385 réponses à ce sujet

[Hunter of Legends]

His goal is certainly noble and his views respectable but his methods are needlessly ruthless and his resource management is horrible.

All in all, good goal; evil methods; untrustworthy man.

[ungodlike]

Whatever your perspective whatever idealistic goals TIM had were twisted subtlety by the Reapers as well as his own ruthlessness to preserve humanity and put it above the galaxy to have it ascend all in the name of the greater good, no matter the cost in money, lives even it cost him his own humanity, in the end his own idealism blinded him and he became a tool for the reapers.

He was willing to sacrifice his own humanity and the rest of humanity so he/humanity could "ascend" to "control/become reapers".

Was he evil? who knows evil and good is subjective. He believed what he was doing was in the interests of humanity and for the "greater good", yet what he did from other peoples perspectives was betray humanity in its darkest hour which because he believed we would ascend as well as all his other actions mentioned that he justified in the name of "greater good" somewhere along the line he crossed the point of no return sacrificing so much of humanity that his actions could be considered just "evil".

But then you all can decide by your own standards of morality.

[Naughty Bear]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

His goal is certainly noble and his views respectable but his methods are needlessly ruthless and his resource management is horrible.

All in all, good goal; evil methods; untrustworthy man.

Yeah his management of resources is terrible.

But some of his methods are necessary, i think they are anyway. I still believe 'the ends justify the means' is logical.

[Naughty Bear]

ungodlike wrote...

Whatever your perspective whatever idealistic goals TIM had were twisted subtlety by the Reapers as well as his own ruthlessness to preserve humanity and put it above the galaxy to have it ascend all in the name of the greater good, no matter the cost in money, lives even it cost him his own humanity, in the end his own idealism blinded him and he became a tool for the reapers.

He was willing to sacrifice his own humanity and the rest of humanity so he/humanity could "ascend" to "control/become reapers".

Was he evil? who knows evil and good is subjective. He believed what he was doing was in the interests of humanity and for the "greater good", yet what he did from other peoples perspectives was betray humanity in its darkest hour which because he believed we would ascend as well as all his other actions mentioned that he justified in the name of "greater good" somewhere along the line he crossed the point of no return sacrificing so much of humanity that his actions could be considered just "evil".

But then you all can decide by your own standards of morality.

He became fully indoctrinated. He isn't the only indoctrinated person to believe it or attempt at it. The Prothean VI on Thessia said that indoctrinated protheans believed the Reapers can be controlled, a Hanar diplomat or ambassador was also indoctrinated and believed handing over his homeworld to the Reapers was logical.

Amanda Kenson after coming into contact with Project Rho started to have doubts and after becoming full blown indoctrinated, believed it was necessary to allow the reapers to attack and also thought delaying or stopping them was a bad thing.

And lets not forget dear old Saren.

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 28 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[Hunter of Legends]

Mesina2 wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

It's not just the indoctrination part that makes him terrible, but to be honest, wanting to be implanted made me go "wuut". Though he wasn't anything impressive in ME2 either.

Bad writing. If Mass Effect 2 even had a decent and creative writer, he could of been decent.

Same could be said of a lot of things. But seriously, BW's writing has never been something to brag about, neither any of the antagonist (excluding Loghain and Architect).

What about Kai L... wait, I'm only one who thinks he's a good villain.

Why would you think that?

The only thing he's good at is being a take that at Japanese badasses and villains.

[Naughty Bear]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

It's not just the indoctrination part that makes him terrible, but to be honest, wanting to be implanted made me go "wuut". Though he wasn't anything impressive in ME2 either.

Bad writing. If Mass Effect 2 even had a decent and creative writer, he could of been decent.

Same could be said of a lot of things. But seriously, BW's writing has never been something to brag about, neither any of the antagonist (excluding Loghain and Architect).

What about Kai L... wait, I'm only one who thinks he's a good villain.

Why would you think that?

The only thing he's good at is being a take that at Japanese badasses and villains.

He was a terrible stereotype. Asian, carried a sword and did backflips and other martial arts? He had so much potential and i was hping he actually hunts Shepard down. Such as that art work where an assassins breaks into Sheps quarters or that picture with him standing on top of Shepard.

Those email taunts could of become the start of something great and bad ass, but he fell flat on his face.

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 28 mars 2012 - 07:31 .

[Bad King]

He's morally ambiguous in ME2 as he is revealed to have committed both ruthless and kind acts, but in ME3, BioWare scrapped the 'let players decide for themselves' idea and decided to turn him into Dr. Evil. They constantly thrust how evil Cerberus is down our throats to the degree that it became somewhat of a parody and I ended up finding all the lolevil experiments somewhat humorous rather than repulsive.

[Hunter of Legends]

Farbautisonn wrote...

I think TIM was pisspoor handled in ME3 but then so was alot of things...

I actually think he was handled quite nicely.

[Naughty Bear]

Bad King wrote...

He's morally ambiguous in ME2 as he is revealed to have committed both ruthless and kind acts, but in ME3, BioWare scrapped the 'let players decide for themselves' idea and decided to turn him into Dr. Evil. They constantly thrust how evil Cerberus is down our throats to the degree that it became somewhat of a parody and I ended up finding all the lolevil experiments somewhat humorous rather than repulsive.

Unfortunately this.

How can TIM just keep ****ing up every  experiment?

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 28 mars 2012 - 07:33 .

[Bad King]

MrGuse wrote...

Captian Cornhole wrote...

MrGuse wrote...

Goebbels just wanted Germany best interests put forward. That doesn't make his actions any less evil.

Really your going to play the N-a-z-i card? In that case you might as well be comparing the Jews, and gypsys and homosexuals to the pure evil of the Reapers. I hope your not that would be very bigoted of you.

I'll cut directly to the point, sure TIM has done bad stuff (no concentration camps mind you) but it was all to counter act the serious threat of the Reapers. The N-a-z-i-s did horrible stuff only to solidify their power base, and because they belived the racist lies.

Would using Pol Pot have made you happier? Is that less bigoted?

Oh, and he did use concentration camps. It had a name (spoiler-y, so I wont say it.)

I think you mean extermination camps. Concentration camps were where political enemies were sent often temporarily and weren't only used by the n-azis.

[Hunter of Legends]

Bad King wrote...

He's morally ambiguous in ME2 as he is revealed to have committed both ruthless and kind acts, but in ME3, BioWare scrapped the 'let players decide for themselves' idea and decided to turn him into Dr. Evil. They constantly thrust how evil Cerberus is down our throats to the degree that it became somewhat of a parody and I ended up finding all the lolevil experiments somewhat humorous rather than repulsive.

Actually if you read between the lines Cerberus isn't evil.

They sacrificed their humanity to beat the reapers and essentially became them.

[Naughty Bear]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Bad King wrote...

He's morally ambiguous in ME2 as he is revealed to have committed both ruthless and kind acts, but in ME3, BioWare scrapped the 'let players decide for themselves' idea and decided to turn him into Dr. Evil. They constantly thrust how evil Cerberus is down our throats to the degree that it became somewhat of a parody and I ended up finding all the lolevil experiments somewhat humorous rather than repulsive.

Actually if you read between the lines Cerberus isn't evil.

They sacrificed their humanity to beat the reapers and essentially became them.

*cough* indoctrination *cough*

[Hunter of Legends]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Bad King wrote...

He's morally ambiguous in ME2 as he is revealed to have committed both ruthless and kind acts, but in ME3, BioWare scrapped the 'let players decide for themselves' idea and decided to turn him into Dr. Evil. They constantly thrust how evil Cerberus is down our throats to the degree that it became somewhat of a parody and I ended up finding all the lolevil experiments somewhat humorous rather than repulsive.

Actually if you read between the lines Cerberus isn't evil.

They sacrificed their humanity to beat the reapers and essentially became them.

*cough* indoctrination *cough*

Later in the story yes.

TIM made the decision in the first place to go down this path.

[Naughty Bear]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Bad King wrote...

He's morally ambiguous in ME2 as he is revealed to have committed both ruthless and kind acts, but in ME3, BioWare scrapped the 'let players decide for themselves' idea and decided to turn him into Dr. Evil. They constantly thrust how evil Cerberus is down our throats to the degree that it became somewhat of a parody and I ended up finding all the lolevil experiments somewhat humorous rather than repulsive.

Actually if you read between the lines Cerberus isn't evil.

They sacrificed their humanity to beat the reapers and essentially became them.

*cough* indoctrination *cough*

Later in the story yes.

TIM made the decision in the first place to go down this path.

Or Bioware made him that way.

God it annoys me, he could of had so much potential!

TIM knew what could and would happen, jeez TIM, WHY?!

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 28 mars 2012 - 07:41 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

His goal is certainly noble.

His goal involves subjugating other species, so no, I wouldn't call that noble.

[Harshfact]

Bad King wrote...

He's morally ambiguous in ME2 as he is revealed to have committed both ruthless and kind acts, but in ME3, BioWare scrapped the 'let players decide for themselves' idea and decided to turn him into Dr. Evil. They constantly thrust how evil Cerberus is down our throats to the degree that it became somewhat of a parody and I ended up finding all the lolevil experiments somewhat humorous rather than repulsive.

WHat faile expirement ? in ME 2 there was lots of failed expirement but the only one i remember in ME 3 that actually failed is the camp and it didn't technichally fail, the reapers evaded as far as i recall and before that, they had got actuall results, TIM had a frigging army for christ's sake, which i assume was the result of the same pratice unless i missed something more in ME 3  ?

[Hunter of Legends]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Bad King wrote...

He's morally ambiguous in ME2 as he is revealed to have committed both ruthless and kind acts, but in ME3, BioWare scrapped the 'let players decide for themselves' idea and decided to turn him into Dr. Evil. They constantly thrust how evil Cerberus is down our throats to the degree that it became somewhat of a parody and I ended up finding all the lolevil experiments somewhat humorous rather than repulsive.

Actually if you read between the lines Cerberus isn't evil.

They sacrificed their humanity to beat the reapers and essentially became them.

*cough* indoctrination *cough*

Later in the story yes.

TIM made the decision in the first place to go down this path.

Or Bioware made him that way.

God it annoys me, he could of had so much potential!

I like what they did with him, and it isn't weak writing for trying to compare him to Saren.

[Naughty Bear]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

His goal is certainly noble.

His goal involves subjugating other species, so no, I wouldn't call that noble.

If your not dominating, your being dominated.

Humanity was being dominated in more than one way.

[Hunter of Legends]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

His goal is certainly noble.

His goal involves subjugating other species, so no, I wouldn't call that noble.

Where on earth did you hear this?

Not once did TIM discuss or decide to enslave the other species.

[Dyvim Slorm]

There's an old saying "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".

The irony of TIM is that he brings about the very things he's fighting against initially.

[Naughty Bear]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Bad King wrote...

He's morally ambiguous in ME2 as he is revealed to have committed both ruthless and kind acts, but in ME3, BioWare scrapped the 'let players decide for themselves' idea and decided to turn him into Dr. Evil. They constantly thrust how evil Cerberus is down our throats to the degree that it became somewhat of a parody and I ended up finding all the lolevil experiments somewhat humorous rather than repulsive.

Actually if you read between the lines Cerberus isn't evil.

They sacrificed their humanity to beat the reapers and essentially became them.

*cough* indoctrination *cough*

Later in the story yes.

TIM made the decision in the first place to go down this path.

Or Bioware made him that way.

God it annoys me, he could of had so much potential!

I like what they did with him, and it isn't weak writing for trying to compare him to Saren.

I would of preferred if he was not an ally nor an enemy. He may help in the game, or be agaisnt you but overall, he is not your enemy.

He would of made a great ally.

But then Bioware decided he goes down the super evil route.

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 28 mars 2012 - 07:44 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

Harshfact wrote...

but we all know he was indoctrinated since the moment he touched Ben and the Reaper artifact, the question is how much indoctrinated was he

Which is just silly. If he were indoctrinated then, then why the haiiiil did the reapers allow him to revive Shepard?

There are stages. Your not just instantely fully under the control of the Reapers. Whispers are a first sign.

Here is a small paragraph from the wikia:

"Rana Thanoptis, an asari neuroscientist on Virmire, goes into more detail. She describes indoctrination as a subtle whisper you can't ignore, that compels you to do things without knowing why. Over days, perhaps a week of exposure to Sovereign's signal, the subject stops thinking for themselves and just obeys, eventually becoming a mindless servant. That was the fate of Rana's predecessor, who became her first test subject, and the captured salarians who had once been Captain Kirrahe's men"

You need constant exposure. Which TIM succeeded in with literally placing a Reaper outside his door, after Mass Effect 2.

I know that. But if TIM was indoctrinated as early as Ben, then one must imagine that the reapers have been incubating his mind for quite some time. If he started to do something foolish like, say, reviving the human who thwarted their plans, SURELY the reapers would have the intelligence to either exert greater control over him or kill him themselves.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 28 mars 2012 - 07:44 .

[Hunter of Legends]

Naughty Bear wrote...


But then Bioware decided he goes down the super evil route.

Was he really that super evil?

I'd say Aria is more evil than TIM or Saren.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

His goal is certainly noble.

His goal involves subjugating other species, so no, I wouldn't call that noble.

Where on earth did you hear this?

Not once did TIM discuss or decide to enslave the other species.

Enslave, no. Dominate, yes.

[Hunter of Legends]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

His goal is certainly noble.

His goal involves subjugating other species, so no, I wouldn't call that noble.

Where on earth did you hear this?

Not once did TIM discuss or decide to enslave the other species.

Enslave, no. Dominate, yes.

Then he is nothing more than a human centralist.

There is nothing evil about that.