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Debunking the "Yo Dawg, synthetics" picture without breaking a sweat.


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#101
JulienJaden

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Luzarius wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

We know, the pictures are a simplified image to express displeasure at the endings. End.


Simplified for simple minds. Thus proving me 100% correct.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"


Congratulations, you don't get the parody (and instead are being arrogant and insulting) and you don't seem to understand that what God Child says still makes absolutely no sense, not even for a machine.


The Problem: 
Make sure that Synthetics never wipe out all life in the galaxy.

Solution 1:
Create a race of guardians that patrol the galaxy constantly, eliminating synthetics as they go. Said race would also inform every sufficiently developed race about this threat and hold out the prospect of being wiped out as a punishment if they invented such synthetics to make sure they can never do that again.
Sentient races would understand the threat and reasoning, if they are sufficiently informed. Being diplomatic and not too strict about the "wiping out as a punishment" thing (i.e. only going through with it in very severe cases) would probably make the cause even easier to present and secure maintenance of order.
Communicating with sentient races is key for success in this solution and will guarantee success.

Solution 2:
Create the same race as in Solution 1. Make them leave the galaxy, come back every 50.000 years and wipe every advanced race from the face of the galaxy, whether they create synthetics or not. Don't leave any trace so that nobody knows what happens, why they were wiped out or what threat synthetics may become. Also, don't make them too thorough (the Protheans on Ilos hid successfully, so the Reapers can overlook something); make said race ignore the possibility that advanced synthetics may survive the cycle and devote the next 50.000 years to eliminating all organics. Also ignore that most synthetics sophisticated enough to pose a threat to all life would probably be more interested in studying life, rather than eliminating it in its entirety. Don't let anyone named Shepard present you with irrefutable evidence of lasting peace between organics and synthetics.
Odds of resistance during every cycle: 100%. Odds of traces being overlooked: 100%. Odds of eventual destruction of guardian race because of stupidity of solution, compared to other solution: 100%.


Obviously, the Catalyst chose Solution 2 instead of 1. They would have had to set up such a 'plot twist' by a completely different approach. The cycle doesn't fit the goal, and vice versa. With them hybernating for such a long time, the simplest explanation would be self-preservation: They procreate by harvesting species, leaving those too primitive to realize what's going on for next time, also taking whatever advanced technology was developed to improve themselves, then destroying all evidence so that the next cycle is just as unprepared.
That makes them the dominant species in the galaxy, the rulers of a galaxy-spanning empire without having to actually maintain it.

So much for debunking without breaking a sweat.

Modifié par JulienJaden, 28 mars 2012 - 01:04 .


#102
jb1983

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Xenoaroe wrote...

 Image IPB


Xenoaroe wins the internet

#103
Xandurpein

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tobito113 wrote...

Alexraptor1 wrote...

You are aware that the whole Organics vs Synthetics cycle is a brand new thing that snuck into ME3 and is NOT the original vision and concept of the ME trilogy? Right?


Are you kidding me? Did you forget EVERYTHING Saren said to justify his actions? Its not a new concept, its one of the many concepts that where on the table but the dark energy stuff was NOT the only one...


And paragon Shepard convinced Saren that the whole premise was wrong, that it was part of the indoctrination. The ending of Mass Effect 3 is as if Shepard had conceded that Saren probably was correct on Virmire and accepted Saren's solution.

#104
Luzarius

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jb1983 wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

FabricatedWookie wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

We know, the pictures are a simplified image to express displeasure at the endings. End.


Simplified for simple minds. Thus proving me 100% correct.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"



http://blog.ted.com/...urray_gellmann/ 

Mind you, this is to counter your "simplified for simple minds" jab. Which is out of place, and uneccesary. 


Can you give me a summary of your primary points from this thread?

I have a feeling if I devote the next two weeks to understanding the ted arguments they may prove that you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just posting a random link to make yourself look smarter.

If I were you. I would usually point out a few primary arguments, then simplify them so they can reach a wider audience quickly. Hence you'll be able to get your point across quicker.  Life is about getting your thoughts across quickly, surely you know this.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"


If I were you (comma, not period), I would use proper grammar and spelling before criticizing people's intelligence. 


I'm responding to multiple people at once in a short duration of time.

I need you to autocorrect my mistakes and understand the underlying arguments i'm presenting. Can you handle that? If not, then directly point out which argument you couldn't understand and I will clarify.

You've proven you're fishing for a counter since you have no viable counter argument. NEXT.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

#105
NeecHMonkeY

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Damn, I really thought the "Yo Dawg" image was official canon. :(

#106
Kanon777

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Baronesa wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

So? How is advocating for genocide means that youre illogical/contradictory? The reapers might have a morality issue (they are machines after all) but it dosent mean their actions are illogical...


Because their premise is false.

It was shown to be false IN GAME.

The premise is the created will ALWAYS rebel against the creators... if you put always there and ther eis only 1 instance on which that is not true, the whole thing falls to pieces And we have 2 instances: EDI and the Geth



Yeah because two cases where it dosent happen trumps the milions of years of perspective the reapers have...

BTW listen to Javik speech on why machines and organics cant coexist (even if you side with the geth in the game) 
 

Millions of years of experience, they might be extremists but they arent being illogical...

#107
Denora

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Elyiia wrote...

We know, the pictures are a simplified image to express displeasure at the endings. End.


Agreed

#108
Luzarius

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Xenoaroe wrote...

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LOL the problem is this Meme is used in blogs that were meant to be taken seriously lol.

Once again you've proven you have the mind of someone who skips dialogue in the game.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

#109
Foxhound2121

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tobito113 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Must... resist ... urge .. to .. apply ... The Catalyst... logic ... to ..real... life... instances ...to .. show how broken it is...


This is no diferent than a doctor who removes someones leg to avoid an infection. Or removes a tumor to avoid killing the entire body with cancer. Its perfectly logical for reapers point of view. (inteligent life = tumor/infected leg)

The only problem here is that they "remove the tumors" even without complete proof that the body was damaged beyond repair . That makes them EXTREMISTS not ilogical/contradictory.


That assumes that you could catagorize all intelligent life as a dangerous tumor, and you can't. Nobody can make a sweeping generalization like that. Even highly advanced machines can't make a sweeping generalization like that. The time derived for such a conclusion and the time where it is put it into effect is not nearly enough for such a decision. Not to mention the infinite possibilities of life itself. That's like someone from Earth claiming that all intelligent life will be bipedal.

Modifié par Foxhound2121, 28 mars 2012 - 01:08 .


#110
Oakenshield1

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Yeah, I guess you're right. the starchild isn't as much as a genocidal maniac as the pics make him out to be. He leaves the stupid organics alone. Still kills trillions of sentient beings, but our bad.

#111
translationninja

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I think the bad endings drove OP over the edge...

#112
Alexraptor1

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tobito113 wrote...

Alexraptor1 wrote...

You are aware that the whole Organics vs Synthetics cycle is a brand new thing that snuck into ME3 and is NOT the original vision and concept of the ME trilogy? Right?


Are you kidding me? Did you forget EVERYTHING Saren said to justify his actions? Its not a new concept, its one of the many concepts that where on the table but the dark energy stuff was NOT the only one... 

As far as i remember ME1 came before ME2, so there was much more foreshadow. And the dark energy was just a minor comment in the middle of a mission in ME2.

So the ME3 concept had more foreshadow than the dark energy one


My point is "the cycle" was never about destroying advanced civilizations to prevent synthetics from rising and wiping out all organic life in the galaxy.
That is something they made up for ME3.

#113
tiger-tron

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The pictures' point still stands. It was overly simplified, but when it came down to it, that was the reason behind the Reapers. Pure and simple.

#114
Subject M

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@OP
Perhaps it should be like:

YO DAWG I KNOW YOUR ADVANCED CIVILIZATIONS ARE PROBABLY GONNA BE WIPED OUT AND ALL THAT **** BY SYNTHETICS, SO DON'T GO TRIPPIN IF WE DO IT BETTER AND PRESERVE YOUR GENETIC **** CODE DOIN IT. ITS NOT LIKE YO GONNA MAKE PEACE N ALL...

Modifié par Subject M, 28 mars 2012 - 01:14 .


#115
Elyiia

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tobito113 wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

So? How is advocating for genocide means that youre illogical/contradictory? The reapers might have a morality issue (they are machines after all) but it dosent mean their actions are illogical...


Because their premise is false.

It was shown to be false IN GAME.

The premise is the created will ALWAYS rebel against the creators... if you put always there and ther eis only 1 instance on which that is not true, the whole thing falls to pieces And we have 2 instances: EDI and the Geth



Yeah because two cases where it dosent happen trumps the milions of years of perspective the reapers have...

BTW listen to Javik speech on why machines and organics cant coexist (even if you side with the geth in the game) 
 

Millions of years of experience, they might be extremists but they arent being illogical...



Millions of years of experience WHERE IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED.

#116
rexx1888

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Xenoaroe wrote...

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^^^this

also, op is a git.

i really think we should all just call him a git an stop trying to talk to him, he wont listen, hell just keep spouting his semi religious nonsense at us :|

#117
Xenoaroe

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Luzarius wrote...

Xenoaroe wrote...

 Image IPB


LOL the problem is this Meme is used in blogs that were meant to be taken seriously lol.

Once again you've proven you have the mind of someone who skips dialogue in the game.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"



You gotta talk down to everyone more, brah. All we see is:

Luzarius wrote... 
lol [logic above our puny minds] lol

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset" 

 

#118
Luzarius

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Alexraptor1 wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Alexraptor1 wrote...

You are aware that the whole Organics vs Synthetics cycle is a brand new thing that snuck into ME3 and is NOT the original vision and concept of the ME trilogy? Right?


Are you kidding me? Did you forget EVERYTHING Saren said to justify his actions? Its not a new concept, its one of the many concepts that where on the table but the dark energy stuff was NOT the only one... 

As far as i remember ME1 came before ME2, so there was much more foreshadow. And the dark energy was just a minor comment in the middle of a mission in ME2.

So the ME3 concept had more foreshadow than the dark energy one


My point is "the cycle" was never about destroying advanced civilizations to prevent synthetics from rising and wiping out all organic life in the galaxy.
That is something they made up for ME3.


This thing you call "made up" actually fits with the logic of a leader who controls the reapers.  Had you assessed harbinger and sovereign properly you would of identified a puppet, not an entity with free will.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

#119
GnusmasTHX

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#120
Kanon777

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Xandurpein wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Alexraptor1 wrote...

You are aware that the whole Organics vs Synthetics cycle is a brand new thing that snuck into ME3 and is NOT the original vision and concept of the ME trilogy? Right?


Are you kidding me? Did you forget EVERYTHING Saren said to justify his actions? Its not a new concept, its one of the many concepts that where on the table but the dark energy stuff was NOT the only one...


And paragon Shepard convinced Saren that the whole premise was wrong, that it was part of the indoctrination. The ending of Mass Effect 3 is as if Shepard had conceded that Saren probably was correct on Virmire and accepted Saren's solution.


Awsome, you chose to DISAGREE with the reapers on moral grounds, but their opinion is not illogical/contradictory its just something you dont agree with

On the other side thinking that it MIGHT be possible to have peace with organics is not illogcal/contradictory either, its an issue of morality and how far you are willing to go to stop something from happening.

You be can an extremist who thinks peace can only be achieved trough destruction (reapers) or you can trust the geth/edi to never go to war against organics(paragon Sheppard). Both sides have their evidences and since neither can predict the future it becomes an issue or morality, not logic.

#121
Bantz

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ok maybe i missed it but where are those meme pics wrong? Humans, asari, and all don't want to be killed by synthetics yet the catalyst created synthetics to kill us so we don't create synthetics that will kill us. None of those meme say that the reapers are killing ALL organic life, just us and we do'nt want to be killed.

#122
Ultra Prism

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picture defines the ending ... and everyone knows only advanced coz it is emphasized in the story ... but thats yo dawg is the logic of the stupid catalyst

#123
Xenoaroe

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GnusmasTHX wrote...

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*stands up and starts slow clap*

#124
anlk92

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tobito113 wrote...

So? How is advocating for genocide means that youre illogical/contradictory? The reapers might have a morality issue (they are machines after all) but it dosent mean their actions are illogical...


It is illogical because the game does not show us why this stupid solution was the best they could come up with. It does not show us why there was a need for a solution in the first place. But instead of these it still expects the player to accept this genocidal maniac as a superior entity and doesn't let you question its goal but only its way of attaining it. And then the game proceeds to forcing you to pick one of the three horrible choices offered by it.

Mass Effect 3 is like a WW2 game where at the end you have to choose between taking control of the **** army, turning the entire world into aryans and destroying the **** army along with every single Jew.

#125
Kalas82

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Luzarius wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

We know, the pictures are a simplified image to express displeasure at the endings. End.


Simplified for simple minds. Thus proving me 100% correct.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"


Obvious troll is obvious , but you get 2/10 for the effort.