

[Talogrungi]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

Lots of speculation for everyone; I read that text and immediately think "that's the ramblings of an insane mind suffering under the self-justification of Reaper indoctrination".

Sure as hell doesn't sound like a preserved consciousness to me.

Well, most of the people in the thread about it seemed to think it referred to the Derelict Reaper.

That doesn't really answer the question though .. it's been essentially proven (more than once) that supposedly derelict Reaper tech can still indoctrinate people who come into contact with. Like much of ME3's logic, it's too vague to prove either way.

[chester013]

Blah blah I'm smart blah blah I'm right blah blah everyone else is an idiot blah blah meaningless percentage. Do go away you relentless bore. It's a joke, a parody, doesn't have to be totally accurate to be funny or have a grain of truth in it.

Want a hard fact? One that's 100% true and not up for debate?

Nobody like a humourless pedant.

[parrmi22]

It doesn't matter. Eventually those same pre-flight species will develop FTL, and the cycle will begin again. EVERY sapient, organic species is eventually harvested, so why even bother waiting until they develop space flight? Why not just kill them all? It would save the Reapers a lot of time.

[CaptainZaysh]

Ice Cold J wrote...

I don't want you get get your driver's license and die in a car crash, so I'm going to kill you. When your little brother gets to be your age, I will kill him so the same doesn't happen to him.

If you were an AI designed to prevent people from dying in car accidents, that would actually be a hugely efficient solution to the problem.

You'd need some kind of supergoal to stop you from doing that: "Don't kill humans", for instance.  That would be fine if you were a road safety AI.

But if you were an AI designed to prevent the Singularity, it may well be that you'd need to kill certain organics in order to prevent that.  So you'd need to be programmed with more complex kill/don't kill algorithms.

My suspicion is that (a simplified version of the) supergoal for the Catalyst was "preserve advanced organic civilisation".  I think the Reaperification process was something it invented or co-opted in order to allow it to kill everyone without violating that constraint.

AIs mistakingly elevating subgoals over supergoals are one of the biggest fears about the things.  I find it a hugely interesting idea that the thing that has been wiping out organic civilisations for millions or billions of years is our ancestor civilisation's Singularity Police.

[Fliprot]

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

It's a joke image. A meme. And here you are with your superiority complex acting all high and mighty for "debunking" it.

In fact, I'm having trouble taking you seriously. Best you come down off your high horse.

This a thousand times.

[Leafs43]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

I don't want you get get your driver's license and die in a car crash, so I'm going to kill you. When your little brother gets to be your age, I will kill him so the same doesn't happen to him.

If you were an AI designed to prevent people from dying in car accidents, that would actually be a hugely efficient solution to the problem.

You'd need some kind of supergoal to stop you from doing that: "Don't kill humans", for instance.  That would be fine if you were a road safety AI.

But if you were an AI designed to prevent the Singularity, it may well be that you'd need to kill certain organics in order to prevent that.  So you'd need to be programmed with more complex kill/don't kill algorithms.

My suspicion is that (a simplified version of the) supergoal for the Catalyst was "preserve advanced organic civilisation".  I think the Reaperification process was something it invented or co-opted in order to allow it to kill everyone without violating that constraint.

AIs mistakingly elevating subgoals over supergoals are one of the biggest fears about the things.  I find it a hugely interesting idea that the thing that has been wiping out organic civilisations for millions or billions of years is our ancestor civilisation's Singularity Police.

No, that would be a VI.



An AI is capable of independent thought.  Acting like an AI is nothing more than a factory machine being controlled by a set of perameters is wrong on so many lveles.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

So then you agree that all sentient life should be murdered every 50,000 years.

[VerdantSF]

My problem wasn't so much with the circular logic, because all villains come up with bull**** justifications for their villainy.  My issue was with the ease my Shepard accepted the Catalyst's conclusions despite witnessing a synthetic and organic fall in love *and* the prime non-Reaper synthetics of the cycle becoming allies.  

[I can Hackett]

RLesueur wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

We know, the pictures are a simplified image to express displeasure at the endings. End.

Simplified for simple minds. Thus proving me 100% correct.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

Omg lmao Ive never laughed so hard in my life thank you for this

[FS3D]

Why are people insisting on feeding an attention-seeking troll? Come on! This is a guy who clearly believes the IQ is an acceptably-accurate measurement of a person's intelligence!

[ZodiEmish]

Luzarius wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

We know, the pictures are a simplified image to express displeasure at the endings. End.

Simplified for simple minds. Thus proving me 100% correct.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

Interesting. The Trolls who attack us must really be grapsing for straws if they have to resport to attacking an silly over the top internet meme that is meant to make people laugh.

[Fnordamatic]

CaptainZaysh wrote...


The common suggestion is that it could just come in and wipe out the synthetics we create, although of course that does sound more complicated and liable to failure than stopping us from reaching the necessary tech level in the first place.  It has the benefit of not requiring a galactic-scale genocide, but there are all kinds of reasons why that might not bother an AI.

Well, assuming the starkid IS an AI. If he is, then his modus operandi kind of contradicts his entire argument, does it not? If he's an AI that wants to save organics, then his very existence is proof that not all synthetics end up wishing to destroy organics. Personally, I think he's something else.

In many ways that could actually be the way it views Ascension.  

Could be, yes. I'm prepared to accept that an AI or some "other" being with a distorted view of reality would consider reaper-assimilation to be a viable option to "preserve" organics. But of course, if he's an AI then that ends up contradicting the point I just made.

Or perhaps Starkid been waiting eons for the right species (humanity) or individual (Shepard) to come along and provide an element that he is incapable of creating in order to initiate the next phase of evolution (Synthesis). And in order to do that, entire species must be tested... In a sort of "Cosmic Crucible", if you will. :innocent:

That's not the objective

Isn't it? It sure seems that way (within the context of an alien-mind, that is).

, and a guy with "Fnord" in his handle ought to know better than to use language to misdirect.

Or maybe that's exactly what I would do!

Modifié par Fnordamatic, 28 mars 2012 - 04:30 .

[footbutt]

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

It's a joke image. A meme.

and i laugh every time i see it!

[EmGo]

 ... why did you feel the need to analyze that? O_O

That picture just simplfy the idea. Also it's not meant to be factual, but to be funny. Christ O_O

[Nerevar-as]

parrmi22 wrote...

It doesn't matter. Eventually those same pre-flight species will develop FTL, and the cycle will begin again. EVERY sapient, organic species is eventually harvested, so why even bother waiting until they develop space flight? Why not just kill them all? It would save the Reapers a lot of time.

The only answer I can think of is to see if their development makes them worthy of being "elevated" to Reaper status. If I got it right those who aren´t are turned into not aware weapons. I´d like to see Starkid defend that one too.

[Nashiktal]

The op's signature annoys me enough to completely lost track of any points he may have made. Erasing the divider that separates the signature from the main post leads me to read as if it was part of the post itself.

Annoying, rude, and thus inclines me to believe whatever point you may have been making must not be worth the effort to read it.

[RLesueur]

Element40 wrote...

RLesueur wrote...

No guys, he's just so smart we need to take -at least three days- just to understand this.

I mean think about it, what he's saying means that all the faith we've placed in Yo Dawg Guy might be misplaced. This...this changes -everything-.

I don't think limited intellects like our own that aren't used to talking to 50-60 people at one time super fast, can possibly understand this without a few days of thought.

Don't be sarcastic... OP already proved he doesnt understand sattire or sarcasm
He probably thinks you are totally serious about his "intellect"

I'm British, sarcasm is all I have.

[EmEr77]

Luzarius wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

We know, the pictures are a simplified image to express displeasure at the endings. End.

Simplified for simple minds. Thus proving me 100% correct.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

So, get down off your high horse, because I fully believe you cannot hear logic from how high up you are.

Let me go ahead and simplify the broken logic of the Star Child for you. Some of those memes, are actually not quite that far off.

It's called circular reasoning--in speech writing it's part of a family called logical fallacies. Logical fallacies are when the writer of the speech (or story) doesn't do his or her homework very well, and sticks something in that sounds plausible, but has no strong foundation to support it. 

Circular reasoning is particularly dangerous because it sincerely looks as if there is something reasonably logical there, but again, as with all logical fallacies, there just isn't. 

The Star Child tells us it used to belong to a race of organics that created synthetics, who then began on a rampant killing spree of all organic life. In order to preserve some sort of organic life, the Star Child's species merged with machine in the most horrifying manner possible, in order to be able to successfully beat back the synthetics], in order to keep them from making the same mistake. Keep in mind, that this civilization is now in Reaper form--or some kind of synthetic form. Destroying organic life. 

What happened was that they became the very thing they hate, in order to save the galaxy from the very thing they hate. Then they decided they were going go ahead and do the very thing they were afraid that we'd end up doing to ourselves. 

Flawed logic? Completely. But the Reapers wouldn't have an issue if we all killed each other off using synthetic materials--weapons, ships, mechanized armor, VI targeting or controls, etc... only of we create sentient synthetic life do they care. And they're just going to go ahead and ignore the success with the Geth, because... that wouldn't fit with the cruddy ending. 

You also, actually, debunked nothing. All you did is throw out a red herring (another logical fallacy) to knock us off track from the fact that your logic is established on a foundation as fragile as the intelligence of Twilight fans.

Modifié par EmEr77, 28 mars 2012 - 04:46 .

[Tritium315]

This is some impressive dedication to trolling.

[ZodiEmish]

[Vigil_N7]

Guaranteed extinction of the advance organics every 50,000 years without fail OR the possibility (nothing is confirmed) of extinction to all organic life permanently.

I'd think organics would prefer to take their chances with the synthetics in all honesty.