205 réponses à ce sujet

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

That statement (and all of the ones like it) always irked me. It's like everyone pretends the geth fleet never existed.

It was like a massive, completely shocking blitzkreig that was spearheaded by a large tank to absorb the initial shots/distract.

From there on, it was the geth fleet, and the geth fleet ALONE, that fought the Citadel Fleet.

The Alliance Fleet then finished off the geth fleet (wait a second, wasn't the Citadel Fleet supposed to be massive and powerful? And wasn't that geth fleet only made up of frigates and some cruisers (maybe)? And weren't the Heretic geth only 5% of the geth population/forces? 

Whatever, moving on. So this already weakened Alliance fleet (with no dreadnaughts or carriers present either, and not that many cruisers either, now that I think about it) takes on Sovereign...and wins. Without losing more than a third of its forces (and it's implied that some of those losses were just from the geth).

So, um....where the heck is Hackett getting this idea from? And everyone else?

[Catroi]

We never needed the freaking Catalyst, just mass produce better Thanix Canons instead of concentrate all your ressources on a freaking machine that you don't even know what it makes

[Megachaz]

Yep. He keeps saying "We can't beat the Reapers conventionally." I don't really understand why that we be the case. Just stop acting like a nitwit and it wouldn't be that hard.

[Quietness]

Yea the whole Sovereign + Heretic Fleet only boiling down to Sovereign? And this was before the amazing jumps in tech that they have made..It all seems kinda funny logic.

Edited for Its the heretics not geth dumb on my part.

Modifié par Quietness, 28 mars 2012 - 09:25 .

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

The geth would never attack anyone; they're completely innocent. They're like Space Gandhis. You must be mistaken.

Modifié par Mr. Big Pimpin, 28 mars 2012 - 09:25 .

[Giguelingueling]

Geth should give you +10 000 ems, let's be honest they were able to complety destroy the largest fleet in the galaxy (Quarian) and they give you what 400 ? (I don't remember exactly). And at the same time the human fleet ( the smallest of the council race) can give you well over 1000 ems. 

[alberta]

That never happened - there were the usual number of ships on citadel duty - NOT the Turian fleet, not the human fleet, nor the Salarian fleet, nor the Geth fleet just a splinter group with Sovereign, and then in the fight it was only the (i think) the human Third fleet as Ken and Gabby were there.

[Texhnolyze101]

We could have fought every reaper in SOL conventionally and won but the problem is not all of the reapers where in SOL did you see the map before going back to earth? there where reapers all over the place so when we did crush the reapers in SOL the other ones would just come to SOL and crush us while we are severely weakened.

[dgumb]

Giguelingueling wrote...

Geth should give you +10 000 ems, let's be honest they were able to complety destroy the largest fleet in the galaxy (Quarian) and they give you what 400 ? (I don't remember exactly). And at the same time the human fleet ( the smallest of the council race) can give you well over 1000 ems. 

I think if you do everything right the Alliance fleet can give you about 1600-1800 and the Geth fleet can give you about 900 EMS rating.

[Rhz]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

We could have fought every reaper in SOL conventionally and won but the problem is not all of the reapers where in SOL did you see the map before going back to earth? there where reapers all over the place so when we did crush the reapers in SOL the other ones would just come to SOL and crush us while we are severely weakened.

yeah then we got them all in sol and then we blow up the sol relay, sacrafice the entire fleet including sol but saving the galaxie, could live with that

[DJBare]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

We could have fought every reaper in SOL conventionally and won but the problem is not all of the reapers where in SOL did you see the map before going back to earth? there where reapers all over the place so when we did crush the reapers in SOL the other ones would just come to SOL and crush us while we are severely weakened.

But I "think" this was the initial idea behind the catalyst, Shepard and squad fight their way to the control centre, on reaching it they deactivate not only the reaper defenses, but their comms as well, then Shepard and team keep fighting to keep hords away from the controls while the fleet finishes off the fleet in SOL, no word is sent to the other reapers because their comms are down, now they cannot coordinate, they will still be tough SOB's to take down but now we have the advantage.

Modifié par DJBare, 28 mars 2012 - 09:34 .

[The Angry One]

This has irked me. The Geth fleet is extremely powerful, they've made more dreadnaughts than the Turians due to being unbound by treaties.
Even if the heretics are a fraction of all Geth they still brought a powerful fleet against the Citadel.

Hell, the damage to the fleets in ME3 is directly based on saving the Destiny-Ascension or not, a fight that involved the Geth and the Geth alone (because Sovereign was already inside the Citadel).

[alberta]

DJBare wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

We could have fought every reaper in SOL conventionally and won but the problem is not all of the reapers where in SOL did you see the map before going back to earth? there where reapers all over the place so when we did crush the reapers in SOL the other ones would just come to SOL and crush us while we are severely weakened.

But I "think" this was the initial idea behind the catalyst, Shepard and squad fight their way to the control centre, on reaching it they deactivate not only the reaper defenses, but their comms as well, then Shepard and team keep fighting to keep hords away from the controls while the fleet finishes off the fleet in SOL, no word is sent to the other reapers because their comms are down, now they cannot coordinate, they will still be tough SOB's to take down but now we have the advantage.

Now THAT could work and would be one heck of a game to get the rest of the reapers around the galaxy. I like it!

[justafan]

Giguelingueling wrote...

Geth should give you +10 000 ems, let's be honest they were able to complety destroy the largest fleet in the galaxy (Quarian) and they give you what 400 ? (I don't remember exactly). And at the same time the human fleet ( the smallest of the council race) can give you well over 1000 ems. 

Well when I rewrote the herestics and when all was said and done (I made peace) the Geth gave me like 800 EMS.  That being said, we know the population of the heretics, but not the amount of resources they took with them.  The Orthodox geth weren't using all those cruisers except to kill intruders into geth territory, so a disproportionate amount might have been taken in the schism.

Also, the Quarian ships were glass cannons that relied on technology and strategy to win.  When Gerrel stupidly ordered them to attack, he nullified every advantage and put them in firing range so they were easy to destroy (I still think realistically the Quarians should have put up a better fight).  Considering the geth potentially give you more than Turians, it's a fair amount.

[Hepzi3]

This just made me think; The bulk of the Citadel Fleet was not at the Citadel. Also, Geth had the element of surprise (which the Reapers wont, after the first wave/Earth) In addition, its kinda really super pessimistic to believe 45-60% of the Reaper Fleet consists of Dreadnoughts, id imagine its MOSTLY destroyers, but with a fairly sizable number of Dreadnoughts,maybe 45-50......Course we wont ever know,will we?

[Zkyire]

SaltyWaffles-PD wrote...

That statement (and all of the ones like it) always irked me. It's like everyone pretends the geth fleet never existed.

It was like a massive, completely shocking blitzkreig that was spearheaded by a large tank to absorb the initial shots/distract.

From there on, it was the geth fleet, and the geth fleet ALONE, that fought the Citadel Fleet.

The Alliance Fleet then finished off the geth fleet (wait a second, wasn't the Citadel Fleet supposed to be massive and powerful? And wasn't that geth fleet only made up of frigates and some cruisers (maybe)? And weren't the Heretic geth only 5% of the geth population/forces? 

Whatever, moving on. So this already weakened Alliance fleet (with no dreadnaughts or carriers present either, and not that many cruisers either, now that I think about it) takes on Sovereign...and wins. Without losing more than a third of its forces (and it's implied that some of those losses were just from the geth).

So, um....where the heck is Hackett getting this idea from? And everyone else?

The Alliance only sent in the Fifth Fleet.

The War Assets codez bit says (on the 5th fleet):
"This fleet lost a third of its vessels protecting the Council during the Battle of the Citadel two years ago"


..which doesn't make sense.

The Fifth Fleet lost eight ships during the battle.

That means the Fifth Fleet only has 24 ships. Which is untrue,

Shows around 33+ Alliance ships in the Fifth Fleet.

Also if you look at the War Assets codex for the First and Third Fleets, it says the same thing "This fleet lost a third of its vessels protecting the Council during the Battle of the Citadel two years ago"- but the 1st and 3rd fleets did not take part in the battle. Only the 5th fleet.

So that just flat out does not make sense.

Also, by the start of ME1, the Alliance is supposed to have like 200 warships.

If the Geth forces that attacked the citadel only represent 5% (which they do) of total Geth forces, that means that there were only 33 Heretic ships, and another what, 627 non Heretic Geth ships? And if the Turians are considered to be the single biggest military force then they have even more than the Geth.

This raises a few points:

- In what possible way could the Alliance, with only 200 warships, be considered one of the dominant military powers?

- If the Geth are so much more advanced than the Alliance, how were the Alliance ships able to obliterate them, with ease?

 - Why does Hackett gloss over the fact that Sovereign brought 33 Geth frigates/cruisers with him during the attack on the Citadel?

 - Why does the War Assets thing say that three Alliance Fleets took part in the battle, when only one did?

- Why were the Reapers considered a major threat when the Alliance only lost EIGHT cruisers in the battle, despite the fact that those casualties came from fighting sovereign AND the Heretic fleet combined?

- Why did no Turian or Alliance ships use Thanix cannons in ME3 despite the fact that Thanix cannons are supposed to be widely used now?

All this "we can't beat them conventionally" was just to set up the Crucible.

Modifié par Zkyire, 28 mars 2012 - 10:01 .

[Baronesa]

Zkyire wrote...

All this "we can't beat them conventionally" was just to set up the Crucible.

Bingo Bingo Bingo on everything you said...

But I really want to highlight THIS part.

[Poison_Berrie]

Like Zkyire said, the War Assets get these things wrong as well. It suddenly adds a whole lot more fleets to the fight and they forget to mention how a lot of ships were occupied by the Geth fleet.

That said it still took a reasonably sized force to deal with Sovereign, so it's not like you'll breeze through the Reapers.

[brain_damage]

Zkyire, this was probably the most relevant stuff I've read in the forums. Thank you. Really. Now somebody send this to the devs.

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

Zkyire wrote...

SaltyWaffles-PD wrote...

That statement (and all of the ones like it) always irked me. It's like everyone pretends the geth fleet never existed.

It was like a massive, completely shocking blitzkreig that was spearheaded by a large tank to absorb the initial shots/distract.

From there on, it was the geth fleet, and the geth fleet ALONE, that fought the Citadel Fleet.

The Alliance Fleet then finished off the geth fleet (wait a second, wasn't the Citadel Fleet supposed to be massive and powerful? And wasn't that geth fleet only made up of frigates and some cruisers (maybe)? And weren't the Heretic geth only 5% of the geth population/forces? 

Whatever, moving on. So this already weakened Alliance fleet (with no dreadnaughts or carriers present either, and not that many cruisers either, now that I think about it) takes on Sovereign...and wins. Without losing more than a third of its forces (and it's implied that some of those losses were just from the geth).

So, um....where the heck is Hackett getting this idea from? And everyone else?

The Alliance only sent in the Fifth Fleet.

The War Assets codez bit says (on the 5th fleet):
"This fleet lost a third of its vessels protecting the Council during the Battle of the Citadel two years ago"


..which doesn't make sense.

The Fifth Fleet lost eight ships during the battle.

That means the Fifth Fleet only has 24 ships. Which is untrue,

Shows around 33+ Alliance ships in the Fifth Fleet.

Also if you look at the War Assets codex for the First and Third Fleets, it says the same thing "This fleet lost a third of its vessels protecting the Council during the Battle of the Citadel two years ago"- but the 1st and 3rd fleets did not take part in the battle. Only the 5th fleet.

So that just flat out does not make sense.

Also, by the start of ME1, the Alliance is supposed to have like 200 warships.

If the Geth forces that attacked the citadel only represent 5% (which they do) of total Geth forces, that means that there were only 33 Heretic ships, and another what, 627 non Heretic Geth ships? And if the Turians are considered to be the single biggest military force then they have even more than the Geth.

This raises a few points:

- In what possible way could the Alliance, with only 200 warships, be considered one of the dominant military powers?

- If the Geth are so much more advanced than the Alliance, how were the Alliance ships able to obliterate them, with ease?

 - Why does Hackett gloss over the fact that Sovereign brought 33 Geth frigates/cruisers with him during the attack on the Citadel?

 - Why does the War Assets thing say that three Alliance Fleets took part in the battle, when only one did?

- Why were the Reapers considered a major threat when the Alliance only lost EIGHT cruisers in the battle, despite the fact that those casualties came from fighting sovereign AND the Heretic fleet combined?

- Why did no Turian or Alliance ships use Thanix cannons in ME3 despite the fact that Thanix cannons are supposed to be widely used now?

All this "we can't beat them conventionally" was just to set up the Crucible.

Actually, I think the 200 ships number was from the start of the First Contact War--not ME1. By ME3, it's suggested that the Alliance's total fleet numbers are around 600 or more (considering that they built carriers instead of dreadnaughts for capital ships (until they became part of the Council and could thus build more)), it makes sense that they'd be a major military power.

Still, the geth fleet numbers should at least have been in the thousands.

[katamuro]

heretic geth were half of the whole geth. Plus their ships were quite numerous. And alliance has way more than 200 ships. Also if you forget geth ships upgraded with reaper code are much better at combat than normal geth. From what we can see in games there is no number assigned to how many ships there were in any fleets, but we know that humans had 6 dreadnoughts at me1 and turians 36(or something like that) if you include that some of the sapce have to be patrolled then only a certain portion of ships can be used for swift strikes like the fifth fleet led by Hackett.
Basically what I am trying to say is that the fleets are much bigger in numbers than we know, and its not stated anywhere how many of them exactly anyone has. For all we know a fleet is from several dozen cruiser/frigate combination to several hundred.

[Butcher_of_Torfan]

The Battle of the Citadel was the very worst possible conditions for the counsel and the alliance, and the very best possible conditions for the geth. The geth had the element of complete and total surprise, and were able to close to point blank range immediately.

At "Knife fight" range, main guns cant be brought to bear in time, lasers and point defense systems that cant be blocked by kinetic barriers are carving up hulls, and theres little if any time to shoot down or avoid torpedo volleys. Fighting at that range is a bloodbath for any involved, and the geth are almost perfectly suited for it.

Without a budget, economy, or even money to worry about, Geth ships are outfitted with expensive Ultraviolet lasers, which are devastating at close range. Their FTL communicating hive mind lets them coordinate instantly; moving, flanking and swarming as a single entity, and focus firing to a degree that cant be matched by VI assisted organic crews. They dont have to worry about hull breeches or explosive decompression like organics, and they dont have to worry about heat build up from continuous firing that would cook organic crews alive.

Soveriegn didnt cause all those the alliance casualties, charging into the middle of that nightmare of a meatgrinder to save the DA did.

Even though he's big and extremely powerful, sovereign didnt contribute all that much to the battle. He rammed a ship or two on the way in, maybe blasted a few more, but overall, the battle would have played out the same even if he wasn't there.

Modifié par Butcher_of_Torfan, 28 mars 2012 - 10:36 .

[count_4]

Yeah, it's ridiculous. A single Thanix missle brought down a Reaper destroyer. Mass-produce the hell out of them and we're good to go.

[sorentoft]

Because space magic.

[Haasth]

Guys. Guys. Relax.You're all missing the main point.
Space Magic.