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[soulprovider]

Ieldra2 wrote...

What this is about:
With the end of ME3, Bioware plunged the galaxy into a dark age where galactic civilization is fragmented. I don't want it. I'm sure there are quite a few others who don't want it. We can't make it go away, but we can try to keep it short. This is an attempt to provide a plausible framework for the rebuilding of galactic civilization in a reasonable timeframe for each of the three "Earth is OK" endings. Everyone is invited to participate.

Proposed ground rules:
(1) Put a positive spin on things.
We want to get out of the dark age, not wallow in it. Most intelligent organic life in the galaxy destroyed because of the relay explosions? Doesn't happen, the Crucible didn't work that way. Dextro-protein-based species starving? Find a way around it (see below for an example).
(2) All endings are good endings (as far as any one can be considered good).
Don't try to force a negative interpretation of endings you don't like. Instead put a positive spin on endings you do like.
(3) Keep characters out of things.
This is worldbuilding not fanfic. Who does what isn't important, only that it's done, and players' endgame scenarios are too different in that regard anyway.
(4) No Reaper actions.
The Reapers are either dead or gone. In Control and Synthesis, they may have left a few goodies behind, but I don't think it's in the spirit of the story that just ended to posit something like "The Reapers help rebuilding the mass relays".

Now into the details....

Solutions to problems common to all of the three "good" endings:

(1) The planet in the stargazer epilogue
....is a lost colony. The Normandy can't be the only ship whose crew observed what happened and got caught in-transit. Anyway, whether you think it's the same planet the Normandy stranded on or not, it's just one planet. It says nothing about how the rest of the galaxy recovered from the war. Otherwise, the fate of the Normandy is not a topic we're dealing with here.  

(2) The state of Earth
Most of Earth's big cities will be depopulated. Many will lie in ruins. However, there's no reason to assume they'll all lie in ruins, because it's the fighting that does the damage. As Anderson said, the resistance abandoned the cities early since the Reaper presence there was too strong. Which means that quite a bit of Earth's urban infrastructure will be largely intact or easily repaired. The Reapers weren't interested in destroying infrastructure, they were after people. Also the rural areas, which produce most of the food, will likely remain mostly intact.
Earth's population will have dropped by a few billion people, and while that's a sad thing, it also means there is enough space for the survivors and the people of the allied fleet. See below for more about that

(3) Turians and quarians and dextro-food.
Food problems? Quarian liveships will be able to provide food as they always did. I'd think they could be convinced to share with the turians. Apart from that, Dextro-aminoacids shouldn't be that hard to produce, even in industrial quantities. There will be some shortages - there always are after a war - but the problem will be surmountable.

(4) Communication
There will be no instant cutoff of galaxy-wide communication. Why? QE devices. Many ships will have them and some will exist on Earth, too. While refueling them will be impossible for the foreseeable future, many of the non-humans and colonials will be able to call home, tell the story of what happened in the Sol System and be told what happened in other places. Vidcomm will be restricted since that uses too much bandwidth (bandwidth is one-time for QE devices), telegram-style messages will remain possible for some time, depending on how strictly the restrictions are enforced.
The people in the Sol System will probably have the most complete picture of what happened around the galaxy it is possible to have under these circumstances.

(5) Star travel, short-term perspective
Non-relay FTL still works (the line about Destroying destroying "most of the technology you rely on" is restricted to low-EMS endings. We are not talking about those here). A "typical" travelling speed is 12ly/day (source: ME:Revelation). Logistics problems are addressed as follows:
(1) Eezo makes up the drive cores and is not consumed as "fuel". Source: Codex. There is mention of ships using the same core for two decades and not mention at all of attrition.
(2) Fuel: starship thrusters use antiproton drives (combat only) and fusion torches. Antiproton drives will most likely be not viable for long-range expeditions because antimatter production needs gigantic facilities. Fusion torches need only helium-3, though, which can be found at any gas giant and collected using a refinery ship. 
(3) Drive core discharge: can be done at any gas giant or any other celestial body with a magnetic field.
(4) Food: a long-range expedition fleet would need to be accompanied by a liveship-analogue. The quarians can build them, so others can, too.
The Sol system is in an area with low stellar density, which is about 0.003 stars per cubic light year. That *still* means there are more than 2500 star systems within a range of a 5-day voyage. Since most stars have planets and most planets are gas giants, that means there are plenty of opportunities for drive discharge, refueling and restocking raw materials for repair.
That way, a long range expedition fleet can sustain itself from resources found along the way and travel the galaxy. Though it would take at least 23 years to cross the galaxy.
(I would also remind everyone that because of Newton's first law, the fuel needed by a ship is independent from the distance travelled. Acceleration and deceleration are the limiting factors. The implementation in the games is just game mechanics)

(6) Resettling our allies. Perspectives for going home.
The only ally with an immediate prospect of going home are the quarians (I wonder if the writers ever thought of how cruel it is to deprive them of  a homeworld they just regained for another 30 years). Mid-term, there may be some asari or krogan who would want to put together a long-range expedition fleet (see above) and go home). Nonetheless, I'm going to assume that most of the allies will be stuck in the local area or decide to stay instead of taking a 30-year trek. So what are we to do with them? You know, the idea of settling, say, the krogan, on Earth is..er....unsettling. Read on...

(7) New worlds? They exist. They can be reached.
Wait.....Isn't it a fact that there aren't any habitable worlds but Earth in the local cluster? Not so fast. The fact is that there aren't any such worlds in a short distance from where the Sol relay was. We are never given travel times, but the sequence of events throughout the games suggest that it can't take more than a few days to travel from a relay to the most remote world in a "cluster" (which isn't really a star cluster, just an area named for convenience).
Now suppose we extend the time we're willing to travel from...hmm....five days to 30 days. Never thought of that? That's how the relays made galactic civilization decadent. 30 days of typical FTL means 360 light-years.....

Star density around Sol is about 0.003 stars per cubic light year. This is LOW, most regions of the galaxy are more densely populated. That means, given a travel speed of 12ly/day, that there are more than half a million stars in reach of a one-month trip, with about 5% of them being G-type stars and another 7% K-type stars. Almost all stars have planets. Plenty of places to refuel, restock raw materials and discharge drives, and it's quite possible there are a few dozen habitable worlds orbiting some of those 70000+ candidate stars.

(8) Rebuilding relays:
Rebuilding a mass relay is a massive undertaking. I would think that it would take a developed world about a century or more, if it's possible at all. Knowledge is not a problem, resources are. Remember, the energy equivalent of a star is bound up in a relay. You could posit it needs a civilization of type II on the Kardashev scale to build a relay. None of the civilizations in the ME universe - even pre-apocalypse ones - are of that type with the possible exception of the geth. I would posit that in the Destroy endings, rebuilding relays is not viable for the foreseeable future, in Control, the relays are only damaged so they may be repaired, and in Synthesis it might be possible that the post-Synthesis civilization acquires the capability to build on that scale rather fast. The question is will they need it or will they find another way. Synthesis is something of a wild card.



Mid-term effects of the final choice on star travel and rebuilding galactic civilization:

Here I'm going into full speculation mode:

Destroy:
I don't think it is in the spirit of the Destroy ending to posit that they'll just rebuild the relays at some point. Instead, I'd propose that the existing technology for FTL travel will be refined to increase its speed by increments, gradually increasing the size of a possible cohesive civilization throughout the centuries. The same will happen with most surviving developed worlds of the pre-Disaster civilization, like Sur'kesh. Contact between the different spheres will exist, since there will always be people who'd risk decade-long travels if they can be reasonably certain there's a habitable place at the other end. Eventually, the different spheres will reconnect to have common "borders". What happens then is anyone's guess. 

Control:
I think the best possible setup for Control scenarios is to assume that the relays are damaged and nonfunctional for the foreseeable future but not destroyed (several threads have hinted at this as a possible interpretation of the differences in the ending cutscenes). After a functional infrastructure has been restored, the surviving developed worlds will this focus their efforts on repairing the relays. Eventually, the civilization that emerges from this scenario will look very similar to the one destroyed by the Crucible. It is also possible that something valuable in terms of technology or knowledge will be salvaged from the Reaper debris flying around in this scenario.

Synthesis:
This is something of a wild card. I'd say it would be in the spirit of this ending to have things go into new and totally unexpected, even exotic directions. In my thread on the Synthesis ending, I have proposed some effects on individuals, but the big picture has largely been ignored. How would a galactic civilization emerge from the Synthesis which is still recognizably "Mass Effect" but radically different from those emerging from the other two scenarios? I'm still working on that. Ideas welcome. The legacy of the Old Machines (who aren't Reapers anymore in this scenario) might come into play in unexpected ways. Whatever they left behind may still be "live", but not hostile any more.

All right, I think this is a good jumpoff point. Now it's everyone else's turn.

Shhh don't give bioware ideas they already screwed the endings up now you want to give them something to get them out of the massive hole they dug for themselves, really!?

If we're going to be rebuilding their game universe for them we might as well write our own science fiction and generate fan devotion that way.

[Flidget]

Was it ever established how quickly terraforming can be done?

It's canonical that humanity never bothered to terraform Mars fully because they discovered the Charon Relay early enough that it just became more convenient to settle nearby garden planets instead. I assume the same goes for Europa and any other candidates in the Sol system.

For a species like the Vorcha, not very technologically savvy but able to survive in extremely hostile circumstances, even a partially terraformed world would be survivable and if you had Aria's mercenaries as part of your fleet you've probably got quite a lot of Vorcha you've got to do something with.

Modifié par Flidget, 04 avril 2012 - 06:27 .

[Ieldra]

soulprovider wrote...
Shhh don't give bioware ideas they already screwed the endings up now you want to give them something to get them out of the massive hole they dug for themselves, really!?

Why not? Since the ending won't be completely rewritten anyway, I'd be delighted if they took up some of my ideas to counter the nihilism.

In fact, the bigger danger is that they don't want it, that they're so fixated on their thrice-damned dark age that they'll use that announced clarification to make my scenario impossible. Hard to build something in defiance of the Word of God. I take it as a test of their goodwill. They know we take issue with the universe being destroyed. If they now extend the dark age in time in an undeniable way, entering my brain with a flamethrower again to extinguish the renewed life growing in the blasted wasteland the endings left behind, I think I'll be done with them. 

On the other hand, if the clarification results in the mass relays not being destroyed in  Control, I'll be delighted as well and will gladly adapt my scenario.

If we're going to be rebuilding their game universe for them we might as well write our own science fiction and generate fan devotion that way.

The Retake Mass Effect movement asserts that fans should have influence on the ME universe. Also I'm sure Bioware has incorporated many things from the forums into their games over time, using ideas the fans so eagerly provide, and all that free of charge. Still, Bioware is who ensures that the ME universe has weight in cultural memory, and that's important for long-term appeal. 

[Clumsy Astronaut]

@ Ieldra2
We both seem to believe that synthesis is a good ending, why do you think the vast majority discard it in favor of control?

[hippanda]

Ieldra2 wrote...

(5) Star travel, short-term perspective
Non-relay FTL still works (the line about Destroying destroying "most of the technology you rely on" is restricted to low-EMS endings. We are not talking about those here). A "typical" travelling speed is 12ly/day (source: ME:Revelation). Logistics problems are addressed as follows:
(1) Eezo makes up the drive cores and is not consumed as "fuel". Source: Codex. There is mention of ships using the same core for two decades and not mention at all of attrition.
...
...
...
(I would also remind everyone that because of Newton's first law, the fuel needed by a ship is independent from the distance travelled. Acceleration and deceleration are the limiting factors. The implementation in the games is just game mechanics)

These points are deceptive. Yes, the eezo core is not consumed as fuel, but you still need to run an electric current through the core that's strong enough to offset the mass of the starship in question. This current doesn't come from nowhere - for most ships, it's generated by the same helium-3 fusion plants that power the thrusters. In addition to that, you're also burning fuel in order to keep all of the ship's basic utilities operational (you know, pesky things like life support).

So, yes, you are required to constantly consume fuel during FTL travel above and beyond the requirements for accelerating and decelerating the ship. That doesn't automatically mean that fuel would be an insurmountable obstacle in plotting the journeys we're talking about, but it's definitely more of an issue than your handwaving suggests.

[Zix13]

The first step to rebuilding the galaxy is waiting for enough people to starve to death so that the population is sustainable. At this point, everyone can fight over resources for survival. Eventually, one race or faction will come out on top and rule their system. To preserve their rule, they will not attempt to contact other systems. Galaxy lives segmented under warlords. That's what would happen.

[Kernwaffen]

I think that terraforming technology makes a huge leap in any post-relay destruction scenario. Even though, as you rightly point out, there are potentially hundreds of habitable worlds within a reasonable distance of Sol, it makes logistical sense to colonize densely in a universe where instantaneous travel over large distances is no longer possible. You certainly want to be able to colonize near rich concentrations of resources.

As far as the near term aftermath is concerned, I think you would see the Krogan leave before anyone else. They are at least as long-lived as the Asari, and it is unlikely that they brought many of their females along for the ride. Combine this with their agressive nature, and I expect that the other races would be anxious to help them along.

I would expect that there would probably be some competition for worlds and resources among the races. Without the Reaper threat (and probably without Commander Shepard) to hold them together, some splintering seems inevitable. Over the longer term, I think it would be difficult to avoid factionalization within races. Longer transit times means colonies must be more independent, and that's historically a major source of tension.

Some other random thoughts: Helium 3 is only one potential fuel for fusion. Deuterium and boron are others, and potentially more abundant/easier to procure than helium 3 given the widespread destruction of infrastructure. Starship power plants might be modified to take advantage of these.

I also don't think the Krogan necessarily have to kill themselves. It's possible that Wrex and Eve have real influence and convince them to return to their more constructive ways. Maybe somebody discovers Krogan birth control...

[pistolols]

Ieldra2 wrote...

In Control, the Citadel still exists and is mostly intact. That could be a huge boon for the allied fleet, since there will be facilities there for many species, space enough to live for the complete personnel of the fleet and tech resources of all kinds.

Wait a minute, so you are willing to consider the implications of the citadel still being intact, but want to completely discount the reapers?  Sorry, but i simply can't agree with the premise of "the reapers are just gone".  It's bad enough people are already saying out of pure ignorance that " derp all 3 endings are the same just different color" without us going and removing more differences.  No, the reapers are a major element to consider.  There is no reason they cannot be utilized for a variety of extremely helpful tasks.

[Sparrowhawke]

Have you guys seen this yet? Fantastic work.

shannon.users.sonic.net/masseffect/

Modifié par Sparrowhawke, 05 avril 2012 - 05:14 .

[Ieldra]

pistolols wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
In Control, the Citadel still exists and is mostly intact. That could be a huge boon for the allied fleet, since there will be facilities there for many species, space enough to live for the complete personnel of the fleet and tech resources of all kinds.

Wait a minute, so you are willing to consider the implications of the citadel still being intact, but want to completely discount the reapers?  Sorry, but i simply can't agree with the premise of "the reapers are just gone".  It's bad enough people are already saying out of pure ignorance that " derp all 3 endings are the same just different color" without us going and removing more differences.  No, the reapers are a major element to consider.  There is no reason they cannot be utilized for a variety of extremely helpful tasks.

The problem is this: Ascended-Shepard now looks at the galaxy from a, for lack of a better term, godlike perspective. He will now have to consider things like "Is it better, in the long term perspective of a million years, to get the Reapers to help with the rebuilding effort, or is it better to leave the galaxy alone and let civilizations rebuild and develop on their own?" Do we want to answer that question? Also, interference by the Reapers would be like divine intervention, from a worldbuilding perspective it's usually best to limit that as best as you can. Otherwise the universe will become the Reapers' to shape and nothing is left for the species we just saved to shape. That would ultimately defeat the purpose.

So, yes, I'd limit the Reapers' involvement. Leave a little knowledge here, maybe an artifact here. Put ideas into peoples' heads. But almost never act directly. IMO the Reapers must act under some sort of Prime Directive, whether it's born of their own will in Synthesis or imposed by Shepard in Control, or we won't have a universe we'll like in the end. Actions by the Reapers must remain a very rare exception.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 avril 2012 - 07:55 .

[M12311]

Ieldra2 wrote...
This is an attempt to provide a plausible framework for the rebuilding of galactic civilization in a reasonable timeframe for each of the three "Earth is OK" endings.

It is easier and more rewarding to just write a new ending and pretend its real.

[Ieldra]

Flidget wrote...
Was it ever established how quickly terraforming can be done?

It's canonical that humanity never bothered to terraform Mars fully because they discovered the Charon Relay early enough that it just became more convenient to settle nearby garden planets instead. I assume the same goes for Europa and any other candidates in the Sol system.

For a species like the Vorcha, not very technologically savvy but able to survive in extremely hostile circumstances, even a partially terraformed world would be survivable and if you had Aria's mercenaries as part of your fleet you've probably got quite a lot of Vorcha you've got to do something with.

It's not established, but if FTL transport is easy - which it is in the ME universe - the limitation on terraforming speed isn't a resource problem but a problem of life processes needing a certain time to establish themselves, atmospheric equilibrium needing time to consolidate etc.. Terraforming may not be exactly hard, but it is by its very nature time-consuming. Just imagine the process of heating Mars' atmosphere as a starting step to increase atmospheric density and as a prerequisite for adding water-based life: you'd start by melting the frozen CO2 at the polar caps. Suppose you can do that fast. You then have to do nothing but wait until the atmosphere has warmed enough for the next step: importing microbial life. You can expect that to take a few decades.

[Ieldra]

@hippanda:
I take your point.

But point (1) about eezo was not to imply that no fuel would be necessary for star travel, but to counter arguments that eezo is fuel and soon there wouldn't be any anymore.

As you say, fuel will be helium-3, which is freely available in huge quantities in about every second star system. But yes, there will be continuous fuel consumption. I'll change the paragraph in brackets to account for your objection.

[Ieldra]

Clumsy Astronaut wrote...

@ Ieldra2
We both seem to believe that synthesis is a good ending, why do you think the vast majority discard it in favor of control?

I'll answer this in my Synthesis thread.

[Clumsy Astronaut]

How much are they clarifying in the director's cut or whatever? It seems like it could solve my major problems with the ending, but if they screw up the galaxy even more...

[Ieldra]

Note how this answer from an interview with Patrick Weekes echoes what I wrote for my Destroy scenario

Q: Will long-distance superluminal travel still be possible post-Ending?

A: Galactic civilization will rebuild. The mass relays were not necessary for interstellar flight. Remember, what does it say in the Codex about the speed of ships? That's right, 12 lightyears per (day? hour? minute?). And that's only the cruising speed, not the maximum speed.

People have never needed to research basic FTL improvements before because they have mass relays. With the relays gone, new technology will increase that speed. Additionally, the element zero cores of the dead/controlled Reapers can be used to improve FTL drives. Starflight will continue using conventional FTL

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 avril 2012 - 08:55 .

[Ieldra]

Someone just pointed me at the confirmation that lost colonies exist in the ME universe, and by extension habitable worlds near settled systems that were never found because they were never explored.

Cerberus Daily News, 2011-01-13:

Surprising details have emerged about recently-discovered human colonists in the Alpha Centauri system who captured an asari scientist. Alliance ships performed a reconnaissance overflight of the planet in question and gathered details about a settlement there. After cross-referencing with Alliance databases, a clearer picture has emerged. An Alliance source explained: “These people are literally a lost colony in every sense of the word. We’re 95% certain they originated from the Manswell Expedition of 2070.” A background check reveals Victor Manswell was a billionaire who funded his own private spaceflight in the year 2075 after growing frustrated with the pace of official exploration. Pre-dating the use of mass effect relays, some 300 people joined the expedition and were placed in cryogenic freeze for the journey. After a successful launch the colonists were never heard from again… until today, if Alliance suspicions prove true.

[CapnManx]

I suspect that technology allowing core discharge while on the move is not impossible; even without studying Reaper corpses.

www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/about/fs06grc_prt.htm

If you skip down to the bottom of that article you'll find the description of the Plasma Contactor Unit, which clears static build up from the ISS.  The description seems pretty similar to Ion thrusters.

It makes a degree of sense to me.  Ion thrusters in the Mass Effect universe are mainly used on automated ore barges, because they are highly efficient, but very slow; however, an ore barge with its bunkers topped off would, presumably, represent a significant amount of mass.  That means more strain on the eezo core, and less time between core discharges. 

So they have less time to make the journey, but are given the slowest engines? 

This is pure speculation on my part; still...

It makes more sense if we assume the ion thrusters are preventing, or at least slowing, the build up of static (which they might given how the PCU works).  It doesn't even necessarily conflict with the codex; we just need to be fussy about our interpretation of 'efficient'.

Even if normal ion engines don't work that way in ME, there's nothing to say they couldn't be adapted to the task.   Why wouldn't they have done it before?  Cost.  No reason to increase expense, mass, and energy consumption when mass relays tend to drop ships in planetary systems where discharge can be done without such a system; especially on ships that use something else for primary propulsion (that would mean having two separate propulsion systems, with two separate fuel sources, and all just so you can avoid making extra pit stops).

As I say, this is just me speculating; it's what I use in my own headcanon.

On that note... another thing to keep in mind is that the core systems seem to be the ones that got hit hardest; that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of places that emerged from the war in better shape.  Help may be on the way, even if the situation in Sol is a little grim; and interstellar civilization may be reestablishing itself independently of anything going on around Earth (another thing from my headcanon ).  That possibility would allow all those fleets to just focus on the immediate problem of getting home.

[Ieldra]

CapnManx, drive core discharge while on the move was always possible. All you need is a planet with a magnetic field. Also, by the Codex, standard drives are fusion torches, complemented by antiproton ion drives for combat ships. The latter won't be viable for long-range expeditions though.

As for the state of the galaxy, Earth has been hit hard but there should be many places left intact. The Reapers were after people, not resources, and apart from collateral damage from the fighting in the major cities, only war assets would have been destroyed. Places like Sur'kesh probably escaped with minor damage, however the long travelling times mean that they won't be able to help less fortunate worlds.

Reestablishment of a cohesive civilization will take a century or two, maybe more depending on your premises, and I think if you get an "Earth is OK" high EMS ending, the presence of the allied fleets and lots of Reaper debris will result in a faster recovery rather than a slow one. Earth won't be left behind. The presence of many species on Earth makes it possible that Earth will become a hub in the new civilization.

One more thing: analyzing Reaper debris might result in increased capabilities of starships in several ways. The Codex says:

The Reapers' thrusters and FTL drives appear to propel them at more than twice the speed of Citadel ships. Estimates of their location in dark space suggest they can travel nearly 30 light-years in a 24-hour period.

Reaper power sources seem to violate known physical laws. Reapers usually destroy fuel infrastructure rather than attempting to capture it intact, indicating that Reapers do not require organic species' energy supplies.

I would posit that Reapers use something like zero-point energy, pulling their power out of the structure of space. That's probably too unbalanced to include in any future scenario, but the increased speed should not be a problem. 30 ly/day instead of 12 means you can cross the galaxy in less than 10 years. That would be enough for a loosely cohesive civilization. SF universes like that exist.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 avril 2012 - 09:13 .

[CapnManx]

Just going to take this point by point.

Discharge in a magnetic field can take hours or days; that's a significant increase in travel time over long distances.

Anti-proton engines and ion thrusters are very different things (and you're right, anti-proton would be of no use to anyone as the infrastructure that would support them would have been destroyed).

You are thinking of the homeworlds; I was thinking colony worlds which may have been left more or less untouched (there are loads of them that never appeared in the games), and which may be a lot closer to Earth.

Cohesive civilisation certainly would take centuries to re-establish on a galactic level; but that hardly seems necessary. It only takes people willing to reach out to their neighbours to get the ball rolling. I imagine that your typical colony is not completely self sufficient, relying on interstellar trade to meet many of its needs; so they've got plenty of incentive to do that (positive spin, yes?).

Just my opinion, but I'd be reluctant to accept Reaper tech as a solution to anyone's problems. The teams that gathered the parts of Sovereign's weapon system, also gathered up it's core; yet, while they made the Thannix, they didn't manage to develop better FTL. Neither did Cerberus or the Batarians (sure, they were indoctrinated, but still...). The Reapers may have made their drive technology deliberately difficult to figure out, since they didn't want anybody having good FTL. Better to try and find solutions that don't rely on them.

[Ieldra]

CapnManx wrote...
Discharge in a magnetic field can take hours or days; that's a significant increase in travel time over long distances.

Where did you get that from? I don't think the time it takes is mentioned anywhere.

You are thinking of the homeworlds; I was thinking colony worlds which may have been left more or less untouched (there are loads of them that never appeared in the games), and which may be a lot closer to Earth.

I agree that some of the more developed colonies might have escaped the Reapers' attention. But "close to Earth" isn't what it has been. Even the nearest colony - I think that would be Eden Prime - is about a year away from Sol after the relays were destroyed or rendered non-functional. Also for the human colonies at least, 99% of the human population still lived on Earth at the time of the Reaper invasion. I've made that point elsewhere to illustrate how the destruction of Earth would destroy humanity as a galactic power. I would posit an equal distribution in industrial resources. The nearest non-human worlds are batarian, and they've been hit even harder than humanity.
In short, I think that Earth must stand on its own for some time - which shouldn't be that much of a problem. I rather see Earth as the future hub of a new galactic civilization, with all the species having a need to establish a permanent presence on or near Earth after their fleets are cut off from home.
 

Cohesive civilisation certainly would take centuries to re-establish on a galactic level; but that hardly seems necessary. It only takes people willing to reach out to their neighbours to get the ball rolling. I imagine that your typical colony is not completely self sufficient, relying on interstellar trade to meet many of its needs; so they've got plenty of incentive to do that (positive spin, yes?).

Yep. Localized cohesion is the scenario I've suggested for the Destroy ending. Though I don't think there would be much trade with large-volume goods. Too expense to ship those between worlds.

Just my opinion, but I'd be reluctant to accept Reaper tech as a solution to anyone's problems. The teams that gathered the parts of Sovereign's weapon system, also gathered up it's core; yet, while they made the Thannix, they didn't manage to develop better FTL. Neither did Cerberus or the Batarians (sure, they were indoctrinated, but still...). The Reapers may have made their drive technology deliberately difficult to figure out, since they didn't want anybody having good FTL. Better to try and find solutions that don't rely on them.

I don't have a problem with analyzing Reaper stuff, figuring out how they did it and using the knowledge to improve FTL capabilities - remember, the Reapers can travel at 30ly/day. It's very plausible, too. What I would be reluctant to posit are large-scale Reaper actions in Control or Synthesis.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 avril 2012 - 08:36 .

[Grasich]

Rebuilding the Relays may be possible in Destroy and Synthesis. After all, they explode but they don't dissolve or anything. The shards can be collected and analyzed. It would take some time, but within a decade or two they could very well have prototype Relays functioning.

/optimism mode

[fle6isnow]

Very interesting thread, OP! I can't believe I haven't read through this before, as this is the exact thing I've been doing ever since I saw the endings for the first time.

I don't know if this was mentioned on the thread already, but in ME2 Matriarch Aethyta implies that the asari have the capability--or at the very least, the foundations--to make their own mass relays. At least that's how I interpreted that conversation. I like to think they just didn't have the motivation to do so because the asari are rather set in their ways, and besides, the original relay network was enough for their purposes. With the relay network destroyed though, they wouldn't be laughing at Aethyta now, would they? If they could transmit that information somehow, that would speed up the development of the relays to bring back galactic civilization.

[somewherenoplace]

this thread talks about ME4 as well.

Below is the first post and my response. hope this is interesting.

Aryck1095 V2 wrote...

So... Shepard's story is, more or less, concluded; of course there's still the hope that Bioware will actually change the ending (and get rid of Star Brat) and the DLC we're likely to see in the furture, but after that...?

As this is the end of Shepard's story, the question is; what next? Who's the new protagonist we'll be playing as in the next game? What surname should they use this time? What's the plot going to be this time around, now that the Reapers are gone?

Personally, I'm hoping for something different than "stopping-an-all-powerful-alien-force-from-destroying-all-life-in-the-galaxy". That kind of thing has been done to death in video games in recent years; time for something new.

This is a long read, but just hear me out.

Part 1: A new plot...

I was thinking about the Terminous Systems; in the codex, it says that there are more alien races out there, independent worlds that constantly fight among themselves, but we never saw any of this in Mass Effect 2, which was centered in the Terminous Systems. It also says that the Council has long feared that the disparate worlds of the Terminous could unite and start a galactic war to overthrow the Citadel Council.

In the aftermath of Mass Effect 3, I'd say they have the opportunity to do just that, don't you think?

Think about it; with the destruction of the Mass Relays, and the losses they suffered in the Reaper War, the Citadel Council would be left on the brink of collapse. The Reapers seemed more focused on Citadel space than the Terminous, so if those various races were to unite, they could sieze the opportunity to usher in a new galactic order, if they wanted to. Which brings us to the next aspect of the New Mass Effect:

Part 2: A new Shepard...

So... we're likely going to be personalizing a new protagonist with a new name in the next Mass Effect, as Bioware said this was Shepard's final chapter, whether he lives or dies. So... who's going to be the new guy/gal?

This means new Pre-Service Histories, new Psycological Profiles (hopefully with more significance this time around; something like Dragon Age:Origins) and a new surname. It also means a new role in the main story, maybe a new ship as well (though I wouldn't say no to a salvaged Normandy SR-2). So what will our new role be? Will we be a soldier, perhaps even a Spectre; or maybe a rogue, a mercenary playing by your own rules this time.

Maybe a little of both; keeping in mind what I said above about a potential plot, what if Bioware pulled a Skyrim on us. For those who have played the game, you know the conflict between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion? The White-Gold Concordat? The dispanding of the Blades? What if the ME universe took a similar path, but more focused on the politics of said situation.

Picture this; in the aftermath of the Reaper War, the council would be willing to do anything to prevent another war, like brokering a peace agreement with the above proposed "Terminous Union". What migh be the terms of such an agreement? Perhaps the disbanding of the Spectres? Having all Human colonies in the Terminous (i.e. Horizon, Watson, Freedom's Progress) submit to the Terminous Union's authority?

That would create a lot of political tensity, and also give us a potential protagonist; picture yourself playing a former Spectre, stripped of your status and branded a criminal as per the terms of a treaty between the Citadel Council and Terminous Union, on the run from the entire galaxy with few people you can trust, trying desperately to halt the exspansion of the Union and restore freedom to the galaxy.

And you'd be doing it by yourself; no Alliance Military or the Council, or even an organization like Cerberus to back you up; just you, your ship, and your squad. Think of KOTOR II:The Sith Lords, playing as the Exile. I liked the atmosphere of that game, being all alone against the galaxy, on the run from bounty hunters, hunted by assassins, with only your friends for support. Speaking of which...

Part 3: Your new squad...

Characters are one of the defining elements of the Mass Effect universe, and with this new storyline likely opening up between say... 50-100 years after ME3 (depends on how long it would take to recover from the Mass relay's destruction) that means we'd need a new team; most of our old friends would be gone, but a few might still be around. Liara would likely still be alive; so would Wrex, if you didn't kill him. Krogan live as long as Asari, so that means Wrex could finally return as a squadmate, after all this time. EDI could still be alive as well.

But what of the rest? We still haven't had the chance to get a Batarian on our team; and since the Batarians would likely be inn with the proposed Terminous Union, maybe we could have a defector, or a resistance fighter as our Batarian squadmate. Maybe somebody you can't trust completely; a spy for the Union pretending to be on your side initially, but someone you can convert to your side if you become friends with him, through conversation on the Normandy (or whatever your ship might be).

There's also the chance to include new alien races, which means new potential squadmate. Or maybe show us the opposite genders of races we have seen in the Mass Effect series (female Turian, maybe? Garrus would be dead, so...).

More Possibilities...

There's a lot more that could be done with the Mass Effect universe in the next game, but all the ideas I have, at the moment. Anybody has other ideas, lay them out. I'll update this topic if anything else pops into my head, or if anyone else comes up with good ideas. It's likely to be a few years until the next game; might as well make our voices heard, let Bioware know what we want from the series, not just gameplay-wise, but story-wise as well.

Part 4: Exploration

Having adressed aspects of the new story in my previous post, let me try adressing some aspects of gameplay; while Mass Effect 3 did wonders to improve the combat of the series, there is still one major aspect of gameplay that needs to be adressed; Exploration.

Exploration has deteriorated since Mass Effect 1; planet-scanning just doesn't cut it. Though it maybe less tedious than it was in Mass Effect 2, there's still the fact that it just isn't fun.

The Hammerhead in the Overlord DLC was a step in the right direction (the side-missions in Firewalker, not so much) Fixing the vehicle's major flaws, and bringing back the open enviroments of the uncharted worlds in ME1 would do it; the only problem with ME1's side mission were the identical warehouse-levels. Bringing back the open enviroments, and supplementing the copied-and-pasted warehouses with unqiue maps like Mass Effect 3's N7 Missions would do it.

Then there's the vehicle itself; I've suggested before that Bioware re-use the original concept art for the Hammerhead (the M-57 version seen in ME2's art book) and give it the best traits of the Hammerhead and Mako; the Mako's armor and firepower, the Hammerheads superior control. That would fix the frustration of navigating the uneven terrain of uncharted worlds and also help vehicle combat.

Speaking of combat, there's also the matter of the enemies your fighting when piloting the M-57 Hammerhead; in the past, it always been infantry, stationary turrets, slow-moving Geth armatures, that sort of thing. What about fighting enemy hover-tanks? Or Mantis gunships? How about enemy troop transports that land on uncharted worlds while your exploring and spawn endless enemy infantry/hovertanks until you destroy them (like the Geth Dropships in ME1). Make vehicle combat more interesting.

By the time a new ME is out, it will be on a new console generation.
This will be both good and bad.

It will be good because it will look and sound even better than what we're used to. Also the voice acting will only get better as Bioware and the industry have grown tremendously in that regard. Also, the RAM for the next consoles will be increased and that means that the scale of the battles in the gameplay will only increase.

It will be bad depending on how early in the generation they are. Think ME1 and it's clunky gameplay. They could potentially drop the ball on some things and run into a myriad of technical issues. Nobody likes technical issues.

On the topic of technical issues, it's likely that this next series wont be a trilogy. The developers have talked previously about how the ending of the trilogy presented many issues with properly representing choices... and thus we get the Rachni queen, some crappy ME2 romances, and our space magic ending.

Instead of a trilogy, we will likely get one to two games. I think two would keep what we loved about the games (our choices carrying over and affecting the world). This limits some of the technical problems which would only be even more apparent with developing on a new system. Also this could lead to more squad continuity throughout both games. People disliked losing half of their squad for ME2, this would allow for an opportunity for the second game to have your squad truly feel like a loyal team.

Speaking of your squad, I think with the situation you've laid out (which is something I'd whole-heartedly approve of btw) 100 years allows for first contact with new species, proper implementation of the Raloi, and as you said, a way to provide a new outlook on established species.

The one squadmate that seems likely to return is Liara. She was built up so much in the 3rd game that with her age and position as shadow broker, she seems primed to be the sensai, aged counselor, and biotic specialist of the group.

Wrex seems less likely to join as he is already getting very old now. I could see the booming Krogan population (if you cured the genophage-but they could likely say that it was cured after the war or in a cold war preparation for war with the Terminus Systems) causing extreme social uproar on both the galaxy and Wrex. If any Krogan is to join, it would be Grunt; but that seems just as unlikely. This is mainly because Grunt didn't even need to be let out of his tank and could have died many times.
For a krogan-the group tank- we're much more likely to get a Krogan born after the cure which puts a twist on the established trope. I could see a Krogan artist ( I know funny) or even tech expert (perhaps sentinel without biotics and extra tech)

After that, I'd expect us to see a Raloi, Batarian, Human, Turian (female would be cool), Quarian (male) and/or Geth depending on the results of ME3, one to two new species, Salarian, and with a wildcard being Hanar (but it still seems unlikely)

From a plot standpoint, I think you're dead on. This is both the obvious and most interesting way to go. The relay destruction/obscolescence allows for a big jump into the future without advancing technology so that the game is still playable. The Humans, Turians, Asari, and Batarians are all decimated. The Salarians are to a lesser extent. The Krogan are going to be a booming superpower that will likely be the conflict set for the later half of the second game and set up a potential three way conflict. Think RGB ending, with real tangible social consequences.

The protagonist.
In my dream world, ME4 would actually be ME4: Origins. You could choose from Asari, Humanity, Raloi, Batarian, or Turian. I'm ruling out Krogan because of their powerful stance in the world. All of these species are potentially applicable because of their ruined society or their sudden surge into the galactic community.

Lastly, there is one behemoth of an elephant in the room.
The Yahg.
In 100 years, they'll emerge as a new galactic scourge that could potentially add a fourth element to this conflict. They will be space huns, and they will be the ultimate enemy that lurks as the Krogan, Council, and Terminus Systems jockey for position.

That's just my thoughts, I'm sorry about the wall of text.
there is no TL;DR





By the time a new ME is out, it will be on a new console generation.
This will be both good and bad.

It will be good because it will look and sound even better than what we're used to. Also the voice acting will only get better as Bioware and the industry have grown tremendously in that regard. Also, the RAM for the next consoles will be increased and that means that the scale of the battles in the gameplay will only increase.

It will be bad depending on how early in the generation they are. Think ME1 and it's clunky gameplay. They could potentially drop the ball on some things and run into a myriad of technical issues. Nobody likes technical issues.

On the topic of technical issues, it's likely that this next series wont be a trilogy. The developers have talked previously about how the ending of the trilogy presented many issues with properly representing choices... and thus we get the Rachni queen, some crappy ME2 romances, and our space magic ending.

Instead of a trilogy, we will likely get one to two games. I think two would keep what we loved about the games (our choices carrying over and affecting the world). This limits some of the technical problems which would only be even more apparent with developing on a new system. Also this could lead to more squad continuity throughout both games. People disliked losing half of their squad for ME2, this would allow for an opportunity for the second game to have your squad truly feel like a loyal team.

Speaking of your squad, I think with the situation you've laid out (which is something I'd whole-heartedly approve of btw) 100 years allows for first contact with new species, proper implementation of the Raloi, and as you said, a way to provide a new outlook on established species.

The one squadmate that seems likely to return is Liara. She was built up so much in the 3rd game that with her age and position as shadow broker, she seems primed to be the sensai, aged counselor, and biotic specialist of the group.

Wrex seems less likely to join as he is already getting very old now. I could see the booming Krogan population (if you cured the genophage-but they could likely say that it was cured after the war or in a cold war preparation for war with the Terminus Systems) causing extreme social uproar on both the galaxy and Wrex. If any Krogan is to join, it would be Grunt; but that seems just as unlikely. This is mainly because Grunt didn't even need to be let out of his tank and could have died many times.
For a krogan-the group tank- we're much more likely to get a Krogan born after the cure which puts a twist on the established trope. I could see a Krogan artist ( I know funny) or even tech expert (perhaps sentinel without biotics and extra tech)

After that, I'd expect us to see a Raloi, Batarian, Human, Turian (female would be cool), Quarian (male) and/or Geth depending on the results of ME3, one to two new species, Salarian, and with a wildcard being Hanar (but it still seems unlikely)

From a plot standpoint, I think you're dead on. This is both the obvious and most interesting way to go. The relay destruction/obscolescence allows for a big jump into the future without advancing technology so that the game is still playable. The Humans, Turians, Asari, and Batarians are all decimated. The Salarians are to a lesser extent. The Krogan are going to be a booming superpower that will likely be the conflict set for the later half of the second game and set up a potential three way conflict. Think RGB ending, with real tangible social consequences.

The protagonist.
In my dream world, ME4 would actually be ME4: Origins. You could choose from Asari, Humanity, Raloi, Batarian, or Turian. I'm ruling out Krogan because of their powerful stance in the world. All of these species are potentially applicable because of their ruined society or their sudden surge into the galactic community.

Lastly, there is one behemoth of an elephant in the room.
The Yahg.
In 100 years, they'll emerge as a new galactic scourge that could potentially add a fourth element to this conflict. They will be space huns, and they will be the ultimate enemy that lurks as the Krogan, Council, and Terminus Systems jockey for position.

That's just my thoughts, I'm sorry about the wall of text.
there is no TL;DR

[somewherenoplace]

actually read most of the thread, this might not be what you were interested in, but I like to think that this is interesting. I also think that they wont bother with talking about the immediate recovery, but rather with something further down the road.