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Out of the dark age: relays, FTL and rebuilding galactic civilization


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#1
Ieldra

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What this is about:
With the end of ME3, Bioware plunged the galaxy into a dark age where galactic civilization is fragmented. I don't want it. I'm sure there are quite a few others who don't want it. We can't make it go away, but we can try to keep it short. This is an attempt to provide a plausible framework for the rebuilding of galactic civilization in a reasonable timeframe for each of the three "Earth is OK" endings. Everyone is invited to participate.

Other threads dealing with similar problems:
MyChemicalBromance's "We are not as primitive as you think.
MyChemicalBromance's The four problems with rebuilding galactic civlization.
(to be extended)

Proposed ground rules:
(1) Put a positive spin on things.
We want to get out of the dark age, not wallow in it. Most intelligent organic life in the galaxy destroyed because of the relay explosions? Doesn't happen, the Crucible didn't work that way. Dextro-protein-based species starving? Find a way around it (see below for an example).
(2) All endings are good endings (as far as any one can be considered good).
Don't try to force a negative interpretation of endings you don't like. Instead put a positive spin on endings you do like.
(3) Keep characters out of things.
This is worldbuilding not fanfic. Who does what isn't important, only that it's done, and players' endgame scenarios are too different in that regard anyway.
(4) No Reaper actions.
The Reapers are either dead or gone. In Control and Synthesis, they may have left a few goodies behind, but I don't think it's in the spirit of the story that just ended to posit something like "The Reapers help rebuilding the mass relays".

Now into the details....

Solutions to problems common to all of the three "good" endings:


(1) The planet in the stargazer epilogue
....is a lost colony. The Normandy can't be the only ship whose crew observed what happened and got caught in-transit. Anyway, whether you think it's the same planet the Normandy stranded on or not, it's just one planet. It says nothing about how the rest of the galaxy recovered from the war. Otherwise, the fate of the Normandy is not a topic we're dealing with here.  

(2) The state of Earth
Most of Earth's big cities will be depopulated. Many will lie in ruins. However, there's no reason to assume they'll all lie in ruins, because it's the fighting that does the damage. As Anderson said, the resistance abandoned the cities early since the Reaper presence there was too strong. Which means that quite a bit of Earth's urban infrastructure will be largely intact or easily repaired. The Reapers weren't interested in destroying infrastructure, they were after people. Also the rural areas, which produce most of the food, will likely remain mostly intact.
Earth's population will have dropped by a few billion people, and while that's a sad thing, it also means there is enough space for the survivors and the people of the allied fleet. See below for more about that

(3) Turians and quarians and dextro-food.
Food problems? Quarian liveships will be able to provide food as they always did. I'd think they could be convinced to share with the turians. Apart from that, Dextro-aminoacids shouldn't be that hard to produce, even in industrial quantities. There will be some shortages - there always are after a war - but the problem will be surmountable.

(4) Communication
There will be no instant cutoff of galaxy-wide communication. Why? QE devices. Many ships will have them and some will exist on Earth, too. While refueling them will be impossible for the foreseeable future, many of the non-humans and colonials will be able to call home, tell the story of what happened in the Sol System and be told what happened in other places. Vidcomm will be restricted since that uses too much bandwidth (bandwidth is one-time for QE devices), telegram-style messages will remain possible for some time, depending on how strictly the restrictions are enforced.
The people in the Sol System will probably have the most complete picture of what happened around the galaxy it is possible to have under these circumstances.

(5) Star travel, short-term perspective
Non-relay FTL still works (the line about Destroying destroying "most of the technology you rely on" is restricted to low-EMS endings. We are not talking about those here). A "typical" travelling speed is 12ly/day (source: ME:Revelation). Logistics problems are addressed as follows:
(1) Eezo makes up the drive cores and is not consumed as "fuel". Source: Codex. There is mention of ships using the same core for two decades and not mention at all of attrition.
(2) Fuel: starship thrusters use antiproton drives (combat only) and fusion torches. Antiproton drives will most likely be not viable for long-range expeditions because antimatter production needs gigantic facilities. Fusion torches need only helium-3, though, which can be found at any gas giant and collected using a refinery ship. 
(3) Drive core discharge: can be done at any gas giant or any other celestial body with a magnetic field. Given the star density around Sol (which is low), there are over 200 stars within the range of the two-day trip a starship can travel without recharging. Since by current estimation, about 40% of all stars have planets and most planets are gas giants, this should present no problem at all.
(4) Food: a long-range expedition fleet would need to be accompanied by a liveship-analogue. The quarians can build them, so others can, too.
The Sol system is in an area with low stellar density, which is about 0.003 stars per cubic light year. That *still* means there are more than 2500 star systems within a range of a 5-day voyage. Since most stars have planets and most planets are gas giants, that means there are plenty of opportunities for drive discharge, refueling and restocking raw materials for repair.
That way, a long range expedition fleet can sustain itself from resources found along the way and travel the galaxy. Though it would take at least 23 years to cross the galaxy.
(I would also remind everyone that because of Newton's first law, the fuel needed by a ship is independent from the distance travelled. Acceleration and deceleration are the limiting factors. There would still be some continuous fuel consumption to maintain the ME core charge and for life support, but not for propulsion. The implementation in the games is just game mechanics)

(6) Resettling our allies. Perspectives for going home.
The only ally with an immediate prospect of going home are the quarians (I wonder if the writers ever thought of how cruel it is to deprive them of  a homeworld they just regained for another 30 years). Mid-term, there may be some asari or krogan who would want to put together a long-range expedition fleet (see above) and go home). Nonetheless, I'm going to assume that most of the allies will be stuck in the local area or decide to stay instead of taking a 30-year trek. So what are we to do with them? You know, the idea of settling, say, the krogan, on Earth is..er....unsettling. Read on...

(7) New worlds? They exist. They can be reached.
Wait.....Isn't it a fact that there aren't any habitable worlds but Earth in the local cluster? Not so fast. The fact is that there aren't any such worlds in a short distance from where the Sol relay was. We are never given travel times, but the sequence of events throughout the games suggest that it can't take more than a few days to travel from a relay to the most remote world in a "cluster" (which isn't really a star cluster, just an area named for convenience).
Now suppose we extend the time we're willing to travel from...hmm....five days to 30 days. Never thought of that? That's how the relays made galactic civilization decadent. 30 days of typical FTL means 360 light-years.....

Star density around Sol is about 0.003 stars per cubic light year. This is LOW, most regions of the galaxy are more densely populated. That means, given a travel speed of 12ly/day, that there are more than half a million stars in reach of a one-month trip, with about 5% of them being G-type stars and another 7% K-type stars. Almost all stars have planets. Plenty of places to refuel, restock raw materials and discharge drives, and it's quite possible there are a few dozen habitable worlds orbiting some of those 70000+ candidate stars.

(8) Rebuilding relays:
Rebuilding a mass relay is a massive undertaking. I would think that it would take a developed world about a century or more, if it's possible at all. Knowledge is not a problem, resources are. Remember, the energy equivalent of a star is bound up in a relay. You could posit it needs a civilization of type II on the Kardashev scale to build a relay. None of the civilizations in the ME universe - even pre-apocalypse ones - are of that type with the possible exception of the geth. I would posit that in the Destroy endings, rebuilding relays is not viable for the foreseeable future, in Control, the relays are only damaged so they may be repaired, and in Synthesis it might be possible that the post-Synthesis civilization acquires the capability to build on that scale rather fast. The question is will they need it or will they find another way. Synthesis is something of a wild card.



Mid-term effects of the final choice on star travel and rebuilding galactic civilization:

Here I'm going into full speculation mode:

Destroy:
I don't think it is in the spirit of the Destroy ending to posit that they'll just rebuild the relays at some point. Instead, I'd propose that the existing technology for FTL travel will be refined to increase its speed by increments, gradually increasing the size of a possible cohesive civilization throughout the centuries. The same will happen with most surviving developed worlds of the pre-Disaster civilization, like Sur'kesh. Contact between the different spheres will exist, since there will always be people who'd risk decade-long travels if they can be reasonably certain there's a habitable place at the other end. Eventually, the different spheres will reconnect to have common "borders". What happens then is anyone's guess. 

Control:
I think the best possible setup for Control scenarios is to assume that the relays are damaged and nonfunctional for the foreseeable future but not destroyed (several threads have hinted at this as a possible interpretation of the differences in the ending cutscenes). After a functional infrastructure has been restored, the surviving developed worlds will this focus their efforts on repairing the relays. Eventually, the civilization that emerges from this scenario will look very similar to the one destroyed by the Crucible. It is also possible that something valuable in terms of technology or knowledge will be salvaged from the Reaper debris flying around in this scenario.

Synthesis:
This is something of a wild card. I'd say it would be in the spirit of this ending to have things go into new and totally unexpected, even exotic directions. In my thread on the Synthesis ending, I have proposed some effects on individuals, but the big picture has largely been ignored. How would a galactic civilization emerge from the Synthesis which is still recognizably "Mass Effect" but radically different from those emerging from the other two scenarios? The legacy of the Old Machines (who aren't Reapers anymore in this scenario) might come into play in unexpected ways. Whatever they left behind may still be "live", but not hostile any more.

Here's what I've come up with regarding new methods of FTL travel that are still noticeably "Mass Effect":

"Mass Effect-initiated self-affecting FTL jump technology":

Principles and limitations:
The general principle for technology within my scenario was "decentralized technology, small is more effective". No more should long-range FTL depend on giant structures that would take a century to build. It was also my goal to provide a plausible incentive towards smaller ships and miniaturization of ship components.. Fortunately, the ME lore provides me with just the right tools (see below).
So that means no more mass-relay-like structures. Ships will have their own built-in long-range FTL capability. But since unlimited long-range FTL is as boring as no long-range FTL is depressing, there need to be limitations.
As a third principle, the new technology should be based on eezo and the "mass effect" because otherwise it wouldn't be Mass Effect, right?

Why not rebuild mass relays?
My proposal uses relay-like technology, so you could ask why not rebuild relays in the first place? I think that the primary problem with rebuilding relays is not knowledge but resources. The energy equivalent of a star's is bound up in a large mass relay. Such a thing would take centuries to build - the expenditure of resources is so immense that there is a big pressure to find alternative solutions.

How it works:
Relay-like functionality in starships:
I propose that it is possible to construct ME core variants for starships that let them create their own "mass-free corridors" (I'm using the lore in full acknowledgement of the fact that this makes no scientific sense). This would effectly be like carrying your own mass relay with you. Miniaturized relay functionality is known since the discovery of the Conduit, and the principles of relay construction are likely well-known as well, or Aethyta couldn't have proposed building new ones in ME2.

Limitation: endpoint only near stars of a minimum size
No artificial structures are needed at the endpoint of an FTL jump, but still you can't just go anywhere. The endpoint of your jump must be at a gravity gradient of a certain minimum steepness. I.e. near a star of a certain minimum mass. In addition, the star must be dense enough because otherwise you'd end up in the star rather than around it. 
Above that minimum mass, any increase in the target's mass will make it reachable from further away. Pulsars and neutron stars make great long-distance targets (i.e. strategic choke points) but also pose some danger to ships because of their tidal effects.
This will create regions of the galaxy which are easier to travel to than others. Regions with mostly old stars (which are small) will be hard to reach, the dense regions of the spiral arms with many hot young stars will be easy to reach. As an example, if the minimum size is the mass of an A1 main sequence star, there will be one star in the solar neighbourhood which can be reached with a long-range jump. The remaining 8ly from Sirius to Sol would have to be traveled using "standard" FTL.

Limitation: ship size
According to the Codex, the required mass for the mass effect core of a ship increases exponentially to its size and its speed. This has a consequence I don't think anyone has thought through yet: There is a theoretical maximum to the size of an FTL-capable starship. Why? Well, because the exponential formula means that if you increase the ships's mass further and further, you inevitably reach a point where the mass of the ME core required to put the ship into FTL becomes greater than the ship's mass!
WIth "standard" FTL, this obviously isn't much of a limitation, otherwise ships like the Destiny Ascension couldn't exist. But suppose that using the new FTL jump technology, the requirements for the ME core are far more restrictive. Just by increasing the basis of the exponential formula, you could arrive at a scenario where the ME cores of a fighter-sized craft must have the mass of the fully loaded ship. Ships even slightly bigger just couldn't be built with long-range FTL capability. I propose that the theoretical maximum for the mass of a FTL jump-capable starship lies around the mass of a fully loaded fighter craft.

Consequences for economics and logistics:
The obvious consequences of such a scenario as easy to see: large ships will be restricted to non-jump "standard" FTL and take a very long time - months or years - to reach distant destinations. This will limit colonization and trade of bulk goods. Colonies will have to be more self-sufficient. On the other hand, trade of valuable low-weight goods will flourish, and communication is easy. Dedicated courier ships, perhaps even in the form of automated drones, will carry news and mail easily over long distances, QE devices can be refueled easily to that galactic civilization is held together. Something like a galaxy-wide extranet will take some time to create because of the expense of QE devices which are the only available way for long-distance instant communcation, but it's by no means impossible.
Individuals and small groups of people will be comparatively mobile, depending on how expensive the ME cores for small starships are. There will be an extreme pressure towards miniaturization of starship components, since the exponential formula means that very small ships are significantly cheaper to build and to operate.


All right, I think this is a good jumpoff point. Now it's everyone else's turn.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 avril 2012 - 10:02 .


#2
Breakdown Boy

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Nice job Ieldra, this sounds like it could get interesting.

#3
Breakdown Boy

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Well I think the first thing would be a mass medical aid situation and recovery. There will be many injured after the big battle and many survivors might be critically wounded.

So I guess Earth would be a good place for all concerned to gather and heal up.

#4
Ieldra

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Ah, two things I forgot to add:

In Control, the Citadel still exists and is mostly intact. That could be a huge boon for the allied fleet, since there will be facilities there for many species, space enough to live for the complete personnel of the fleet and tech resources of all kinds.

In all three endings, Earth could eventually end up as the hub of a new star-spanning civilization. The best minds of the galaxy are present there (those who built the Crucible), all sorts of species as well as the most complete body of knowledge about events in the galaxy it's possible to acquire in this situation - see the Communication part of the OP. Also there will be copious amounts of eezo in the Reapers shot down before the Crucible fired, in Destroy even more so.

@Breakdown Boy:
This would have to be species-specific, and the quarians will have their own facilities on their liveships, but in general, Earth is the only place left unless you choose Control, so yeah, that seems likely.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 mars 2012 - 02:07 .


#5
lucidfox

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Meh, not interested in anything following the official ending.

#6
Khallos

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Ooo, I like this idea. I'll think on this and add to it when I get off work.

#7
Ieldra

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lucidfox wrote...
Meh, not interested in anything following the official ending.

You can be reasonably sure that any extension of the endings by DLC will not change the big picture significantly.

#8
Kronner

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Sorry, but that's all speculation based on no evidence whatsoever. I don't see the point. You can jus as well argue that in the Destroy ending, people salvage the fallen Reapers and use it to overcome the destruction of the relays. But again, this is all speculation with no solid base.

And Relays are destroyed in all endings. It is clearly shown in the cutscenes.

Modifié par Kronner, 28 mars 2012 - 02:17 .


#9
Ieldra

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What about "put a positive spin on things" didn't you understand, Kronner? I am not trying to establish "what actually happens". I am trying to create one of countless possible timelines that may result out of the events by taking the mess the endings leave us with - and extrapolating from there.

The premise is "Galactic civilization will re-emerge again in a reasonably short time frame". Then I ask how I can make that happen given the situation at the end of ME3. And I find it's not at all hard. You don't need to reinvent anything. Just focus on solutions to the problems the Sol system and other places may face instead of complaining about how utterly ruined everything is.

As for the mass relays, I'm getting really tired of this baseless assertion. See this thread. No giant energy beam out of the Crucible in the blue ending, no final explosion of the relay in the blue ending. I'm not saying they remain functional, but neither are they destroyed. Why the hell would the scenes be different from the other endings if the result was exactly the same? It would've been so much easier to just use the same scenes for all endings, especially since they did this so much in the first place. If Big Ben left standing is all the evidence we get for Earth being Ok vs. devastated, a missing relay explosion cutscene becomes pretty significant, don't you think.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 mars 2012 - 03:42 .


#10
lillitheris

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FTL travel requires eezo. It's not an unsurmountable hurdle, but you'll need to account for it.

I have to retract that, I can't source the eezo degradation now. But, might be good to mention it?

Modifié par lillitheris, 28 mars 2012 - 07:04 .


#11
Clumsy Astronaut

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Competing political factions over scarce resources lead to wars. Krogan with a genophage cure threaten to overpopulate the world. The Krogan Rebellions occur on a smaller scale and without proper labs and top level scientists complete extermination is the only option. Quarians splinter off as those who desire their home world start a long trek back and this dismays the Turians who now have to rely on liveships for food. Narrowly avoided war results in some Quarians and Turians staying in Sol while most Quarians and some Turians strike out for Rannoch together after retrofitting ships with new FTL drives built for endurance (minimal fuel and static buildup) The remaining people slowly spread to the nearest worlds and start researching improved FTL (either faster, or a Conduit esqeu mini relay) for improved travel.

(Assumed Paragon Destroy)

#12
Ieldra

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Expanded the starflight section to account for some objections.

@Clumsy Astronaut:
It would be realistic to include some conflicts, but I'd rather think people are tired of war for some time, and there won't actually be a shortage of most resources - see the section about new worlds that can be found. Remember we want to put a positive spin on things. Nonetheless, the krogan might indeed become a problem if the genophage is cured and likely there will be a quarian faction that just wants to go home. Due to long life spans, many asari and krogan might want to go home as well. Nonetheless, the Sol system will stay a melting pot of species.

#13
Ieldra

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Reposting this from another thread to get it into one place:

Abundance of stars:

Star density around Sol is about 0.003 stars per cubic light year. That means, given a travel speed of 12ly/day, that there are more than half a million stars in reach of a one-month trip, with about 5% of them being G-type stars and another 7% K-type stars. Almost all stars have planets. Plenty of places to refuel, restock raw materials and discharge drives, and it's quite possible there are a few dozen habitable worlds orbiting some of those 70000+ candidate stars.

Rebuilding relays:
Rebuilding a mass relay is a massive undertaking. I would think that it would take a developed world about a century or more, if it's possible at all. Knowledge is not a problem, resources are. Remember, the energy equivalent of a star is bound up in a relay. You could posit it needs a civilization of type II on the Kardashev scale to do that. None of the civilizations in the ME universe - even pre-apocalypse ones - are of that type with the possible exception of the geth. I would posit that in the Destroy endings, rebuilding relays is not viable for the foreseeable future, in Control, the relays are only damaged so they may be repaired, and in Synthesis it might be possible that the post-Synthesis civilization acquires the capability to build on that scale rather fast. The question is will they need it or will they find another way. Synthesis is something of a wild card.

#14
Kanub

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Nice work Ieldra, I've been going through the exact same positive thought process.

A couple of bits: You mention that one Earth the densely populated areas have been destroyed, which it true. It might be worth adding that large farm areas, rice fields, woodland - basically, the areas that provide food - would likely have been mostly untouched. They're scarcely populated, the Reapers had no reason to set foot there until they'd finished with the populated areas.

Secondly, I was looking at 'Super-earths' and 'Goldilocks planets' on wiki yesterday - the first possible ones start cropping up at merely 4LY from our Sun, and there's a huge amount within just a couple of days travel. I think Humanity was a bit lazy about exploration of the local stars once they found the Relay!

#15
Ieldra

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Thank you, Kanub. I incorporated the thing about rural areas staying intact into the OP.

About habitable planets, I think you got the distances wrong. The nearest star is Proxima Centauri and it's 4.5ly from Sol. But generally, yes, there should be a considerable number of compatible planets within a reasonable distance (for the ME universe anyway) from Sol. Humanity has just become as lazy as others after finding the relays. I wonder if that is realistic though. There were always exceptional humans whose spirit of exploration wouldn't be easily quenched. I'd posit these star systems are known and have been explored, but so far nobody bothered with them for expansion since they weren't in comfortable range of a relay.

#16
Silvren555

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Just call Sid Meier (however you spell it) and get ME Civilisations

#17
Clumsy Astronaut

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I really think that in the end a Krogan genophage cure was not the way to go, considering the state of the galaxy habitable worlds would be almost priceless and the Krogan have a historical penchant for overpopulation and destruction of them. (and this is coming from an 85% Paragon player whose Renegade Shep wasn't ever racist)

But anyways, I think such conflicts will be inevitable, as the Turians now have to rely solely on the Quarians for food, and don't want to take a 20 year trip to Rannoch.

In the long term I think that some decent FTL that allows a semblance of the civilization in the games would be at least 100-200 years off while existing technologies are applied and new ones are developed.

#18
Ieldra

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Well, in my main Shepard's game I sabotaged the cure, so the krogan won't be much of a factor in the long run, but I can't base my scenario on that alone. I wonder how many players sabotaged the cure....

As for the time frame, there can't be one with regard to discovering new technologies. People might find a new way of FTL travel tomorrow, in 100 years or never. Writing a timeline, you'll eventually have to posit "They've done it now" at some arbitrary point in time. That - and to keep the identity of the ME universe - is why I'm trying to focus on existing technology and repairing the relays in Control, and that's why the Synthesis scenario is so hard to imagine. How to create a new technology which doesn't change the universe so much that it isn't "Mass Effect" anymore?

Hmm...just getting an idea....

#19
Clumsy Astronaut

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My problem with control is that we have no idea how much Shepard can control the reapers. Can he fly them into the nearest black hole or could he end up like the Illusive Man with a false feeling of control. Personally I like Synthesis the best but it leaves extrapolation as very difficult due to the ambiguity. When it comes down to it I think destroy is the easiest ending to proceed from.

#20
Ieldra

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Hmm....for Control I think we can assume that ascended-Shepard has total control over the Reapers, and that they'll be kept around somewhere in a remote place. Anyway, they should not factor into any of the scenarios except in that they might have left a few helpful goodies behind or are available for salvaging.

The Synthesis - I think I'm going with a theme. "Decentralized eezo-based technology" and miniaturization. Still not sure how a civilization based on that would look. Need more thinking.

#21
Clumsy Astronaut

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I am curious as to the social aspect of synthesis. Would there be people who react adversely to these new upgrades or would they be accepted as the new norm? I am certain at least some people would want their old forms back.( I am thinking something along the lines of a new religios group almost who seek to bring about a return to organic life at any cost.) The reaction of the Geth would also be interesting.

#22
Flextt

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I like the thinking, though this piece is wrong on several levels:

(3) Turians and quarians and dextro-food.
Food problems? Quarian liveships will be able to provide food as they always did. I'd think they could be convinced to share with the turians. Apart from that, Dextro-aminoacids shouldn't be that hard to produce, even in industrial quantities. There will be some shortages - there always are after a war - but the problem will be surmountable.


Without a doubt there will be a food problem and without a doubt it will be managable to some extent. I doubt however, that it will sustain the amount of people present in Sol as they are. I cannot base that on any number or fact, but in my thought experiment it seems unlikely. Just as I read your thread, I suggest you read mine, it will be worth your while imho. http://social.biowar.../index/10765131

"Sustenance
The Quarians, as a nomadic people (further explanation here),
will be unable to provide sustenance for a multitude of their own
population and that is considering, they didn't leave the life ships at
Rannoch. Earth is scorched and it is unlikely for military ships to have
meaningful reserves, that will support everyone long enough. The defeat
of the Reapers, as it is, is a pyrrhic victory at best. It is likely
for Earth to hold substantial reserves that can be scavanged, but if
that would support millions is questionable and pure conjecture. [...] Humans and asari are
levo-protein based. Quarians and turians dextro-protein. The resulting
implications for immediate agricultural efforts are unknown."

I won't go into the Fuel issue here, because I think you resolved it good enough.

Edit: Your and my point about the Quarians and their possible relief efforts are solely based on the premise, that they were not wiped out by the Geth. This is NOT canon! We should keep that in mind.

Modifié par Flextt, 30 mars 2012 - 10:31 .


#23
Ieldra

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Clumsy Astronaut wrote...
I am curious as to the social aspect of synthesis. Would there be people who react adversely to these new upgrades or would they be accepted as the new norm? I am certain at least some people would want their old forms back.( I am thinking something along the lines of a new religios group almost who seek to bring about a return to organic life at any cost.) The reaction of the Geth would also be interesting.

Based on my Synthesis scenario, people would acquire a synthetic symbiont that without any input from the individual, does nothing but improve the immune system and slow aging. People are free to do nothing more with it.

Of course some would go further than that, being opposed to it as a matter of principle. I guess there would be some religious splinter-groups attempting to reverse the change for themselves. But I don't think the majority would feel obligated to consider the feelings of people who would reject such benefits on grounds of some arbitrary notion of purity. 

#24
daemiendrake

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For Control: Odd note in my game i saved the Geth and Quarians. So with a large quantity of reaper enhanced geth one has pilots for truly long distance travel. With cryogenic stasis(certainly possible) and geth pilots long travel times mean less. Also the Geth provide a rather large boon to any and all future scientific research.

#25
Ieldra

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Flextt wrote...
I like the thinking, though this piece is wrong on several levels:

(3) Turians and quarians and dextro-food.
Food problems? Quarian liveships will be able to provide food as they always did. I'd think they could be convinced to share with the turians. Apart from that, Dextro-aminoacids shouldn't be that hard to produce, even in industrial quantities. There will be some shortages - there always are after a war - but the problem will be surmountable.


Without a doubt there will be a food problem and without a doubt it will be managable to some extent. I doubt however, that it will sustain the amount of people present in Sol as they are. I cannot base that on any number or fact, but in my thought experiment it seems unlikely. Just as I read your thread, I suggest you read mine, it will be worth your while imho. http://social.biowar.../index/10765131

"Sustenance
The Quarians, as a nomadic people (further explanation here), will be unable to provide sustenance for a multitude of their own population and that is considering, they didn't leave the life ships at  Rannoch. Earth is scorched and it is unlikely for military ships to have meaningful reserves, that will support everyone long enough. The defeat of the Reapers, as it is, is a pyrrhic victory at best. It is likely for Earth to hold substantial reserves that can be scavanged, but if that would support millions is questionable and pure conjecture. [...] Humans and asari are levo-protein based. Quarians and turians dextro-protein. The resulting implications for immediate agricultural efforts are unknown."

I don't agree with your estimation. First, the article you linked is misleading because in space, there are no one-time food resources to exploit for space nomads. Everything must be produced on-board of ships. I think it is a safe assumption that the liveships can produce enough food for the Migrant Fleet. IIRC the liveships are part of the allied fleet in the Sol system as shown in the battle cutscenes. If, against my memory, they aren't shown, I will simply claim that they are present - remember, we want to put a positive spin on things. There will be food problems for the turians, no doubt, but as I said, dextro-aminoacids shouldn't be that hard to produce, even in industrial quantities.  

Also in the "Earth is OK" endings, many of Earth's cities lie in ruins but the rural areas will remain mostly untouched because the Reapers attacked the cities first (Anderson said that). Also Earth will have lost about half of its population. Food production will not be a big problem, though food distribution may be.

Edit: Your and my point about the Quarians and their possible relief efforts are solely based on the premise, that they were not wiped out by the Geth. This is NOT canon! We should keep that in mind.

Yes, but I'm not trying to create a canon scenario. I'm trying to outline a best-case scenario. It would have to be adapted for timelines where the quarians are gone. No doubt that would be quite a bit more unpleasant.