309 réponses à ce sujet

[minormiracle]

Edit: For those who claim the Reapers are not full synthetics, or synthetics but not AI, I've made a handy chart showing why the Starchild's claims still makes no sense.

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So I've seen a lot of great arguments against the poorly written ending, including the hilarious" yo dawg I heard you didn't wanna be killed by synthetics" meme, but going over the dialogue again I realized the starchild contradicted himself even earlier.

Starchild: I control the Reapers. They are my solution.
Shepard: Solution? To what?
Starchild: Chaos. The created will always rebel against their creators.

If the Starchild created a solution to a problem, and that solution was the Reapers, how come the Reapers haven't rebelled against the Starchild yet? They are without doubt the longest living civilization within the galaxy, yet they haven't turned against their creator.

The obvious counterargument is that the Starchild didn't create the Reapers. He found the "solution" to his problem only after the Reapers had already turned on whatever organic race created them. That still implies the most powerful rebellious synthetic race in the history of the galaxy can either be utterly controlled and put towards any purpose, or that the Reapers can only be "controlled" and used in a very limited manner.

If the Reapers can be used in any number of ways, then the Starchild has simply been misusing them this whole time by actively bringing about the termination of biological civilizations' development (the same end result as self induced synthetic rebellion) rather than intervening to preserve their potential for growth. We're still back to the yo dawg solution.

If the Reapers cannot be controlled to perform some subset of physically possible actions, such as preserving organic life without terminating the potential for growth, then the Starchild's own claim of controlling the Reapers is self invalidating. The "control" ending becomes unworkable.

If preserving organic life without terminating the potential for growth past a certain point is impossible regardless of what else the Reapers might have done, then the Starchild never found a solution to his problem. His earlier solution was never workable at any time in history.

In all cases, the Starchild's previous actions are either indefensible according to his own stated intentions (I failed to enact the optimal solution for preserving organic life), self invalidating in their premise (I never fully controlled the Reapers), or failed non solutions (organic civilizations are doomed regardless of what I do).

Modifié par minormiracle, 29 mars 2012 - 11:40 .

[Nighthunteer]

minormiracle wrote...
Starchild: I control the Reapers. They are my solution.
Shepard: Solution? To what?
Starchild: Chaos. The created will always rebel against their creators.

If
the Starchild created a solution to a problem, and that solution was
the Reapers, how come the Reapers haven't rebelled against the Starchild
yet?

Woah, didn't even cross my mind! That is a nice catch!

Modifié par Nighthunteer, 28 mars 2012 - 08:25 .

[dotcommissar]

this is right on.

[Asenkah]

Yeah I've been talking with some folks at work about this one for the past week. The entire sequence with the "starchild" is utter nonsense.

[The Angry One]

It gives me a migraine just thinking about it, how could they mess up this badly? What were they thinking?

[FemmeShep]

Get out of here with your logic and facts.

[dotcommissar]

They could've explained how starchild's control of the reapers is somehow different, but they probably ran out of time after perfectly balancing the marauder shields boss battle.

[Lookout1390]

I've come to the conclusion that everything past the laser beam shot, is just complete non-sense, and have quit trying to make sense of it ever since.

[Sesshomaru47]

Awww isn't he a little paradox that snotty little bleh.

[Cosmar]

Spot on, OP.

[FemmeShep]

The other issue I have with the Starchild being the creator for this solution, his entire purpose for making the solution, is the solution itself...

Sure it's a controlled version of it, and that's the point the writers wanted to make. But are you telling me the solution to a problem is the problem, but a controlled version? What kind of solution is that? Why not create another solution?

The fact that this is supposed to be the peak of evolution, the smartest thing in the entire galaxy, and THAT was their solution?

[zarnk567]

HEY WE ARE SUPPOSED TO SPECULATE NOT POINT OUT FACTS.

[erikage]

Easy. Space magic makes it work. Try again.

[hand-o_death547]

This is one of the reasons I believe the indoc. theory. Bioware couldn't have been writing this crap with no one saying anything.

[Funkcase]

Considering the starchild use's the term ''us'' when telling Shepard about control, and ''We already control him'' in regard to TIM, I consider it to be a Reaper, just different to the rest as it's their leader.

Modifié par Funkcase, 28 mars 2012 - 08:33 .

[Sesshomaru47]

If he is the creator of the solution who made him? He's not real, he's synthetic. So who made it?

[FemmeShep]

Funkcase wrote...

Considering the starchild use's the term ''us'' when telling Shepard about control, I consider it to be a Reaper, just different to the rest as it's their leader.

He says, I created the solution. 

I always took it as, the AI was apart of anohter race, and they made the reaper solution. The AI is just what runs their solution for them. Unless the AI is a deity. And i doubt anyone thinks the AI is anything but just an AI.

Modifié par FemmeShep, 28 mars 2012 - 08:34 .

[AlphaDormante]

Everything about that final sequence hurts my face. It's not intellectual or philosophical, it's embarrassing.

[The Angry One]

[Xandurpein]

The Starchild's reasoning is just faulty on so many levels, as is Shepard's surrender to his choices...

[uzivatel]

edit: cant read

Xandurpein wrote...

The Starchild's reasoning is just faulty on so many levels, as is Shepard's surrender to his choices...

What other option does Shepard have? 

Modifié par uzivatel, 28 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[tMc Tallgeese]

They have not rebelled because he is in essence a Reaper himself. As the catalyst, he acts as sort of a command and control unit that enables all commands set by him to be followed. Once the Crucible has been introduced to the catalyst, he is fundamentally changed in a way that allows another being to interact on a command level with the Reapers and the mass relay network. This in turn shows him that his solution is no longer viable because despite his best efforts, organics have found a loophole in his system of cyclical control by passing on the Crucible plans from one to the next through data caches.....or something like that. I think I'm just blowing smoke, but it's just a theory like everything else on this board.

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

Modifié par GME_ThorianCreeper, 28 mars 2012 - 08:36 .

[Texhnolyze101]

Star brat is stupid we know this already.

[OblivionDawn]

Haha, damn OP.

My palm went right to my face.

Kinda hard, I might add.