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#76
Gliese

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jivebeaver wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

This mod really isn't for them though. The default tooltips are 99% accurate but very vague. If you have no interest in min-maxing they are fine.


On that note, anybody who is interested in downloading this would most likely know what the "cunning modifier" is or whatever basic game mechanics like spellpower are.  Filling it with heavy math formating is just unnecessary.  Some just want to know where the skills stand with constants and scaling, "+1/3 of the cunning modifier" is just as useful as +0.333*(CUN-10)


Agreed, and if 1/3 is inconsistent then one could just use text and write "one third of the cunning modifier". That wouldn't be quite as noticeable but much less ugly than the math.

Anyhow, love this project. Big thanks! :wub:

#77
Bibdy

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Gah, looks like a lot of testing is going to be involved in figuring out Shale's abilities and poisons.

So, who wants to roll a Rogue, pick up Shale and do the grunt work? :whistle:

#78
Sylvius the Mad

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I love this mod, by the way. If I'd known these details from the beginning, I would have been using spells quite differently (I had no idea Mind Blast eliminated aggro, for example).

#79
Bibdy

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I love this mod, by the way. If I'd known these details from the beginning, I would have been using spells quite differently (I had no idea Mind Blast eliminated aggro, for example).


Yeah, had I known how Chain Lightning worked, I would have used it. All I had to go on was the fact that

A) Enemies were throwing chain lightning at me and utterly destroying my party

and

B) It said "Friendly Fire possible"

Which made me think "Well there's no effing way I'm going to launch one of those into my melee and kick their asses". Now that I know it doesn't actually hit friendlies (unless you target a friendly with the initial cast...why?), its gone from 'utter crap' to 'totally cool' instantly.

Modifié par Bibdy, 04 décembre 2009 - 06:27 .


#80
vicariouscheese

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Bibdy wrote...

Gah, looks like a lot of testing is going to be involved in figuring out Shale's abilities and poisons.

So, who wants to roll a Rogue, pick up Shale and do the grunt work? :whistle:


i just rolled a rogue, am at the fade in the circle and will be getting shale next


what do you need seen :P  i might not be able to do in depth work but im sure every little bit helps, no?

#81
Bibdy

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I was kinda joking. It would be hard to figure out all the information to complete the tooltips like all damage calculations, mana/stamina regen bonuses, threat generation etc.

I think its just going to be a dead end at this point, unless we get the source code, which I don't see happening, since if we had the source code, people could just compile it and distribute the DLC around for free...which would be bad for business.

Best I can do is tidy up the tooltip descriptions. Shale's, in particular, are somewhat of a cluster**** of info.

Modifié par Bibdy, 04 décembre 2009 - 09:02 .


#82
Matthew Young CT

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we only need to confirm the poison stuff. i guess i'll do it tomorrow :>



the source code (especially just for abilities) is completely useless on its own, so we can surely beg georg to give it to us :D



plus the dlc is cracked anyway =(

#83
Georg Zoeller

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This is complicated, let me try:

itemproperties.xls defines all item properties, some of which match to ENCHANTEMENT_* constants

each item property defines an effect id which is generated and has it's data fields populated from the 2da.

these effects are most often effects applied to the wearer of the item while it is equipped - they are not the effect that is applied to the target.

The field of the effect defined in  the 'scaling vector'  column is multiplied with the POWER of the item (as defined on the item template) when the effect is created. If no item is involved (e.g. with enchantment spells, the script that applies the item property sets the power by it's own rules (e.g. char level /5)).

However there is a special type of item properties (type field) that defines active 'on hit' behavior. OnHit type item properties have a 'post procssing' handler which is invoked from the engine whenever a physical hit happens during a COMMAND_ATTACK, which is defined in rules core.

It invokes the handler from there which is defined in sys_itemprops or something (don't remember right now, no
toolset handy). All OnHit effect logic is in that script - nothing hardcoded there.

I wouldn't give to much about those comments, I know Peter reworked a lot of the poison stuff pretty close to ship, not sure if those comments got updated all along with that.

Hope that helps you out.

Bidby is credit to team :)



Bibdy wrote...

1.4 is up, complete with potion and trap tooltips!



Would anyone be so kind as to figure out how in the heck poisons work? Right now, all I have to go on are some comments in the effect_enchantment_h file, which state

const int ENCHANTMENT_FIRE_COATING                   = 3003; // 2 fire damage per power
const int ENCHANTMENT_COLD_COATING                   = 3004; // 2 cold damage per power
const int ENCHANTMENT_LIGHTNING_COATING              = 3005; // 2 electricity damage per power
const int ENCHANTMENT_NATURE_COATING                 = 3006; // 2 nature damage per power
const int ENCHANTMENT_SPIRIT_COATING                 = 3007; // 2 spirit damage per power
const int ENCHANTMENT_VENOM                          = 3008; // 1 nature damage per power, 0.1 slow per power for 5s (unresistable)
const int ENCHANTMENT_DEATHROOT_EXTRACT              = 3009; // 1 nature damage per power, 2s stun per power (resistable)
const int ENCHANTMENT_CROW_POISON                    = 3010; // 2 nature damage per power, 0.1 slow per power for 5s (unresistable), 2s stun per power (resistable)
const int ENCHANTMENT_SOLDIERS_BANE                  = 3011; // 5 stamina damage per power (non-mages only)
const int ENCHANTMENT_MAGEBANE                       = 3012; // 5 mana damage per power (mages only)
const int ENCHANTMENT_DEMONIC_POISON                 = 3013; // 5 spirit damage per power
const int ENCHANTMENT_QUIET_DEATH                    = 3014; // 10 nature damage per power, instant kill creatures 20% or less max health


Which isn't very clear. I have a hunch that power means ([Character level/5]+1), but beyond that, I haven't a clue where the numbers come from, or if they're even still accurate.


Modifié par Georg Zoeller, 05 décembre 2009 - 02:54 .


#84
johngaltjr

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Thank you bidby this is terrific!  

This should be added to the next patch as a "show game mechanics" option.  I'd gladly take it over the silly persistent super-evenly distributed blood splatter.

Modifié par johngaltjr, 05 décembre 2009 - 04:45 .


#85
Statue

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Here's a couple more screenies that serve well to illustrate the mod's value - I've chosen Mind Blast as it's one of those where the modded description not only adds specifics (duration in this case) but also reveals an effect not suggested by the vanilla description at all. Posted vanilla and modded for comparison purposes. Feel free to add them to the gallery :)

Vanilla
Image IPB

Modded (1.4)
Image IPB

#86
Matthew Young CT

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yeah the resetting aggro thing is the main selling point on mind blast really :P



Bidby: what's the deal with haste? the code seems to modify it as

effect eEffect = EffectModifyProperty(PROPERTY_ATTRIBUTE_REGENERATION_STAMINA_COMBAT, (REGENERATION_STAMINA_COMBAT_DEGENERATION - 1.0f) );


REGENERATION_STAMINA_COMBAT_DEGENERATION is -2, so doesnt that make haste -3?

but then the const HASTE_MANA_REGENERATION_PENALTY is indeed -10. so im confused :D


#87
T1l

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I haven't had a chance to use this addon yet, but my god, the creator of this mod is a legend.

#88
hermes11

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Great idea, and great project, gives a lot more information that helps me decide what to do in various situations. I look forward to any future revisions that include salves/poisons. The strategy guide has some information that might help you here.

#89
Bibdy

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hermes11 wrote...

Great idea, and great project, gives a lot more information that helps me decide what to do in various situations. I look forward to any future revisions that include salves/poisons. The strategy guide has some information that might help you here.


The latest version (1.4) actually includes tooltips for potions and salves :)

#90
hermes11

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Ah, awesome, thanks again for undertaking this!

#91
jivebeaver

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Does Threaten double threat from ALL sources from a warrior? ie Taunt doubling from 300 to 600?

#92
Matthew Young CT

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no its damage only

#93
Zealuu

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I've been playing with this mod on now for the last couple of hours, and I love being able to get solid numbers instead of vague descriptions. My thanks to the author.

#94
Georg Zoeller

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2 stats, one governs combat mode one governs explore mode.

Matthew Young CT wrote...

yeah the resetting aggro thing is the main selling point on mind blast really :P

Bidby: what's the deal with haste? the code seems to modify it as

effect eEffect = EffectModifyProperty(PROPERTY_ATTRIBUTE_REGENERATION_STAMINA_COMBAT, (REGENERATION_STAMINA_COMBAT_DEGENERATION - 1.0f) );

REGENERATION_STAMINA_COMBAT_DEGENERATION is -2, so doesnt that make haste -3?
but then the const HASTE_MANA_REGENERATION_PENALTY is indeed -10. so im confused :D



#95
Xeddicus_Xor

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Awesome mod. Keep up the good work.

#96
Bibdy

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Put 1.41 with a quick fix to the haste tooltip. It was indeed -3.0, I just assumed the value const float HASTE_MANA_REGENERATION_PENALTY = -10.0f;, was the penalty. And you know what they say about assumptions ;)

#97
Lacan2

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Thank you! This should have been what shipped with the game. :/ The spell descriptions were about as useful as "this spell is totally awesome!"

#98
johngaltjr

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Lacan2 wrote...

Thank you! This should have been what shipped with the game. :/ The spell descriptions were about as useful as "this spell is totally awesome!"


haha yeah

#99
MachDelta

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I poked around with poisons and I think I have most of it figured out, but I can't seem to nail down where this Power factor is coming from for the various poisons. There has to be some sort of multiplier that differentiates Concentrated poisons from their regular types, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

#100
Matthew Young CT

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Bump for the poor souls who don't know of this mod.

MachDelta wrote...
I poked around with poisons and I think I have most of it figured out, but I can't seem to nail down where this Power factor is coming from for the various poisons. There has to be some sort of multiplier that differentiates Concentrated poisons from their regular types, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.


It seems to be second variable passed to EffectEnchantment in item_singletarget. For example deathroot extract passes type ENCHANTMENT_DEATHROOT_EXTRACT, 1; concentrated deathroot extract passes the same enchantment but with a 2, and fleshrot is again the same enchantment with a 3.

Oh and tell me how the rest of it works so I don't have to figure it out myself :D

Bibdy, where are you getting the momentum info from? talent_modal seems to say it gives MOMENTUM_ANIMATION_SPEED_INCREASE (-0.3 in talent_constants_h) to PROPERTY_ATTRIBUTE_ATTACK_SPEED_MODIFIER. Tooltip says 42% attack speed increase though?

Modifié par Matthew Young CT, 07 décembre 2009 - 04:28 .