83 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

fle6isnow wrote...
Very interesting thread, OP! I can't believe I haven't read through this before, as this is the exact thing I've been doing ever since I saw the endings for the first time.

I don't know if this was mentioned on the thread already, but in ME2 Matriarch Aethyta implies that the asari have the capability--or at the very least, the foundations--to make their own mass relays. At least that's how I interpreted that conversation. I like to think they just didn't have the motivation to do so because the asari are rather set in their ways, and besides, the original relay network was enough for their purposes. With the relay network destroyed though, they wouldn't be laughing at Aethyta now, would they? If they could transmit that information somehow, that would speed up the development of the relays to bring back galactic civilization.

Yes, Aethyta implies that relays can be rebuilt.

However, I would posit that knowledge is not the primary problem here. Remember Arrival? An energy equivalent to a star's in its late stage of development is bound up in a relay. Building on such a scale has not been attempted before by anyone in the ME universe, with the exception of the geth and their Dyson swarm.  So I'd say it takes one or two centuries, and that's if we're optimistic. Only in Control, where the relays are only damaged, looks things a little different.

Also, there's the question of whether it is economical to rebuild the relays, or better to improve existing FTL technology and accept travel times in years.

That's why I posited different scenarios for the three options for the final choice, not just for plausibility, because I think very different scenarios are much more interesting than similar ones:

(1) Destroy: improve existing FTL tech. Galactic civilization will never be quite what it was, but it will also be more thorough in exploration and have much more cohesive localized clusters of civilization.

(2) Control: repair the relays. Galactic civilization will be rebuilt and eventually look similar to what has come before, only now with the option to continue without being eradicated.

(3) Synthesis: something completely new happens. Traversable wormholes? People become mind-linked like the geth? Living starships? Basically, this is the ending to let your imagination run wild.

Of course everyone is free to imagine their own ending, I just thought this way it would be more interesting.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 avril 2012 - 10:35 .

[Ieldra]

somewherenoplace wrote...
actually read most of the thread, this might not be what you were interested in, but I like to think that this is interesting. I also think that they wont bother with talking about the immediate recovery, but rather with something further down the road.

You raise some interesting points in your long post, but actually I'm not interested in a game set post-ME3. They could never account for the effects of the final choice unless they make one option canonical. Since that would not be the option I take with my primary Shepards, I would have reason to dislike the setup. 

[Ieldra]

Here a refutation of the criticism that "travel between spiral arms by standard FTL is impossible because there are no star systems for refueling and recharging."

The fact is: the stellar density between spiral arms is not much lower than in spiral arms. Spiral arms appear brighter because they contain more bright, young stars, while the areas between spiral arms contain older and smaller stars (large stars die young).

Which means that FTL travel might actually be easier in the regions between spiral arms because the physical conditions are much more stable. Real star clusters (as opposed to the areas of space called "clusters" by ME terminology) aren't particularly stable regions because stars are so close to each other that they can disrupt each other's systems.

[Ieldra]

Given the recent flare of negativity, I feel justified in bumping this thread.

The galaxy is not a complete wasteland, inter-system travel and colonization is still possible. Only a cohesive galactic civilization might need some time to rebuild, less in Control, somewhat more in Synthesis, and rather a lot in Destroy.

See the OP for details.

[Ieldra]

Since this didn't get any attention on its own thread, I'll repost it here:

"Mass Effect-initiated self-affecting FTL jump technology":

This is the long-range FTL technology which I designed for the post-Synthesis civilization as an alternative to the destroyed mass relays

Principles and limitations:
The general principle for technology within my scenario was "decentralized technology, small is more effective". No more should long-range FTL depend on giant structures that would take a century to build. It was also my goal to provide a plausible incentive towards smaller ships and miniaturization of ship components.. Fortunately, the ME lore provides me with just the right tools (see below).
So that means no more mass-relay-like structures. Ships will have their own built-in long-range FTL capability. But since unlimited long-range FTL is as boring as no long-range FTL is depressing, there need to be limitations.
As a third principle, the new technology should be based on eezo and the "mass effect" because otherwise it wouldn't be Mass Effect, right?

Why not rebuild mass relays?
My proposal uses relay-like technology, so you could ask why not rebuild relays in the first place? I think that the primary problem with rebuilding relays is not knowledge but resources. The energy equivalent of a star's is bound up in a large mass relay. Such a thing would take centuries to build - the expenditure of resources is so immense that there is a big pressure to find alternative solutions.

How it works:
Relay-like functionality in starships:
I propose that it is possible to construct ME core variants for starships that let them create their own "mass-free corridors" (I'm using the lore in full acknowledgement of the fact that this makes no scientific sense). This would effectly be like carrying your own mass relay with you. Miniaturized relay functionality is known since the discovery of the Conduit, and the principles of relay construction are likely well-known as well, or Aethyta couldn't have proposed building new ones in ME2.

Limitation: endpoint only near stars of a minimum size
No artificial structures are needed at the endpoint of an FTL jump, but still you can't just go anywhere. The endpoint of your jump must be at a gravity gradient of a certain minimum steepness. I.e. near a star of a certain minimum mass. In addition, the star must be dense enough because otherwise you'd end up in the star rather than around it. 
Above that minimum mass, any increase in the target's mass will make it reachable from further away. Pulsars and neutron stars make great long-distance targets (i.e. strategic choke points) but also pose some danger to ships because of their tidal effects.
This will create regions of the galaxy which are easier to travel to than others. Regions with mostly old stars (which are small) will be hard to reach, the dense regions of the spiral arms with many hot young stars will be easy to reach. As an example, if the minimum size is the mass of an A1 main sequence star, there will be one star in the solar neighbourhood which can be reached with a long-range jump. The remaining 8ly from Sirius to Sol would have to be traveled using "standard" FTL.

Limitation: ship size
According to the Codex, the required mass for the mass effect core of a ship increases exponentially to its size and its speed. This has a consequence I don't think anyone has thought through yet: There is a theoretical maximum to the size of an FTL-capable starship. Why? Well, because the exponential formula means that if you increase the ships's mass further and further, you inevitably reach a point where the mass of the ME core required to put the ship into FTL becomes greater than the ship's mass!
WIth "standard" FTL, this obviously isn't much of a limitation, otherwise ships like the Destiny Ascension couldn't exist. But suppose that using the new FTL jump technology, the requirements for the ME core are far more restrictive. Just by increasing the basis of the exponential formula, you could arrive at a scenario where the ME cores of a fighter-sized craft must have the mass of the fully loaded ship. Ships even slightly bigger just couldn't be built with long-range FTL capability. I propose that the theoretical maximum for the mass of a FTL jump-capable starship lies around the mass of a fully loaded fighter craft.

Consequences for economics and logistics:
The obvious consequences of such a scenario as easy to see: large ships will be restricted to non-jump "standard" FTL and take a very long time - months or years - to reach distant destinations. This will limit colonization and trade of bulk goods. Colonies will have to be more self-sufficient. On the other hand, trade of valuable low-weight goods will flourish, and communication is easy. Dedicated courier ships, perhaps even in the form of automated drones, will carry news and mail easily over long distances, QE devices can be refueled easily to that galactic civilization is held together. Something like a galaxy-wide extranet will take some time to create because of the expense of QE devices which are the only available way for long-distance instant communcation, but it's by no means impossible.
Individuals and small groups of people will be comparatively mobile, depending on how expensive the ME cores for small starships are. There will be an extreme pressure towards miniaturization of starship components, since the exponential formula means that very small ships are significantly cheaper to build and to operate.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 avril 2012 - 08:11 .

[Ieldra]

Updated the OP about drive core recharging. New entry:

(3) Drive core discharge: can be done at any gas giant or any other celestial body with a magnetic field. Given the star density around Sol (which is low), there are over 200 stars within the range of the two-day trip a starship can travel without recharging. Since by current estimation, about 40% of all stars have planets and most planets are gas giants, this should present no problem at all.

Calculation goes like this (not included in the OP):

A trip of two days = 24 light years.

A sphere with a radius of 24 light years has (4/3) * PI * 24^3 = 57906 cubic light years

Star density around Sol is about 0.004 stars per cubic light year.

That means in this sphere of 24 ly radius, there are 57906 * 0,004 = 231 stars

About 40% of all stars have planets, that means there are about 90 star systems in this sphere, most of which will have one or more gas giants.

I conclude: drive core discharge is not a big problem, for the same reason as fuel is no problem.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 avril 2012 - 11:00 .

[Ieldra]

Bumping this since the topic has come up several times in separate threads.

[SaleemRa]

Nice thread Ieldra2, good to see that there are others out there who dont think that the end of ME3 spells the end of galactic civ. Life always finds a way, this has even been said in game. Sure isolated and non self sustaining communities (ie military outposts, space stations, mining operations) will probably die out but most civilian colonies should be able to rebuild in the aftermath.

Even if FTL travel takes much longer due to having to make detours around the galaxy stuff like cryo tech exist in universe so its implementation would not be an issue as you have pointed out.

Good stuff all round.

[Ieldra]

SaleemRa wrote...
Nice thread Ieldra2, good to see that there are others out there who dont think that the end of ME3 spells the end of galactic civ. Life always finds a way, this has even been said in game. Sure isolated and non self sustaining communities (ie military outposts, space stations, mining operations) will probably die out but most civilian colonies should be able to rebuild in the aftermath.

Even if FTL travel takes much longer due to having to make detours around the galaxy stuff like cryo tech exist in universe so its implementation would not be an issue as you have pointed out.

Good stuff all round.

Thank you.

But perhaps you didn't understand what I'm doing with this thread. I think ME3's ending does indeed heavily suggest - and intentionally suggest - that there is a dark age of the galaxy which will last a few thousand years. I wanted to take advantage of the fact that the game doesn't outright *say* it or show it in unambiguous terms to create a less depressing outcome.

Fortunately, Bioware appears to have gone back on that somewhat, given certain comments, and taken some inspiration from threads like this perhaps. I hope that the EC will reflect that changed stance.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 mai 2012 - 08:38 .