465 réponses à ce sujet

[michael99887766]

Logic fail. How have you debunked anything?

Aside from the fact that this is only one small example of the Catalyst's own lack of sense, your argument doesn't hold up. It's still pretty stupid to harvest advanced organics in the name of saving the primitive ones, if you are subsequently going to harvest those primitive ones when they evolve.

[BatmanPWNS]

They were made with comedy in mind. I find them to be funny, personally.

[VerdantSF]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

Guaranteed extinction of the advance organics every 50,000 years without fail OR the possibility (nothing is confirmed) of extinction to all organic life permanently.

I'd think organics would prefer to take their chances with the synthetics in all honesty.

Vigil ftw.

[shinobi602]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

If you were an AI designed to prevent people from dying in car accidents, that would actually be a hugely efficient solution to the problem.

You'd need some kind of supergoal to stop you from doing that: "Don't kill humans", for instance.  That would be fine if you were a road safety AI.

But if you were an AI designed to prevent the Singularity, it may well be that you'd need to kill certain organics in order to prevent that.  So you'd need to be programmed with more complex kill/don't kill algorithms.

My suspicion is that (a simplified version of the) supergoal for the Catalyst was "preserve advanced organic civilisation".  I think the Reaperification process was something it invented or co-opted in order to allow it to kill everyone without violating that constraint.

AIs mistakingly elevating subgoals over supergoals are one of the biggest fears about the things.  I find it a hugely interesting idea that the thing that has been wiping out organic civilisations for millions or billions of years is our ancestor civilisation's Singularity Police.

 The Catalyst makes the assumption that "synthetics will ALWAYS rebel against their creators." Yet, in the entire ME franchise, we see no evidence of this happening. Nothing even alludes to it in the slightest.

In fact, Bioware went out of its way to show the exact opposite via the Geth & Quarians. Never did the Geth show hostile intentions. In fact everything we were given about them showed their peacefulness. And what happens in ME3? The Geth keep Rannoch ready for their creators to return to for over 300 years and help them rebuild, etc.

The fact that your arguments begin with "if" and "my suspicion" and "It could be" is a testament to how terrible it all is.

[Orthodox Infidel]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...
The only exceptions to this rule are trivial events where all relevant variables are known perfectly in advance, such as your odds of winning the lottery.

That doesn't seem to be correct to me.  Let's say we have two kingdoms which will exist in perpetuity (or, at the very least, for the next 3-5 billion years).  One is vastly more powerful than the other and has the capability to destroy it.

Aren't the odds of it at some point developing the intent basically 1?

That's different on multiple levels.

We know what kingdoms are; by definition, part of what they do is engage in war. We have seen wars before and understand them kind of well. We might be able to make an informed guess as to that, but we couldn't claim to actually know the probability. We certainly couldn't claim, as the boy does, that they are certain to fight. Whereas we've never seen synthetics wipe out all organic life in the galaxy, ever. I don't think that the knowledge required to make that claim can be possessed by anything other than an omnisicent being, and the boy is self-evidently not omniscient.

Also, the United States is vastly more powerful than many existing countries today. I think it is uncontroversial to claim that the United States has the capability to destroy Canada. Or Mexico. Or any individual country in Europe. Yet these things don't happen. The United States has eliminated many other countries, but the difference in power was not the primary motivation for it to do so.

[Xenoaroe]

This guy is as skilled at debunking stuff as Zak Bagans

[CPTHughJardon]

i was going to post a big response as the one thing i really despise in life is people who be-little other's to make themselves feel superior.this guy is so intelligent that he feels the need to attack a meme,wow move over professor hawkins.now i will keep my argument short and simple:

if the star childs logic is solid explain this to me.why are the krogan harvested but the yahg spared?

that is all

Modifié par CPTHughJardon, 28 mars 2012 - 04:43 .

[I am KROGAN]

RLesueur wrote...

I actually watched this guy finish Mass Effect 3. He's okay with the ending because he got one that pandered exactly to his character.

That's cool and stuff, but I'm not sure why he's arguing with a meme.

Exactly, that entire stream I was thinking: "Holy hell, if he picks destroy he will literally have picked an ending that perfectly fits his playthrough."  It's a damn shame that this "perfect" ending caused him to ignore all the plotholes.

OP, can you explain the plotholes/the ending in general since you seem to understand it and I don't?  Seriously, I want to understand it.

[InfiniteDemise]

I'm not sure which is more pathetically entertaining: the OP or his lackwit lick-spittle lackeys.

Modifié par InfiniteDemise, 28 mars 2012 - 04:49 .

[Fnordamatic]

CPTHughJardon wrote...


if the star childs logic is solid explain this to me.why are the krogan harvested but the yahg spared?

that is all

The Krogan are technological but the yahg are still a primitive species. The Reapers leave the less developed species alone.

(Don't interpret this as me defending the star childs logic btw)

[Baronesa]

Xenoaroe wrote...

This guy is as skilled at debunking stuff as Zak Bagans

His debunking style reminds me of Kirk Cameron... "A crocoduck!"

[AlexXIV]

Well OP you made a fool of yourself without breaking a sweat. That's some accomplishment.

As people said, yes it is a simplification/exaggeration to mock the idea.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 28 mars 2012 - 04:55 .

[spacefiddle]

How did your AI-hating Shepard justify trusting the Crucible AI at the end?

Wait, let me borrow your indisputible debating technique:

How did your AI-hating Shepard justify trusting the Crucible AI at the end?

Modifié par spacefiddle, 28 mars 2012 - 04:57 .

[Kanon777]

parrmi22 wrote...

It doesn't matter. Eventually those same pre-flight species will develop FTL, and the cycle will begin again. EVERY sapient, organic species is eventually harvested, so why even bother waiting until they develop space flight? Why not just kill them all? It would save the Reapers a lot of time.

Holy crap, have you ever heard of evolution? Its perfectly reasonable to think that new developed species will keep coming over and over again forever.  

[spacefiddle]

FS3D wrote...

Why are people insisting on feeding an attention-seeking troll? Come on! This is a guy who clearly believes the IQ is an acceptably-accurate measurement of a person's intelligence!

If it is, I'd be willing to bet mine's about 150% his.

[Taboo]

spacefiddle wrote...

FS3D wrote...

Why are people insisting on feeding an attention-seeking troll? Come on! This is a guy who clearly believes the IQ is an acceptably-accurate measurement of a person's intelligence!

If it is, I'd be willing to bet mine's about 150% his.

This.

[Kanon777]

FS3D wrote...

Why are people insisting on feeding an attention-seeking troll? Come on! This is a guy who clearly believes the IQ is an acceptably-accurate measurement of a person's intelligence!

It is...

[ScotGaymer]

Why is this still going?

Why isnt it locked?

Jeez. Stop posting people!

[Cpl_Facehugger]

[quote]Luzarius wrote...

[quote]Reapers only harvest advanced civilizations [/b][/i]and leave the primitive civilizations alone. The picture does not acknowledge this, thus proving the picture is a "biased" point of view with a "negative" agenda. There is no truth in this picture, only a lack of understanding of the ME universe.[/quote]

I don't exactly see how that matters? The pictures never say "all" organics. What it does say is thus: Catalyst allegedly didn't want synthetics to rise up and exterminate organics. So Catalyst made synthetics to kill organics every fifty thousand years. That the catalyst's synthetics don't kill all organics is irrelevant.

3/10 on your debunking.

[quote]Anyone with an IQ of at least 90 should understand the above statement.   If the reapers only harvest advanced civilizations what does that mean? Think about it.[/quote]

"Yo dawg, I heard you don't want to be killed by synthetics. So I made some synthetics to kill you once you reach a certain stage of development while leaving cave dwellers alone." 

Modifié par Cpl_Facehugger, 28 mars 2012 - 05:29 .

[Fenrisfil]

The cycle was planned to continue indefinitely, eventually all organics get wiped out because at some point various factors kick in (nothing but the dimmest longest burning suns left to provide energy, then nothing but black holes) that makes the universe too unstable for anything but the most advanced civilisations to survive. The last organics to die will be an advanced civilisation killed by the Reapers. So actually, the Reapers will kill all organics eventually.

Also OP, you missed the point, quite deliberately I suspect. Obvious troll is obvious.

[usmack5]

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

It's a joke image. A meme. And here you are with your superiority complex acting all high and mighty for "debunking" it.

In fact, I'm having trouble taking you seriously. Best you come down off your high horse.

You can already tell the guy is a troll by looking at his picture: Udina is the ultimate tool of the series.

[ZodiEmish]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Why is this still going?

Why isnt it locked?

Jeez. Stop posting people!

More people need to report for his trolling

[bly2425]

So... circular logic works because circular logic works.

[Ziggeh]

Luzarius wrote...
Anyone with an IQ of at least 90 should understand the above statement.   If the reapers only harvest advanced civilizations what does that mean? Think about it.

You're right, that is simple. It means they kill a whole bunch of organics to stop a whole bunch of organics being killed.

Despite being reductive Mr Xzibit's statement is entirely accurate, they are killing to prevent killing. True, it doesn't acknowledge that some are left alive, or any of the nuance, moral or otherwise, but that's sort of the point.

I think it rather highlights the fact that while God Boy places quite a bit of value on the continued existence of organic life in the abstract, it doesn't seem to place much value in actual organics.

[spacefiddle]

ZodiEmish wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Why is this still going?

Why isnt it locked?

Jeez. Stop posting people!

More people need to report for his trolling

I did, yesterday or the day before. Trolling and spewing abuse and insults at people is apparently A-OK as long as you are pro-ending.

I actually tried contacting Luz via his twitter, thinking some troll had stolen his name for this garbage, but got no reply.  My impression after watching his playthrough was that he was an upbeat and positive kinda person who wouldn't come to a forum just for the purpose of barfing all over people and claiming his intelligence to be superior to all.  Guess I was wrong

Also, the picture is what we call a "parody."  You cannot "debunk" a parody.  A myth, or a theory, or a belief can be debunked, as it is a synonym for "disproven."  Comedy cannot be disproven.  Since you're a supreme intelligence, Luz, I'm surprised you could make such a weird mistake.

More also, how did your AI-hating Shepard justify trusting the Crucible AI?

Ziggeh wrote...
Despite being reductive Mr Xzibit's statement is entirely accurate,

This is the best opening of a sentence ever written in the English language.

Modifié par spacefiddle, 28 mars 2012 - 05:17 .