205 réponses à ce sujet

[Clumsy Astronaut]

I don't know if my intellectual sparring partner Fdmatt is awake, but regardless I need my sleep. I wish all a good night .

[Clumsy Astronaut]

My point about the masses of reapers at the end of Mass Effect 2 still stands. Even assuming the benefits of massing rapid figure ships like cruisers and fighters the reapers still have sufficient numbers to make a conventional defeat impossible. Maybe they could retake Earth at something like 90% losses, but then the reapers would just divert from other systems to crush the leftovers.

[Clumsy Astronaut]

Btw come 12:00 I WILL go to sleep. Please hold me to this promise.

[Virmire Vermin]

The Geth fleet only exists in your feeble minds, fools.

Hackett out.

[Kanner]

This is consistant with the idea that certain writers did not actually play ME1 ever.

[Fdmatt]

You're right, we definitely would take heavy losses but then again I maintain that the majority of Reapers are either already on Earth, or moved there with the travel of the citadel. As someone pointed out, deploying only 1 destroyer to Tuchanka and Rannoch suggests they are far more thinned out than they would like. Heck they didn't even spare a destroyer to watch the Rachni queen. A fact which would seem to be corroborated by the fact that their usual strategy is to start at the Citadel and take it system by system, shutting off the Relays and pummeling each system one at a time with overwhelming force. They're not used to fighting a multi-front war.

Either way I think the odds turned out bleaker than we were led to believe in the first two games. Like the point I made about the Rachni fleet from the envoy on Illium. We never saw that fleet, likely because Bioware decided to reduce conventional war assets in favor of a Macguffin.

[piemanz]

I think it's fairly well established through all 3 games that the Reapers have overwhelming superiority in numbers.

[Fdmatt]

Again, if you can find something to corroborate Reaper numbers I'd love to see it. I only remember a quote of thousands. Which would seem to be backed in game.

[Clumsy Astronaut]

It states that Reaper forces on Tuchanka were very ligh as to not incite the Krogan, and the only reason that the reapers had a destroyer on Rannoch was to control the Geth. I would also counter that their ability to completely devestate every council member's homeworld except the salarian's shows a pretty complete grasp of multi front warefare. Also, one of the main problems with multi front wars it the logistics, to which reapers are immune. They don't need fuel, the use our own people as their soldiers.
You also never have rebutted my point about reaper numbers at the end of ME2

But I do agree that the ending was pretty hammy, but the fact that we really had no concrete way to beat them even at the end of ME2 made me believe that some plot device was innevitable.

[Elyiia]

If the Reapers had the numbers that you are suggesting they do, every planet would be like Thessia.

[Clumsy Astronaut]

Look at the end screen of ME2, quite a large number of just capitol ships, no pic I can link tho

[Clumsy Astronaut]

@ Elyiia By the end they pretty much were. If you look at the galaxy map it is ALL reaper controlled

[Clumsy Astronaut]

Well I actually am going to sleep now, good night.

[Clumsy Astronaut]

Twas fun arguing.

[alberta]

Clumsy Astronaut wrote...

Twas fun arguing.

Hey, its only 10:00 Mountain Time.

[Fdmatt]

I'll be turning in as well.

Resume tommorow?:happy:

[GennadiosMxms]

The conquered sectors of space seem to have 3-4 reapers patrolling 2-5 solar systems. Even Thessia and the Turian homeworld didn't have the number of reapers Sol had.

Break the back of the Reaper fleet on Sol, and the only way they could consolidate into such numbers again is by abandoning whole sectors. Seems fairly doable without the macguffin.

[TudorWolf]

Reapers have numerical superiority, can infer that from the info on the derelict from ME2.

They've been doing this for at least 37 million years. If you have one capital ship every cycle, that's 740 capital ships (max 737 since we know at least 3 have been killed), plus even more destroyers on top of that.

I'd say conventional victory is out the window. They could make a dent, sure, but the reapers will win out in the end by all likelihood

Modifié par TudorWolf, 29 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[Ticonderoga117]

I call shenanigans. Thanix (sp?) cannons carved the Collector ship (Probably close in approximation to Reaper tech) in two shots. 2. Now, I remember there being a Volus ship just brimming with these things! So, stick at least one on EVERY ship and bam! Insta-Reaper pain. Now, I will buy that a one on one engagement is a bad idea. However, this is where we non-Reaper/crazy people faction get clever. Hit'em in small groups, divide and conquer when you can. With Hackett and Victus in command, I figured this would've made some sense. Especially if the Crucible/Catalyst would've acted like a neutralizer to knock the squids down a level or two in survivability. But nope, three flavors of one ending for us.

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

BigM3atL3gacy wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

BigM3atL3gacy wrote...

Fdmatt wrote...

Previous lore as in what?

The Protheans gave them centuries of war and they lost the Citadel from the get-go per the cycle.

Shepard stopped the Citadel invasion, bought the galaxy 4 years to reverse engineer their technology, and blew up the Alpha Relay to stop them from spreading so quickly. He also gathered the largest and most diversely skilled military force ever assembled.

The Protheans were more widespread and technologically advanced than any species in the current cycle, and knew about the Reapers prior to their invasion as well. But, nothing is known about how powerful the Prothean military was, or of its capabilities, so they would be an unfair comparison.
 

Where the hell did you hear that? Nothing I've seen throughout the games indicates that the protheans knew about the invasion.

They knew about the Reapers, through studying previous species. Not that they knew that an invasion was coming or anything.

...no, they didn't. Just like this cycle didn't (well, until the events of ME1). Vigil made it clear that the Reaper invasion took the Prothean Empire completely by surprise. Javik backs this up when he says of the Reaper invasion: "when the Reapers came, we realized the synthetics had surpassed us long ago, in ways we could not imagine." That DOESN'T sound like they knew all about the Reapers beforehand.

And would a militaristic empire that values strength and dominance really ignore the Reaper threat, knowledge of an iminent invasion or no?

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

TudorWolf wrote...

Reapers have numerical superiority, can infer that from the info on the derelict from ME2.

They've been doing this for at least 37 million years. If you have one capital ship every cycle, that's 740 capital ships (max 737 since we know at least 3 have been killed), plus even more destroyers on top of that.

I'd say conventional victory is out the window. They could make a dent, sure, but the reapers will win out in the end by all likelihood

How many times do I have to say this?

You really think the Reapers don't take a single casualty each cycle? It's almost guaranteed that they lose a capital class Reaper and a dozen destroyer class Reapers per cycle. If four dreadnaughts (our dreadnaughts; imagine a Prothean one) could take down a capital class Reaper and one of our cruisers can take down a destroyer class Reaper, then it's just plain guaranteed.

[Clumsy Astronaut]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

I call shenanigans. Thanix (sp?) cannons carved the Collector ship (Probably close in approximation to Reaper tech) in two shots. 2. Now, I remember there being a Volus ship just brimming with these things! So, stick at least one on EVERY ship and bam! Insta-Reaper pain. Now, I will buy that a one on one engagement is a bad idea. However, this is where we non-Reaper/crazy people faction get clever. Hit'em in small groups, divide and conquer when you can. With Hackett and Victus in command, I figured this would've made some sense. Especially if the Crucible/Catalyst would've acted like a neutralizer to knock the squids down a level or two in survivability. But nope, three flavors of one ending for us.

The collector ship had no shields and poor armour, even with relatively modest predictions about reaper strength it would be like comparing a Cruiser to an Athabasca freighter. The Collector ship obviously wasn't designed for full on engagements.

[Clumsy Astronaut]

And we do not know the comparative cost of Thanix technology. The only reason the Normandy had it may be because of Cerberus's almost bottomless funding, leading me to believe that only a small portion of the fleet could be so well equipped. Also the fact that the only way to beat a reaper is to overload it's shields means that smaller engagements would favor reapers. Also considering the reapers have at least a thousand-ish capitle ships and prObably around 11 times that in destroyers (inferring from the fact that the codex says destroyers are probably races deemed unworthy of a capitol ship, with 11 non-Human races in the series [12 with Vorcha] it seems like a nice number)

[Clumsy Astronaut]

Double Post Error

Modifié par Clumsy Astronaut, 29 mars 2012 - 09:32 .

[Clumsy Astronaut]

It was also stated that the reapers are weaker when landed. In the final battle it is logical to assume that they pull a significant amount if not all the reapers on the ground, especially once the fighting starts. By the time the fleets start to engage the reapers would already be redistributing reapers to deal with the fleet.