309 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggeh]

minormiracle wrote...
Any flawed logic can be argued as potentially logical with additional context.

That's a bit like saying algebra is nonsense because you don't know the value if n.

Even if n itself requires fuller explanation from the story perspective, that doesn't render the equation that contains it invalid.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 29 mars 2012 - 04:29 .

[Delta Sierra]

Thanks OP (and others in this thread) for helping me make some sense out of the trainwreck that is the ending. I have two other nagging questions, and I thought I'd throw them out there for discussion. Maybe someone else has thought of the answers.

One: Why does the Starbrat simply hand over the reins of the galaxy to Shepard? Some half dead organic wanders into his sanctum sanctorum, and he simply says "OK Shepard, you win. You're in charge now, here are the keys." Why doesn't he just blast Shep into his constituent quarks and go back to work?

Two: The Control option. Starbrat says Shep will be able to control the reapers, but he will die. How in Gods name can he control anything at all when he's DEAD?

My mind thanks you for any clarification on these matters.

Modifié par Delta Sierra, 29 mars 2012 - 01:42 .

[CroGamer002]

I'm still laughing how this Starchild is a total retard.

What the hell were Walters and Casey thinking?

[dfstone]

The first question that popped in my head was if the Reapers were created by Starkid to stop synthetics then who created the starkid?

[CroGamer002]

dfstone wrote...

The first question that popped in my head was if the Reapers were created by Starkid to stop synthetics then who created the starkid?

Wizard did it.

[zarnk567]

Mesina2 wrote...

dfstone wrote...

The first question that popped in my head was if the Reapers were created by Starkid to stop synthetics then who created the starkid?

Wizard did it.

[Sal86]

OP, your chart is made of win!

[shinobi602]

LOL this was actually the first thing that popped into my mind, and I'm glad someone made a thread about it. As soon as he said he controls them and they are his "solution", I thought...wait...and why haven't they rebelled against you yet?

[CroGamer002]

Arcian wrote...

OP, did you really need to make this entire thread just to say the ending logic was crap?

WE KNOW, man, we know.

But he made a pretty graph.

[frylock23]

hand-o_death547 wrote...

This is one of the reasons I believe the indoc. theory. Bioware couldn't have been writing this crap with no one saying anything.

Actually I can. BioWare is a limited group of people thinking inside an echo chamber. We're the player base and there are way more of us (tens of thousands v BioWare's tens to hundreds) and all of us are thinking more or less on our own.

It was inevitable that the players will uncover and ruthlessly point out any flaws that BioWare leaves. That being said, BioWare left in way too many for me to think that they vetted their endings thoroughly. They either did what they did way too quickly or in a massive fit of artistic hubris.

[survivor_686]

with the indoctrination theory in mind, starchild becomes an unreliable narrator. You really don't have a proper reason to to accept his ideas.

[WeatheredSoap]

zarnk567 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

dfstone wrote...

The first question that popped in my head was if the Reapers were created by Starkid to stop synthetics then who created the starkid?

Wizard did it.

Wasn't "starkid" a vi/ai (I don't remember which) created by an older species, one that apparently had a really bad run-in with synthetics?

[Ziggeh]

Delta Sierra wrote...One: Why does the Starbrat simply hand over the reins of the galaxy to Shepard? Some half dead organic wanders into his sanctum sanctorum, and he simply says "OK Shepard, you win. You're in charge now, here are the keys." Why doesn't he just blast Shep into his constituent quarks and go back to work?

He works on longer time scales than we do. An organic standing there, having come even slightly close to preventing the cycle proves that it contains the possibility of failure. From his perspective this makes his solution just another part of the equation. Eventually he will fail, eventually life will end. He sees little difference between this happening now or in a million years. He has to change something.

Quite why he doesn't spin the wheels for a bit while working out a better plan than sythesis (which stands a chance of success) or "screw it" (and how this differs from doing nothing from his perspective) is another matter. Maybe he just doesn't contain the capacity to independently generate a new solution and has to hope that the first person he meets understands.

Delta Sierra wrote...Two: The Control option. Starbrat says Shep will be able to control the reapers, but he will die. How in Gods name can he control anything at all when he's DEAD?

This is a bit of a stretch, but maybe you replace him? If you control the Reapers he has no function, so he is not longer required, and while the Citadel goes bang, he does say that it is a part of him rather than he lives there. Perhaps he is a part of a larger Reaper conciousness.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 29 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[SmokePants]

If you're going to take everything so literally and absolutely, then why didn't you notice that he never said he created the Reapers? He said he controls them and they are his solution. A lawn mower is a solution to tall grass and I control it -- doesn't mean I necessarily built it. The Reapers could very well have destroyed their creators before coming under control.

But even if he did create them, I think a lot of people are missing one very important detail about the cycles -- they repeat an uncanny pattern too similar to be coincidence. The Catalyst's statement may apply fully to that context and not to his relationship with the Reapers.

Modifié par SmokePants, 29 mars 2012 - 03:08 .

[Jvolikas]

The Angry One wrote...

It gives me a migraine just thinking about it, how could they mess up this badly? What were they thinking?

They were thinking "LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY!" makes a good conclusion to a trilogy.

[Banelash]

So if starbrat reaper was created by some organic, and the reapers killed those organics, and if going by starbrat reaper logic, the reapers would have killed ALL organics, not just the creator, as that is what they want to prevent. But they didn't kill all organic, and instead only harvest the advanced organic. Which means their own existence as reapers contradicted their theory that all synthetic will kill all organics!

[MarchWaltz]

The Angry One wrote...

It gives me a migraine just thinking about it, how could they mess up this badly? What were they thinking?

They weren't.

[pistolols]

minormiracle wrote...

If preserving organic life without terminating the potential for growth past a certain point is impossible regardless of what else the Reapers might have done, then the Starchild never found a solution to his problem. His earlier solution was never workable at any time in history.

Why?  i don't understand what you mean.  Why would the catalyst need to preserve the potential for growth?  That has never been the intention.  I thought the whole point was to control growth so that life does not evolve beyond it's reach, at which point it wouldn't be able to employ it's solution.

I suppose "why havn't the reapers rebelled against the catalyst?" is an interesting question, but i don't really consider it an important one.  So i'm not seeing the contradiction.  We don't even know what the catalyst is technically.  I never viewed it as being the reaper creator and i don't believe it is.

Modifié par pistolols, 29 mars 2012 - 03:33 .

[SmokePants]

Banelash wrote...

So if starbrat reaper was created by some organic, and the reapers killed those organics, and if going by starbrat reaper logic, the reapers would have killed ALL organics, not just the creator, as that is what they want to prevent. But they didn't kill all organic, and instead only harvest the advanced organic. Which means their own existence as reapers contradicted their theory that all synthetic will kill all organics!

It's not a theory, it's a pattern. The evidence is empirical. Like I said, a lot of you seem to have missed the part where you're in the war room and you're told that past cycles paralleled each other to a degree that was beyond coincidence. And if you listen to Javik and Garrus talk to each other in the lounge, it's clear that each conflict had an analog in his cycle.

The catalyst and the reapers exist outside the pattern, which means that anything they say about the created and the creators does not apply to them.

Modifié par SmokePants, 29 mars 2012 - 05:06 .

[ed87]

Everything that starchild said had been erased from my mind. It was 14 lines of garbage, and managed to make the bad boys like Sovereign and Harbinger look like little puppets in the end

[Fenrisfil]

Wouldn't it be funny if starchild was sent back in time from the future to try and find a way to stop the Reapers. Funny, because an ironic paradox is better then the ending.

[MaverickPerry]

I laughed.

[FOX216BC]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Star brat is stupid we know this already.

That's right, he's even stupid enough to give you the chance to destroy everything he's been working on the last milions of years. <_<

Modifié par FOX216BC, 30 mars 2012 - 11:31 .

[Mev186]

*Sigh* Yet another thing that needs to be fixed ... not Clarified...