385 réponses à ce sujet

[Captian Cornhole]

I think alot of us here are too quick to judge the Illusive Man's character and portray him as one of those "black and white" villains that are evil for the sake of being evil.

However, in my personal opinion this couldn't be further from the truth. The Illusive Man's goal was to "always put humanity first", now alot of the time it looked like his only motives were to gain power for himself. Which often did happen as a result from his actions, but I think of it more as a side effect from his true motives, which is humanity first. I think alot of us view TIM as a liar cause we don't see how he is improving humanity through his actions, so we instinctively go to the default assertion that TIM is just a power hungry chain smoker. After all he is the guy who wanted to control the Reapers right?

The bottom line is that The Illusive Man isn't that much different then Shepard. They both want to save humanity, bu any means possible. All the Illusive Man's actions; Overlord, Lazarus, the Pragia Facility, attacking Grissom, turning his soilders into husks, processing civilians into husks and all the other nasty **** he has done has in most cases led to some breakthough that can better humanity. Even Commander Shepard's decisions have backfired on him/her, (look at the Rachni or roles you can place squadmembers in the suicide mission) TIM and Shepard are just doing what they think is right.

Obviously the TIM is cruel and ruthless, but also can the same be said for Commander Shepard? I would say so. After all  don't ends justify the means, do they not? What is the loss of a few million people if you can save the galaxy from the Reapers? Yeah, it's tragic. But it would have worked, TIM would have controlled the Reapers if he wouldn't have gotten himself indoctrinated first. He was right all along, even Shepard has the option to control the Reapers.

In the end, The Illusive Man can be much more of a jerk then Commander Shepard, but they are nearly the same in regaurds to their goals for stopping Harbinger and his pals.

[Daforth]

I never thought TIM's goals are evil (at least from human viewpoint), however his methods are.

[MrGuse]

Goebbels just wanted Germany best interests put forward. That doesn't make his actions any less evil.

[Captian Cornhole]

MrGuse wrote...

Goebbels just wanted Germany best interests put forward. That doesn't make his actions any less evil.

Really your going to play the N-a-z-i card? In that case you might as well be comparing the Jews, and gypsys and homosexuals to the pure evil of the Reapers. I hope your not that would be very bigoted of you.

I'll cut directly to the point, sure TIM has done bad stuff (no concentration camps mind you) but it was all to counter act the serious threat of the Reapers. The N-a-z-i-s did horrible stuff only to solidify their power base, and because they belived the racist lies.

Modifié par Captian Cornhole, 28 mars 2012 - 02:53 .

[Farbautisonn]

Lulz... "the card" pulled in post 3.

[LexXxich]

He's as evil as Ammon Jerro. It's in his character sheet.

[DarkCaje]

He'd make a good Republican presidential candidate

[Farbautisonn]

DarkCaje wrote...

He'd make a good Republican presidential candidate

Considering some of the democrats that have been president, I'd say that goes both ways.

[MrGuse]

Captian Cornhole wrote...

MrGuse wrote...

Goebbels just wanted Germany best interests put forward. That doesn't make his actions any less evil.

Really your going to play the N-a-z-i card? In that case you might as well be comparing the Jews, and gypsys and homosexuals to the pure evil of the Reapers. I hope your not that would be very bigoted of you.

I'll cut directly to the point, sure TIM has done bad stuff (no concentration camps mind you) but it was all to counter act the serious threat of the Reapers. The N-a-z-i-s did horrible stuff only to solidify their power base, and because they belived the racist lies.

Would using Pol Pot have made you happier? Is that less bigoted?

Oh, and he did use concentration camps. It had a name (spoiler-y, so I wont say it.)

Modifié par MrGuse, 28 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[DarkCaje]

Farbautisonn wrote...

DarkCaje wrote...

He'd make a good Republican presidential candidate

Considering some of the democrats that have been president, I'd say that goes both ways.

Can't disagree 

[Palidane]

Captian Cornhole wrote...
sure TIM has done bad stuff (no concentration camps mind you) but it was all to counter act the serious threat of the Reapers. The N-a-z-i-s did horrible stuff only to solidify their power base, and because they belived the racist lies.

You don't think much do you? Spoiler? was incredbily ridiculously obviously a concentration camp, in every single sense of the word. I am flabbergasted that anyone completed that mission and didn't immediatley think of a concentration camp.

And I'd like to point out the Cerberus is founded on racism. Utterly. He wanted to save Reaper tech so he could ascend humanity over everyone else.

If TIM has his own mind, I would place him as one of the top 5 most evil humans to ever live.

Modifié par Palidane, 28 mars 2012 - 04:14 .

[MrGuse]

You might want to edit out the S-word in your post Palidane... it's the no spoiler forum.

[unbentbuzzkill]

no TIM isn't evil just very delusional.

[Arkitekt]

Pol Pot wasn't dealing with Reapers. What an astonishingly lobotomized argument.

[Tymvir]

TIM seemed extremely power-hungry and selfish, not desperate to save humanity because he valued life. A less extreme version of Cerberus' ideology could have led to a more interesting choice at the end of the game. I personally would have picked the "control" choice, but that choice was always portrayed as crazy and as hybris (or even caused by indoctrination).

[Captian Cornhole]

MrGuse wrote...

Captian Cornhole wrote...

MrGuse wrote...

Goebbels just wanted Germany best interests put forward. That doesn't make his actions any less evil.

Really your going to play the N-a-z-i card? In that case you might as well be comparing the Jews, and gypsys and homosexuals to the pure evil of the Reapers. I hope your not that would be very bigoted of you.

I'll cut directly to the point, sure TIM has done bad stuff (no concentration camps mind you) but it was all to counter act the serious threat of the Reapers. The N-a-z-i-s did horrible stuff only to solidify their power base, and because they belived the racist lies.

Would using Pol Pot have made you happier? Is that less bigoted?

Oh, and he did use concentration camps. It had a name (spoiler-y, so I wont say it.)

Lol, judging by your responce it sounded very bigoted, drawing a comparison like that. Cause that what your doing isn't it? And that isn't just for Germany, that goes for the victims of any regime. 

And if your regering to Horizon/Sanctuary, that was a processing center not a camp.

[MrGuse]

Arkitekt wrote...

Pol Pot wasn't dealing with Reapers. What an astonishingly lobotomized argument.

Okay, cool. I wasn't aware that mass killings were justified if you had a good enough reason. Good to know.

[AkiKishi]

Palidane wrote...

Captian Cornhole wrote...
sure TIM has done bad stuff (no concentration camps mind you) but it was all to counter act the serious threat of the Reapers. The N-a-z-i-s did horrible stuff only to solidify their power base, and because they belived the racist lies.

You don't think much do you? Sanctuary was incredbily ridiculously obviously a concentration camp, in every single sense of the word. I am flabbergasted that anyone completed that mission and didn't immediatley think of a concentration camp.

And I'd like to point out the Cerberus is founded on racism. Utterly. He wanted to save Reaper tech so he could ascend humanity over everyone else.

If TIM has his own mind, I would place him as one of the top 5 most evil humans to ever live.

I did. Do I get a cookie?

[Enhanced]

Based on what he did and the definition of evil, yes he's evil.

Modifié par Enhanced, 28 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[Merchant2006]

MrGuse wrote...

Goebbels just wanted Germany best interests put forward. That doesn't make his actions any less evil.

Lmao, 3rd post. N-card pulled.

And here.... we... go.

[Farbautisonn]

MrGuse wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Pol Pot wasn't dealing with Reapers. What an astonishingly lobotomized argument.

Okay, cool. I wasn't aware that mass killings were justified if you had a good enough reason. Good to know.

-Mass Killing? Nope. But taking a hit to ensure the survival of the species and indeed the universe? You betcha.

300K batarians killed just to delay the Reapers. 

Doesnt make it any more palatable, but if you are in command you end up making judgement calls that gets people killed. Even civillians.

[MrGuse]

My work here is done.

[Arkitekt]

MrGuse wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Pol Pot wasn't dealing with Reapers. What an astonishingly lobotomized argument.

Okay, cool. I wasn't aware that mass killings were justified if you had a good enough reason. Good to know.

Stop saying stupid things. Of course that if you have a "good enough reason", then logically (and I mean that in the logical inevitable sense) mass killings are justified, right the frak there.

The real question is if whether the case as presented in ME3 is "good enough reason". For this we have to understand TIM's strategy. Now you indignated folks should pause for a second and understand that we are dealing with the almost inevitable scenario of extinction of every advanced organic race in the galaxy. If TIM had the idea that the only possible solution was to cut corners in the most extreme (and evil) of ways, would he be right to do it or not?

I'm posing it as an open question. I am not saying that TIM isn't evil.

[Farbautisonn]

Considering the endings we got, the ME2 TIM has a point.... Someone needs to look out for humanity.

[Captian Cornhole]

Palidane wrote...

Captian Cornhole wrote...
sure TIM has done bad stuff (no concentration camps mind you) but it was all to counter act the serious threat of the Reapers. The N-a-z-i-s did horrible stuff only to solidify their power base, and because they belived the racist lies.

You don't think much do you? Sanctuary was incredbily ridiculously obviously a concentration camp, in every single sense of the word. I am flabbergasted that anyone completed that mission and didn't immediatley think of a concentration camp.

And I'd like to point out the Cerberus is founded on racism. Utterly. He wanted to save Reaper tech so he could ascend humanity over everyone else.

If TIM has his own mind, I would place him as one of the top 5 most evil humans to ever live.

The difference between Sanctuary and the camps is that the people in there were not rounded up by force. On Sanctuary people came by choice, Cerberus didn't force them. Of course once they got there I'm sure they were not allowed to leave, but before the time they got turned into husks they had good living accomidations. Which is more then I can say for the victims of Hitler. Cerberus is founded on preserving humanity, preserving humanity isn't racism. The Salarians have their task group and the Asari have their comandos to help preseve their species.

I'm not saying there isn't racism inside of Cerberus. But the act of putting humanity first isn't racist. In the real world, if you wish for the best for your country would that be racist or bigoted? No of course not, as humans we have a need for self preservation, that is what TIM is doing, regaurdless of his means. So unless you regaurd self preservation as racist wouldn't that make us all racist. And if were all racist, then your argument against TIM doesn't have a leg to stand on.

And btw, just think about all the stuff and advancements we could learn from the Reapers. To say what TIM would have done with the Reapers if he would have had his way is all speculation. But the potential for humanity and other species though controlling and learning from them would be huge.